Kiev 4 Rangefinder Camera - Not Quite What I Expected!!!

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In this video we'll take a look at my 1975 Kiev 4 rangefinder camera. The Kiev was a copy of the German Zeiss Contax camera produced in Kiev, Ukraine. The Kiev cameras are lovely things to look at, and according to many people are higher quality than other Soviet made rangefinders such as the Zorki and FED cameras, but the 3 Zorki's that I have in my collection appear to be better built than my Kiev 4.
Although it might seem like I'm not happy with my Kiev 4, I think I probably just had over inflated expectations having seen many people sing it's praises, and it just didn't quite live up to the hype, but having filmed this video I'm all eager to try it again - I've quadruple checked for light leaks, tweaked the rangefinder yet again and will hopefully head out with it again soon, at least as soon as I've finished some of the 15 or so films that I currently have in other vintage cameras.
Film used: Ilford FP4 shot at box speed (125 ISO)
You can see the follow up video where I investigate the light leaks here:
• Kiev 4 Rangefinder Cam...
Here are some links to previous videos that I mentioned in this video:
Industar 61 Lens Test • The Bright Lights of D...
Jupiter 8M Lens Test • Jupiter 8M 50mm f2 - V...
Start 00:00
Contax/Kiev History 00:46
Lenses & Focusing 01:30
Controls 04:48
Viewfinder 08:42
Gallery 1 10:19
Problems 11:31
Gallery 2 13:37
Summary 14:33
Outro 15:13
If you've enjoyed this video and you'd like to help support the channel, you can make a one off, no obligation donation, using the PayPal link below:
www.paypal.com/paypalme/Grump...
Outro Music
"As Yet Untitled"
by GrumpyTim (available to download from GrumpyTim's Bandcamp page)
grumpytim.bandcamp.com/
Additional Music
"Where Was I Going"
by GrumpyTim (available to download from GrumpyTim's Bandcamp page)
grumpytim.bandcamp.com/
www.grumpytim.com

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Опубликовано:

21 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 68

@alexcarrillo5510 19 дней назад

Tim I started with my Dad's Contax in high school but I wanted to have my own, so I got the Kiev 4 RF in BLACK, as been using it as I use it in Japan, and the Philippines. When using in Japan that I had a person came up to me, and as he said it in his broken English - NIKON - NIKON!, and told him no it is a Kiev, and he asked me if I could hold it, as he love it. Since then that I got the 35mm, wide angle, and then the 90mm both Jupiters as they were very sharp. But I wanted something that I want to honor my Dad's Contax I search for a Zeiss Contax II, and III as found them, as they say CONTAX but still have the Kiev, and have use the lenses from Kiev on my Digital models, as was blown away with the colors, and contrast. Love these models, and still have them...

@GrumpyTim 18 дней назад

Hi Alex, I've really enjoyed using the Jupiter lenses on a digital body in the past, they seem to perform very well when attached to a digital body. The second film I put through the Kiev worked much better due to it being a slightly faster film and not shooting in the middle of winter - that allowed me to stop down a bit more and the results were much sharper. The only issue still to resolve is a little bit of a light leak that still remains, other than that I'm pretty happy with my Kiev.

@GaltarDude1138 9 дней назад

The visual of a toy truck taking Contax from Germany to Ukraine is quite funny, would never have thought to use it 😂

@GrumpyTim 8 дней назад

Oh yes, only the finest special effects on this channel!!! Cheers for watching Amerajank

@jamessalomon9343 3 месяца назад

I enjoyed your video. I suggest you use black vinyl / electrical tape along the sides and bottom of the camera back to solve your light leak problem. When I was shooting film I had some problems with light leaks and black tape worked every time.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Cheers James, I had considered the electrical tape solution, although where possible I like to try to fix whatever the issue is on the camera itself. I've added some more sealing foam to the back since I got that film processed, but I know that light leaks from the rangefinder window are very possible on the Kiev, so that's still a possibility. I might set up a better testing solution to check for those before the next roll goes into the camera.

@ohjajohh 3 месяца назад

That was a very well made video! I have bit of a love/hate relationship with these vintage Soviet rangefinders. I've bought a few of those camera's (mainly for the lenses) but always ended up selling them again as they weren't really my cup of tea.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Cheers ohjajohh, I do love the quirkiness of them, and if I hadn't set my expectations so high for the Kiev I'd probably have got on better with it, although it wouldn't change the fact that some of the build quality isn't that great. I will bung another film in it soon and give it another try because I really do want to like it!!!

@maf421 3 месяца назад

As an owner of a Kievtax camera, I have to say this is the best over view I've ssen of the good, the bad and the how to use of this camera.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Cheers Mark, having done the video I really want to pop another film in the Kievtax (great name) and try it again. I think I need to use it more to fully bond with it!!!

@tonygarrett7214 3 месяца назад

Excellent video. I like your style and pace of presentation. I used to own the same model of camera. I think it was referred to as the “4A”. I bought mine new in 1975 and it was on this camera that I learned the basics of photography. Also owned a Zorki 4K too. You needed to think what you were doing when using these rugged Russian machines!

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Hi Tony, yeah, I think you learn a lot more when you do photography the hard way, not that digital doesn't have it's plus points, but having a grounding in film photography is definitely a good place to start from.

@aka-k6181 2 месяца назад

Thank you for the review, just got this camera from my grandma, u helped me understand wvery single little thing about it! Even tho it is not the best, its my first vintage camera and i will use it with the tips u gave :)

@GrumpyTim 2 месяца назад

That's great AKA-K, you should have a lot of fun with that.

@julianzepeda9664 3 месяца назад

Excellent run down of the Kiev 4, maybe the best yet. Very thorough without unnecessary fluff. I own two Kievs (4 & 4A) and agree with pretty much everything you said. I subscribed.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Thanks Julian, that's really kind. The Kiev is definitely a strange camera, many people seem to love them, and I do kind of love mine, it just isn't quite as good as I'd been led to believe. Hopefully if I stick at it, I'll sort any little niggles with my copy and then I'll really enjoy shooting with it.

@julianzepeda9664 3 месяца назад

@@GrumpyTim Thanks for the reply, Tim. Yes, there's no way Kievs can be considered as easy to get along with as Japanese and German cameras. They are just not as well put together. I also own a Contax II from 1937 on which the Kievs are based. They look identical, but the fit, finish and quality control on the Contax is superior. However, once the bugs on the Kiev are ironed out, they can be fun. Film cameras in general make you take your time when shooting.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Thanks Julian, I had a hunch that the mighty Contax would be better, I'd just never got my hands on one. I'm loving shooting film again - like many people I drifted into digital only, for probably about 18 years or so, then I got interested in using vintage lenses on mirrorless cameras, which in turn led me to buy some film cameras purely to borrow the lens, or at least that was the plan - the cameras I got seemed so nice to hold and operate that it was only a matter of time before I started shooting film again and wondering why I ever stopped in the first place.

@zjohn6879 3 месяца назад

Loved the rundown and photos taken from it, especially that one of the Lamborghini! You can one up the "pics or didn't happen" with pulling out the negative!

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Cheers Zed John, I sometimes (often) forget to show the negatives on my videos, although on some occasions this is because I haven't got them back from the lab yet, but in this case I did have the negs, I just didn't think to show them.

@Offshorekite Месяц назад

Hi Tim - the 1970s Kievs are renowned for having a not so great build quality my 1975 Kiev 4 had massive light leak issues from the rangefinder baffle.... I loved the Jupiter 12 it came with - sold the lot for parts on Ebay and instantly regretted selling the lens... I have just bought a 1978 without the meter... easier to work on and it has a 30 day money back so next week I'll be putting a film through it when it arrives... It has the Jupiter 8 - however I've just bought a near mint Jupiter 12 again... If it doesn't satiate my need I might have to find another rangefinder!

@GrumpyTim Месяц назад

Hi David, hopefully I'm making some progress with the Kiev - I've just taken the third roll of film into the lab so I'll see if I've managed to cure the light leaks now. I was happier with the second roll of film (apart from light leaks) - slightly faster film and more daylight meant that I could stop the Jupiter 8M down a bit, which produced much more satisfying results. I was fixing a rather battered old Fed 4 last week - everything just fitted together better than the Kiev and it was much nicer to work on, but I still like the Kiev, so I'll keep on using it and attending to any issues as they arise.

@liveinaweorg 3 месяца назад

Sadly my Kiev 3A isn't working (shutter issues) but I do have the original Contax II so get to play with this style of rangefinder. Really enjoyed this video and you got some good shots from it despite the issues. Cheers!

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Pity your Kiev 3A isn't working Morris, but I guess having a genuine Contex is quite a good alternative. I could do with getting a right wreck of a Kiev to completely strip down and learn from - I only did what was necessary on my copy because there's always room for something to go wrong when stripping a camera, and I didn't want any disasters.

@kawarps Месяц назад

I own a fed 4l. The cheese grater soviet leica range finder. Along with the Zorki and kiev I would consider them acquired tastes. If you are prepared to work within the operating regimen than they are capable cameras. However it’s worth pointing out you are dealing with at best 40 year old cameras using pre war technology. Good luck and I hope to see the results of your second film roll and possibly a video on the lubitel 2/166b.

@GrumpyTim Месяц назад

Hi Bob, I actually like the Kiev more than you might think from my video, it just wasn't quite as brilliant as some people seem to say. I love my Zorkis and I've just got a Fed 4, which was in a pretty sorry state when I got it, but it's now got film in and I'm loving using it. Compared to the Kiev, the Fed is a joy to work on, and everything fits, unlike the Kiev. The second roll was already in the Kiev when I got the first roll processed so I wasn't able to address the light leak for film 2, but, light leak aside, I was much happier with roll 2 - I'd pushed the film one stop, plus it was shot in spring rather than winter, so there was more daylight anyway - that allowed me to stop down a bit more and the results are great. The third film is now at the lab, so I'll see if I've managed to cure the light leak, or if it's going to be back on the workbench for more attention.

@sclogse1 2 месяца назад

The info on the lining up of the two red dots on the shutter button may be the answer to my problems...I'll wait till daylight. This was extremely thorough. It does appear that when these do break down, it's like trying to fix a grandfather clock. I heard the common mistake was to fire the shutter without winding first, which can jam things up. Correct me if I have this wrong.

@GrumpyTim 2 месяца назад

Hi sclogse1, I think a Grandfather clock is easier to work on than many old cameras - at least to a certain extent anyway, it gets a bit more tricky when they need to be re bushed (which is most of the time), because you either need the right equipment (expensive) or to be a bit creative - I have a couple of clocks waiting to be re bushed when I get round to it.......oops, I drifted off topic a bit there. I only stripped enough of my Kiev to get it working correctly, so I've observed the release mechanism for the lead curtain but not the one that releases the rear curtain - I can't particularly see any reason why the camera would jam if you press the shutter button without winding the camera first - it certainly wouldn't have any effect on the front curtain, and I doubt there would be any parts "latched" that pressing the button would then release. For what it's worth, I've just tried pressing the shutter button without the camera being wound on, at all speeds, and nothing bad happened. I wouldn't say definitively that it couldn't be a problem because I haven't stripped and observed that part of the mechanism, and it's also possible that there were design changes over time that removed a previous potential fault - a bit like the Olympus OM-1 - I've heard that the early versions can jam if you change the shutter speed before advancing the film, and that issue was sorted by the time you got to the OM-1N - again I haven't experienced that fault for myself, so I'm only taking other peoples word for it.

@ka4estvo 3 месяца назад

Realy thinking about getting a zorkiy, plenty of them around for cheap and in great condition. Kievs always looked a bit too bulky and unwieldy to me.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Yeah, I think the Zorki is definitely the one to go for first, they're cheaper and easy to get hold of. Then, if you love the Zorki, you can always get a Kiev later on if you feel the need. The Zorki still has it's quirks, but they're great fun to use.

@grahvis 2 месяца назад

The Kiev without the exposure meter looks a lot less bulky.

@BensWorkshop 3 месяца назад

Curious camera. Shame it is a bit disappointing. I think I might have a Yashica range finder somewhere.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

I really like rangefinder cameras Ben, although SLRs are still my default camera to use, but the rangefinders have a certain cuteness about them. I think my problem with the Kiev was in the high expectations I'd built up having heard so many people harp on about how good it is. If I'd have approached it with no expectations at all I think we'd have got on a lot better. The fit of the back and a few other chassis components was so poor, and the latching mechanism for the shutter seems a bit ridiculous, that it put me off before I even did much work on it, however, the basic design comes from the 1930s, so possibly I'm being a bit unfair in my judgement. Having filmed the video I'm now wanting to use it again to see if I can enjoy it a bit more second time round.

@BensWorkshop 3 месяца назад

@@GrumpyTim Fair enough. Let us know how you get on.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Will do.

@SergeyGalin 3 месяца назад

Yashica Electro series are wonderful, if you can live with one fixed lens and batteries.

@BensWorkshop 3 месяца назад

@@SergeyGalin Cheers. I have a Yashica Mat 124G, so I can.

@a.b.c.d.e 3 месяца назад

bAsICaLLy x100VI

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Kind of similar.

@lxhk3595 3 месяца назад

Did you say what film you used? I love the b&w

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Hi Lx-hk, it was Ilford FP4, just shot at box speed, so fairly predictable and easy to compare with results from other cameras and lenses.

@Being_Joe Месяц назад

I like how yall funny speaking English call a flashlight a torch. Makes me laugh every time. Murica!

@GrumpyTim Месяц назад

Hi Jose, I think even English people laugh at how I speak, so I must sound really weird to anyone from overseas!!!

@a4grtu 3 месяца назад

Nice video, but what is up with Ukraine's map :D

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Ah, maybe map drawing isn't one of my strongest subjects!!!!!

@philmartin5689 3 месяца назад

Nice to see an objective review of this camera, there are so many uncritical reviews of this and other soviet cameras on vintage camera sites.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Cheers Phil, I nearly didn't finish making this video because I thought I was being too negative and critical!!!

@philmartin5689 3 месяца назад

@@GrumpyTimsome people even wax lyrical about the lubitel, the worst camera I've ever used. If you include China as part of the Soviet Bloc, there is one camera I did love using and that was the Seagull TLR, 4A I think? It was my introduction to medium format and such an upgrade from 35mm. It was a dream at multi exposure, so I could strap it to a tripod, so that solid structures would remain fixed whilst trees and vegetation could flicker around it. A technique lifted from John Blakemore.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

I had wondered what the Lubitel was like - maybe I'll give one of those a miss. I did pick up a Yashica 635 a few months ago, and after fixing it, I put a film through it - I'm amazed by just how good quality it is - I'd technically shot medium format when I was a kid, but possibly the advantage of the large negative is lost by the lens on a Box Brownie, not to mention that I wouldn't have had a clue what I was doing at that time.

@philmartin5689 3 месяца назад

@@GrumpyTim I discovered medium format quite early on in my photographic journey. The Seagull cost me around £22 when my Pentax ME super cost around £125 but the difference in negative quality was astounding. I was using the darkrooms in a community art centre at the time and found the medium format negatives to be so much easier to print. I was instantly hooked.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

I had always said "I don't need medium format", but now I've tried it I think it's only a matter of time before I get a Mamiya 645/Bronica or whatever - I should have got one a few years ago because the prices seem to be creeping up. I picked up a Pentax ME Super the other week - it's in lovely condition apart from the seemingly common problem with the sticking mirror lever - I've tried the easy fix but it's not 100% fixed and still doesn't cock the shutter/mirror properly all the time, so that one is going to be a pretty big strip down. I will do it though, because I've got plenty of PK fit lenses to use on it and it's such a nice camera.

@DavidNunezPNW 3 месяца назад

I love my Kiev 4

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

I do like mine too David, I just didn't find it quite as amazing as I expected, but I'm sure once I've sorted out a few problems I'll enjoy using it a bit more.

@palesmichael 2 месяца назад

Try a helios 103 instead of the jupiter 8. Is much much cheaper and should be considerable sharper.

@GrumpyTim Месяц назад

Cheers Michal, someone else had also suggested a few alternative lenses including the Helios 103 - I'll keep my eyes peeled for something else, although I've enjoyed the Jupiter 8M more on the second roll of film - slightly faster film and more daylight allowed me to stop down a bit more, and the 8M performed much better like that. There seem to be loads of late model Helios 103 lenses on ebay at the moment, but no idea how good those are compared to earlier versions.

@SergeyGalin 3 месяца назад

Kiev was higher regarded than FED and Zorki in USSR mainly because of its metal shutter: more resource, higher fastest speed, less prone to burning holes in the sun and most importantly: it does not freeze in Russian winter as fast as cloth shutter does. Another advantages are wider rangefinder base and faster lens changing due to use of the bayonets instead of M39 thread. Also Kievs had built-un exposure meter while earlier FED's and Zorkis didn't. On the downside, Kiev is over-engineered and harder to repair. I wonder why they never ditched the inner bayonet and the wheel focusing, for instance - that would make the camera cheaper, simpler and lighter. You're lucky to find a camera with working light meter, on my cameras it is dead completely. Regarding lenses, I would advise to look for: Jupiter-3 , Jupiter-9, Jupiter-12, Helios-103. I think Kiev lenses are much (like twice) cheaper than M39 counterparts because they are harder to adapt to digital. That's one more reason to try Kiev nowadays.

@GrumpyTim 3 месяца назад

Awesome, cheers for that Sergey, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for some additional lenses, as you say, the Kiev versions tend to be cheaper due to the difficulty in adapting them to fit digital cameras. I hadn't thought about the cold weather performance, probably because we don't really do cold weather in the UK, so it didn't cross my mind.

@aka-k6181 2 месяца назад

I got this exact camera but, im guessing, a newer model since mine is in mint, i acquired it from my best friend's grandma, and she said she never used it, i cleaned the dust and everything works, even the exposure meter. A great find for my first CCCP camera💪

@venomanceqt Месяц назад

@@GrumpyTim you should definitely try KIEV-19 camera. It has bayonet F, the same that Nikon cameras have! 😊

@GrumpyTim 29 дней назад

Cheers Andrew, I hadn't heard about the Kiev 19 - I've got plenty of lenses that would fit one of those, so A Kiev 19 is going on the future shopping list.

@venomanceqt 29 дней назад

@@GrumpyTim in fact, there are 3 models of Kiev cameras that have bayonet F - 17, 19 and 20. Model 20 is overengineered and too complex to repair if something goes wrong, model 17 is entry-level camera and just boring, but model 19 is the golden mean. I've got one for a modest price. Adding to that, the kit lens (Helios-81H / Гелиос-81Н) has one of the nicest bokehs. I really hope that you will be able to purchase this camera in good condition for your collection and future videos!

@Snimaju_Shljapu 2 месяца назад

In my opinion best Kiev was produced until the end of 1960, I have three of them, 1956, 1968 and 1975, and the best quality is my favourite Kiev 2a 1956. The worst quality is 1975… And I think this selenium light meter is unnecessary) Better find a Kiev that was produced in 50-60)

@GrumpyTim 2 месяца назад

Hi NilAdmirari, yeah, that would make sense that the early copies were better, the dies for making the chassis and so on were probably a bit worn out by the time mine was produced, and clearly they hadn't repaired/replaced the dies because the fit of some bits is terrible. I'll probably grab an earlier copy one day, or maybe even a genuine Contex!!! Love the shot of the GTO on your home page by the way.

@Snimaju_Shljapu 2 месяца назад

@@GrumpyTim Thx, This GTO I photographed with Moskva 5 6x9.

@GrumpyTim 2 месяца назад

Now that's a proper camera, great stuff.