King Crimson, Gurdjieff and the Esoteric

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Andy is a drummer, producer and educator. He has toured the world with rock legend Robert Plant and played on classic prog albums by Frost and IQ.
As a drum clinician he has played with Terry Bozzio, Kenny Aronoff, Thomas Lang, Marco Minneman and Mike Portnoy.
He also teaches drums privately and at Kidderminster College

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9 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 103

@nilton61 Год назад

You cannot achieve the aim without suffering. This phrase has had a tremendous influence on me and it comes back all the time. But never in a bad way. If you wanna be stronger you need get sore muscles. if you want to get better at playing guitar you need to not only practice but also question your aims and methods. The older i get the more truth is that statement.

@henrycrinkle821 5 месяцев назад

Fascinating stuff. Thank you.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 5 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it

@kevincorrigan7893 Год назад

This shines a light on some aspects of King Crimson that I'd already wondered about. I sensed there was some mysticism underlying King Crimson's output especially in the period you're talking about, but I hadn't realized it was rooted in Gurdjieff. Peter Murphy, former lead singer of Bauhaus, also references Gurdjieff and Bennett in his second solo album, Love Hysteria. Cheers. Great vid. Do more on King Crimson!

@AlmostEthical Год назад

I learnt about Gurdjieff from Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous. The more I learn about people online, the less unique I feel haha. Back in the day, I was the only person I knew who'd even heard of King Crimson. Fripp saw the LTIA band as two balancing sides with him as the fulcrum - the pros, Bruford and Wetton balanced by the rock newcomers, Cross and Muir. In hindsight, Fripp and Jamie Muir's esoteric leanings were balanced by the very grounded Bruford and Wetton, with David Cross often just trying to be heard over the mayhem.

@wylieroth3145 Год назад

Gurdjieff, "Meetings with Remarkable Men." A jolly good read...

@AndyEdwardsDrummer Год назад

Unlike Beelzebub...which is perhaps the most difficult read ever created....

@jasonshort1437 Год назад

Great video. I've always found Fripp's involvement with Sherbourne house fascinating. That Jarrett record is great, I play it on Good Friday and Christmas Eve.

@Emlizardo Год назад

It seems many of us who delve into Gurdjieff's teachings also move on at some point. Not renouncing per se, but eventually just putting down the books and continuing on our way. Keith Jarrett says he eventually dropped his active involvement with G's teachings. Fripp mentioned Gurdjieff often in the 80s, but later told interviewers "I know nothing of Gurdjieff. I only speak for Guitar Craft." Again, he took what he needed and moved on. And your own story seems to follow a similar trajectory. As an alum of Fripp's Guitar Craft and Guitar Circle Courses - I've performed with Fripp in the Orchestra of Crafty Guitarists - I also took what I needed from that and moved on.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer Год назад

Great observation

@armandom28 2 года назад

Excellent….loved this. As a former occult scholar I found this very interesting.

@frankfedde5149 Год назад

Interesting! Thanks for revealing that angle to King Crimson!

@kimstrickland65 Год назад

Interesting that you mentioned that Gurdjieff's influence on musicians besides Robert Fripp. Another example was early Soft Machine. J.G. Bennett was involved in sponsoring Soft Machine's first public concert, and Gurdjieffian philosophy had an influence on some of the early Soft Machine songs, especially the Kevin Ayers song, 'Why are We Sleeping" near the end of their first album. While this influence subsided over time, especially after Kevin left, it was certainly there in '66-68.

@anthenehbeze. Год назад

Oh my God when will have a master to reach me englightnment.

@lamecasuelas2 3 месяца назад

become your own master

@thekeywitness Год назад

Interesting stuff

@edgeofnow Год назад

Great video! Mahavishnu and Crimson are tops for me as well. I’m also on a journey for years on the Fourth Way and I think your spot on describing it all. Thanks so much. I recently watched your recent History of Prog series too and was quite impressed with your take on it. I especially appreciate your contention that much of the electronic music and math Rock etc…in the 1990’s counts as Prog. Have you done a video on Art Rock yet? I’d love to see that. Cheers!

@GravyDaveNewson Год назад

I also found this thinking via Fripp and Kate Bush. The Bennett statement 'it is impossible to acheive the aim without suffering' sounded very alluring and seemed to fit well with Fripp's other statements on discipline. 40 years later it seems if it was really more a mantra for struggling artists and very middle-classed, it's hard to imagine he really beleived it. Incidentally my third ever gig was Discipline at the UEA in Norwich, before the name change and album came out. Still in my top 5 gigs of all time.

@rickvenlo1362 6 месяцев назад

Very interesting would be nice to hear you do an expensive talk on exposure

@JackJenningsGuitarist 2 года назад

Wow this really caught me off gaurd. I loved it and am really hungry for more. Go deep as you want to I say we will follow with open ears and minds

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

Thanks Jack...this is definitely the strangest one I have done, let's see how many views this one gets!

@JackJenningsGuitarist 2 года назад

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yeah I hope it dose well.

@christopher.stewart 2 года назад

interesting talk... as far as bands and the esoteric go, my impression is that the two higher achievers were Yes and King Crimson... to me, King Crimson incarnates a more cold and clinical approach, accessing truth via the « head, » which essentially revolves around personal discipline, and that i associate with the japanese zen tradition... Yes incarnates a more warm and whimsical approach, accessing truth via the « heart, » which essentially revolves around worship of the spirit, which i associate with syncretic and/or non-denominational forms of spirituality... i never really thought about where the Mahavishnu Orchestra belongs in that regards, but clearly they were up there too... the absence of vocals in the music might be why i don't value their work as much as the other two bands though... about « being conscious » : anything, such as complexity, which forces the individual out of the world of abstractions, wherein they're as if asleep, brings them to consciousness and truth... reason is great at making maps, abstractions of what is out there, which is the world of experiences, and is where truth can be found... but the map is never the territory... yet reason is also great at having the individual believe that there is no difference between the two... and so the individual confuses the two, and ends up « falling asleep » in the world of abstractions... thankfully, the intelligence that animates all life is always ahead of reason, and is fascinatingly great at coming up with events and situations that shake the individual out of the world of abstractions, back into the world of experiences, back in touch with truth... which is why, ultimately, scientific knowledge, although obviously useful, is not to be confused with truth... just like a map is obviously useful, but will never be the territory... and so music is a saving grace... and the more it stays away from what is expected, the better...

@terryjohnson5275 2 года назад

Thanks Andy, interesting stuff. I have to say I do like to hear about things I've either never or rarely heard or thought about to add into my individual understanding of all things because as my knowledge of things has slowly developed my world view has changed from when I was a child at Primary school to my 59 year old self now, and doubtless it will continue to evolve until the inevitable happens, and then I either will or will not find out what its all been about. Something to look forward to, but if at the end I'm disappointed at least I wont know about it - or will I ????? .

@MrStylemed 2 года назад

A good subject and refreshing to witness a stream of consciousness.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

Thanks Tim

@JackJenningsGuitarist 2 года назад

Andy's videos really are a stream of consciousness I love it. He has mastered that for sure😀

@jdmresearch Год назад

From the Elephant Talk wiki: “The band's original lyricist, Peter Sinfield, created it as a synonym for Beelzebub, which is derived from the Arabic phrase "B'il Sabab", meaning "the man with an aim." (Another, more common etymology of "Beelzebub" is that it is Hebrew for "Lord of the Flies.") In John Milton's 'Paradise Lost', Beelzebub was Satan's chief lieutenant among the fallen angels.”

@roddmcleodable 11 месяцев назад

I tried to read the Beelzebub book and really struggled to get through the dense prose. Can't argue with the music, though. It centers me!

@MauriceHotblack 2 года назад

Interesting. This is something I'd not heard of before. I love these philosophical videos. They give me plenty to think about (I now need to investigate Gurdjieff a bit further) and make me listen differently. Tom Service and his BBC radio series The Listening Service was the first thing that made me understand ways of listening. Your philosophical videos are expanding on that for me.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

I would love to do more...but the world wants ranking videos....

@nothingmuchado 2 года назад

I tried to get into Gurdjieff in the eighties thanks to Fripp but I just couldn't connect. It did provide insight into the music though, which I enjoyed. You're right about the League of Crafty Guitarists being heavily Gurdjieff influenced and those teaching camps he ran back then were basically philosophical retreats as much as guitar lessons. As an aside, Narada Michael Waldon's drumming on "Breathless" off of Esposure is phenomenal. It's like a missing King Crimson song.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

Ouspensky is often a good way into Gurdjieff....

@Emlizardo Год назад

I once asked Fripp, "How do we know what to do next?" He recounted that Narada Michael Walden had told him that if we put the the question to ourself - Yes or No? - in our heart - he pointed to the center of his chest - and be still and listen, we'll know the answer.

@johannhauffman323 Год назад

Rambling is the future Andy. You have mentioned, that some people have the opinion that Prog was taken down by Punk in the mid 70’s. I feel that after 74 many Prog bands were offering weak, luke warm versions of their early success. I like some of the punk from that time…. I find Anarchy in the U.K. And God save the Queen extremely funny. Songs from the wood was Ok and A Trick of the Tail was surprisingly good. But, overall I was under impressed by Yes, ELP, and the rest. At the time I was listening to Jazz mostly and checking out solo albums. Such as David Bowie’s, Peter Gabriel, Peter Hammill and an absolute favorite back then was Exposure by Robert Fripp.

@opinion3742 Год назад

When i got first ever flat and I was living alone I was reading Wilson's Criminal history. Fair freaked me out.

@Niels133 Год назад

The book of Ouspensky: The 4th way is a good introduction to the Gurdijeff stuff.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer Год назад

Yes...better than many of the actual Gurdjieff groups....but tinged with Ouspensky's POV...he fell out with Gurdjieff over eternal recurrance...and ended his life as an alcoholic

@Alun49 3 месяца назад

I would love to see you interview Robert Fripp, (although I know he is very reluctant to do interviews it seems.). I think such an interview might go places most music journalists simply don't go, especially with someone like Fripp.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 3 месяца назад

I asked him, he said no....

@Alun49 3 месяца назад

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I wondered if you had. That's a shame really. I think your understanding of the music of Crimson and the esoteric philosophy underpinning Fripp's ideas is substantial. I know though that he does not particularly like being interviewed though, never mind.

@dennismason3740 Год назад

As a fringe dancer i must say that King Crimson in 82? - the Discipline band, presented some very danceable songs, along the lines of fringe time-keepers like the B-52s. Once upon a time there was an angry boy named Ginger...basically just play a kalimba and beat a pail with your feet. Same thing. When I count I can't play. I can count 1-2-3-4 pretty well. I could make Ginger laugh but he split.

@TractorCountdown Год назад

Fascinating subject. I've got loads of friends who've got into Gurdjieff over the years, all actors, male, in their early 30s - it's as if, aware that the fountain of youth is drying up, they're looking to replenish it. So I've only heard/read about him, but am aware of Ouspensky as well, and have read Jung, Colin Wilson's 'The Outsider' (interesting that that's how you came across Gurdjieff), Joseph Cambell, Arthur Koestler, but that was years ago. I imagine anyone in the arts might find something of value in such writings/teachings.

@chaosme1ster 5 дней назад

Amazing video. Or rather: amazing that someone (you) is actually talking about this stuff! I bought and read Ouspensky (about Gurdjieff) when I was about 19. And later read Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" (making all of Gurd. an easy read… hahah…), spent a few years as a member of the Rosicrucians. Etcetera. And I knew there was a kind of mysticism involved with Fripp (doing things in threes for example, like the three 80ies albums, etc.), but never knew about the Gurdjieff connection. Thanks for enlightening me (pun intended :).

@chaosme1ster 5 дней назад

Don't want to go into too much of a topical discussion - RU-vid isn't really the place for that, I feel - but I don't agree with your remark that gnosticism puts things upside down, where God is the evil dude trying to keep humanity dumb. The tree of knowledge isn't just that - it's the tree of knowledge *of good and evil*. Omitting that last part makes all the difference, I think. Knowledge of good and evil is the start of the dichotomy, the start of thinking in right and wrong, white and black, outside and inside… It's the start of non-unity, or the end of unity, and *therefore* it ends our period in paradise. The expulsion from paradise is not some kind of punishment from God, but something we brought upon ourselves. Paradise = unity with God, or original "state of being", the pre-material existence (in the theosophic sense) of the world. And when we bound ourselves to matter, to earth and mud and dust, that's when the dichotomy started. That's when we had to give birth in agony (or however it's stated in the English Bible - I'm Dutch) and "By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread", and all the other misery that came from eating that apple :). And what we have to do now, as humans, one by one, is to find the way back to that original "unity with God". To resolve the dichotomy, to overcome "maya", the illusion of the material world. And so forth and so on… Oh, and obviously thinking in terms of God and devil *also* is part of that same lost-paradise dualism that we should seek to overcome. That, I think, is the essence of gnosticism, and in fact the essence of every religion (or at least the esoteric side of every religion). In the end God and satan are one and the same, and so you can't even put things upside down as "upside down" implies a dualism that's not in line with the "true reality of things". Good lord, what are you doing to me Andy, causing all these thoughts to pop up in this head of mine? I almost feel like reading up on Gurdjieff again. Hahaha… Oh, and I've always *loved* "Exposure" - bought it in the early 80ies but never realised there was a connection to mysticism. Guess which album I'm gonna play now…

@kzustang Год назад

Really like this direction you're takimg. Started digging in this Gurdjieffian direction. Very interesting and ISOTERIC... Love that. I feel even more snobbish now.

@davidbennett2339 Год назад

Excellent video.

@martinwilliams9866 День назад

Gurdjieff system is also materialistic. The devil of the Marseilles Tarot symbolises Plato's cave from which Gurdjieff's four states of consciousness derives. The enneagram comes from S. Karpp's French book on the Zohar, mentioned in the footnote in ISOTM, & also the tetragram in Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled". Both of these are upside-down in relation to the enneagram, which was indicated by Gurdjieff when he hung a Christmas tree upside-down & had two enneagrams on either side of a dresser.

@dennismason3740 Год назад

I started singing that Got to get in to get out bit from Lamb the other night, very loudly, and folk appeared to dig it but I couldn't remember the words - something something Supermen immersed in kryptonite, and the languish fools and forgotten spools...the album where Pete G. discovers his...makeup skills. Lamb is perfect if I remove 2, 3 songs.

@TheEleatic Год назад

I would like some esoteric knowledge of Mrs. Fripp.

@kevinogracia1615 Год назад

I think Fripp "got it" by being consciously disciplined... thus, KC's comeback "Discipline." We have smidgeons of "presence" when we cook, when we write, when we play a musical instrument, when we paint... everything melts away and we are one. Now, to do it on purpose takes discipline. And this is the crux. I haven't thought about Gurdjieff, Ouspensky or Benning for 30+ years. Thanks for the re-thought. Peace on earth. PS. Pete Townsend and Meher Baba.

@charlesnolan7602 Год назад

Up to September, 1974, I think that I gained some esoteric knowledge with YES and KC. Robert's break with KC and the industry really angered me at the time. After RED, I gained a level of insight and seperated emotionally the musician from the music. I returned to KC, in 1981. KC for me is like a switch. Once again KC is in the " Off" position.

@moon_pan_ Год назад

Aparte de Gurdjieff Robert fripp también estuvo "influenciado" por la obra de Carlos "Castañeda"; las enseñanzas de don Juan,que por cierto tiene muchas similaridades con la enseñanza de Gurdjieff; entrenar la atención,parar el diálogo interno,vaciar la "isla del tonal" para acceder al otro lado/nagual,romper rutinas o el "sufrimiento voluntario" para mover nuestro punto de encaje o percepción,etc...,curioso escuchar a alguien más ver este aspecto de una atención focalizada y continúa para poder interpretar la música que tocaba king crimson,y eso ya sin hablar de la técnica necesaria...

@anthonykishko1711 Год назад

Jung? Good points on Crimson's conceptuality. Beelzeebub is insane! Have folk noticed connections with Jung. Suppers Ready has it! Obviously , Synchronicity.... In the wake of Poseidon has the archetypes, which clues us into how darkling the music explores the psyche. Having read Jung's auto biography and main works, it seems, the album cover for Lizard related to a dream Jung or a patient had of a battle between east and west with the abyss opening beneath. It's been awhile... Also, one of Jung's first dreams , he goes under ground and on a throne is what his mother whispers is the man eater! This strikes me with the imagery found inside court of the crimson kings cover, though I can't say that's the intention, but there's an obvious mindset, and blend of using Mephistopheles conjunct with an alchemy of the psyche as Through a Crimson Glass Darkly. Anyhow, too much to type. Has Andy or anyone read or seen the release of Jung's secret RED Book? Wow! Yes Crimson, a Gnostic band. We named a retro Avante new wave album Gnostic Apocalypse, with a tony Levin inspired bass on a Steinberg, ridiculous, however, I can share this for the brave: this is a conceptual piece, I wonder if anyone gets the references in the titles? It's a genre we've invented called FREEPROG wherein through Avante garde and free jazz, we compose in the moment conceptual prog modes and structures whilst immersed in space fusion improv against polyrhythms and melodic atonality attempting a cascade of shifting modulation and fractalizing counterpoint; radical outbursts like Henry Cow, otherworldly soundscapes, unique, or like Relayer in reverse! Starving artists, raw. Still developing. Anyone is welcome to jam with us. Nasty ... ☯️⚛️ Vulcans Hammer by The international Giant Enemy Cancer Cult cancercult.bandcamp.com/album/vulcans-hammer

@lamecasuelas2 Год назад

And Gabriel was very fond of Jung, right?

@mattf9076 2 года назад

I think you hit the nail on the head regarding using science and art for our interface in understanding our existence which will always be a journey. This is why I hate the idea of religion, gurus, etc, because they claim to know the answer, so that means the journey is over for them and they hold onto their ideas just like Wynton does to 1950. I feel like a lot of us here understand the esoteric in music quite well. Another hobby of mine also has this, brazilian jiu jitsu. I am a blue belt(2nd from the lowest of 5 ranks) and will tap out(give up) due to pressure from the highest of ranks even though some of them weigh a lot less than me, likewise heavier guys than me at my level will not put down anywhere near the amount of pressure. Of course any hobby or anything for that matter is going to have the esoteric. I will admit I spent time in meditation retreats, thinking about gurus, spirituality, etc for a longer time than I care to admit because at the end of the day it is all in my head and actually becomes a mental burden. This sounds weird but Kuato from Total Recall played a role in snapping me out of the spiritual thinking "A man is defined by his actions not his memories", maybe it was the dreamy music playing while he was saying that haha. So for me spending more time on putting things into the physical world than "thinking" is key. This also fits right along with my approach to music(i.e. 3 weeks ago I learned the major blues scale in 1 minute but I have been practicing it for about 30 hours and still plan to go longer). 1 minute of theory vs 30 hours of action seems like an adequate ratio.

@stuartraybould6433 2 года назад

We are brought up and educated to believe in something. I loved my Grandad, he was very religious and I had read the Bible from front to back by the time I was 8. Partly because I wanted to be like him. Then I learned about Darwin and Science and I realised that, very cleverly, the Bible and all religion is based on some reality and history. It was clever how the Roman's changed things with the Catholic Church and used that to control. Control is why all religion was created, to keep order. As I got older, as probably most people except those who follow blindly, I explored and learned about other religions and science. I suppose I was searching for something more. However, the more I learnt, the less I believed until at some point in my later teens I stopped believing in anything, even the human race. Then at various times in my life I have explored things again, trying to find something. I have a stronger belief now than ever, that there is nothing to believe in and absolutely no reason to need to believe. We are brought up to believe in something, it seems to be a human need to believe or feel that we belong to something. I now find that quite sad. The human race seems unable to cope with the fact that this is all there is. It's a big subject and this was interesting. It's human nature to look for something to believe in. I remember my Maths teacher tell me to 'come back into the room, concentrate on where you are, what you are doing now'. That is another use of religious belief, that it can help you be 'in the moment'. The more I learn, the more I believe what a load of rubbish it all is. I brought Exposure on release and played the vinyl to death. Now I have the double cd version. A great album with some wonderful performances from Peter Hammill, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, The Roaches. Breathless is Red II, other tracks have he repeated guitar that was to lead to The League of Gentlemen and then Discipline. A wonderful bridge between the older KC and the later. The Bennett speaches I could do without. This was interesting though and more music history is always welcome. 👍

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

Thanks for that long comment. There is behind all the videos on this youtube the questions and points you ask and raise. I don't know if I should push further down that avenue. So reading your comment I am drawn to the phrase 'The human race seems unable to cope with the fact that this is all there is'. What do we mean by 'this'? As Weather Report once answered...'This is This'

@stuartraybould6433 2 года назад

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer While the history is interesting, personally, I wouldn't go too far down this route, stick with the music.

@ganazby 2 года назад

Great topic. I’m primed.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

Hope you liked it...

@dennismason3740 Год назад

I prefer Easter eggs and Song for the Poor. I am grateful for the dialogue.

@SatoriSongSG2000 Год назад

Interesting thoughts here Andy - Mahavishnu and K. Crimson are two of my favourite bands. David Sylvan is another artist touched by Gurdjieff/Bennett (Gone to Earth is a great album) plus Pink Floyd after Dave Gilmour joined. I think It imparts their music with an inner layer of yearning which we recognise. I also became interested in the early 80s after reading Ouspensky’s In Search of the Miraculous, then bought Beelzebub’s Tales, which is supposed to be read three times...I only ever managed one and a half! Anyway, I‘m much older now - still interested in those things, but content to keep making new music. Great channel :-).

@dennismason3740 Год назад

Devil as Trickster. Yes.

@dennismason3740 Год назад

Ouspensky. I just remembered.

@vincentwojdacki7346 2 года назад

Thanks very much! About J.G. Bennet and Gurdjieff have plenty of reading material. To put all of this briefly into a 22-minute video ... All due respect Fripp himself was only very vague about this in some interviews. But what should one say about such inner experiences? I had a lot of fun! Thanks.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

thanks Vincent, it is an interesting subject

@dennismason3740 Год назад

Fun Facts: To date Britain has produced 1, 444 blokes named Keith who play in very competent bands.

@devereauxclandestine1272 2 года назад

Interesting stuff Andy. Had a look at a RU-vid video of the 'movements'. Odd and strangely hypnotic. I'm not too sure about early Crimson being influenced by Gurdjieff though. It was Pete Sinfield that came up with the King Crimson name and wrote the lyrics and I can't find any mention of him being influenced by Gurdjieff. Titles like '21st Century Schizoid Man' and lyrics like 'Confusion will be my epitaph' could be interpreted as aspects of the fragmented 'asleep' condition that Gurdjieff talks about but I think it's more likely Sinfield being poetically 'angsty'. It seems that it was in the mid seventies that Fripp began to talk about his interest in Gurdjieff and some of his work from around that time was influenced by his teachings. Keep up the mad stuff.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

That is possibly the case although I have heard Fripp talk about the concept of King Crimson in those terms.

@devereauxclandestine1272 2 года назад

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Well he would know, so I'm likely wrong.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

@@devereauxclandestine1272 I meant he may have said this in hindsight

@devereauxclandestine1272 2 года назад

@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yes maybe applying a Gurdjieffian ( if that's the word ) perspective on past work? Only one thing for it Andy, drop him a line and invite him on to the channel for a discussion on the esoteric influence in modern music! Worth a go.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

@@devereauxclandestine1272 Actually Fripp lives about half an hour from me and one of my ex students has been playing with Toyah, his wife, and is quite friendly with Mr Fripp. I did briefly on the phone with him many years ago too.

@ericarmstrong6540 Год назад

Great introduction to the Gurdjieff connection to Robert Fripp and King Crimson. Fripp's personal crisis in mid to late 1974 was the impetus for the 1st breakup of the band and Fripp's removal of himself from the music industry and his retreat into Sherbourne house. This was the time of his "Gurdjieffian" transformation. He uses quotes from JG Bennett extensively on "Exposure" and on the 1980 League of Gentlemen album. Regarding the connection of King Crimson to Gurdjieff, remember that the name was Peter Sinfield's inspiration. It has been said that King Crimson is a metaphor for Beelzebub, the so-called "man with an aim", rather than the Biblical/literary figure. I wonder to what extent Fripp has made the effort to reverse engineer a Gurdjieffian connection to the band name.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer Год назад

Yes...this is exactly correct, and any link to Gurdjieff prior to 1974 can only be made in terms of regarding Fripp's 'magnetic centre' ie. These were ideas he (or Sinfield) arrived at themselves.

@lamecasuelas2 Год назад

WOW, this Is very interesting. I've been a fan of the King for several years now and i was almost always aware of Fripp's link to The G, but i've never been able to really get to know what was he really about (mostly because it's very hard to get a copy of His writing that Isn't Tagged with an exorbitant Price). Anyway, for the way you describe some of the motivations behind sounds a little bit like the church of satan, again i'm not an expert and i'm not associated with the institution, but i think it's interesting How around the 20ty Century we began to see wats and new approaches to the spiritual side of life that don't align with the ideals of organized religions.

@markkusyrjala7919 Год назад

Interesting. Lots to say: I'm a born again christian and KC used to be one of my favorites, especially "In the court" album. The Red album seems like straight foward satanism when you look at it. Very disturbing. That album was before -74 and Gurdjieff stuff maybe? Well anyway also read Colin Wilson "The Outsider" before coming to Christ. It had something about Gurdjieff too. There has been a lot esoteric stuff in KC i think. What i would point out is when you talked about the garden of Eden, the serpent was not about knowledge, it was about gaining control with evil. God was warning about the consequencies. The point of why Jesus came to replace the evilness or wrong knowledge (or lets say knowledge without love) is because of this fall of man into sin. So the serpent was not the hero at all. Gnostism has got it really mixed up, i would say. We need knowledge but it must be in love only. Evil cannot love, we need our creator Father God through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit. I hope that is understandable :) Very short explanation!

@Whit-mh9nt 9 месяцев назад

The 5th Way - 20,000 micrograms Lucy every 3 days. 😂 "It is impossible to achieve the aim without suffering".The Gurdjieff thing is interesting even if you are not a follower, many pearls of wisdom to be garnered reading him, as well as Ouspensky who is maybe more clear in how he speaks.

@RobertSvilpaMusic 2 года назад

Exposure

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

incredible album...

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 2 года назад

@@davidgould2366 I have been trying to find some information about this for you and can't. It would be good to consult the liner notes....

@matereo Год назад

I used to be very deep into these things.. Gurjieff, Theosophy, Swedenborgianism and Antroposophy etc. Today i am a somewhat reformed Lutheran. A pretty large section of my library consist of books on those outlooks and nearby topics like magic, and i call the section heresies :) But i love King Crimson, Frippertronics, the league of crafty guitarists and all that stuff.

@duanedavidson7219 Год назад

yup, lapping up this cat food, more please

@Whit-mh9nt 9 месяцев назад

The 5th Way - 20,000 micrograms Lucy every 3 days. 😂 The Gurdjieff thing is interesting een if you are noba follower, many pearls of wisdom to be garnered reading him, as well as Ouspensky who is maybe more clear in how he speaks.

@stuffupthecracks 2 года назад

"The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it" . And, I might add, gor the better.

@davidlee6720 6 месяцев назад

Guierdjieff was either a genius or a gigantic con-man - I have never been able to make my mind up - I think this was all a part of his method - to force you to think and not just follow - I remember reading about how Krishnamurti visited him surreptitiously and warned against his method of egotistical self-knowledge and deliberate, conscious interference with instinctive processes which evolution has endowed us with in order to make decisions on the spur of the moment in dangerous situations: we interfere with these at our peril. ( wonder If G did this in is devastating car crash?). Krishnarmurti was also against too much Self-knowledge and Becoming which he said were the two main causes of our suffering. We are never satisfied, we have 'constant craving' as they say. As usual I am torn between the two opposing spiritual and philosophical viewpoints; I think basically in the end you just have to wait patiently until you get a bit older and wiser, no one can really show you how , you have to find out for yourself . And Gurus themselves usually have feet of clay anyway!

@AndyEdwardsDrummer 6 месяцев назад

He was both, an enlightened charlatan

@martinwilliams9866 День назад

I call him an authentic charlatan.

@billjones8503 Месяц назад

King Crimson means Satan was told by friend when first got into them in early 80's. Freaked me out a bit, but didn't take it too seriously. They have a reason-Fripp & others-how doesn't mean it literally: "How did King Crimson get their name? Pete Sinfield was looking for a synonym for Beelzebub! That is not to say that King Crimson are a satanic band because they are not. King Crimson started playing the heavy music out of creative frustration when the Giles, Giles & Fripp bombed miserably." So says Wikipedia.

@embededfabrication4482 8 месяцев назад

Its just cause they were doin acid

@tommeadows-ie2xb Месяц назад

yet another old man going on about robert fripp. time to catch up on new music.

@AndyEdwardsDrummer Месяц назад

I'm not an old man. I have always promised not to delete comments but this is just tiresome. Yes please go and catch up on some new music elsewhere please

@Whit-mh9nt 9 месяцев назад

The 5th Way - 20,000 micrograms Lucy every 3 days. 😂

@dennismason3740 Год назад

...when the mustache, is more, than the man, his crazy eyes distract you, his plan is so far beyond you how can you understand? New song! Mahavishnu rules!

@polutropos Год назад

G said what he was teaching was the ABC's of Christianity. As for Beelzebub's TTHG, that's a failed work, worshipped by Gurdjieffians who got lost looking at the finger rather than what it's pointing towards. Much better to read the Holy Bible Genesis to Revelation. With Zappa & Bach as bookends between readings.🕛

@dennismason3740 Год назад

I checked out of Gurdieff when I read that book by that slavish dude whose names starts with "O" and yes, I slogged through the whole thing. Then I forgot about Gee-Eye for the rest of my life. Liars, bloody liars. Even Ringo avoided that egoism. Why do I hate these guys so much? Something about their dancing annoys the shite outta me. Not the actual idea of dance, right, I mean the "deep meaning" of the movements annoys the funk outta me. Not r'n'r'.