King Jon & Queen Sansa: Clues & Foreshadowing (Game of Thrones) 

There's really a lot of subtext with Jon/Sansa And I would actually say that the bond that Jon/Dany share is nonexistent lol

@@Feuerhexe82 Jon/Dany was too forced, imo. Their romance make me cringe because there's. no. chemistry! It feels like their actors were less than half-hearted when acting those "romantic" scenes

M MG and he hesitate when Sansa asked him is he in love with Dany .

@@TheHoneycomb5 And I might be reaching, but personally I find it telling the way she asked him. She asked him softly “or because you love her?” To me this felt like she really cared about his answer and didn’t want him to be in love with her. Like it would pain her. I felt if she asked this from a place of no romantic feelings she would have been angrier and maybe crueler/dirtier with her words. Something like “all it took was for you to lay with her.” Basically calling him pussy whipped, not such dirty words, Sansa would never, but focusing more on the implications that Jon would give up the north for sex. Rather than to ask if he did it because he loved her.

Kat A. Yes, Jon wouldn't just marry her for her claim to the North. I think Sansa will propose this marriage herself to keep him tied to the North. It's the best option for both of them, personally as well as politically. A Time for Wolves is coming :)

"'Only Jon would marry her and love her, not caring about claims and titles.' Wow, that line kind of touched me lol. It's sooo true." You've obviously never heard about Sandor Clegane ...

@@madampluto3092 I don't think its viable for Sansa to marry someone like Sandor.

And marrying someone who you thought was your brother for 11+ isn't disgusting? ​@@joshstroven8284

​@@joshstroven8284 because marrying someone who you thought was your brother for 11+ years and who looks like your father isn't gross?

Trystan Boulden well

Ah fuck

…

Candice Addison Right, Jonnel Stark was Sansa Stark's half-uncle actually. And wink wink bis mother's name was Lynara ;)

@DESTINY Gamerz why so angry? People are just having fun with some fan theories.. I am usually one of those who dislike every theory out there but this one makes sense. Only thing that is problematic is that Jon would have to give up his Targaryen name which would mean giving up on the throne in order for Sansa to remain a Stark if she marries him. Otherwise she becomes a Targaryan and it's up to Arya to carry on the Stark name by marrying a lower lord who would marry into the Stark house and children would keep the Stark name.

Aboleo80 If GoT doesn't end with Jon and Sansa raising Daenerys and Jon's baby and being king and queen of the north, I'mma be pissed af. Hear me out. Jon and Sansa are alot like Ned and Cat. Only Sansa will love this other woman's child. There are so many parallels between those two pairs it's insane. They marry and get everything they ever wanted. Sansa: it's the only thing I ever wanted! (About marrying a prince and one day being a queen) Jon: all my life I wanted to be a Stark. And then Arya and Gendry are gonna become king and queen of rule the rest of Westeros. Lyanna was promised to Robert. History is gonna repeat itself and play out better🤗 that'd be a perfect ending

@DESTINY Gamerz SOME PEOPLE SEE THAT THATS WHY JONERYS WONT HAPPEN LOL

@DESTINY Gamerz ooofff not anymore buddy💀

CandidlyCapricious And the most interesting parallel in this: it’s *not* necessarily _true_ that their brothers would have been better; Ned’s the self-effacing type, & felt the shadow of his brother- who was perceived by so many as ‘better’, over everything he ever did & had... but we *know* Brandon would likely have done what Ned was only accused of- screwing around with mistresses definitely, & popping out bastards (probably)- his relationship with Barbrey may only be through her rose-tinted glasses, **but** it does give us an interesting perspective- Cat holds a lot of resentment toward Ned for recognising Jon- maybe Brandon wouldn’t go that far, but to assume he would give up his mistress- or that he would never take another after marriage, is just plain gullibility; the likelihood that it was Brandon was the Stark that was involved with ‘dishonouring’ Ashara Dayne, than ‘shy’ Ned is pretty high, IMO. And we know that Jon thought Robb was better than he at most things- yet Robb scuppered two important alliances, because he appeared to lack pragmatism- the Freys, by putting personal honour above political necessity & not taking any real measure of who he was dealing with- & the Karstarks, by not being willing to make a necessary compromise. *accidentally typed ‘legitimised’, rather than ‘recognised’

Ned wasn’t a king. He was just Warden of North.

@@joshstroven8284you still have to correct that. Warden of the North and King of the North are two different things.

Cheyenne Willis Exactly, I agree. Sansa has really grown on me these past seasons and I think it's a great sign. And what they created between her and Jon is unique, deep and touching. Jon and Daenerys just had sex, period. She's not even his type at all, esp. character wise. He seemed zero interested as well

Feuerhexe... plus everyone thinks that Dany is just going to step aside and let him have the iron throne? No ain’t happening! That would be totally out of character for her. And like I said she is becoming more and more power hungry. I agree I think it was more of a lust situation then a love thing bc real lasting love grows and develops. I dont buy into Dany being a villain of the show but I do think it would be a neat twist, bc I don’t think the night king is exactly as bad as we think. This whole thing of Dany and Jon falling in love and getting married and living happily ever after is bull, this ain’t the notebook, since when did anyone end up living happily ever after.

I don't think the Night King is this one-dimensional villain. I think he's got some plan, we just don't know it yet. GRRM always pointed out that ice and fire can both bring destruction, and we saw that especially in season 7. Daenerys coming to Westeros gave the Night King the chance to get a dragon and that gave him a weapon to breach the Wall. I wouldn't necessarily call Daenerys a villain in the making, but I think next season 8 she's gonna be an antagonist. It was already heavily set up last season. This pure savior trope is definitely not working with her (anymore). Even if I believed that Jon was somehow all of a sudden super in love with her just because she went North with her dragons and saved his men (even though they still don't know anything about each other really since they hardly ever talked), it wouldn't mean anything since Jon/Daenerys make no sense on a political level once R+L=J is out. It makes him a legitimate Targaryen, he's losing the North (he never had a claim to the North anyway ergo no right to give it away because he's still officially a bastard) and neither of them would get anything out of this union. Jon doesn't even want to live in a city like King's Landing, they also fundamentally different People with completely different goals, different leaderships, different personalities etc. They are not compatible in any shape or form. Also I don't see why this story would end with yet another Targaryen reign when it's clear that Westeros is over them and their nuclear bomb rulership. The North definietly wouldn't acccept it and we saw that everyone who bent the knee to Daenerys only did this because Drogon threatened them. I don't see why everything would end with no political changes at all. Above all, Daenerys wanted the throne since season 2, so her ending up ruling would be the most anticlimatic ending ever, not to mention she's basically a foreign invader, a powerful conquerer, but really not a good ruler.

Feuerhexe I agree 100%

totally agree 😍

Also, Sansa was supposed to "go after" Jon's throne. Season 7 said, "think again", lmao. I love it!

Right? A Jon/Daenerys marriage makes no sense at all. The North hates the Targaryens and southern rulers who oppress them. She's a foreign invader with no ties to Westeros other than her "birth right". And how would a Targ restoration and two Targs marrying unify anything? Also Jon is destined to be king, Daenerys is not meant to rule. It was shown again and again that she's a conquerer and not a ruler.

Also seemed pretty clear, at least in the show, Sansa makes up for the traits that Jon lacks, vice versa, leadership-wise. Also they balance each other in the sense Sansa's arc has taken place predominantly in the political narrative, she was far separated from the fantasy side of ASOIAF/GoT (about starting the moment her direwolf died). While Jon was on the other side of the spectrum fighting ice zombies, still has his direwolf, fire magic and literal death/resurrection. Also he's half _dragon_. I'm interested in Sansa's arc and the importance it could hold _balancing_ Jon's especially for the fact I fall in the camp believing magic is coming to an end in this universe. That ASOIAF/GoT has been one long The Magic Goes Away trope. In that Sansa's arc would be _critically_ important how it relates to Jon's. Sansa's arc could end up bringing over Jon's and transitioning him away from the fantasy narrative and ultimately to the political in the end. Which is rather poetic if you look at 6x04 and how Sansa's presence and insistence they fight for Winterfell & for Rickon was what gave Jon a purpose in life rather than trying to run away and attempt to forget the ice zombies and the great war to come. Like a major role in Sansa's arc could be as Jon's other half, but his other half giving him drive & purpose. Compel him to keep on fighting, no matter the odds.

viper_ren I agree and this is a very insightful addition of yours. I think so too, all magic will be gone by the end. Jon can be considered a magical being now after his resurrection and Sansa can ultimately pull him back into the real political world

I do think it's rather symbolic too that in the fight to get Winterfell back in the show (which is heavily paralleled to a giant chess 'game', aka the King's Landing political 'game' symbolically rearing it's head again, Sansa being the Queen piece and Ramsey being the opponent King.... and Sansa, the far more political character between Jon and Sansa, checkmated him. She checked a self-proclaimed games-master), the last of the giants died. The episode after Jon and Sansa reunited, Bloodraven and, as it would seem, the last of the Children of the Forest also died. Jon also banished Melisandre from the North upon penalty of death if she should return at the end of season 6 (and Melisandre already foretold her death - as well as Varys' - in Westeros in early season 7). Magic is dying, though there are a few big holdouts obviously, Bran being the new (if rather newborn) Three Eyed Raven, the White Walkers, the Red Priests (though their magic may fade/die once the dragons do) and Daenerys' two dragons. Though if they're all that is for magic's major holdouts? That's not all that much keeping magic alive in the story. I do think it's going to be the political story that ends both the ASOIAF and GoT narratives and all magic will die, probably in a whole lot of "fire and blood" as I see magic going out kicking & screaming to the bitter(sweet) end, but I do think it will indeed die.

tetrizaddictuz I'm prepared lol I'm always open for discussions. People are free to argue against this video. But don't call me delusional and then say Jon and Daenerys will rule happily ever after with a magical!baby lol

Kaylin B They just prove again and again that they have no arguments, so all they can do is bully, insult and harrass. It's a pattern really. However, just makes it even harder for me to take it seriously

Sansa really is the smartest person around at the moment, and she definitely takes no shit. I really liked the Sansa/Daenerys interactions, how they are literally the opposite of each other and how Daenerys keeps on relying on fear and intimidation while Sansa leads her people, worries about food and everything. I can't wait for more post parentage reveal interactions between her and Jon

I think you're right. I cannot imagine all of this is pure coincidence and that the writers aren't hinting at something in particular. They're writing them in such a characteristic way with a heavily romantic undertone. This goes waaaay beyond brother-sister or simply "the last family member I have left". Look at Jon's reaction alone everytime Sansa gets mentioned and mentioned in a romantic context. The writers must be aware that viewers will interpret this in a very particular way. Then this whole writing of them being a team, being a match of co-rulers, what am I supposed to think? That's it's not super relevant? That they're not doing this for a very good reason? At this point they must already be pointing at the endgame somehow and drop clues. The parentage reveal, learning that they are cousins and not half-siblings after all, will have a major positive Impact for these two.

I predict when Jons' true parentage is revealed it will be Sansa that suggests marriage to legitimize his rule of The North and ensure the survival of House Stark. I think there is a precedent in the novels where the eldest daughter from a House with no male heirs can give her name to her Husband to keep her house going and this is the ONLY way I can see House Stark surviving. Bran won't ever marry or have children because of his condition as a cripple and The Three-Eyed Raven and Sansa being as politically shrewd as she is will recognize that the Northern-Lords will only follow Jon if he is a legitimate Stark. Just like Ned and Cat it will be a marriage of practicality that will grow into a strong Love-Partnership.

TheMuph Oh I didn't know that. But I was wondering about this as well. How could House Stark possibly continue? Of course we want them to go on. Sansa doesn't have to become a Targaryen if she marries one. And I really really don't think Jon will EVER change his name from Jon Snow to Aegon Targaryen. Nobody will call him that. He always wanted to be Jon Stark. And remember that scene in season 6 where they talk about which houses they could convince to join their fight against Ramsay? Sansa said the North would still risk everything for the Stark name. Davos pointed out that Jon doesn't have the Stark name. Sansa said "No, but I do" The camera then focused on Jon. Yes I agree, I think Sansa would be the one to suggest marriage to protect Jon and secure the loyalty of the Northern houses. I'm certain she'll play the essential role when it comes to consoling him when he learns he's not Ned's son.

Exactly! It only makes sense Jon would have feelings for Sansa because she is being everything Cat SHOULD have been for him, kind and nurturing, when he was a little boy. Cat wasn't his biological mother but she was the only mother figure he ever knew and she rejected him. Men with terrible mothers tend to seek the approval of women that resemble them all their lives and this fits Jons track record with Roz and Ygritte hell you could tell he was attracted to Melisandre despite how creepy she was. What did they have in common? They were all strong Redheaded women. But Jon being Jon he hates himself for having these feelings for his little sister and he is trying REAL hard to suppress them. He threw himself at Dany because he was desperate to stop thinking about Sansa but no one can kill that kind of love.

TheMuph Yeah, Jon's history is crowded with red-heads: Cat, Ros, Ygritte, Melisandre, Sansa (and hey even Tormund lol) Now tell me this is coincidence lol Also re: Cat. I was thinking about this too. Sansa could actually kind of "make up" for Cat's behavior towards Jon. It would be kind of poetic in a way. Cat couldn't love him, but Cat 2.0 can :)

Ulysse? I think you mean Jon is Odysseus

--Destiny-- I agree 100%. JonSa is one of the least delusional theories. I wouldn't be that invested in it if there were no clues. But there are so many, in the books and on the show. I think some people just don't WANT to see it because for some reason they think Jon and Dany are this epic power couple and everything else is not acceptable. Then why didn't the writers seem to bother with writing a proper believable romance between Jon and Daenerys? Yet they focus so much on the Jon/Sansa relationship. Why?

Maybe Jon & Dany is to show how another toxic relationship aka Robb & Talisa or like the Jaime & Cersei incest can go, that's why it's so awkard to watch and installed out of the blue, while you point out that Sansa/Jon isn't. Aunt/nephew-marriage isn't easy to watch because it's even more incest. Even Tyrion (much like Catelyn with Robb&Talisa would have) has a lot trouble when he thinks about the political implications (that's why he shots this concerned look) and for his position. I noticed their growing relationship in season 7 as well. Funny, when everyone in the fandom especially Sansa haters bickering around how Sansa betrayed House Stark and Jon in the Battle of the Bastards, when all she wanted to do was to stand and wanted to be independent free from the clutches of Littlefinger. She didn't informed Jon about LF, because how she knows dangerous he is and how he treated her. But Jon with his plans to attack soon/without the larger numbers left her no choice to offer him a reward (most likely herself as a bait) for the army. Littlefinger would most likely stabbed Jon in the back with the Vale army like he had done with Ned and the Goldcloaks in King's Landing to install Sansa as Warden and rule through her. So it was Sansa that protected herself and maybe even Jon from getting 100% killed. "Love didn't just happen to us. We built it slowly over the years, stone by stone, for you, for your brothers and sisters, for all of us. It's not as exciting as secret passion in the woods, but it is stronger. It lasts longer." (Catelyn Stark, 2.10 "Valar Morghulis") While a slowly building rebuilding relationship like Ned/Cat had is really healthy and worth for to build, that a good message. And I'm a fan of the Ned/Cat-relationship. Maybe it's like that Sansa will heal Jon after everything happened with Daenerys, when she dies in childbirth? Would be good to. While I'm personally not into JonSa and never will (sorry about that), because I'm a Sanrion-shipper. I know that the Sansa-Tyrion-marriage in the show was a lot milder than in the books, where It's even more unlikely, (and yes that wasn't also for love and forced which is also toxic like Martin wanted to point out). I'm still fustrated but at the same time attracted how they are in a some ways want similar things (wanted to be loved and have parallel character arcs) but don't communicate or missunderstood each other due to the circumstances that led to their marriage. In the show he at least gave her a little glimpse of an almost Cat/Ned marriage, he treated her right. So yeah, a sunken ship for you, but a girl can dream, that they get along well in S8 and after that. It's complicated. *But, I want to point out I really truely appreciate your video, recognize your effort you put in and the proof or notes/evidents you point out. I only can agree with.* And I support a happy Sansa in the end wether if she ends up with Jon, Sandor, Tyrion or alone I'm fine with.

Thank you so much for this lovely comment! Jon/Daenerys... well, I have so many issues with this on so many levels. It worked zero for me and I was shocked about how poorly it was written. Also how there was absolutely no romantic vibe from Jon's side while she at some point started throwing him heart eyes. And then boom an awkward rushed banging session while he looks like he's suffering a panic attack and they do a cross cut of Bran telling the audience they're related and that Jon is the true heir, basically foreshadowing major drama. lol. I still believe Jon is on a political mission (political Jon theory all the way), he's not in love with her. If they had wanted to write an epic love story with them, they would have done that. But for some reason they didn't. And it doesn't matter anyway since they make zero sense politically since they're both legitimate Targaryens. I also think all this baby talk hitting it over the head of the audience means major red herring. Everyone thinks a magical baby is coming which is exactly why it won't happen. And if it happens (WTF Jon, you never wanted to father a bastard, remember, and also please no more soap opera), and she most certainly dies, it would be yet another Ned/Cat parallel, Jon bringing a bastard child home from war *lol* Sansa/Tyrion on the show was a weirdly acceptable pairing. They were both forced into this marriage, but still on some level it felt less toxic than many other relationships. I agree, Sansa needs to see her happy ending. She had the most amazing character arc on the show, killing her last minute after everything she's been through, getting tortured, violated, raped, growing up to be a political, fierce lady who learnt a lot.... it would send a super bad message. D&D have to give her some closure. If she marries again, it won't be purely political. It will be with someone she also loves. And right now the only man she fully trusts, who really treats her like a princess without asking for anything in return, who she is closest to is Jon. I really appreciate your nice comment. This fandom can be very very toxic, difficult and intolerant, especially when it comes to "shipping". Cheers :)

Sorry for not anwsering rightaway. Yes, I'm uncomfortable with Jon/Daenerys as it was weirdly installed, like we are told by other characters (Davos, Tyrion) but not they didn't show it that way. But I think there could only some to it due to the Azor Ahai/TPTWP prophecies, which are a deal here. I think the death of Daenerys is pretty much safe, from the vision of the HotU, where snow lies on the IT and Dany doesn't touch it. And maybe due to the reverse situation of season 1 - forging of Lightbringer, while Drogo dies and Dany lives, this time it will be Dany who dies in childbirth and Jon lives. "He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi, that once there were two moons in the sky. But one wandered too close to the sun and it cracked from the heat, and out of it poured a thousand thousand dragons and they drank the sun's fire." (Doreah, The Kingsroad) "'When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east..." --> Jon could be the new sun, that send the moon (Dany) cracking. History repeats itself: Dany gave a speech like Drogo. I guess you could been right, about the banging, that he does this for political reasons or loyalty, but then what would he gain from her, he has already declared for her and gain her alliance. Maybe more for plot reasons. But we don't should forget despite Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna and what is shown in the show, he certainly was into her only for the TPTWP-prophecy. Sorry for elaborating on Jon/Dany and not Jon/Sansa so much, but I think it's also some kind of natural due to predicting the fate/endgames of the characters. Jon doing Ned and care for the child would be really good IMO. I think and hope Sansa would be a better mother figure to him/her than Cat was to Jon. I think it would be really wrong to kill her off to. Sansa is a really misunderstood character for a lot people, because they think she only care for herself (like in the BotB) or her position, not for her home or her family. Her learning or navigating to live in the capital and to know how the GOT works is definitely a trait/future knowledge that the future generations Starks really need to survive and to adjust maybe to food a new sort of House as you elaborate. Sansas arc is one of the major themes in the story. ("I'm a slowly learner, but I learn."), like characters from other works of George R.R. Martin. Before the Starks weren't that much in the South like Ned/Catelyn made in some ways the mistake to shelter their kids to much from the South but don't pass on the knowledge about how dangerous it can be. It's time to change it. While Arya and Bran will play vital roles in the story - I guess that they will not be afterwards. Especially Bran. And yes, it's a question of tolerance. :) Greetings, Aki

The Jon/Daenerys alliance is a very complicated thing. He's seen multiple times how impulsive she can be when things don't go right for her. And remember the Dragonpit scene. She said to him "I can't forget what I saw north of the wall. But I also can't pretend that Cersei won't take back half the kingdom the moment I march north". The disappointed look on his face when she said that said it all. She saw the Night King, saw his army, she lost a "child", yet she was still thinking about the throne. She wasn't fully committed to his cause. He said to Sansa at the beginning of the season "I'm concerned with the Night King because I've seen him. And you would think of little else too if you had". Well Daenerys saw the Night King, but she's still thinking about the throne. Yes, she agreed to go north, but only for now. What happens if she suddenly learns that Cersei did in fact take back half the kingdom. She is very impulsive. And Jon is not stupid. He noticed the heart eyes she started to throw at him at some point. By saying things like "Hey maybe you can have children after all" he tried to make her softer and focus her priorities on the future. On survivial. And that means defeating the Night King. If Daenerys thinks she has nothing to fight for long term since she doesn't have an heir, then what's the purpose of her entire endeavour? So he does the last thing he can do, he decides to sleep with her to get her fully on his side, emotionally involved and committed to his cause. It would also explain his hestitation before knocking (he looked like an actor getting ready to play a role) and the look of, excuse me, panic on his face during the act :-/ According to the original outline of the episode, Daenerys even summoned him to her room because she had "a few things to discuss". It's a very interesting topic and one you can analyse for hours. There are tons of metas about this and they're super interesting. I definitely try to do a video about this. I really have no idea yet what could happen to Bran and Arya. I think Bran might be a goner, and Arya, well I can't really imagine that she'd ever settle down really. Anything could happen there. Sansa is probably still the most underestimated character. So many people still blame her for how she was behaving when she was 11, they completely ignore her entire arc. She's been pretty much all over Westeros by now, learnt from so many people, from the best schemers and became a powerful political character. But I think it's good that she's still getting underestimated. Her becoming queen will surprise even more people this way ;)

petis1976 I think Sansa will be the one who proposes a marriage after the R+L=J reveal, to protect Jon and keep him tied to the North. She's the key to the North, he can choose to finally take the Stark name. I do believe GRRM changed the Arya/Jon/Tyrion plot from the first outline to Sansa/Jon and maybe Tyrion. Though I don't think there will be competition. Daenerys dies 100% and her and Jon doesn't make sense politically anyway (plus all the other differences that make them not compatible). Not sure where Tyrion is gonna end up though ,maybe sipping Imp's Delight somewhere lol

I want the Sansa change when she realizes Jon is her cousin and she can love him to be subtle, then become more intense until she tells him she loves him before he leaves her for battle.

@@joshstroven8284 I thought bran himself has said he can’t sit a throne, he’s the three eyed raven.

@@wellhowthehellareyahe can’t be a lord, but he could be a king.

@@Feuerhexe82 The irony if this was to happen would be that Jon goes with Arya instead. If we knew then what we know now, like scenes remove from the book because they were too heavy handed

Grace Marca Registrada You're right! I read that as well. Very interesting. There's even a theory that Jon will lose an eye.

11ideas I couldn't have said it any better :)

Thank you very much. I really appreciate people watching it who were not into this theory before since it's a very long video.

lol aww thanks

Game of Theories with Marie Exactly, thanks Marie :))

Maybe the Ygritte/Val issue was foreshadowing? ;)

Oh i wonder why🤔

SuriSuri Yes the Jon/Sansa dynamic and their chemistry really surprised me. I didn't expect their characters to work together so well.

Dana Thank you, I don't really get why this theory is considered to be one of the most lunatic delusional theories. It's quite the contrary, but from personal experience it's mostly a certain group of fans who love to trash it. But open-minded people who appreciate and acknowledge the many layers of GRRM's complex story usually react in a pretty positive way. There are countless of fantastic metas, people discover new things pretty much every day, it's amazing :)

the Song of Ice and Fire is Jon. It was clear in one of Dany's visions in the book too when she sees Raeghar. Jon is both. He doesn't need Dany to be "fire"

Peter Blair Sophie Turner loves throwing people off probably more than anyone else. After season 6 she said Sansa thought Littlefinger had a point and she was seduced by the pretty picture he painted. And what happened? Sansa didn't betray Jon and executed LF. Sophie also didn't know back then where the story is heading in season 8.

Peter, I agree and its funny how out of all of the wild theories out there that D&D never have commented on this one.. I think its some truth too it as well. There have been countless fan mentions of Jon and Sansa but they havent addressed that rumor at all.. very interesting I think! www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Jon-Snow-Sansa-Stark-Married-Game-Thrones-43424406

Stevie Genius Thank you so very much! :)

Steve! lol... that is STILL doing those videos!

Bella Richards Exactly!

My Jolly Sailor Bold Please watch the end of my video again, read GRRM's Interview and watch In Deep Geek's video

My Jolly Sailor Bold I didn't want to write Jon and Dany because its a controversial subject, didn't want any hate mail LOL

My Jolly Sailor Bold you guys sound like a broken Record with the same old tired mantra. You guys really should get it tatted on your foreheads considering how much you say it. George has already stated in a interview telling us what the title of his series means. Hint: it’s not Jon and Dany. Jon is Fire (Rhaeger) and Ice (Lyanna). He’s already both. Daenerys is just fire. The Song of Ice and Fire has many meanings but it’s not some shippers fantasy of Jon and Dany being Ice and Fire.

edentaylor211 It's amazing in a scary way, these people really sound like a broken record. They can't accept that Daenerys is not the center of the universe. They reduce the meaning of GRRM's deep complex work to Daenerys banging her nephew. The Daenerys fans who actually understand her character know that this is not where her arc is going.

Patrick Cudmore Thanks Patrick. No I didn't want to convert anyone. I simply wanted to show that this theory has a solid foundation.

No.

Oh and don't forget the departure scene too. Littlefinger looking at Sansa watching Jon leave...Tyrion looking at Dany watching Jon leave. The parallels are there if only people stop arguing with each other and pay close attention to the scenes.

Good observation. The Eastwatch scene mainly stuck with me because Jon looks so very annoyed and frustrated, if you look at the Winterfell hall scene he's just mainly eager to make Sansa and everyone else understand why he has to do this for everyone's survival. Jon didn't want to leave Winterfell but he had to, he wanted to leave Dragonstone but wasn't allowed to, got increasingly annoyed and frustrated and at the end had to use his status as king to leave. The theme of trust is mirrored in these scenes as well, but in 7x5 it's about trusting a stranger ("I'm asking you to trust in a stranger"), whereas in the Winterfell scene Jon and Sansa show that they have grown incredibly close and he makes her understand just with a nod that he trusts her and she should trust him in return and she does. I see this more like foils for each of these relationships, the biggest hint was Jon turning back around to look at Sansa one more time whereas he couldn't leave Dragonstone fast enough and didn't bother to look back. I know there's love triangle speculations, I think they might go into that direction, but I don't think it's a classic triangle where someone can't choose between two people as I don't think Jon has any romantic feelings for Daenerys. I think it's gonna be more like in GRRMs original story outline where he planned a Jon/Arya/Tyrion triangle where Jon and Arya were secretly in love, and Tyrion was in love with Arya but she didn't love him. This would make a lot of sense as well if we consider Dany's history of betrayal / her betrayal prophecies / her constant fears of getting betrayed. She will face a few more betrayals next season, Jon being one of them.

Jon betraying Dany is a tough pill to swallow, I can't see it happening at all since it's not in his nature to do something like that unless it's for the greater good. But besides that, the producers clearly showed us the difference between Dany and Sansa in ep 5 of season 7. At the beginning of the Ep. we see Dany losing her shit and burning people. Tyrion, of course, astonished at what's happening and disapproving everything she's doing mirroring this scene in the SAME ep. is an argument Sansa is having with Arya about punishing the northern lords for questioning their King's decision. "Now chopping off heads is very satisfying but that's not the way we get people to work together". Tyrion is most likely the one to betray Dany. If Tyrion finds out that Jon Snow is the heir to the throne he and Varys might try to find a way to make Jon Snow and not Dany sit on the iron throne. It's quite clear that Dany is impulsive, dangerous and might end up becoming a Mad Queen. This will, of course, result in the death of Varys as was stated in Season 7 ep 2 by Dany "Swear this to me, Varys. If you ever think I'm failing the people, you won't conspire behind my back. You'll look me in the eye as you have done today, and you'll tell me how I'm failing them. Lord Varys: I swear it, my queen. Daenerys Targaryen: And I swear this, if you ever betray me, I'll burn you alive." and Dany being dany who doesn't apparently give a shit about love but only power (which is further shown in Season 6 ep 10 when she dumped Dario like it was nothing "I said farewell to a man who loves me. A man I thought I cared for. And I felt nothing.". Dany will turn against Jon. What will happen I can't say. All I can say is this... It is very VERY unlikely that Jon and Dany are end game.

@@kevincooper4955 Jon's entire arc is about coming into his own as leader, finding a way to fight the WW and what he has to do for his duty. He was a spy for a whole season and betrayed the wildlings including Ygritte for his duty. He went to Mance Rayder with the set decision to kill him during negotiations in his own tent, just a few examples. Lying to a foreign invader with screwed up priorities in order to save the world is something absolutely in line with his character and not nearly the worst thing he's done so far. It's classic GRRM. As for the other things you mention I agree. But Tyrion and Varys won't be the only ones who betray her imo.

@@Feuerhexe82 You could be right. But honestly, I believe that Jon won't betray Dany. I truly believes that he loves Dany but I also believe that he's blind too because he believes that Dany is a saviour and she's doing this out of the kindness of her heart. I think Tyrion notices this which is why he had such a concerned look in the final ep of Season 7 when Jon and Dany were having sex. Jon doesn't really know what kind of person Dany is. Dany is dangerous, hot-tempered and impulsive. She's a conqueror, not a saviour. However just because he loves Dany doesn't mean that he doesn't love Sansa. Dany will betray Jon. Three things might set her off (1) When she finds out that Jon and not her is the heir to the throne (2) She might find out or suspect that her advisors don't approve of her sitting on the throne. There may conspire to have Jon sit on the throne (3) His close/awkward protective relationship with Sansa. Sansa will be like an open book to Dany. I think she'll know a jealous women when she sees Sansa. The looks that Sansa has (from the photos) can be implied as the looks of a jealous woman. Upon learning of Jon's heritage it WILL change the dynamic of Dany's relationship with Jon and Jon's relationship with Sansa. Dany might go mad. There are confirmed leaked photos of Winterfell on fire and leaked photos of the Golden Company in ashes and leaked photos of Jon and Cersei having conversations in King's Landing. Can we assume that Dany loses her shit, burns Winterfell to the ground heads south in a fit of rage fights Cersi...and lost. I can't see Cersi working with Jon if they both fought a battle and Dany is still around. I mean the scenes with the Golden Company covered in ashes means that Dany must have fought with Cersei and if she did it's not in her nature to keep Cersei alive if she won. Jon probably lost the battle in the north and went south ...Jaimie told Cersi what happened that Dany left on her own and betrayed the north and so Cersi lets them come into King's landing to mount a final defence. This is how I think it might play off. Also somewhere in the story, Varys will get burned alive. Varys is the key to his whole theory. I believe that he will die by dany's hand in Season 8 as was foreshadowed in Season 7 by Melissandre and Dany's chilling warning of burning him alive if he betray's her.

Kimberly Huggins-Simkus Hi and thank you very much! ❤

Oh wow thank you so much for the many compliments :) Cheers

"Who manipulated whom" and the realization and relief on Sansa's face that maybe Jon is not the dumbass here phew I was living heh

Since Dany is so inbred, her and Jon share practically the same amount of DNA as siblings do. besides, cousin marriage is perfectly normal and acceptable in Westeros (as in many cultures and countries nowadays). I think people just mainly see the beautiful two main protagonists, not the issue of how they are related.

Thank you :)

You're absolutely welcome! ♡

Thanks a lot. Yeah, there are really tons of foreshadowings not mentioned in this Video. All the metas are full of them and people find new stuff almost every day. It's a smart fandom :)

If they were together at the end then it would be too easy. It’s left open ended cause Sansa could very well go above the Wall and get him.

I think Sansa and Tyrion will be on the throne, not Jon Snow. Unfortunuately for his fans, Jon will die, I'm pretty sure! And I hope so, because I don't like him!

iAsianCamel Jon's been my favorite character from my first read through of the books. I didnt like sans till later in the books. I believe jon will die. I dont want him to. I want the final scene to be him on the iron throne, being crowned king with ghost at his feet, long claw naked on his lap and all the lords, ladies and knights left in the realm bending the knee as his list of titles are being named with sam, arya, sansa, tyrion, davos and gilly holding his and dany's baby beside him. Brienne all in white armor and cloak as the new lord/lady of the kings guard. As the camera pans the doors to the throne room shut. But that's not going to happen. Danny is dead no matter what. She will die in child birth or as a sacrifice as nisa nisa. I believe jon dies taking out the night king in single combat on dragon back. I believe he sacrifices himself for the realm and will go out like the rouge prince and the last scene will be sam reading the history of the second battle for the dawn to jon and Danny's baby. The baby also has to be a boy to carry on the targ name. There is no other reason for them to go to the trouble of making sure jon is legitimate. I dont believe his name will be aegon in the books. My guess is either aemon or daemon.

Jerimey Perry I don't believe Jon will die (again). In fact I think no more Starks will die, that has been their fate for 7 seasons. The next generation will be wiser, smarter and initiate a dream of spring. It would be highly anticlimatic if Jon simply dies, then why all the fuss about his parentage and him being the secret heir to the throne? I truly think he will get crownded alongside with Sansa, but the political structure of the country will change.

Feuerhexe I hope he doesn't. Like I said he is my favorite. But being resurrected I think he has to die. If he doesn't die in battle would he live forever and have to watch his friends and family die off around him? And ser allisters last words would be foreshadowing of him having to fight everyones battles forever. Jon's father would of been a great king by all accounts from everyone who know him. Jon would be a great king too, but like his father I just dont think he ever gets there even though I want nothing more in the story than him to be king. But Jon being as selfless as he is, he sacrifices himself for the greater good of the world. Hopefully I'm wrong. I dont think Westeros turns to be a democracy or the iron throne doesnt get destroyed. I think Westeros is ruled like it is at the start where the great houses of each kingdom rule their lands and keep the kings justice, but I do think they begin making lives better for everyone, like the renaissance. Education and opportunity for all that want it and are willing to work for it. Honestly I dont think much changes in the government except the scheming and backstabbing.

Why all the fuss about his percentage, is exactly why Sansa will be Queen. Because once both Dany and Jon die, with no targaryens left alive, she becomes the heir to the throne ;) George RR Martin clearly wont make the end so simple hehe. And why I think he will die, its also because he hanged five people, and remember how many characters died the same way they killed other players. For exemple, olenna poisons Joffrey, she dies poisoned. Then, Eddard beheads a deserter, he ends up beheaded. Walder is responsible for Catelyn getting her throat cut, he dies the same way. Etc etc. Cersei mentionned she wished that she had hanged Olenna at the walls of King

arinsabrina I know it's crazy long, but I wanted to do this properly. My goal was not to make it longer than an hour lol

Naturegirl121 Yep Sansa pretends to be a bastard in the books , probably to make her more sympathetic towards Jon at the end. Also she was betrothed to a prince who was in fact a bastard while she might end up with a bastard who in fact is a prince hehe

Iruumie Yes the clues are there. Whether they are really endgame or not, I just wanted to show that this theory does have a solid foundation and it's not delusional ;)

squashedeyeball Hey Squishi! I'm sorry for not doing a Vikings video last week. I had technical difficulties, but this week hopefully. I'm prepared to get slaughtered for doing this video ;) no really I had to do this because Jon/Sansa believers get so much shit. Ironically from a group of fans who think the story will end with J and D ruling together happily ever after and they will even have a baby. So I tried to work against that ;) The Jonsa fandom is so creative and intelligent. Tumblr is full of their amazing metas. Thank you again !

Feuerhexe Hello :) It's always great to see the content you post, not matter what it is :) Yes,, the Dany fans can be extreme... Every time someone calls her for her deeds, they would say something like "At least she is still the most kind, caring, loving, strong and sweet character on the show! YAS KWIN, YOU SON OF A B****!" And you're right, a Jon+Dany "happily ever after" plot is just... Bah. They don't know each other. They are potentially rivals. Dany showed more than enough madness and cruelty for Jon's liking... Coming to think about it, then the letters might stand for: J+S, "Join struggle". Struggling with reality, but doing it together. J+D, "Joint difficulties".Trying to work together, but there are so much difficulties due to many disagreements. Yeah, this is lame lol But... It's better than (*Dany voice mode on*): J+S, "Just, soooo (no)" J+D, "Just do (it)!!" (Yuk ;) Well, I'll ship Dany with Rollo, if her fans would allow me. He would not care too much for her nonsense about her throne... But he will not protest too much when she'll talk about it either (He'll be sleeping, mainly).

squashedeyeball Lol I tried not to focus on Daenerys too much but I had to a little since Jon and her are believed to be canon at the moment. Rollo/Daenerys hmmm I could see it lol oh man I miss him

Feuerhexe Oh I think that we will see him soon enough ;) If not in 5a, then in 5b. Then it will be confirmed whether or not Gisla tattooed her name on his forehead :)

squashedeyeball Oh btw season 5 does have 20 episodes, doesn't it? I saw a few people say it will end next week. But that's just the mid season finale, right?

Jon is the motherless child and Arya and Sansa will protect him. Also Sansa doesn't have to correct anything because Cat didn't really do anything wrong. Nobody in her position would have just accepted her husband's bastard, it was not expected of her.

nope I think they're making that very clear this season. Having a claim and actually being a good ruler are two different things.

Jennifer Thanks, I gave myself hope, too ;)

Haha I love those intellectual guys ;)

Dear Feurhexe, As a long time Sansa fan, I have always wanted her to survive the GOT and have a happy ending. When the Got Academy posted the Queen Sansa theory, my expectation grew even higher cos they made so much sense. Their key point is that magic has to die at the end of the story and there for gone both Jon and Daenerys while the most realistic character, our beloved queen Sansa, will be the one left on the throne, either it is still the iron throne or something else. With that being said, you have raised my hope even higher than those guys. As much as I want Jon to die a heroic and epic death, he ending up alive and marrying Sansa sounds even better. However, I am afraid that we are kinda reaching here. The show has become quite dumb down and predictable now. There is no more edgy plot twist or shocking revelation anymore. And all the logic, history, foreshadowing or subtle hints that you found, no matter how sound, are just nothing compare to that boatsex thingy. That boatsex is like Winterfell, Casterly Rock, the Eyrie and the Red Keep combined that we just cannot conquer it matter how much we try. It is there for a reason and the reason is that the show runner want Jon and Dany to happen. A lot of your arguments were based on the assumption that they are actually smart and know what they are doing. As sad as it may seem, I don't think that this is the case. This ship may be a lost cause but I will be with it until the end.

Thanh Khiết Trần I think you're making that 10 second sex scene without any trace of emotions way more important than it is. Sex doesn't equal love or more importantly a logical endgame. The writers probably wanted to make the parentage reveal extra creepy and awkward, so they did this crosscut, to show how doomed it is. Jon/Daenerys makes no sense once R+L=J is out since they are both legitmate Targaryens. Plus Jon seemed zero interested the whole time. He didn't even look back at her when he left Dragonstone. I also don't think Jon will die yet again, they didn't make him the secret heir to the throne just to kill him last minute. It doesn't matter what the showrunners want. They're telling GRRM's story.

Feuerhexe: argh, you raised my expectation once again. It would be so good if what you said turns out to be true. Still I think the biggest hurdle is still the showrunners, they have screwed up Got too much that now I am skeptical in whatever they are doing. I stopped enjoying the show since season 5 and the only thing that keeps me going on is to see queen Sansan in the end.

me too!!

I hope we get something like this in season 8. Ghost is supposed to have some great scenes. Too bad they pump most of their budget into dragons.

Thank you very much! Yeah it always puzzles me why people think that GRRM - known for twists and going against predictable cliché tropes - would end this with a predictable cliché trope. Especially since J/D makes no sense politically after R+L=J comes out. Also: "A Dream of Spring" combined with book quotes like "Dragons plant no trees". How are the Targaryens supposed to bring spring? And why the hell yet another Targaryen reign. Makes no sense. GRRM also clearly portrayed the Targaryens as problematic race whose generation long incest led to their downfall. He even described the dragons as nuclear weapons. He knows his problematic protagonists and what their purpose is. Jon/Sansa is kind of a classic "knight in shining armor and his princess" story but with a completely new perspective/storytelling/narrative. What each of them has been through, what happened when they got back together and gave each other strength, what happened when they combined their strength, learnt to be a team. And we know what Jon wanted all his life is to be a Stark. He always wanted to be Jon Stark, and I highly doubt he would be happy being Aegon Targaryen (nobody will call him that, let's be honest).

The Jon and Dany thing is wayyyy to clean. That's where this video won me over at. It open my eyes to see that it was too obvious for GOT and much too clean for HBO. If they do end up taking that route it will be a sure sign that everyone is fucked! Not only will that signify the end of one or both of them, it means an entire shit storm is coming. Pay attention to the signs ....when clean justice happens everything goes to shit. The return of the Martells for revenge, Robs love for the Common women...Neds trip to the West...it all went south.

@@Ladybug-no9sc Agreed. I was pretty pissed with the previous season. It was purely fan service, and a disgrace to GRRM's work.

@@phantomwaltz Exactly. They seen what happen when they steered too far of the source material when they made the Dorne season. They made them look weak & they defiantly weren't weak ppl. Desaster...they would be stupid to do that again which is why if it does happen we can expect the worst possible outcome. Wouldn't last more the an episode or two.

Regardless of what is canon at the moment or not, things won't stay that way as we know from GoT. There are way too many things that are still bount to blow up, the parentage reveal being one of them. I don't think Jon has any romantic feelings for Daenerys, It was very one-sided and nothing was developed on screen. The scripts are no evidence either since they were written from the audience's POV meaning it's what D&D want us to think when we see the scene which doesn't mean it's what the scenes really show. If they had wanted to show a believable romance they would have done it. If we have to read scripts to understand what is really happening then something's not quite right. Jon and Daenerys are way too incompatible to be endgame, also as you say it's not GRRM. They were set up as foils for a reason. And yes the promo is very telling as well. It's a continuation of season 7 really, her looking infatuated, him looking rather miserable and never looking at her. But it's still enough to lead the general audience into a certain misleading direction. The more they promote something, the less likely it is to happen.

@@Feuerhexe82 well the Jonerys fans are making their own edit posters because these ones are...well...haha. Let´s wait for the new season and see. Thanks for the great video!

Exactly, it's really not far fetched at all, imo. It's way more likely than many other "in your face" scenarios actually.

doberbitch You're welcome :)

let's hope so, phew

Thank you very much :)

Prof. Cecily Cogsworth Thank you :) Yeah it's always difficult with RU-vid and music. Showing scenes can already be tricky, but usually it works out with GoT. I'm not a huge fan of background music, unless it's very subtle. It tends to distract me. Thank you again!

harkkoen You're right. That's also featured in the beautiful parallels artwork that Twitter user violent_dawn made. But I couldn't use them all ;)

That's nice to know and you put a great effort into this video so I should of said no matter how it turns out awesome job with this video and i hope this does happen with Jon and Sansa because GOT likes to pull the rug out from under ya and when the show started no one would of guessed this 2 together.

harkkoen Exactly, it would be a huge wonderful twist that also makes tons of sense.

Vera Aurelis You never watched GoT? Ah you should, at least the first four seasons. Yes cousin marriage is perfectly normal in Westeros. However many think that Jon and Sansa grew up as siblings and it would be gross, but they didn't actually. The Jonsa blogs on Tumblr are the most intelligent blogs ever. It would be impossible to put everything into one video, people find new potential hints and foreshadowings almost every day. But these are kind of the major clues.

Feuerhexe Thank you for the suggestion, I did consider it but right now I have a lot of real life responsibilities to take care of so I don’t want to invest too much time on a series, especially one with as many seasons as GOT. It’s alright though, reading the metas gives me most of what I should know! The only downside is that I am probably more biased towards Jonsa now, but it’s not like I’m gonna be debating with other shippers or anything, so it doesn’t matter lol. Yes, you Jonsa creators write about everything from costumes to book passages to directing choices! Of course I know some of the theories might be just wishful thinking, but hey, that’s the fun of fandom! Doesn’t matter if the couple you ship has story parallels or the actors/actresses just look good together. In Jonsa’s case though, they really had the best of both. Just made me sad that some other fans dismiss it as a “crack ship” when it’s really so far from one (and even if one comes across a real crack ship, it’s still very rude to stick your nose into their corner of the fandom!) I am glad that you put forth a well worded theory out there. May season 8 be ever in our favor!

Vera Aurelis Haha I understand, I have way too many shows on list it's ridiculous. I don't really take this "crack ship" mantra seriously, I never understood it and frankly I think it just shows people's insecurity. It's sad, but that's the GoT fandom nowadays. Bullying is a big part of it.

cheezal2 Yeah I heard that theory before. Maybe the final scene of the series will be Sam finishing writing the story. Kind of Lord of the Rings style

Dizzy Dayz Thanks :)

I think Jon and Sansa might be something like a foil to Cersei/Jaime indeed. They're like the positive non-toxic version, and also they're not brother and sister. Also cousin marriage is not incest in Westeros.

+Feuerhexe I got wat u r saying. wat I m trying to say is, if jon n sansa r indeed going to be paired, it's still going to kinda give a incest vibe, which was kinda made prominent in the 1st episode itself. kinda justifying their relationship in the end.

Sagish Preman Oh for sure.

lily_17 I live for Ned/Cat/Jon/Sansa parallels ;) Thank you and you're welcome :)

HelloLove If the writers had bothered to make any serious, romantic case for Jon/Dany, maybe it would look different (though not really since they make no political sense). But he looked zero interested the entire time and then a rushed sex scene just to cross cut with the parentage reveal to foreshadow drama. When did Jon ever look at Dany the way he looks at Sansa? When did he reveal personal stuff. When did they bond? A magical baby would actually just complete the Ned/Cat 2.0 puzzle. Jon/Sansa raising a bastard lol

Feuerhexe - Also, I find it interesting that Davos is one of the few to notice Jon “looking” at Dany & Jon looking at her (heart) breast. Not her eyes, or her lips, but her breast. :-/ I think something as small as this insinuates that even if Jon is attracted to Dany, it’s no more than shallow interest, at best.

HelloLove Lol the writing of this so-called epic ultimate love-story was so poor. I don't buy it, least of all from Jon's side if I never see any signs from him. Least of all if other characters have to tell the audience that he's allegedly in love. And to this day I fail to see any "longing looks". I saw his pretty back when he couldn't leave Dragonstone fast enough. Lol

Disappointed 90's Kid Aaahhh I don't know, it's so easy with them. They're basically shipping themselves. Lol Thanks

You're welcome and thank YOU for making this...

My Jolly Sailor Bold That is enough, I'm gonna block you. You insult people harshly and don't engage in any discussions.

No. It's 100% clear that Jonsa will never happen. Sophie Turner has even confirmed it herself. Stop being so delusional!

Sophie Turner has not confirmed it. And anyway, you think actors or showrunners just run around shouting plans for the show from the rooftops? I would appreciate it if you stop calling people delusional. There is no reason to be disrespectful. I presented an hour long video with possible clues and foreshadowing. People can discuss in a respectful manner.

Actually, she has. Or everything you don't like to know lies? Lol! I've given up trying to discuss with people in a respectful manner.

MadamPluto Could you please point me to your source?

K Rob :))

Ruth Sophia His life is full of red-heads... Cat, Ros, Ygritte, Melisandre, Tormund, Sansa ... Hmm ;)

You forgot about Val that has similar her to Dany, or perhaps you didn't read the books.

Daenerys can fight all she wants, won't help her lol

crazeegrlproductions Give it to us !! :)

Feuerhexe oh I will put the meta in the Twitter chat. It's all in LF's chaos is a ladder speech and the following scene.

Franziska Zwink Yes, but I also think it would be totally unexpected, so just the right outcome for a story like GoT/ASOIAF

Thank you. I really appreciate people watching such a long video especially when they were never familiar with this theory :) Oh definitely thinking about another theory video, thanks :)