Knockback Stacking: A Closer Look 

Ya know, I was aware of your correction in the early stages of making this video, but at some point I guess I forgot to put it in 😅 thank you, though! And yea I guess this would be true for the invisible ceiling glitch, as well

I had the same minor gripe, but otherwise a very informative video on a very underdiscussed topic

Ah thanks i was just about to see if you could reset someones knockback to the initial with something like a jab and send them flying

The mechanic as it appears in this video and in Melee does not work in Ultimate. Starting in Brawl and every game since, the biggest change is that attacks from the same source can no longer stack their knockbacks. This is why Ganon autocancel dair can't pillar combo. In addition, if knockback stacking occurs, the hitstun the victim receives is determined from the time of the first attack connecting, drastically reducing followup combos even when it does happen, such as a projectile (which counts as a separate source) and melee attack stacking. The only place where stacking takes effect in a meaningful and useful way in more recent titles are in combo finishers in doubles or involving projectiles, such as samus's near-full charge shot, Robin's arcthunder dair horizontal kill, Gordos, or thrown projectiles like Peach's turnips or Snake's grenades.

2+2 is 4 minus one that's 3 quick Marths

So just like the invisible ceiling glitch (which resets your y-knockback to 0), you keep the same amount of hitstun, even with reduced knockback. I'm....not really sure why; I guess the game checks what your knockback WOULD HAVE been, and gives you histun based on that?

@@banddgames I think it's because hitstun is calculated based on the move itself, regardless of the knockback applied.

why doesn’t-this comment should have one million billion upvotes

Yes! DIing will change your knockback angle, which changes your X/Y component lengths.

It’s added to the previous combined knockback. So yeah, you can make a arbitrarily long chain of knockback stacked moves.

It will check Marth's current vector at the time of the second hit. So realistically, Marth will have slightly less than 139 KB by the time Falco b-airs him. And there is no maximum timer. After 10 frames, any successive hit will knockback stack. Of course, knockback velocity decreases every frame, so you COULD get hit ~200 frames later and it will still technically count as knockback stacking, but after that amount of time you will basically not have any more knockback from the first hit, so it won't really make a difference. Does that help clarify?

@@banddgames Yep that makes sense!

If double shine does send farther away, it’s only because they’ve started their launch before getting hit again. There would be no KB stacking if it’s less than 10 frames.

@@banddgames so why does shine upsmash stack?

@@broor are you talking about the end of this video? I didn’t do the frame by frames, but for the first clip, the up smash hits on frame 10, so they stack together and Marth dies. Then for the second clip, I upsmashed 1 frame earlier, hitting on frame 9, so they don’t stack and Marth doesn’t die.

My man's never played a good guilty gear game

I do agree that Melee’s combo system could be the GOAT, but you’re definitely underselling non-platform fighters. Even as a newbie, I know that things like positioning, counter-hits, resources, and sometimes combo breakers are all factors in what combo route you take.

There are plenty of improvised combos in traditional fighting games. Don't talk shit about things you don't understand.

@@DJFracusThey all look boring if we’re being honest. Neutral game js the most impressive part in FGC

@@TheBeggies95 bro replied to a 2 year old comment just to post an awful take about how combos "all look", which is entirely subjective, generalizing hundreds of games, and likely means you're just a spectator, and has no idea what he's talking about it is very hard to make statements that apply to every fighting game ever made

This is a great resource for attack angles and attack damage: ikneedata.com/calculator.html

I think Falco benefits a lot from this in the floaty matchup, in particular. Bones showcased a few situations where knockback stacking leads to "early" kills on floaties: twitter.com/Bones0toDeath/status/1495802259497701377

@@banddgames thanks!

I wrote these two articles a while ago, they might be useful to you. I'm currently writing a third one focusing on different applications of the mechanic for Falco, including a bunch of character specific stuff. churchofsp.netlify.app/post/knockback-stacking-part-1-vector-addition-and-falco/ churchofsp.netlify.app/post/knockback-stacking-part-2-stack-harder/

@@sp99melee yo sick man. Yeah this seems like really good info for Falco.

@@sp99melee Lol I just read those before coming here. Has the third one been released yet?