I cannot understand why people feel the need to FORCE a standard onto indie comics. That's nonesense. The spirit of indie comics is that you can do anything you damn well please. The idea a standard should be enforced makes you a publisher, not indie, not underground, not ALT. It's literally in the name "Independent". Not everyone is trying to inspire others or make the next JJK or OP or DBZ. Some just wanna write about stupid goofy things or insanely personal things to be able to voice fears or concerns or mourn or celebrate obscure things in their own life. They should have the freedom to do that without people like Koffee coming for them and calling their work trash and zombie food. Koffee is the epitome of "holier than thou" and cannot take any criticism or genuine good-willed critique. I understand he might want things to be better, but as long as his message comes along side hatred and disdain for certain groups of people, his words have zero weight and amount to noise and nothing more. I don't care where you are from, calling people trash, r-slurs, eunichs, and saying austics are lazy-assholes is never an acceptable way to talk about your colleagues, all things he does in one of his recent videos. We all wanna see standards, how about we start with the way we treat each other?
Hey, thanks for weighing in, Crumbs! My personal goal is to create work that can stand on a global standard. I want to find out exactly what it takes to create that level of work. And be taken seriously as a professional artist. I also have to push myself as a matter of survival and to make enough raise a family one day. So I agree with much of Koffee’s stance in general, but he tends to go astray when he badmouths other creators. I’ve actually told him that this can create a lot of enmity in fellow creators and make it far more difficult to get his point across. But if there wasn’t SOME validity to what he is saying, people could easily dismiss his speeches as rambling at the wind, and ignore him.
@@TheComiKen A lot of people are dismissing him, probably as many as agree with him. Also, just because it is gaining support, doesn't make it right. Some of the worst people in history had entire armies behind them. Additionally, I have zero problem with some folks wanting to hold themselves or a circle of friends to a higher standard, especially if you goal is supporting a family. In many instances, like we saw in Bakuman, that can be really helpful! Doujinshi circles exist for a reason. Never did I say that was bad. My point was that forcing others into it, or mocking others for not following it is not ok. He literally called people r-slurs Ken. He literally called autistic people "lazy" for not just rising above it. I have a copy of it, that is the message he is putting out there. "Align with me or you're garbage unworthy scum." You wanna endorse a man who talks to people like that?
@@ArtCrumbs Funny enough I actually watched the video where he said JJK takes too much from Yu yu Yu haka show and bleach and there's no reflection of reality He also said one piece also doesn't reflect reality and nobody wants to look like luffy
The reality of the situation is that at the end of the day: "standards" don't matter. Quality is subjective, it's all about Brand and Marketing. A "high standard" comic will LOSE to a "low standard" comic because the "low standard" comic has better branding & marketing strategies.
I think Koffee is the case of good message wrong messenger. I agree with his stances on having standards and what not but not with his criticism of certain ppl especially when those ppl are proven and he’s isn’t. So meritocracy comes into play when it comes to him and his critiques. But my biggest issue and problem I’ve seen in this indie comic space is there’s a lot of underachieving and ppl not understanding the business of comics.
Yeah, I'd say his critiques would hold more weight if he himself had a proven track record (i.e. sales). But being in South Africa might make that difficult.
I think Muzi is an example of simply bad message. I don’t put as much consideration to the messenger, because I wish to be objective. I think his arguments are largely bad and he may say a couple things worth considering, at times, MAYBE. However, his message overall is detached from reality and running on emotions and biases. The indie space is for those who generally don’t won’t to adhere to the traditional “business of comics”. That is why indies existed in the first place. To try to create some form of governance is antithetical to the space as it was intended to be, whether that be art style, production schedule, or themes. Coupled in with his hit pieces and attacks, Muzi isn’t it bro. Idk why ppl want to cap for that man so badly. He’s been using pushback against him to gain empathy as if he’s being persecuted when people refute or rebuttal him. It’s all starting to sound like some form of weird makeshift religious cult at this point. Oh, and of course he wants your money too. Lol
Koffee is just another frustrated artist lashing out on social media. These companies are here to make money. Skills pay bills. To think a bunch of capitalists are sitting in a board room thinking about how they can make you feel “demoralized” is overly self absorbed and funny af. Koffee uses loaded language to project his insecurities and biases onto others. He blocks those who can refute his points (raising my hand). Dude put Image into the “Big 3” of comics. There is no “Big 3”, there is DC and Marvel, the “Big 2”. Instant credibility burn. But, the “emasculation of men” by the media is something that exists in the mind of the insecure who may benefit from therapy. Superhero stories were not always hyper masculine. There was a whole era where they were light hearted and comical (Silver Age Batman anyone?) And even if it was a thing, how can anyone emasculate you? Your validation as a man should be internal first and foremost based on your lived experiences. Unless you commit to living vicariously through media. Koffee does little for me on an intellectual level. You are a talented artist. Good luck to you.
Preciate your thoughts on the subject! On the 'demoralization' aspect, it tends to happen more with media you are exposed to as a child or teen . When you're grown you can choose what you want to consume.
Superheroes are still superheroes. Shonen is still Shonen. Not much has changed. If you walk into a B&N or a comic shop you’ll see superheroes largely as they’ve always existed. And if they DID change, that’s life. Life changes and progresses. Capitalists follow analytics and cater to audiences accordingly. If they need to adjust then they adjust. They want to make money, and they see the shift in population and market. I theorize that part of the decline of superhero comics (which it historically fluctuates anyways) is because there was an over saturation of the same thing. It was all masculine men striking dynamic poses. Arguably the most popular superhero ever, Spider-Man, deviated from that. Miles Morales deviated from that. They were teens, relatable, different, and more “everyday” looking. Just like a lot of Shonen characters. Koffee knows so little about the history of the space that he didn’t even recognize (until I commented) that the “dark Shonen” titles are just a branch off of a prominent mangaka named Go Nagai. Devilman is the root for most of the “dark Shonen” you see. It inspired Berserk, as he was Muira’s favorite mangaka. Then we lead into Bleach, Chainsawman , JJK, and Demon Slayer. Spirits, demons and yokai are not new tropes at all. We could chat about this at length. A lot of ppl open their mouths on the internet and have no idea what they’re talking about. And they can build a following doing so. Which is fine, blind lead the blind.
Apologies for the length of the messages. Muzi has hours of spewing nonsense, so it can be a lot to unpack. Ultimately, he has turned the recent attention he’s received into a marketing strategy. He reminds me of an off brand Eric July. Ride the tails of the big names, convince you that your personal issues are a result of them, and then offer you an alternative that he can profit from. It’s all see through imo, but people can allow themselves to be finessed as much as they desire.
1) We need evidence and context behind your claim. 2) We need to analyze the sample size. I highly doubt these stories make up a significant percentage of mainstream publications. 3) Japan has had this kind of representation for a while. I believe Princess Knight by Osamu Tezuka received pushback in the US for its handling of perceived gender norms. Then you advance to titles like Stop! Hibari Kun!, Banana Fish, and Princess Jellyfish from the 80-early 2000s that also deal with these topics. 4) We have to establish there is something wrong with these topics in the first place, barring obvious legal restrictions and minor portrayal. Do remember, much of mainstream “traditional” media depicted minors in a romantic relationship, especially for coming of age. Or they showed displays of man to woman affection (kissing, women love interests, etc) in media deemed for kids or general audiences. I find it interesting that “think about the kids” argument comes up only at certain times. But I digress… 5) The country doesn’t have a good track record for human rights. It’s just what it is. This track record didn’t end at emancipation. You have reconstruction, J Crow, segregation, 80/90s war on x,y,z”, etc etc. It’s apparent the world over as other countries haven’t forgotten things done. Nor should they. We shouldn’t either if we wish to do better. For example, there are places in Japan that Americans can’t patronize or get service at. Why? Well, they remember the bombs. Also, there are manga titles that don’t paint us well. Captain Ken by Tezuka, Spriggan, and Akira all come to mind for being harsh critiques on historical practices. It’s a hard truth, but we should be remorseful and do better, which some don’t wish to be and enjoy the current structure for their benefit, ego or pride in not admitting guilt. But we should be accountable. That’s how we start to improve.
Yeah. Koffee does have good strong points here and there. I don't particularly like his delivery of his message, but I can understand its necessity as to why he does it. Sometimes, saying things nicely doesn't get people to actually listen to you. Also, growing up in Johannesburg,South Africa, as a Zulu, makes you rough around the edges, and you need to have a sharp tongue to avoid being walked all over. This is just my perspective as a Sotho guy who lives in the same city as Koffee.
Wow I didn't know you lived in the same city maybe you might bump into the dude someday. Although it appears coffee doesn't seem to like the fact that he is black from the way he keeps complaining about how there are black people in apple black
@TheComiKen , In all honesty, both Johannesburg and Cape Town in South Africa offer the opportunities and infrastructure necessary for success in the comics and creative industries. We aren't that different from your typical American city (add the corruption and schedule city blackouts). Take Warren Louw, a local artist, is a prime example of thriving in this environment, and he isn't the only one. Our comic industry, although small and cottage-style, gives a unique chance for ambitious and business-savvy comic artists to establish major publishing houses similar to Marvel and DC. Unfortunately, Koffee (Muzi) doesn't see this as an opportunity.
@kingj9664 it honestly makes me sad cause 75 to 80% of our population here is black. No culture is perfect, but Koffee makes it sound like we're living in a jungle
I may be the “troll” Muzi was referring to. I say that because he does bring me up and what I say in videos. The context of what he referred to was to speak to another commenter, not Muzi. If he would point to the specific instance I could offer a refute easily enough. From my memory, it was an inside joke/banter (between me and the guy, not involving Muzi), because the guy got defensive when I refuted his point. I said something to the effect of “I’m trolling you” aka “banter” aka “pulling your leg” aka “talking smack”. But I whole heartedly believed in what was said. I didn’t want him to feel like he was being picked on, as it was just discourse and he got defensive. I’m not a bully. Yes I do play “devils advocate” sometimes. But when someone wants to get to a strong conclusion, it would be wise to play the counter or to cross reference. Muzi blocked me because I was cooking his points and he didn’t like the support it received. He wants to create an echo chamber. He himself asking those who disagree (including those he interviews), “why are you here”? Dude, because 1) you are commenting on a space they operate in. 2) because you mentioned some of them by NAME lol. And then he proceeds to block ppl. Idk why he blocked everyone, but anyone with some sense knows I’m not a troll. I’ll cook your points, and not you. Muzi is the troll fr.
Or at least one of the ones who could or would voice it. Of course others did/do too. Trying to disparage growing artists, some of which are kids, is just completely uncalled for. Dude is like 30 doing this. To take such offense that a cartoon doesn’t inspire you, as a grown man, is quite unusual. And I say that as fan of the medium. But hey, I’m not upset. I just contribute what I can. Be well. Hope the best for you.
Saw your interview with Muzi. I’ll TRY to make this comment a tad shorter. That man just talks a lot. But as far as those he’s targeted, Whyt Manga and Fred in particular, he can’t make a case with no defense. What kind of trial operates that way? It’s absurd. I’m sure Whyt and Fred could make a counter to his claim, but they seemingly haven’t nor should they have to. Fred can’t MAKE Whyt do anything. How could he? MAYBE Fred persuaded Whyt or presented him an idea, but Whyt chose what he did. Muzi is trying to assert manipulation but we don’t have evidence of that. Even if there were evidence a defense could offer COUNTER evidence. You were right to call it what it is, speculation. Muzi operates on emotion and what he wants it to be for his own narrative. Of course he wants you to pay for “insider info” lol. He creates his conclusions based on emotion and bias.
For me sometimes the guy does have a point but the problem is he starts to overcook and burn his food or his message sometimes. Also for me he can be kind of egotistical to hypocritical, Like if you criticize his book bloody hell the same way he criticizes others he'll basically call you a zombie hunchback and say you don't understand because you haven't gone through trauma. It's egotistical side comes from when he's bad mouthing other creators or other indie companies like Shine comics and Slingshot to the point where it feels like he's just making up stuff about the people working there. But anyway this was a pretty fascinating video dude and it's weird to see someone compliment Deedee mark cause so far I just see people calling his work a rip-off of chainsaw man and JJK it kinda is but I've still found some kind of interest in it. Anyway good video and your book Looks really cool where exactly can I read it
Yeah, overcook is a good word for it. He tends to add too much speculation on other creators which can muddle his points. Links to read Air-Rider are in the description, mayn! Thanks for taking a look.🙏
@@TheComiKen Wow man thanks for the comment and I'll definitely give it a shot although not everything on webtoons is basically an ezaki target towards women. There are plenty of great stories out there like ordeal, Black sun, helper, And Jupiter man. Funny that you mentioned Taylor because I'm pretty sure coffee had beef with him a while and I don't think he believes Tyler is on that business
Someone listening to Muzi does not validate his arguments. Politicians follow each other’s speeches and they disagree. There have been people who have DM’d him and even recorded convos with him he chose not to air. It’s on their channel. If we were all on Avatar, dude would be a reality bender. He makes stuff up. Sorry for the lengthy messages. Just a lot is said by the guy. At least it helps engagement on your part. Be well.
You’re not wrong lol. I like that perspective. I’ll listen to just about anybody. I’ll even give a sincere ear to the argument. I just don’t really care for bullies or those who take aim at others unprovoked. I do have to understand my principles aren’t always shared. Dude took aim at some people I know. But I’m all for keeping focused on the argument and not getting overly absorbed. Dude made it about something other than the argument. Oh well… my guys aren’t worried about him. So I’m going to pull back from this drama.
It's crazy how similar our mindsets are. I also spent most of my adult life working hard labor jobs and factory jobs while pursuing art. I'd actually feel more comfortable if the art industry had more of Koffees attitude because like you said, in the world we come from that's how shit gets done and gets better. The online art community is whinny, lost, catty and conniving for the most part. I agree with a lot of Koffees points. Like you mentioned, these online artists want "Participation trophies". They want to be congratulated just for finishing something because sadly, that's how low the bar is these days. Doesn't matter if it's a good story or not. They create for likes. Not for longevity and not in the pursuit of making something with the potential of being perennial.
Thanks for weighing in! "Whiny and conniving" is pretty accurate at times lol. I prefer to face people open handed. I think in a competitive industry, the fans ultimately win. I'll discuss more on this topic in the future!
@@TheComiKen At the end of the day that’s all that matters. But I feel like social media has changed the game in the sense that people buy into the brand and personality with the product - in this case comics - being an accessory that allows devoted followers to interact with you. Quality of the product comes second. It’s more about being in the club. But why can’t we have both? Why cant artists hold themselves to the old standards? That’s what I’m trying to accomplish atleast lol. I enjoyed your talk with Koffee! Definitely going to check out your podcast!
@@codeninja100 Exactly! That's what I'm trying to aim for. Manga creators in Japan have the benefit of publisher promotion, to the extent that we don't even know what some of them look like! I wasn't aiming to start a channel, but this is the way to go for now.
Koffee is in trouble of becoming the monster he wishes to slay. I do wish him luck, but I stopped listening to him months ago due to his incredibly small view of art and his goal or lack there of, yet attempting to come off as an authority in the industry. Once you drop the message (which I agree with), that is enough, but it seems to me he's more interested in being a RU-vid commentary on the state of comics/manga rather than producing and publishing comics.
That's kind of the vibe I get from him to. Especially how he talks about how stories should reflect reality but yet when you read histories there is no extraption of reality and he'll write off series like one piece and radiant and say they have no extractions from reality because he couldn't get into the art but anyone who's ever rent a series knows that's not true
Honestly Koffee is far to negative in his view of the industry and after watching several of his videos it feels like he more so has a personal vendetta with his circumstances and the industry
@@TheComiKen I can understand that.. I’ve been making art a long time and I could tell at a glance since I was a child that Saturday AM was not going anywhere. The issue is they lack mass appeal and capital. Regardless, I think he’s really overlooking many of the indie successes on kickstarter and indie gogo. Or even earlier self publications like Ayas Demon
@@ultimamateria1604 Yeah, I've seen tons of webcomics do well on kickstarter and even get officially published. I think it's the indie manga side that has more trouble because it's unfavorably compared to japanese manga. My only problem with Sat AM is the diversity push over quality of story. Clock Striker's 1st chapter is really good, so I find it unnecessary.
@@TheComiKen The main problem we have is just trying to hard to fall under a branch of manga. In the end, we’re just making sequential stories and all of the titles we give to them hold them back.
Just watched your interview with Koffee along with this one, so thanks to him I get to know you. Truth is there's still so much value in watching him, particularly with the demoralization and mindless consumption issues (all in all has more to do with the effects of modern consumerism) also gave me some thoughts about healthy masculinity due to his contrasting ways of handling things than normal. In particular, artists tend become a bit passive in nature and a lot of frustration sink deep down to unawareness with "no one" to relate . For that I always enjoy watching Koffee from time to time, he did change quite a bit of his opinions comparing to earlier videos of his. So there's growth, and growth is all we need. Oh and thanks for being so leveled and kind during the interview too.
No dude I'll figure out a few more advise that Is toxic masculinity, I also don't buy all that demoralization and entertainment all that just seems like an exaggeration
@@cyberpunklover161 No worries on that.👍 You don't have to take my word for it. Just consult your own life experience. Do you feel generally motivated and ready to go each day or do you tend to fall more into vices? (like drugs, videogames, alcohol, etc.) Start there.
Hey just wanted to say that this was a great video. You gave me words of encouragement about my manga not to long ago. But you've gained a sub from me because i like when people who speak on things in ways that "rub" people the wrong way but thier perspective holds alot of truth. Now ive said that koffee does use some strong verbiage 😂 but his truth is entertaining. Im checking out more of your videos but you and koffee are different sides of the same coin, imo.
I am a little suspicious of "The Rules" in manga. It's Right to Left because reading orientation is such in Japan. Colour vs black and white is more a publisher frugality and insane deadlines mangaka keep in Japan
Just discovered your channel about a week ago and got the free comics. I haven't gotten a chance to read them but I'll try and get to them asap. After that, i'll gladly give you feedback
I do support his message of criticising media that turn men into subservient slaves like with that anime that came out where the lead male protagonist has to submit to women. Even me, a woman, hates that premise and the emasculation of men everywhere. I wish he would take a breather before recording his videos because it seems like he's letting out raw emotions rather than rationalise them first. And why does he insist on dividing manga by country of origin? I don't get it. 🤔
Thanks for watching! Koffee's rants could be his marketing style. Definitely higher entertainment value lol. I think publishers in general divide manga by country of origin to classify them.
I think in koffee’s videos there’s 1 truth and 99 bullshit, projection, frustration and aggression He’s too violent, dismissive, and just bad mouthed overall… I’m also working on a manga, we can read each other’s works Do you have discord maybe we can talk
