@Ian Haha, yeah, "pre production" in the US but production everywhere else. It is finally coming early next year though and I'm psyched to see more of them out in the wild!
@@James-ld1of yea but what about the NA Street Legal version that’s supposedly coming also? I wonder if thats part of the delay. Maybe something with the laws here.. They haven’t been too kind to ebikes so far loll Lets just leave it at that lol. Meanwhile everyone could be riding electric cars, bikes, and scooters to the store or around town depending on the weather and what you’re doing. Im surprised since the success of tesla, that there hasn’t been more EV cars made yet. Only just now are they starting to really come out mainstream..
Based on this video. I reckon the storm bee would be my pick. Bigger battery, more power, more speed, more range, cheaper. Plus the way you describe the plush storm b vs nimble freeride characteristics, I think the storm be a better match for me. I also like the more flexible user settings in the storm B. I think that is important to help tune the bike to your own preferences and terrain.
Fantastic video, mate! I chose the Surron Storm Bee because it was the only choice. And there was just one in the whole country (Mongolia). The local KTM dealer didn't have any KTM Freeride's for sale. I also tried the smaller Surron Light Bee but I'm a tall guy and it just didn't fit. The Storm Bee works well for me, it fits me perfectly I'm 187cm and 90kg (6'2" and 200lbs) and I'm not an aggressive rider (I'm 59 years old). I find the Storm Bee very fast and has a very responsive throttle. I don't experience the "lag and delay" you describe. I actually wish there was some lag and delay. Sport mode is insane and I only use it on roads. Never used "Turbo" but do use reverse a lot. Eco and rain are better for me and give more range. Traction control is brilliant for hill climbs. I concur that you need handguards/barkbusters. I bought KTM full wrap around handguards. They fit with minor modifications. I got a 220v charger with mine and can recharge in 2-3 hours from dead. But I hardly ever run it even close to dead. Most rides are 30-60 minutes and I'll use 10-50% of my charge. I paid $7200 for my prototype / pre-production model just over 1 year ago. I could get a Ultra Bee and a Storm Bee for the price of the KTM.
Which one are you going with? Surron Storm or KTM Freeride? Shop Aftermarket Parts Here: bit.ly/ECRParts Find Dealers with Electric Dirt Bikes For Sale at the ECR Marketplace: bit.ly/ECRMarketplace For more in-depth tests and reviews on the best electric motorcycles and dirt bikes, visit: ElectricCycleRider.com
The big problem I have with Sur is that their R&D isn't as good. Parts rub together, weak points are plentiful, parts are cheap, upgrades are mandatory (so far). KTM on the other hand is going to be an out of the box no upgrades needed kind of experience. Pay a little more, save a lot.
@@hutchdw77 It's pretty fun to consider. There are already some brands and skilled tinkerers doing some cool eMoto swaps with older ICE chassis. Kind of in line with my thought at 30:10 but that would be a pretty expensive experiment...
Great review! Here in Europe I can find a lightly used KTM for 9000€ (same price as the road-legal Storm Bee), but the Storm Bee feels like a next generation platform. It probably will need a suspension tune, but other than that I see no big downsides. Well, at least for the next few years until my skills improve and the road-legal Stark Varg comes out :)
Range is still a big differentiating factor, 16 miles on the storm bee and it went from 100% down too 30%. I'm sure EV's will solve that problem over time though, but for now..
@@GL0BETREKKER I concur. Buy a 2 stoke for now and give the EVs several year until they get all their shenanigans figured out. It’ll come one of these days
@@samsaasen4922 Too optimistic with several years only. It will be dozens of years if anytime at all (unless they start to use brain and figure out that providing electricity from hydrogen is way to go). Look where KTM get in 10 years? Basically nowhere regarding range, even the latest model is horrible. Plus both of them are useless as replacement for a bike, not because of range as that is getting manageable if you are in region where there are some options for charging. But because they do not have INTEGRATED CHARGER. No one on regular bike is having oil rafinery in their bag just to be able to drive somewhere. And so with KTM or Sur-Ron you must take that huge and heavy box with you? No, thanks and not even for half of the price....
do you think the difference in throttle response is due to the traction control on the storm? does the throttle change if you turn off the traction control?
Already have a Freeride and I am sure the suspension and build quality stock are far better. I did however just order a set of cone valve forks for mine and the shock is being re valved. We are riding fast east coast single track.
Love the light bee in the background 19:15 I'm really curious about the Ultra Bee. I love the size and weight of my Talaria, but wish it used more dirt bike components than MTB components (fork, brakes, rear shock etc). Hopefully it hits the states faster than the Storm Bee.
You're the man Tucker! I'm still obsessed with my Alta Redshift. I can't bring myself to get another electric MX bike yet. The Alta is just so good, IMO.
Another great review, thank you! And yes, please get your hands on an Ultra Bee and let us all know what the deal is! I would buy an Ultra Bee today if it was available in the US and lived up to claimed specs (while I wait for my Stark Varg to be delivered later in 2023).
Cool bikes, but range 😂. I spent Storm`s battery just in 40 minutes. And i think KTM somewhere close ..... You cant ride them half day, therefore i use petrol bike. But i have modified Surron XL and i very like electric power for short rides arround my home.
@The Processor The Alta is a bit bigger (especially when compared to the KTM), more powerful than both and has a bit better range. Better suspension. Heavier than the KTM but lighter than the Surron. Overall, more of a performance oriented and "racier" bike than both of these. Shame that it's not still available to buy!
With the Storm Bee my main worry would be Chinese quality. That's not a political statement just pragmatic anecdotal fact concerning their gas dirt bikes.
11.22.22 Tucker, great test rides. Questions: What about parts for the Storm? What about stiffer springs for the forks and shock? Do you think that some weight reduction could be gained somehow? Do you think more accessories will become available? Would like to see the Ultra test.
Great review. I'm quite intrigued by the whole electric motorcycle concept. Question: On either of those bikes, how are they at situations where you're at a dead stop and need to get the front up and over a log or ledge? With no clutch, that's got to be an issue. I'm assuming you also can not pivot turn one of these, for the same reason?
I haven't ridden either, but since the electric motors have all their torque available from 1rpm, I would think you should be able to get the front wheel up without issue.
I have the freeride E-XC, and I can confirm the throttle lag on the surron. I once rode a Surron lightbee, and there was some milliseconds of delay between the throttle input and wheel movement. For me, this is a big showstopper. Doing very slow technical stuff and some stunting, this delay makes it very hard to anticipate. The body and wrist movement needs to be exact with the rear wheel movement. KTM all the way!!
Freeride E has Formula brakes, not Brembo. I like them better than my gas KTMs (they are so crisp!) My other buddy with one thinks they are too quick acting and lack modulation. You think they aren't powerful enough. Three opposite impressions. :) Thanks for taking time to do the review. I'm waiting for the Ultra Bee. With a 21" front wheel and some power mods it might be the Freeride E killer. Fingers crossed!
Interesting the price is definitely nicer on the Storm Bee. Hopefully they'll have a street legal model, would be interested in a supermoto. Looks like the Storm Bee won't beat you up as bad as the Light Bee does. The rougher the terrain the more it beats the Light Bee up.
Would love to see a comparison of the Freeride EXC and the Ultra Bee. I know the Ultra has less power, so the Freeride is likely faster, but curious to see if it's close to keeping up on a trail ride.
@Dylan Brown For sure. The KTM comes stock with Maxxis Trialmaxx tires. I've run a few different tire combos on the Freeride, currently with a Michelin Starcross Medium on the front and Shinko 525 on the rear.
What a great review of both bikes. I expect a KTM to have some advantage due to their heritage. The Sur Rons in general (pre Storm) appeared smaller to me. Nice to see the new model appears to be normal sized in comp to the ICE bikes. Having added a Tesla to my fleet in the last few years has opened my eyes to other possibilities. I loved my Rekluse clutch on my YZF years ago, why not ditch the gear shift too via electric. Plus the lack of noise opens up riding possibilities. I am still amazed at how much I get away with in my Tesla because no one heard it ;-) Loved the tunability of the Sur Ron in all of the areas you mention. Something I wish Elon would let me have more control of. And the Turbo button (my likely a momentary BMS bypass) would be great fun for a pass. Your riding area looks beautiful. I am in the E Texas area, little to no rocks, little elevation change but decent single and fire road stuff the Storm looks great for. My riding wouldnt be race pace but still spirited. 20 miles or so single track can be a decent ride.
@CncObsession Appreciate that!! Great points you make too. Super nice to have these options and while neither of these are going to replace my gas bikes any time soon, they're great when range isn't an issue and noise is. 👍
Thanks for the awesome review. I would be really keen to hear what your base chassis settings are on the Storm Bee. E.g. compression, rebound, sag and tyre pressures. I have only had my Storm Bee a few weeks now, and it's my first dirtbike...some base settings from a more experienced rider would be great to see.
The key quote to me was, “feels like you’re riding on top of the bike (KTM) more than in the bike (SurRon). That’s the #1 thing for me no matter what kind of riding I’m doing from mtn biking to dirt biking. Lower centralized cockpit riding where you feel one with the bike is what I strive for.
I think you misinterpreted what he meant. The KTM is far more nimble, responsive, and aggressive. The reason the SurRon feels like you're in it, is because you're stuck. With the KTM, you can toss it around, it accelerates much faster, and the far superior suspension lets you blast through rough sections, where the soft suspension of the SurRon drags you down, bottoms out, and forces you to go slow.
I think he was referring to the ergonomics.my friend and I have identical bikes apart from an 18vs19 inch rear wheel and mine has lowered pegs and higher bars.mine feels like you sit in his feels like you sit on.
Great review…as always. Thank you. Our next move is to try our stick free ride forks on one of our electric motion bikes….definitely like the electric with the manual clutch. A bigger fork let’s you push through trails faster. I am sure we will have several hybrid bikes until we get our Stark delivered….the funny part is I have a new KTM 450 xcf 2023 that I haven’t even ridden yet….we have so much fun on the electric.
That's a good thing about the StormBee's price. Most people don't need to spend/invest the extra 2K because the bike will already do what they want and more. KTM for the more hard core rider is the better investment due to just a fork upgrade alone for stormbee, surron and talaria is $1,400-1,600 plus. Eats a big chunk out of the 2K price gap with just a fork upgrade.
To be fair i dont know one KTM that still runs stock suspension, everyone i know has has thrown truckloads of cash at kato suspenders to make them work, not talking e bikes though but the footage i see displays the same characteristics.
I am very curious to see how these 2 will match up vs the Zero FX. At this point the KTM cost what the FX cost.The FX has more power, is street legal, gets rebates and seems like the better choice. My guess is that FX would kill both of these bikes. Let's see a vs with the Zero FX in the mix! Keep up the great content.
I have the KTM E-XC and a zero FXS. The zero has a lot more power and torque. On a dragstrip, the FXS would win with ease, it's a real rocket'. But unfortunately, there is also some throttle delay on the Zero. this makes it unfit for stunting/slow technical rides. Thats why i have the supermoto version. I love the KTM, and I love the Zero FXS, but both for different reasons.
Thank you! All the information we wanted! I really like the drz and xr comparison. Coming from an xr200r to the freeride really makes me see some similarities in the sur Ron.
I love both of these bikes the storm be I like a little more in the reverse definitely can come in handy if you ride bike enough especially trail riding there is definitely some places you could use reverse for sure although in some of them places is also where you have a hard time getting traction in reverse on a bike I could just imagine how well the traction actually is in reverse but it can definitely come in handy I'm sure
Hey Tuck. I've got the pre-prod F storm. I also find the Storm suspension really soft, even on the "F". I'm a bit bigger than you too, so I'm gonna be stiffening it up A LOT. How do you find the throttle? I find it really twitchy. Haven't whiskey'd yet, but close a couple times and I'm hoping that Surron comes out with an app/program to be able to tweak it sooner than later. I can't speak for the KTM, as I've never been on it so glad you released this vid! :) Sidenote: the prod version of the Surrons are gonna have a bigger battery too, which I'm kinda miffed about. :(
@Grimnaut Thanks for your input! Definitely eager to try the bike with a suspension tune... I find that the throttle response could use some improvement too. It's a bit too delayed for my preference and can feel a little twitchy as you mentioned. Surron does say that throttle response will be improved for the production model but we will see! Where did you get your pre-production F?
Great review, but one thing that is forgotten. Side by side dragstrip 0-topspeed on the road, not dirt. That would be a great comparisson on the power-part of the review.
Love how indepth and honest this review was. Was going to get a KTM Freeride, but now I think I'll go with the Storm for the street-legal scrambler build I've been wanting to make for some time now. Definitely fits my all-in-one bike role that I need.
Love what you said. I am building my own. I am mechanic dumb I'm going to post it so others follow. These outlandish prices from China l don't want to now to.
*I’ve found if u adjust shocks to stiffest setting and turn it back very very little at time to find riding style area then start turning 1 tenth turns you can literally dial shocks in as precise as possible because 99% of these shocks you’ll miss that sweet spot if u turn adjust more than 1/16th to 1/8 increments at time my experience ( adjustable shocks speaking)* I hated my shocks until I figured it out now night n day. U can put abs brakes on front as well I’ve never needed them but would be nice feature. Turbo mode ( hill climbs)
Have you checked out the Electric and Co conversion kits? I've been seeing people putting them in fullsize bikes and they say the power is comparable to a 450. Seriously considering building one but I haven't seen a ton of reviews yet.
I already sold several street legal Storm Bees. The final liquid cooled ones. For 9.999€. The KTM is 12.699€ So over here in Germany. The Bee is cheaper.
33:13 When talking about throttle response: Are you talking stock setting storm bee? Or AFTER you have played around with it? I think there should be 3 settings for throttle response inside the menu? Or it may have been on the Ultra? Might be mixing it up...
It may be my imagination but it seemed you were a little quicker through the wooods on the KTM. I would think that would be due to weight and the differences in the basic designs. What I ride in Tenn. is just about the type single track maybe a little more technical but I'm old and not a fast rider. If I make 20 miles on my 300xcw I'm ready to go to the truck and it looks like either of these would get me to about that point. Thanks for the video, this is exactly what I've been wanting to see. Good stuff.
Definitely appear to be going quicker on the ktm. We agree on the ktm freeride aspects as a 300 xcw tpi rider myself. The drz400 comparison was you actually reading my mind lol. I've bike swapped for a ride with my buddy on his drz400 and me on my 300xcw. Boat anchor. It was fun for a while but it was work, hard work to not even be at the same pace as my 300xcw and I was either going to blow out the suspension or the motor.
Ground clearance seems to be a major issue. Rutted trails, heavy bike and low clearance are a bad combo. Second question; Are there any springs/suspension parts available for proper setup ?
Price to me is just to high they want you to go electric but you can get a good powerful Kawasaki for that price and I could get a couple 250cc Chinese bikes for me and 2 freinds to all ride I think the only factor I would buy this bike for is the sound I rode a 2stroke forever and couldn’t stand the sound and when I moved to a 4cycle it was much better on sound now I know they don’t allow them but if they would allow them on bike trails at national parks I’d be sold I’m not trying to ride like a motocross guy I ride slow and like to get to cool destinations not about going fast for me but I’d be sold and pay the price if I could use them on bike trails and I just love the low sound but I think I’m just going to go with a couple cheap 4 cycle bikes so I can have my daughter ride also and still have money in my pocket
Did you time your laps? It appears from the video that your lap time on the KTM was way faster. It appears from the video you felt you like you were going faster on the Surron because it was probably a looser feel. But looking at the tape it looks like you're going way faster most of the time on the KTM.
Hey Tucker, isn't your KTM modified (suspension and tires)? Compared to I'm assuming a stock Storm Bee. Do you think you could fix the suspension with springs/oil or would it need a different brand of suspension? I would also be great if you could do a longer term test. I'm concerned about reliability and availability of spare parts. Thanks for all you do, great channel.
My dealbreaker is top speed if I buy a bike like this I want it street legal and I want it to run 120 plus!! If that option is out there that’s what i want preferably much faster than that but you get what I’m saying lol
Do either one of them have a clutch or foot brake??if not they are just a heavy electric bicycle.these companies can and should do better for real off road riders .electric trials bikes have clutches and foot brakes.why are these not present on these models?
Yeah no thanks I want something that will take me out to nowhere and back and not have to worry about shorting out when going through a river or mud that's only good for back yard riding
