L3H Unfilmed White Phosphor | Photonis Echo WP | Harris ITT GP | Comparison Gen 3 Night Vision 

Juan Garcia Thanks for the kind words 👊

Garand Tangina Go with N-Vision Optics blem L3 WP tubes, just bought my first PVS-14 from them yesterday and with the help of nightwalker. The customer service was outstanding and a 10yr warranty.

That's one way to get a bunch of Privates to pay attention, lol. Thanks, appreciate the kind words!

Brandon It’s an awesome deal 👍

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION it was delivered yesterday. WOW. The videos don't show how clear these are in person. Anyone on the fence need not worry about these blemish units. They are incredible. Only problem I have is that I want two now. Thanks again for the heads up.

@@btumminaro Awesome!

How's it working for you? Any feedback?

@@ExtremeUnction1988 selling it at the moment becuz now I want duals🤣 night vision bug has officially bit me

duffy1298 👍

Totally worth the blem and they let you pick from them. I like that versus paying up front and not knowing what you'll get. Anybody who's looking for one of these from N-Vision, you have to call and get added to the list but be ready to buy when they call otherwise snooze you lose.

Hi Patrick. You're going to love that tube. Those are awesome specs and the EBI (0.4) is exceptional! It is definitely much better in person.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION Thank you for the reply, question: In the future when I want a second unit, how close to matching specs do you recommend a pair of pvs 14 have to work as a bino unit? i am guessing if they don't have very similar specs the user might not like what they see

@@patricksmith5640 You'll want them as close to each other as you can get. Halo in particular is very noticeable when there is a big difference between them, for example halo of 1.0 vs 0.5. I also like to have the photocathode sensitivity and gain close to each other but gain isn't as big of an issue with PVS-14s because you can adjust the gain on each -14 so their brightness is the same

@@patricksmith5640 I left out EBI. They don't need to be a perfect match as close as possible the better. Use the better tube on your dominate eye.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION Thank you

I was concerned about this too. Actually was able to talk to someone who performs failure tests at L3. Every tube mil-spec going to contracts or ones that go commercial all have to meet the 10,000 hour lifespan of maintaining the performance required by mil-spec. They perform accelerated testing to make sure they make it and I was assured this isn't an issue. Someone else (not from L3) who works on these said they actually will last longer than thin filmed because of reduced voltage compared to thin filmed. Guess I'll find out ;)

Ronald L Have you seen that happen yourself or how do you know that? Would like more info if you got it because a senior L3 guy told me after 10k. Of course, you wouldn’t expect him to say otherwise but I wouldn’t expect him to tell me anything if that wasn’t the case.

Thanks!

I've seen the flickering thing. The Echo I had the autogating was distinctly different than the Harris'. I liked the echo's sound better because it wasn't as high pitched.

Because the autogating electronic begin when the light is bright ( so with on the video , it looks like as if it is flickering

I like your channel and subscribed!

Todd Arnold It is tough unless you’re a dealer with access to a bunch of tubes, to select ones with the same or close halo and other values to compare side by side. I’ve tried getting more laser shots but the camera just can’t deal with the brightness through the device. It always looks blown out.

NITEWALKER happy to collaborate if you’re around the North Florida area. We are doing so training tonight with our group with all sorts of tools including some clip ons.

Todd Arnold I’d love to but I’m in the Southwest. Work and personal keeps me pretty locked down to the region. If I’m ever out that way I’ll hit you up. I appreciate the invite

I better start enunciating better, lol

You will need an arm to connect the -14 to a helmet mount and the helmet mount attaches to the helmet. The best options are the USGI j-arm with a Wilcox G11 or Norotos Rhino or Rino2, Wilcox -14 dovetail j-arm or Noisefighters AX14 j-arm with Wilcox G24, and Norotos dual dovetail adapter with Norotos INVG.

Space Bear I’ve used an Integrated Components D-14. I’ve also used the TNVC non powered bridge mount (NPBM). Depends on what you want. The D-14 has a quick detach feature and the NPBM doesn’t. I did a video going over the different dual PVS-14 mounts on this channel

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION Ahh thank you! Papa bless 👌🏻

This video was mostly using a DSLR adapter with a Canon but I switched to using an iPhone adapter only as it is far easier.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION do you recall the specs on the photonis ?

@@brookesprecision6272 I posted them in the video description of this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7uarUWPl-ck.html

It looks interesting but the lower quality optics is what would kill it for me. -31’s are cool IMO only for how light the real ones are. Functionality & price wise there are better bino options than the -31 such as the DTNVG/DTNVS/NVD-BNVD. Here’s a write up that talks about the lenses if you haven’t seen it before www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/08/21/atn-ps31/amp/

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I read the write up. They seem good if you’re willing to buy the top of the line. I’m torn between trying these or going with a BNVD as I am not feeling dropping 13k on some real 31s.

@@Goongravy6969 If it were me I’d go with the DTNVG, DTNVS or BNVD-SG. The weight of all three is about the same. The only way to get them close to the weight of the -31 is to spend a lot of extra $$ on the lightweight optics. The key difference between the AIB models and the NVD binos is gain control. If you’re buying high spec L3H unfilmed white phosphor then gain control isn’t a big deal in my experience. If you’re going with less expensive thin filmed tubes than I’d get gain control. It can be very useful if the tubes are scintillating a lot to lower the gain and reduce it. You’ll lose some brightness but it will make the image better. A cheaper option for lightweight is a refurbished Anvis 9 or buy a used -9 assembly and put your own tubes in. The downside is that it’s not very robust which may not be a big deal depending on what you’ll be doing with it.

Harrison Carmody - That’s an Integrated Components D-14. You can find them on Mod Armory’s website. They have a lightweight non-QD and this one the QD.

Blemishes are dark dots that appear in night vision but they do not degrade the performance of the tube it’s just the manufacturing

Dual tubes are better than a single more the majority of users. You should try to match them but people bridge different devices/tubes with success. However if the collimation is not correct it can cause eye strain & headaches

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION that's what I'm worried about. I think I'm going to just save up and try to match them

about half that price is the going rate for a fuckin' sweet dedicated dual setup.

This is four years later, you can get an L3 unfilmed dual PVS14 setup for 6k right now lol

Mpower The video is showing/comparing how these look under bright conditions and low light conditions. The 1st part of each comparison sequence is with bright moon and the 2nd part is no moon.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION thanks for the clarification, the reason i ask is i bought a use ps7 with harris / exelis tube 3pinnacle. it seems to be working great, but i see sparkles over the image in low light conditions/no moon. when really close up with ir , no sparkles. haven tested with moon light yet. I was expecting clear image ... is this normal for gen3 pinnacle ? or something wrong. the tube itself is only 2 years old, i removed and checked it to make sure

Mpower Totally normal. Right now with no moon it can be pretty dark. In a short while the moon will be back out and it’ll be a no pun intended day and night difference how it looks

Photonis I believe but not sure which exact tube.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION it look like the Echo one...

Dave M - You can get a PVS-14 with Echo white phosphor around that price point from Night Goggles (TNVC) or JRH Enterprises. If I remember right Night Goggles has the lowest price. I’d contact both and ask for specs. Buy from whomever you prefer or has the better tube. You should be able to find one with over 64 lp/mm (resolution) and over 30 signal to noise (SNR).

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I appreciate the reply. Now I'm thinking about TNVC financing that way I can pick up a dbal i2 along with pvs14. I understand that the l3 filmless w/p is the cats pajamas. That being said do you think running the echo over the L3 is quite abit more lacking or more or less sufficient? Trying to make the best purchase with a future ideas of bridging 2 pvs14's. That in mind I dont think I could swing 2x L3 w/p setups. Thats why im intrested in the echoes.

Dave M, For most people honestly the Echos will probably be more than enough. Same with thin filmed green. If you need to stay around the price range of a new Echo WP or a used green thin filmed, I think the Echo WP is the better way to go. The specs all seem to be pretty good and the image IMO is better with white phosphor. And 10 year warranty.

Ok now i'm leaning towards the PVS-14 Monocular (Unfilmed White Phosphor L-3 IIT, zone 3 blemish. from N Vision Optics. Is that where your l3 w/p is from? Also as far as specs what should I be looking for as far as freq, and resolution. They have it listed as this "Special pricing on Gen 3 Unfilmed White Phosphor L-3 Auto-Gated systems with 1 large spot in zone 3. Minimum signal to noise is 30, resolution 57 /64/72. Tube data sheet is included with the unit." Would you think that purchase would be better then echoes. I don't care so much about the blemish it will be used similar application your using yours.

Yessir, both of my L3 filmless WP are the N-Vision zone 3 blem 72 resolution. I'd only go for the 64 or 72 res with a signal to noise ratio low 30's or higher with EBI under 1.0. Mine are 72/34 and .08 & .06.

Interesting! I’ll try that out

It's a real tough decision and one of the reasons we've ran Harris Pinnacles for so long. It's hard to justify the cost without looking through them which is the main reason I wanted to make this video. Personally, I would choose HP+ over P+. We were using P+'s in the beginning but that was before they started the HP+ thing, so the HP+'s are going to be much better performers. Personally, I'd pick Photonis Echo WP's over P+. The specs on the one in the video are 67 res / 31.01 snr. P+'s are not even close but HP+ is in the same ballpark. The L3 filmless is better but you pay for it. We love the BNVD but the huge advantage dual -14's have over them is if you decide to sell later on, they're way way easier to sell without taking a huge hit. No one will want to pay the price for a bino like the BNVD that you'd need to not take a huge hit on resell.

Shit, let me clarify - if going Harris green I'd pick HP+ over P+. Between P+ and Echo I'd go Echo WP (highest specs you can find).

NITEWALKER thanks for the great input bro! Going to start hunting around looking for some Echo WP 14’s. Getting ready to purchase the TNVD NPBM-D Mount as soon as I can. Going with 14’s to get my foot in the water.. I may be close to the price of some BNVD’s by the time it’s all said and done but hopefully if I’m not happy with the WP I can sell and jump into the BNVD-DG HP+

@@Themichaelwesten Good luck! The thing with -14's I like the most is that if you decide to sell one or both later, like to buy a thermal or other gen 3 device, they're way easier to sell than a full up bino. And if only selling one you at least still have one -14. Good example is getting a FLIR Breach or PTS233 that are priced close to a -14. Duals are heavier than binos and not gucci but with a good dual mount like the NPBM-D they basically function the same. You can get into a bino rig with Echos for good prices so that's something to consider too.

NITEWALKER yeah man! I’m going to look into more bono rigs in echo but like you said the -14’s will be quicker to move if I plan to grab something else or change my mind on the rig. I’d like to grab a Steiner CQT 🤤 but I’d have to sell all my rifle rigs but one lol and I’m not willing to do that AT ALL!! Thanks so much for the info again brother. Just found you on IG as well man. How do you not have more followers 🤦🏻‍♂️ your knowledge is helping so many people.. stay safe 👊🏼

Lol I probably messed it up in editing

jittychitty Depends on your price range. The WHP+ are good tubes and I’ve seen them priced from $2,900-$3,300. L3 Filmless WP goes from $3,300 (with zone 3 spot) to over $4,000. High spec filmless is the best for the money, the WHP+ are very good.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I'd like to keep it around the 3250.00, that the one I mentioned is at. I realize a good dovetail mount would be the best vs. spending for the lesser, to only buy the better... later?

jittychitty Then I’d compare the WHP+ to the N-Vision Optics PVS-14 with L3 filmless WP. You can contact N-Vision and ask what they have in stock (ask for the specs) to compare to the WHP+. The zone 3 blem is a large spot in the outer edge of the tube but the trade off is $3,300 version over $4k for one with no spot.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION for a thousand more, I could get this one... but is it worth the difference... that's what I'm trying to figure out. It appears everyone uses a few manufacturers parts... but the outlying manufacturers are who I want the best quality, if you know what I mean... Thanks, btw!

jittychitty Honestly, for most people the $1,000 increase probably isn’t worth it. But if you want the very best performance and are willing to pay for it, then high spec filmless WP is the way to go. Being filmless it’ll have more clarity and work better in low light conditions.

Jason Roddey It’s here but it’s best to call or email to see what they have in stock vs blind ordering nvisionoptics.com/product/pvs-14-monocular-unfilmed-l-3-iit-zone-3-blemish/

NITEWALKER thanks I appreciate it

Jason Roddey 👍You bet

Oh yeah, huge savings, totally worth it. Sometimes I don't know if it's my tinnitus or the autogating, LOL

Speed demon I didn’t have an intens to compare. These are the 3 main tubes in the USA that most people are deciding between. The Echo is definitely the best for low cost WP but for the best low light performance both the Harris and L3 are better. The L3 filmless WP tubes I have in this video are 2440 FOM and are in all way superior to both.

Speed demon The Photonis gen 2 Echos are a great buy for someone, outdoorsman or not, who wants more affordable night vision. A BNVD with Echo WP can be found for $6,000 compared to $8k-$10k for the same BNVD with Harris thin filmed or L3 filmless

@@indicasativafusion I used to think that also because that's what I was told. I was lucky enough to talk to a test engineer with L3 about this. He is involved in the 10,000 hour mil-spec required usable lifetime testing. It's an accelerated test obviously. He said (I know, he works for L3) and I believe him, that virtually every tube exceeds the 10,000 hour requirement. There will be some degradation of performance like all gen 3 tubes will show but still completely usable. There are still Omni III tubes from the 90s being used with happy owners. In fact, I have a pair of Omni III 10160s on the way for delivery this week.

@@indicasativafusion look at it this way, there are gen 2 and gen 3 tubes that were used my the US Military from the 80's - 90's that are still be using, traded, resold from user to user today. PVS-5s, old PVS-7s, Anvis, etc. That says something that they were used by the military for unknown hours, then also by hobby users. They're pretty rock solid unless you do something stupid with it

In the USA, Photonis just calls them Echo, and they are basically the same as the Echo Plus used in Europe

I'm also very impressed with it. I always thought a lot of the hype surrounding them was just that, hype, but after getting them I can say it's not. These L3's are 2441 & 2462 FOM. The highest FOM tubes I've hear put eyes on. For recreational use they don't perform light years beyond the others, so for most I feel the lower cost thin filmed tubes will do just great. If you have the budget and want the apex tube then definitely L3 filmless WP 72 lp/mm.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION ITAR makes it unlikely for me to obtain these tubes with high specs in Germany. It's easier to get a German or Russian equivalent.

They'll be similar to the Elbit GP although Elbit GP seems to have higher specs on average than the L3Harris thin filmed GP.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I ended up picking up the newer model bnvd sg with Elbit hp+ tubes. I like them a lot. I’ve been comparing them to a set of sentinels that have L3 tubes. It’s a tough call on which are better.

omer turkic That’s a HP+ as Night Vision Devices classifies it. 1920 FOM (64 res / 30 snr). Omni VII type specs

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION I have pvs14 with mx10160 avs6 tube omni 7 It looks better than this one. But L3 wp is beauty.

Thanks for the reply and info @Eddgie Moreno. I personally purchased & owned all of the tubes I showed so that was the basis of the comparison. When I bought HP+'s from NVD, I did ask about the ULT's & which were the best tubes available, and was willing to buy them if it was a major improvement in performance. I was told there wasn't a huge difference. It could be my contact was thinking F9815's only or perhaps at that time they didn't have a lot of tubes? I'd love to check them out but for that kind of $$ I'll stick to higher spec L3 filmless which to date are the best I've ever seen. My L3 filmless tubes are 1701's and the specs: 72 res, 34+ SNR, PC sensitivity 2500+ and 2700+, high 62k gain, .8 and .7 halo and ebi. These L3's are significantly clearer than any filmed tube I've looked through which I'd have to imagine is from the lack of the film barrier. I do have a matched set of ITT F9800TG's that from memory are clearer than the HP+'s I've used but they didn't come with sheets and I no longer have the HP+'s to compare. Their performance is not as high as the L3's but they work very well. Thanks for the kind words. Believe me, I'd love to test and demonstrate as many tubes as I could, however, I'm not a dealer and only have our personal devices to show. After chasing tube specs for a while, I'm pretty happy with what I have now. When I did this video, I felt and still feel that these 3 tubes are what the majority of new buyers will come across. Lower priced Gen 2, mid priced Gen 3, and higher priced Gen 3. I do have an older even lower priced Omni III/IV ITT which I feel is similar to Gen 2, however I don't have the Gen 2 or HP+'s to compare with on the exact same night. I may still compare against videos with similar lighting conditions but that's not ideal.

@@NITEWALKER-NIGHTVISION Well, those are indeed outstanding specs and it would be difficult to find a thin film tube to match it. Many of the tubes I see people buying are not as good as yours though, and that is where I based my response on, but yeah, with your specs, I doubt any thin film tube is going to match it. The F9800 M24H might be in the ballpark, but I have never seen one of these for sale. So yeah, with that kind of spec, you have a top tier tube. I doubt that the vast majority are this good though. Enjoy it. Fantastic tube.

I’m definitely not trying to “scare anyone away” so that comment is unwarranted. All of the Photonis tubes are technically gen 2 by design and as such their gain level is not capable of being as high as gen 3. They’re good tubes but they simply aren’t as bright as gen 3 due to the gain level. This includes the 4G tubes. It is what it is.

To each their own. But you didn't mention their superiority over other tubes at the same price point with the halo. They are crisp and clear. I would definitely recommend anyone looking to buy NV to rent or borrow before purchasing instead of buying and crying. I apologize for the initial comment mam. I was semi trolling you. 😉 Edit: let's also be realistic here. Anyone getting g into night vision will get NV illumination. So that would have been nice for you to add.

@@joegoodall4637 I’ve always said Photonis are good tubes at the right price point or for specific use types. The only hang up I have is if they’re priced the same or close to good gen 3 and especially unfilmed gen 3. The current production unfilmed tubes are really good and getting better allowing users to stretch the distance before they need to use IR. Each their own to choose what they want and need for their use case but the reality is Night Vision analog & digital is at the highest rate of proliferation than ever before and passive vs active use is very important for certain users.

I agree for most people they'll be perfectly happy with Echo WP and it is a huge cost savings. The guy with the budget to spend who wants the best performance, no question it would be these L3 filmless WP with 72 lp/mm and mid at least mid 30-to-40's SNR. Mine are 72/34 and they spank every tube I've ever owned. I couldn't imagine how much better the 72/40's are. The $700-$800 savings on the blem units is a great deal for what you're getting.

You know that brings up another good point a lot of people should consider. Everyone’s eyes are different and I used to think that was mostly BS when I was younger. But now that I’m 40 I believe it more and more. My L3 tubes are almost exactly like yours. 72lpmm......34.2 snr......halo and ebi .7 and .9. Fantastic tubes. But just me, only me, they don’t seem to “spank” my echo tubes or even my green Omni 7 tubes. Don’t get me wrong they do......., they do. But i guess I had huge expectations of a huge leap. Ya know?

Psycho Dad and J Fit Everyone is different. For me, it’s a noticeable difference. Under bright moon light or good ambient light it’s not as big a jump. In the boonies most definitely I can see better and further with the L3’s

Speed demon There is no “real” such thing as Gen 4. Anybody using that is just marketing. Like I said, here in the USA, most buyers are deciding between Photonis Echo (usually WP), gen 3 thin filmed GP image tubes (Harris or L3), and gen 3 L3 filmless (usually WP). These were tubes I personally owned so it was a logical comparison.

@@indicasativafusion No worries. Just mentioning because Gen 4 was floating around for a while but it was actually regarding L3 filmless. Almost all have stopped repeating it however. I thought you might have been thinking (I've seen others do) that 4G meant Gen 4.