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Labour "will scrap" two child benefit cap, but not yet | Andrew Marr | The New Statesman

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The new Labour government is taking nothing for granted as Keir Starmer surveys the challenges ahead.
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Keir Starmer is determined that the turmoil of decision-taking doesn’t make his government forget the political realities beyond Westminster. Five days a week there will be 9am “no complacency” meetings of ministers and advisers on the underlying politics.
Andrew Marr speaks to Hannah Barnes about the key issues for Labour including their green ambitions, immigration, settling the doctor's strikes and mounting pressure to scrap the two child benefit cap.
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6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 415

@Paul-eb2cl Месяц назад

There is plenty of money in this country; it needs to be in the right hands.

@dotty1774 Месяц назад

They had a £3bn Tech Giant Tax that Vanished last year after meeting with Google! They can easily pay for it, they just don't have the will to do it. We're talking about Children! They shouldn't have to wait a single second longer. The longer children and families remain in poverty the more the cost will be in the long run through crime, social services and Healthcare.

@Dayrile123 Месяц назад

I think that's an incredibly naive and simplistic view of the situation...

@RH1812 Месяц назад

It’s not a two child benefit cap, it’s restriction on maximum universal credit. Calling it a child benefit cap makes it sound like a cap on individual child benefit. Clarity is important as well a debate around the issue.

@MikePhillips-pl6ov Месяц назад

Good point

@azillliasmith2734 Месяц назад

I've been posting this .....think a lot of "reporters" are confusing the issue too......some people believe there will be a cap for over 2 children for help with the kids they have produced ........if you have 12 children you will still get 12 lots of money from other people to look after the kids you brought into the world .....but...."only" two lots of child tax credits.....should give a lump sum for over breeders to to get sterilised....

@chrissaltmarsh6777 Месяц назад

If this was explained carefully, I doubt people would be bothered. Anyway, UC constraint will get binned after the next budget, I suspect.

@oldskool4572 Месяц назад

It is a two child benefit cap on UC and tax credits. You are not allowed to claim for a third child for those particular benefits as from April 2017. Not sure why that is difficult to grasp.

@trishtraynor Месяц назад

Unless that child was conceived by rape ! It's barbaric.

@Jaaj2009 Месяц назад

The Country should focus on ensuring that work pays enough to support a family. The policy is popular because there are a huge number of women at child bearing age that have chosen not to have 1 or more children because they don't think they can afford it and they don't want them and their children to struggle though life. UK business has become drunk on government handouts, subsidising working income and cheap labour from immigration. We need stronger workers rights and higher pay and stronger investment in UK skills and education. That said not everyone taking child benefit is on the take, we still need a safety net for those who regardless of being responsible, end up supporting a number of children as a single parent etc but it shouldn't be the norm to need your wages topping up by state support.

@dereks1264 Месяц назад

I don't understand this whole "two child benefit cap". There is no restriction on the number of children when it comes to the child benefit. Is everybody actually talking about the universal credit where this, again, has no limitation on the number of children but there is a lower rate for second and subsequent children? Again, there is no "cap" that I can see but there is a disparity between the rate for the first child and that for the second and subsequent children. The way the debate is being framed is that "you're OK for two children but SOL for any other children". That is, at least, misleading. What am I not understanding here?

@fregus. Месяц назад

You're right to be confused, as the benefits system is absurdly contrived. So, child benefits are *not* changing. You still get an amount per child, which decreases to a lower amount for every child after the first. The cap they're talking about is for *low income families* and is specifically about universal credit and tax credits. They get a certain amount of benefits and tax credits per child, with a cap on 2 children. anything over that, they get nothing extra. Removing the cap would mean they get extra for every child. So, to be (slightly) clear, it's not a "two child benefits cap", it's a "two child universal credit and tax credit cap". Child benefits are not changing.

@douglascheung5815 Месяц назад

As Andrew said in his closing comments, responsible, thoughtful and mature journalism will serve our nation and citizens much better than in the past decade.

@yogiparashara4016 Месяц назад

Just on the point of ID cards , what about having a British Passport or having a the appropriate Immigration Visa? Why does the appropriate authorities ask for these as part of accessing our Services?

@user-oo6ef4ho4r Месяц назад

I don't understand why people think it's someone else responsibility to take care of their children, I was born in Guyana my aunt had 8 children, Guyana didn't give benefits my aunt and her husband took care of all her children, the UK has made a big mistake with this system, I believe benefits should go to people who really needs it, those people are those who really can't work, the elderly who has multiple health conditions and just have pensions and nothing in the bank, people with disabilities, parents who cannot work full time because of care needs of their children or their older relatives. Benefit is not for able body people who should be working. Help people into work instead of them sitting at home when they are able to work.

@martineyles Месяц назад

You don't understand the purpose of the benefit. It is there to bring children out of poverty, not to reward irresponsible parents. Because we have limited the benefit to covering two children, the CHILDREN in larger families are suffering. Those children do need this benefit.

@Ubiets Месяц назад

There should be no benefits at all. Spartan society is what we need.

@martineyles Месяц назад

@@Ubiets No benefits? So even more child poverty?!

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

I can see both sides. We don't want to encourage people to have too many children. But also, those children don't choose to be born. So we don't want to abandon them into poverty. And supporting them in childhood may even be a good financial investment if it makes them more likely to grow up as healthy and productive citizens.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711we are below replacement birth rate so we 100% have to be encouraging people to have more children

@iainmackenzieUK Месяц назад

excellent point about grown up politics, media scrutinising and reporting. Long over due

@andrewrose7800 Месяц назад

Why should the two child benefit law be dropped. It is the choice of people to have a larger family, knowing the responsibilities this takes, including costs. If couples make a free choice, why should the taxpayer have to stump up. You're wrong to say everyone hates this.

@martineyles Месяц назад

The parents could make different choices, but the children can't. Essentially the current rules on benefit punish the CHILDREN in the larger families.

@StormHawks120 Месяц назад

@@martineyles why condoms or the pill is avialable

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

It's a difficult trade-off. On the one hand, we don't want to incentivize people to have too many children. On the other hand, children don't choose to be born, and we don't want to punish them for the decisions of their parents. I think there's a middle-ground to be found. Perhaps by increasing the cap to 3 children. Or introducing a tapered system.

@martineyles Месяц назад

@@StormHawks120 Contraception won't help the children that are already here, already living in poverty and it won't undo decisions their parents took many years ago.

@wea1117 Месяц назад

@@StormHawks120 So you're upset at babies for not using condoms?

@gooderspitman8052 Месяц назад

Which will benefit the demographics with above large families and penalise the taxpayer.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

Below replacement birth rate so that support is necessary

@formerlybernard6460 Месяц назад

gimmegrants.

@fredmercury1314 Месяц назад

@@boxtradums0073 Not really. And even if that were true, it's 60 years too late.

@stevenhearnden6103 Месяц назад

@@boxtradums0073 seriously? This country currently has an unofficial population of in excess of 80 million. It is an overcrowded cess pit.

@inbb510 Месяц назад

@@boxtradums0073, not in a way that causes families of 10+ which is dysfunctional and exacerbates poverty at a national level.

@SP-eo1vl Месяц назад

Interesting comments about how journalists should react over the next couple of months and deal with the policy issues not personalities. I am so fed up of so many people quoting Liz Truss on Kamala Harris. What Liz Truss has to say now is of no use to anyone and should be of no interest. There is no point to quoting what she has to say about Kamala Harris and very little else.

@daz69phillips Месяц назад

Can't afford children then don't have any. Stop relying on others and take responsibility yourself.

@anmnazmulhossain 3 дня назад

I don't understand why the priority of the children needs don't put forward when thousands of families are really struggling hard to meet their end needs especially in this increased cost of living crisis. The today's children who're the backbone of the society, will lead this country one day. Therefore, prioritising their needs are inevitable for the future prosperity of this country.

@PEdulis Месяц назад

"Removing the child benefit cut will cost 3 billion" NO, IT WILL NOT! The people who receive that money will spend it immediately since they are barely making ends meet currently. Therefore, they will increase GDP with it, raise the tax income and therefore, it almost pays for itself, certainly doesn't cost the money spent on it. Why are so many commentators so naive and lacking a basic understanding of economics?

@bullholder Месяц назад

Doctors are right to ask for pay rise and Streeting should be careful. Physician assistants, based on the recent proposed AFC pay rise, will start on 46k. Meanwhile a doctor will start on 32k. That is basic. Both can earn more working more hours many choose not to. I hope the Labour commissioned NHS review considers ending the experiment of physician assistants and nursing associates. They are sticking plaster untrained replacements of doctors and nurses and not value for money at all. It is only doctors who can bring down the waiting list as well.

@InvadedOath Месяц назад

An excellent vision for journalism, especially when contrasted with the absolute shambles that was Politics Live earlier today

@user-ju3kl8tm4f Месяц назад

What a lot of people seem to miss is this is about a two child cap on universal credit not a 2 child cap on child benefits.

@userfile007 Месяц назад

It’s a child benefit cap whatever way you spin it.

@martineyles Месяц назад

Yes, it may not be a two-child Child Benefit cap, but it's still a two-child benefit cap.

@RH1812 Месяц назад

Exactly. It’s nuance but it’s an important distinction.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

Our benefits system is so unnecessarily convoluted.

@martineyles Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 Alas, every time they try to simplify it they end up both making it more complicated and pissing off a load of people who either want to reduce or increase the benefits.

@gavinclarke5079 Месяц назад

Keeping the triple lock, costing 11 billion this year to keep pensions rising, increasing public sector wages by at least 5%, paying billions for new fighter jets while keeping the two child benefit cap in place which would cost around 2 billion is not only unfair but a disgrace.

@Bringontheasteroid Месяц назад

I agree, it should all be scrapped and people should learn to stand on their own two feet and live within their means. I think that would require backbones to be reinstalled though, so highly unlikely.

@WilliamAhlert Месяц назад

Absolutely

@MidnightSouls Месяц назад

The unsustainability of the triple lock is really the taboo subject we need to open up to debate. Since 2011 the state pension has increased by 60%, vastly outpacing average earnings and prices which have risen around 40%. As this collides with the huge demographic glut of the baby boomer generation reaching retirement age, it means that we find ourselves with a top heavy population pyramid, with more pensioners depending on proportionally far fewer working age tax payers to support them. This is to direct no blame to baby boomers for simply existing, but presenting as fact that ever more pensioners drawing an ever increasing pension from a [currently] stagnant to slow growing economy, while also requiring ever more expensive NHS interventions that are a natural consequence of aging means that the state's resources can only stretch so far until some hard questions need answering. We have reached that point. Unless we want to accept, as a country, that we all pay a much greater and ever increasing tax burden to pay for that generation's retirement - when, to be fair, the baby boomers have, on balance, already done quite well for themselves in terms of wealth accumulation - then we might have to accept that pension increases "locked" at a minimum of 2.5% (which is faster than the average growth rate of the economy) can't go on forever.

@ronlarratt9642 Месяц назад

Foxtrot oscar

@ronlarratt9642 Месяц назад

Foxtrot oscar

@DanCThorpe Месяц назад

Its a political choice. Its not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

I'm a Labour Party member, but I do despair at the centrist and tribalist cheerleaders who will celebrate Labour, no matter what they do, rather than actually grappling with what a progressive/social democratic government is *supposed* to do, which is reduce hardship for the poorest members of society. I get the impression that these centrist elites see politics as a game, where it's their side against another, rather than a means towards an end (that end being the eradication of poverty, among other important practical aims).

@louisboylan7623 Месяц назад

How do you achieve those aims? Through legislation. How do you get legislation through parliament? By having a working majority of MPs. This requires you to win the elections, and maintain party discipline. If you have ever had a leadership role, you will know that on some occasions team members challenge your authority. Sometimes when people break the rules you have to be ready to enforce them, or a dynamic where people are free to work for their own agenda, rather than the benefit of the team develops. Literally day one in the job, is without question a case when you cannot turn a blind eye to your authority being disregarded. If you recall Boris Johnsons leadership, he had a very hardline attitude towards rebels in some cases, and he benefited from almost total party loyalty. Rishi Sunak on the other hand, allowed Braverman to undermine his 'integrity' pitch 1 week into the job. He never recovered, everything leaked from cabinet and multiple factions in the party briefed against him with impunity. As a result he all but gave up on legislation as anything he would propose would be opposed by his MPs, because they knew they would face no consequences. At that stage it was too late to enforce the rules because it would open him up to accusations of unfairness and bias. This is nothing to do with poverty or policy at all. It's simple leadership, MPs are people leading them is no different to leading anyone else.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

@@louisboylan7623 "This is nothing to do with poverty at all" If you're living in poverty, this has *everything* to do with it. Once again, people like you seem to view politics as a game, rather than what it should be, an instrument for enhancing the lives of the people who most need help. Of course you need a majority, and of course you need some degree of party discipline (although one of the few 'downsides' of having such a large majority is that you inevitably have less control over your parliamentary party), and in all fairness, I'd have probably have voted with the govt. last night. Still, I think there's something rather unseemly about celebrating Starmer's command of the party/party discpline when the issue at stake for his rebels is the pressing issue of child poverty. "Yayyy to Starmer in smashing the silly naughty bleeding-hearts!" I've seen this supercillious 'realpolitik' callousness from party centrists, like TNS and Marr before, and I can't help questioning why they even support Labour if they think the issue of child poverty comes secondary to 'imposing leadership/statemanship'. Once again, these out-of-touch elitists see everything from an ivory tower, no doubt preparing to extol Starmer in some future BBC documentary on the fall and rise of the Labour Party, but for those of us who care about the here-and-now rather than an academic historical context, poor kids matter.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

Phil from A Different Bias is absolutely shocking when it comes to this. He’s defending the cap not being removed despite the fact he’s been slating the tories for it for years.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

@@boxtradums0073 Sounds like tribalism to me, and, like I say, I speak as a Labour Party loyalist, albeit not a blindly uncritical one.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

@@GregOrCreg it makes my skin crawl tbh. I’m a Scottish independence supporter but I lend my vote to the SNP and would rather have an alternative tbh

@beep4085 Месяц назад

They do not have my patience. If they increased the taxes on the disgustingly large profits corporations like Tesco and water companies have made off of the back of the cost of living crisis, they would make a few billion overnight. They still believe in trickle down economics and it's gross.

@sunnysjwinter Месяц назад

The pandemic was the biggest transfer of wealth from the poorest to the richest in our society, maybe ever. Labour need to tax the rich to high heaven, recover the revenue from the failed PPE contracts & give that money back to those struggling by removing the 2 child benefit cap & improving the country’s safety net. The fact we have around 1000+ food banks in the U.K. is shameful - it was a Tory political choice

@CmdrTobs Месяц назад

I smell a mix of Gary's economics and geezer knowledge.

@StefanRowe-dj8xs Месяц назад

If you can’t afford to have more than two kids DONT FLIPPING HAVE THEM for god sake ! It’s unfair on the children, shameful.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

Another muppet who doesn’t understand we need a replacement birth rate to even have a future as a country. Those in work pay for those out of work and with the boomers the largest generation alive that leaves a massive gap in the finances that has to be filled.

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

Agree. Poor life chances, a vicious circle

@inbb510 Месяц назад

But for some people, children are... .... wait for it... ... ... A "gift from God".

@K.B.O-fi3hh 29 дней назад

Why PM doesnt have a dialogue with people about things that concerns them . He just shouts FarRigt to everyone . Children have been killed . He doesn’t have any understanding how far the problem with immigration has gone . TwoTier policing is totally unfair .

@hughcaskey9542 12 дней назад

Just made me Ill seeing marr and starmer in this picture

@bluceree7312 Месяц назад

So where is my benefits for not having any children and lowering the CO2 footprint and saving the planet?

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

That's not how the world works. I don't have children either and likely never will. But benefits aren't and shouldn't be a reward for good behaviour (although I certainly think other taxes, like a carbon tax, for instance, or higher VAT on air travel etc, can shift behaviour/punish 'bad behaviour'). Benefits exist for a practical reason: to stop people descending into poverty. Yes, life can be unfair, but I'd rather feel 'punished' for not having children than see a situation where children are punished, and pushed into poverty, for being born into a large family

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

That's silly. Our birth rate is below the natural replacement rate of the population. I'm not having children, but that's a personal choice, it doesn't make me morally superior.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

@@andybrice2711 The OP isn't entirely wrong though. More kids = large carbon footprint. That's not a reason for punishing kids born into large families, or even rewarding those of us who don't have children, but it should at least serve as a moral warning of sorts to responsible people who care about their impact on the world. As for the 'replacement rate', isn't that the argument for maintaining immigration levels, contrary to the same right-wingers who want us to have more babies? And isn't it also an argument for investing in better health care that will allow us all to live more productive lives well into our 60s.70s and beyond? I might not have kids, but unlike the way we've treated Biden and even Trump (as much as I detest the latter), I like to think I can be of some use to the world well into my 80s.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

You are all so short sighted with this. We need a replacement birth rate to even have a country ffs. Who do you think pays the pensions. With the boomers set to retire there aren’t enough children to generate the tax revenue we need to sustain them which is why there is so much immigration

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

Ditto !

@grahampeters7297 Месяц назад

I know this will not make be popular. But! I've found myself on benefits now, but when I had a child I was working, on a low wage, I made the decision to, only, which is the completely wrong word, as any normal parent will understand, to have one child. Okay, okay, sometimes people have unexpected births, or triplets, but Some people do have more children to move themselves up the housing list. Having children is a choice, not like being born with a disability, what about those disabled in poverty?

@samo1006 Месяц назад

You can't punish a child with hunger because they were born. What good does it do society to have so many children in poverty anyway? Are we supposed to sit back and admire the cruel justice served to children because it's so easy for the British public to imagine poverty as a choice - something that only happens to irresponsible, lesser people? Poverty is society's choice, not the individual. There is so so much wealth in this country that £3 billion is an easily raised amount. And in choosing not to raise taxes on the wealthiest, we choose to let children go hungry. Next time you're in London, go to Kensington and have a look around and think about whether saying "there is no money for hungry kids" is morally justifiable.

@emmajones5075 Месяц назад

You have them you pay for them

@John420ridge Месяц назад

If you want more kids pay for them. This will make people be benefit scroungers and other non British families turf out more kids.

@user-linzilou84 Месяц назад

I thought Non British families don't have a cap. Or at least the illegals.

@userfile007 Месяц назад

No money? Didn’t Kid Starver just give Ukraine £3 billion?

@inbb510 Месяц назад

You know if Ukraine falls, food prices will quite literally skyrocket as anything that comes from Russia is sanctioned and it also means we need to rack up defence spending?

@Bringontheasteroid Месяц назад

At least I know what my heavy tax burden gets frittered away on. Paying for other peoples kids, illegal immigrants and benefit scrounges. Oh how right wing of me, I know…the accusation coming from those who build nothing, create nothing, but want everything.

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

Still, mustn’t grumble , eh?😂

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

With a below replacement birth rate it’s ridiculous to penalise people for having the children we actually need !

@azillliasmith2734 Месяц назад

These children are just as likely to end up needing benefits as their parents are.....

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

You seem to be oblivious of mass immigration.

@GrooveSpaceArk Месяц назад

@@smartiecooper4702 Most of them come from countries with the same problem it's just kicking the can down the road.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

@@azillliasmith2734 without training available they can be which is why we need to train our own people rather than poach trained people from abroad 😉

@JestersDeadUK Месяц назад

Yea and what people have 6/7 kids without working?!?!

@Aubury Месяц назад

Lord, give me chastity and continence, but not yet!

@cherylburrows1655 Месяц назад

I would like to add that keir Starmer promise that when people voted him as leader his main mission would be to get rid of 2 child cap benefit.

@cherylburrows1655 Месяц назад

Sir kid starver has done a Draconian move suspended 7 MPs . Starmer needs to be suspended. And investigated

@fireman3857 Месяц назад

More money out of the hard working people's pockets. If you're healthy enough to push out three babies, you're healthy enough to go to work. Subsidize day care. And stop taxing overtime. And start promoting family planning and awareness.

@boxtradums0073 Месяц назад

If you want a pension we need a replacement birth rate

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

That is radical thinking, over the heads of most politcians.

@Matt-ou7tu Месяц назад

"There is no money, or very little money" ... no its a political choice due to their own "fiscal rules".

@Ashz96 Месяц назад

Cloud cookoo land, this comment is just as short sighted as Liz Truss.

@fredmercury1314 Месяц назад

£9.7 billion on illegal immigrants in 2023. There's no money for the natives.

@Matt-ou7tu Месяц назад

@Ashz96 Can you explain where the money to support Ukraine is coming from then, if there is no money to do this? Also you centrist's always like to mention Liz Truss when Starmer is called out. Liz Truss was punished for wanting to borrow to fund tax cuts. It's not the same thing.

@fredmercury1314 Месяц назад

@@Matt-ou7tu Liz Truss was not responsible for the economy issues. The tax cuts her government had proposed amounted to less than the amount we later sent off to Ukraine. That was the behind-the-scenes work of the banks, colluding with the EU and the left wingers in the Tory party, specifically to oust the person the members voted for and install Sunak. It was blatant. And they'll probably oust Starmer too at some point, and replace him with some other WEF operative.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

I wonder how much it would cost to increase the cap from 2 children to 3. And how many children that would help. I think it's reasonable to have _some_ limit. But 3 children is a fairly common family size. And 2 children is below the replacement rate.

@keithmarshall8796 Месяц назад

Seems all you've got is " replacement rate" that's what immigration is for so you keep telling us.

@valmarriner9718 Месяц назад

Snarky sideswipe at the MPs summer holiday. UGH! There are better people out there - spare us the 2nd rate smarty pants.

@TimoDyer Месяц назад

The 2 cap for Universal Credit is fair. When more money is available make it 3 cap, and then that's the limit.

@davidhogan621 Месяц назад

The UK has pledged £2.5 billion ($3.2 billion) in military aid to Ukraine for 2024, which will fund various types of military equipment such as drones, artillery, and long-range missiles (Defense News). The ongoing Defense Support: Since February 2022, the UK has committed £12.5 billion in support to Ukraine, with £7.6 billion allocated for military assistance. This funding covers lethal and non-lethal weaponry, equipment, and training programs for Ukrainian military personnel (Commons Library). In addition to direct military aid, the UK has signed a £2 billion loan agreement with Ukraine to further bolster its defence capabilities, including acquiring modern weapons and other defence equipment in line with NATO standards (Euromaidan Press). In the meantime, as of 2024, approximately 4.3 million children in the UK are living in poverty. This represents around 30% of all children in the country. The situation has worsened recently, with a notable increase of 100,000 more children living in poverty from the previous year (End Child Poverty) (Action for Children). In recent years, several diseases that were previously under control or rare have re-emerged among children in poverty-stricken areas. These diseases include Ricketts, Scurvy, Tuberculosis (TB), Measles, Whooping cough and Scarlett Fever. These diseases highlight the importance of addressing nutritional deficiencies, to protect vulnerable children from preventable illnesses. Just get rid of the cap, if the government can find money for war, they must be able to find money to save our children.

@user-on8gw4dr7p Месяц назад

Leave the ECHR NOW.

@andybrice2711 Месяц назад

I'm not convinced it makes sense to spend so much money on de-carbonizing the UK with existing technologies. That will have a negligible impact on global emissions, whilst reducing quality-of-life, and making us poorer and less competitive. Whereas if we invested that money in improving green technologies, then they could be scaled across the entire world, and boost our economy in the process.

@robjackson967 Месяц назад

When will the economic benefit of rejoining the EU become an obvious choice to balance the books across the public sector and benefit system?

@CmdrTobs Месяц назад

The EU provided no benefit to public finances. You have to suppose EU membership causes a lot of adiitional taxable growth, it doesn't seem to.

@robjackson967 Месяц назад

@@CmdrTobs restriction of trading with your closest partners has led to a contraction of exports and trade. Trade generates taxes, taxes pay for public services. Would you like to argue otherwise?

@CmdrTobs Месяц назад

@@robjackson967 That's the general analysis isn't. The problem with that is: The EU isn't quite that. It's a minor *per* shipment reduction in buracracy in exchange for tarrif barriers with the rest of the world and the surrender of customs fees and membership fees Trade is fine, search evidence: "Value of trade in goods with the European Union in the United Kingdom from 1st quarter 1997 to 1st quarter 2024"

@hughwilson2219 Месяц назад

Oh, so did he take the decision to sack the seven MPs himself?

@merrybrown6407 Месяц назад

How is it fair that someone on 20k per year should be made to subside families who are much better off because of their lifestyle choice to have children?

@chrisbirmingham5132 Месяц назад

Universal Credit (which is what this is about, by the way - not Child Benefit, though the media has been poor on clarifying this) doesn't make anyone better off than a childless person on 20k per year.

@briandelaney9710 Месяц назад

It was a bit high handed to suspend the whip for those 7 MP’s. Even Tony Blair’s government never did that for early rebellions

@ejazkhan4534 Месяц назад

Stoma is different to B' Liar.

@andrewrose7800 Месяц назад

Marr's playing the race ticket. Is that all he has to offer. Happily he has now found his natural environment and is no longer bothered with reporting a balanced view, as his old employer the BBC required. Defence of the two child cap is not racist, it is saying people have a choice to raise a family of however many, but should the tax payer have to stump up for the ree choice of parents. Years ago, the child benefit was not payable for the first child of a couple, but for those following. I'm not aware MPs at the time lobbied for benefits to single child families. It is a question of choice and taking responsibility.

@edmurth Месяц назад

I think Andrew Marr is right about the type of journalism the public wants. In the last couple of weeks, even on channels like the Times by far and away the most common comments have been variations of “thank god with have some grown ups in charge”.

@user-oo4mj3ey3j Месяц назад

If you can’t afford kids don’t have them

@WilliamAhlert Месяц назад

*female victims of rape have entered the chat* *stable families whose financial lives have been destroyed by austerity have entered the chat* *three economic disasters in 20 years have entered the chat* *the biggest squeeze in wages since the napoleonic war have entered the chat*

@ArtSmart91 Месяц назад

@@WilliamAhlertthey are the exact type of person the LP aimed to win over at the last election. They are the type of people Labour want as their electoral base that leads them to victory every election for the next 15 years

@azillliasmith2734 Месяц назад

It's not child benefit! ..........It's child tax credits! 🙄 .......have 12 kids and you will get child benefit for everyone ..... but you can only claim child tax credits for two ffs! Jesus! .....

@kerrynewnham8946 Месяц назад

The fans of Keir Starmer and his type of politics seem to be comfortable middle aged men, which is unfortunate as that describes some very influential commentators eg Chris mason, Robert peston, Andrew Marr

@tonyaustin4472 Месяц назад

What is the Government going to do about Guyana?! This crisis has been brewing for months and I’m sure folk know that Venezuela is threatening to invade. Guyana is a member of the Commonwealth and we need some action by Labour along the lines of Tony Blair in Sierra Leone….it’s far safer to very publicly do something like that and stop Venezuela before they act don’t you think?

@mrhat50 Месяц назад

The benefit family's will love a bit of this.

@emmaeltringham91 Месяц назад

So he'll then look a right chump for removing the whip from these 7.

@nicholasjagger6557 Месяц назад

So if an older parent develops dementia, and has a house, they pay every penny for the consequences of disease, and it is being said that large families need government support when having a child is something that ought to be properly thought through. One might be able to dodge the dementia bullet, who can say, but having a child shouldn't be just something that happens.

@dilonkumar4960 Месяц назад

But those children will be tax’s payers

@CmdrTobs Месяц назад

@@dilonkumar4960 They likey won't be. Most people are drains.

@dilonkumar4960 Месяц назад

@@CmdrTobs no there not ,the only problem is this country is created for the elites

@dazzwsmith Месяц назад

Increase it to 3 children as an interim measure.

@NigelThompson-hb5jg Месяц назад

Don't have a child if you can't afford it.

@timwoodger7896 Месяц назад

I’m sure the workers would rather have better wages! £ 10 a week won’t feed a a child for long.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

Even 30p Lee Anderson recognises how far £10 can stretch when it comes to providing a child with basic meals/nutrition for a week.

@timwoodger7896 Месяц назад

@@GregOrCreg 🤦

@goodmusicneverdies1998 Месяц назад

@timwoodger7896 Why not both; might as well actually address poverty as a priority instead of almost completely setting it aside! 🤦🏻‍♂️

@timwoodger7896 Месяц назад

@@goodmusicneverdies1998 because they replaced wages for benefits and now they want to take away benefits but without replacing the wages. 99% of the population now share just 10% of the wealth generated. In my grandfathers time 99% of the population shared 90% of the wealth generated!! My grandfather raised five children and my grandmother never needed to work. My grandfather was a general painter and decorator And earned a modest wage in comparison to others but he was a lot wealthier than most managers today. There’s more money now than ever and yet you need two wages and a benefits top up just to survive. We don’t need benefits we need those wages back and not stuck offshore in a bank account…

@Eltener123 Месяц назад

Children are far less likely to become the skilled workers and entrepreneurs of tomorrow if they're too hungry to concentrate at school

@david030491 Месяц назад

Capping child benefit but not bankers bonuses. “Change” lol.

@JZTechEngineering Месяц назад

didin't the cap on banker bounuses stay? and if not it will be reversed on the budget day I would guess

@david030491 Месяц назад

@@JZTechEngineering they literally confirmed they would not bring it back, it was scrapped by the Blue Tories in 2023. Red Tories committed to keep it.

@bluceree7312 Месяц назад

They find other ways to pay their bosses. In addition to pay caps, there needs to be a mandate on investing profits back in the community and not overseas in hidden funds.

@JZTechEngineering Месяц назад

@@bluceree7312 how do you plan on mandating that?

@bluceree7312 Месяц назад

@@JZTechEngineering taxes on profits.

@FranzBieberkopf Месяц назад

ID cards would cost a fortune.

@taxpayer1040 Месяц назад

Is Andrew but another of the many client journalists for Kia Starmer!

@flamboyentpromotions3471 Месяц назад

Yes, he clearly wants plenty of access

@FranzBieberkopf Месяц назад

Kia is a car. Starmer is a human. "Many client journalists"-have you read the Mail, Express, Telegraph or Sun lately?

@hughwilson2219 Месяц назад

@@FranzBieberkopf some say Starmer is not human at all.

@Dayrile123 Месяц назад

Do you fancy actually formulating a good plan/argument for an alternative to Keir's approach, or are you just gonna make pointless jibes at well respected journalists with more knowledge than you?

@taxpayer1040 Месяц назад

@Dayrile123 these would be the journalists who said little about gaza or for that matter illegal settlements for decades and repeated whatever Israeli spokesperson (former head of labour friends of Israel - D. Mencer) tell them. Media / journalism has become overdependent on access rather than doing serious reportage and for that matter political parties dependent on the support of a non UK support (Murdoch). I rest for the defence.

@user-om9su8zb9w Месяц назад

And how much is that going to cost the country????? Don't have kids you can't afford !!

@HowdyDo42 Месяц назад

a little over £1bn per year, which is a pittance compared to military and other spending

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

Good advice in theory, but not much use from a practical POV where we don't have the power, nor, arguably should we, to control how many kids people have, and where the principle 'don't have kids you can't afford' just comes across as glib and callous when dealing with actual kids born into large families. Sorry, but the world isn't perfect and punishing the most vulnerable for those imperfections ain't gonna help.

@user-om9su8zb9w Месяц назад

@@HowdyDo42 Really well we need the money for defence and other things ...completely unacceptable

@martineyles Месяц назад

People have kids they can afford, then have a change of circumstances. You can't undo the birth of these children or punish them for existing.

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

@@martineyles Precisely. These people are so bogged down in what 'should happen' (in their opinion) that they're blind to what actually has happened (i.e. these children already exist and, as you say, they shouldn't be punished simplt for existing).

@ryanmoss8732 Месяц назад

Not yet? So there's no plans to actually decrease the cost of living and make work pay so that more benefits aren't necessary?

@Bazgren8843 Месяц назад

If there was some sense in doing so, ie we want to encourage more people to have children so we need to rely less on immigration, then I understand, but that’s not the reason. They’ll keep importing millions. Originally NI was partly to pay for a state pension, which I’ve paid for 40 years. Some wives get it, just because their husbands have done so.

@ArtSmart91 Месяц назад

You can tell how out of touch these well paid journalists are with the realities of living in precarious Britain. The only people who don’t see the need for a strong social security safety net are people who are so far away from needing it they can’t reason with the need for it. They have no problem understanding why high interest rates are an issue, it affects the amount they pay on their mortgages!

@emcarver8983 Месяц назад

And which families will benefit from it? Why do you think it's happening? Who has several wives and multiple children? The British average is less than 2 children per family. So it won't be many of us.

@J-wm4go Месяц назад

Do you understand how averages work?

@flamboyentpromotions3471 Месяц назад

What you've written here is nonsensical

@prideofdurham4776 Месяц назад

Two child "cap" will end next April.Why? MPs pay rise due!

@johncollins3391 Месяц назад

No doubt when down in the polls and desperate for re-election,its all about timing.

@kenbushnell4793 Месяц назад

Starmers government will deliver. This a government for all

@jakemiller9547 Месяц назад

The ever growing elephant in the room is overpopulation, which immigration is certainly indicative of. It actually is quite broadly acknowledged these days but there’s still a fear of being perceived as some maniacal Thanos figure when you mention it.

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

Who tf is Thanos?

@jakemiller9547 Месяц назад

@@tatata1543 Reform MP for Uranus

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

@@jakemiller9547 Upticking your own posts, have you no shame?😂

@jakemiller9547 Месяц назад

@@tatata1543 whatever makes you feel better

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

@@jakemiller9547 You forgot to uptick your post😂

@paulbo9033 Месяц назад

"Trust me bro" Complete bs. Stop sending money to Ukraine and Israel, you'd have the money in an instant.

@marvellis6762 Месяц назад

I think it's around 60% in favour of the cap. Yes have 3, 4 even 5 children... and someone else will pay to raise them, can't be right.

@user-gu1un7pb7k Месяц назад

Child poverty is the problem. Those children who are born into that family without the child benefit will be born into poverty. What's the solution? The state takes them away to raise them in the system?

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

So, punish the children for their parents' choices? This is illogical, draconian and frankly impractical thinking. The pragmatic among us (i.e. the *true* grown-ups in the room) care more about dealing with the world as it is (i.e. where, rightly or wrongly, some people do have 3, 4 and 5 children) than how it arguably should be. Sorry for the wake-up call, centrists, but, guess what? In the real world, people don't always make the 'right' choices. That's just the way the world is.

@kevmccormick1767 Месяц назад

It has been proven with the data to back it up, the way to reduce birthrates is to make a place more prosperous. Obviously there is always outliers, but on the whole, if a place is more well off, jobs decent pay decent education etc etc, then the people will have less kids. Oh and I forgot to mention the data and such is not a narrow view of only England, its worldwide data.

@mrDeathtrooper Месяц назад

@@user-gu1un7pb7k why should the tax payer foot the bill because some people are irresponsible?

@GregOrCreg Месяц назад

@@kevmccormick1767 Fine. I don't particularly disagree, especially if this is based on factual data, but that still doesn't make a case for capping Universal Credit to 2 children per family in view of the practical consequences towards children in large families that already exist. We have to treat people as living, breathing individuals rather that as statistics, and coercing people into the 'right behaviour' may be right in principle, but we can't let that blinker us into ignoring the practical and present needs of people right now.

@Dirpitz Месяц назад

That should ONLY be available to native Brits

@Elvin_Pelvin Месяц назад

This was just political spite. In Scotland Labour and the Tories band together to vote against anything the SNP put forward (see 'the Bain Principle'). Had this not been an SNP motion the outcome may (just may) have been different.

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

The SNP lost most of its seats for a reason.

@nolslifegren Месяц назад

Labour Party is dead . Act accordingly ...

@user-nx1jy3tc7i Месяц назад

Labour will scrap the two child benefit cap, eventually. To paraphrase Einstein, eventually we are all dead. To be differently: oh God make me a saint but not yet.

@MrDannyWright Месяц назад

Lots of eugenicists in these comments.

@kenbushnell4793 Месяц назад

The changes to the failed Tory Rwanda circus will save £7bn

@patallen4904 Месяц назад

Scrap child benefits all to gather.

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

All to gather now!

@djohnston6856 Месяц назад

People's family lives are collapsing right now! They need to know that hope is on the horizon and thatva change will come soon. Thus is terrible behaviour and ideology from Starmer.

@marianicholls2741 Месяц назад

Scrap it? So more taxes!

@robinburn4974 Месяц назад

Of course it'll be scrapped they don't call him flip flop for nothing

@neilmarshall2315 Месяц назад

I look forward to the growth of adult behaviour in the UK 😊

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

Don't hold your breath. We have a ever decreasing gene pool.

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

Problem being that he has painted himself into a corner now, how does he avoid being accused of weakness if he does drop the cap?

@Tom_murray89 Месяц назад

When the money is available I reckon. If the tories hadn't of left the country's finances in a mess then the welfare cap would have been lifted sooner in my opinion

@martineyles Месяц назад

There are sources available for the money. They could reduce the higher rate threshold so that I have to pay tax at that rate, though this goes against their policy. However, they didn't rule out an increase in capital gains tax. That doesn't affect me, which is why I also made the other suggestion.

@keithmarshall8796 Месяц назад

Well labour now know what it's like to inherit an economy with no money ie what the tories had to contend with in 2010! But hey let's not remember that !

@billcaldwell395 Месяц назад

Productivity?

@colp9492 Месяц назад

Yes let’s spend more money on these families that pump out double digit kids. If u can’t afford to look after more than 2 or 3 then don’t have more than that.

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

Kids with two fingers?

@colp9492 Месяц назад

@@tatata1543 🤦‍♂️🤡

@tatata1543 Месяц назад

@@colp9492 Words too hard for you?

@colp9492 Месяц назад

@@tatata1543 no mate you just clearly don’t understand sarcasm so I thought I’d use some pictures for you. Why should I, we as a society pay for other people to look after more than 2 children. I’ve stopped at 2 as I didn’t have to means to fund more I wouldn’t expect anybody else to fund 3, 4 or more kids. It makes people reliant on a system. I can also put money on and be about 90% sure that people that have more kids and want more money from the state have mobile phones and other expenses that are considered luxuries.

@danielbliss1988 Месяц назад

12:58 if you're going to challenge the government in a grown-up way you're going to need to do better research than on your recent US punditry for example, but also I think than you have in the past on some of the issues where Starmer is in more difficulty on.

@murrayeldred3563 Месяц назад

Good episode.

@acmdv Месяц назад

6:20 Really? You going there and saying that without backing it up with actual statistics?

@MarjorieStoker-oj8fh Месяц назад

Labour who

@christopherroberts7306 Месяц назад

As soon as Labour work out how to embezzle the money they will spend it and not before.

@robc7162 Месяц назад

Well, the Tories wrote the book on fraud, but then hid it!

@westpoll1 Месяц назад

Yes that will encourage the foreigners to have more kids wont it!

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

No encouragement needed.

@Ashz96 Месяц назад

Can someone explain for me what Marr meant by the gaza problem in relation to boat crossings?

@smartiecooper4702 Месяц назад

He works for the BBC so it would be some woke nonsense.

@jeremywolstenholme9277 Месяц назад

He ment to say Rwanda, makes more sense.

@Ashz96 Месяц назад

@@jeremywolstenholme9277 ahh of course, had a bit of a mind blank there. Thank you kind sir

@John-se3fm Месяц назад

As someone who knows ahout this due to my role, the 2 child limit only applied to Universal Credit and Tax Credit, not Child Benefits. A lot of these parents could work if they wanted to. They can even get 85% of their childcare paid for so that they can work. They already get their rent paid for them. I agree with the cap, you cant just hand out money every time somebody has a child when they don't want to work. If anything, working people should be incentivised to have children