Welcome to episode #7 of Noobs in disguise. Your 7th favourite starcraft II duo lambo and harstem are back to give you some insane Noob in disguise action. Email for replays: Harambosc2@gmail.com
Props to Jackhammered for submitting the replay. The fact that he recognized how great the game was even though he ended up losing in the end, to the point where he knew submitting it would be a good call, just shows how much of a good sport he is. Really awesome of him!
Ok looks like there's 8605 minerals left in the "hidden" expansion. Given a normal base has 10800 minerals the terran got 2195 gross minerals. They lost 14 SCVs and 2 refineries 850 mineral cost plus build and travel time. 1345 minerals net profit. I mean since it's a zerg base you could look at is as they "stole" 2195 and gained 2195 so each mineral from that base is worth double in a split map scenario. I didn't check the gas because I didn't feel like it.
What a move, landing those Vikings. I kind of always hoped their versatility would one day have more of an impact in the meta. This game gives me hope...
TL;DR: the Landed Viking is a compromise of a change to the meta of the SC franchise as a whole, IMO. It's not a Goliath with jump-jets, it's a Gundam without a sword. I find the landed Vikings are in with hydras in that the Goliath and Hydra of Broodwar were a mainstay and in order for SC2 to have more dynamic gameplay they needed to be either removed or nerfed into oblivion if they were to be included for the fanfare. Vikings without the landing transformation would feel too specialized, especially when compared with the Valkyrie; including the Goliath but nerfing it would leave the Terran mech lineup awfully similar to Broodwar and just do what the Thor does for anti air but more badly. The landed Viking transformation lends use (albeit not terribly impactful on the meta) to the air unit and keeps them from just having an OP air to ground attack. TBH I kind of wish they'd done something similar with the hydras. Nix the Hyrda as a unit altogether and make a roach upgradeable into an anti air version of a Ravager or some more Zergy feeling arrangement. Anti air attack for the swarm hosts' locusts. I think the hydras needed to stay for the fanfare, though. Zerg players would have been out for dev blood instead of just ladder blood had they removed the hydra. The goliath wasn't as much of an icon of the faction as the hydra was... is.
@@norberthiz9318 I could've put a timestamp, my comment was in reply to what Harstem says at 3:35. The "low level" was meant in reference to pro players.
Thanks for submitting Z! I'm low masters, I've played against this Terran, or at least this strategy, and it's super frustrating. By the time you realize it's a greedy 3rd, you've cut drones to build spores, lair, spire. I'm glad I'm not the only one suffering. Those were some super low guesses. Zerg did all these Master Level things: Scouted, and confirm scouted, proper ling-bane busts (he intentionally pulled back when he saw double planetary, regrouped, and blew them both up), and the super clever nydus bait. I learned a lot watching this even though the Z lost.
These meta changes are wild. Last week it was drop your ELO guess by 900, this week it is raise your guess by 1k. I have no idea how they are going to adjust for next week.
Watching the Zerg's gameplay and comparing to my own 3.3K MMR it was easy to guess he is much higher. My guess would have been 4,5k. Lambo is clearly more used to pro gameplay than the struggles of us ladder heroes :D
When they say Zerg hit a wall at Diamond. This is why. Zerg encourages learning macro early and they shoot up the ranks, but hit a wall the second they need to add in some unit control. He had a good opener and good instincts, but he really needs to spend some time working on integrating his spellcasters.
Hydras are shit against sky terran IMO. Sky terran is too quick for them. They are OK against mass marines, though, especially when mutated into lurkers. I'm plat, BTW.
From the opening - the Terran knew properly how to do CC first, was late on rax but he actually sent out an SCV to scout at the timing when the SCV would scout after rax first - that requires a bit of thought already but it might be a coincidence. My guess 3500MMR Edit: I was wrong and given the rest of the game I would guess higher, the control wasn't the best, but the macro was really good. I think
I feel like the zerg could have still come back tbh. With that much of a bank, you just need to get a spire up and mass corruptors until your opponent is worn down. If zerg had done that earlier it would have been even better. Make a ton of hatcheries and just instantly remake your army until your opponent is dead. I'm surprised such a high level player didn't realize his bank and production speed advantages and utilize them, but we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
You guys should do some 2v2 laddering together. That would be quality content. And if you borrow some of Harstem concepts like "beating grandmasters with stupid stuff" I am sure it would be a hit.
Played a really weird game the other day. Took my 6 base before my oppinent took their 3rd. Was 10 mins 6 base marge chargelot. He moved out with a slow one one oush at 8 minutes and i surronded with zealots and dismantled eith just insane income
I honestly don't think anybody needs to do the math on the 14 scv's lost. The 14 scv's probably generated around 800 minerals by themselves, bringing in enough to pay themselves off and a little bit. However the 3 mules basically mined for their entire duration, so that's about 600-675 minerals there alone, and all of this was denied to the enemy player. Definitely worth it.
it's not quite as simple. im not saying that it wasnt worth it but you cant compare it to not having the base and the scvs at all but to having them at home at a saver location maybe 1-2 minutes later to be able to defend them.
You hqve to consider that the base in another position would have also mined the same resources. It was definitely not worth it given how the game ended.
How come vikings use a silly machine gun when they're landed? Would be much better if they could shoot missiles halfway across the map while landed as well ;)
Vikings are like marines in that you need a certain amount of them with good upgrades to not be useless but when you have that there's not much that can stop them
Ah yes, nothing such as fungal, parabomb, immortals on the ground, ultras on the ground, storm, hydras, disruptor on the ground, zerglings, phoenix are ok, thors, marauders, tanks, marines...
Hey, you never explain the format of this show in the episode at all. You have to keep it accessible for people outside of your own bubble. There’s billions of people out there. I follow Harstem and I still literally had no idea what this was about for a while. Advice is engagement; you’re welcome
How can a master1/gm zerg have this bad spell caster control AND doesn't even know what unit comp he should go for? He literally controlled those vipers like a plat player. I can't believe this was such a high mmr game
4800 isn't close to GM. The viper control was awful but imagine this guy would play vs a 4k, he'd win without ever having to make a viper. The unit composition was also good, so that's a weird comment.
@@henningbreede6428 the guy is masters 1 that's pretty close to gm. His macro also wasn't good, even tho there was a hidden base which probably confused him, he still should have droned uo much quickly, the Terran was basically even on eco while playing mech(and there was zero harassment). His hive also wasn't very quick. So I doubt he would easily beat a 4k player playing like that Viper corruptor is not a good comp against mass bc. he needed infestors, vipers don't do much even if he doesn't run 10 of them into the bc for totally free. I'm just saying he played like diamond player in almost every aspect of the game, and a masters 1 player should play much better
I do think vikings are broken in general. They are only really weak on the ground to immortals and zealots, and maybe ling bane. I bet one beats a hydra. In the air they are actually weak to nothing, but I don't rememeber them vs carriers, so maaaybe one thing, probably not.
The issue is about DPS density, vikings have big hitboxes and are clunky, they can't stack on the ground. This drastically reduces their total dps compared to marines, hydras, basically everything else. You don't judge a unit based on it's 1v1 potential, if you did the zergling would be the worst unit ever.
@@henningbreede6428 vikings can't shoot vipers? You know you can pull the parasite viking away from the others. fungal does 30, not enough to kill them
5:52 see what i mean... its already too late for a spire. Its 3 bc at a time can teleport anywhere and destroy everything..... like in the next 10 seconds
