Langfiles Ep. 13: Catalan VS. Italian 

In my dialect the simple past is usually the preferred casual way of speaking, even tho in most places it's not even understood

@@cister4708 Interesting to hear the simple past is still used in speech, since the Periphrastic Past is used more

Simple past is used in the south of Països Catalans, in the País Valencià, and in some parts of the Balearic islands. In Catalan Massa also exists as mass (as Continental mass). In Catalan Dar exists too, same as Italian Dare, but is less used or archaic, maintained in phraseology (Més val un té que dos te daré, Déu-n"hi-do)

@@ningunores9100 al país valencià tan sols l'he sentit a la Ribera, els meus companys de pis em deien si compartia pis abans amb Jaume Roig 😆

Tía doesnt exist in catalán , catalán use TIETA

Gallo-Italian languages like lombard are very similar, and italo-dalmatian ones like napolitan or sicilian have catalan influence from being ruled by aragon

@@RoderickVI yes! i learned Abruzzese and it has so many Spanish words..the single letter articles also are similar to southern Italian dialects. a tavola u libru. etc. :) cool

@@robertaiudi6521 Well I don't know about "spanish" influence, as the Aragonese in southern italy spoke primarily catalan. But I suspect after the 1600s a lot of Spanish speakers might have moved in too

True! I'm from Vicenza and "massa" for example is "too much" for us like catalan

​@@RoderickVIpor la Corona de Aragón concretamente

the same thing goes the other way around, for example "però" in Italian it also means "but"

but they use more "má" wich is "més" in catalan, that can mean but, month or more depends accent mark.

No problem!

It shoul be "ahir vaig parlar", yes.

El mateix pasa amb el català

No, non è vero, non sempre almeno, "ma" è una congiunzione coordinativa (di tipo avversativo) mentre "però" è una congiunzione avversativa, nel video lo ha spiegato in maniera corretta, in inglese "però" lo traduci con "however", ovvero "tuttavia", ciò significa che in alcuni contesti il ma non ha minimamente lo stesso significato e non può essere scambiato con però. Es. tutte le frasi di esclamazione o di stupore, tipo "ma no!/ma sì!/ma dai!/ma insomma.../ma allora/ma che bello!", nessuno di questi casi puoi sostituirlo al "però", l'utilizzo è sostanzialmente lo stesso del "mais" francese. Oppure ancora in contesti sostitutivi, "non voglio questo, ma quello", "non lui, ma l'altro", "non questo giovedì, ma il prossimo" insieme ad altri casi specifici.

Thanks. Lots of these ideas come into my head, and I see if many people have compared them, so it's the more out there ideas I try to do.

Yeah, I've never heard that one before

Wow! That's very interesting, because in Catalan we can also say "Em plau qualque cosa" "Mi piace qualcosa" but it's rather formal. Actually, to say "please" we say "si us plau"; literally, "if you so please".

@@channalbertWait. “Si us plau” means “please”, not “thank you” (gràcies/merci).

@@lucasbatista1453 Yep, sorry I was translated into English half-braindead quickly as I was typing. Thanks for the correction!

@@channalbert In my dialect (north Italy) ma pias argot...."argot" is like "algo" in Castillian. In dialect is like that we mix spanish french and Catalan all together. Why speak just one romance language if you can use them all 🤣

It's very close (85% vs 87%)

Just because french has more germanic words, because in all other regards french and catalan are closer. Specially formal french when written down. Pronunciation is the main barrier

@@RoderickVI but the language closest to Italian is French, neither Catalan nor Spanish. Italian and French have about 89% of the same words, but the biggest difference is the pronunciation. French has no more Germanic words than Italian or spanish, most Germanic words are used by almost all Romance languages the word for war: Guerra (Spanish and Italian) guerre (French)

Italian is still closer to french than Catalan lol.

@@Awf00L 89% of the words in Italian are similar to French, with Catalan 87%, the big difference with French is the pronunciation, that's why you understand Catalan better, with Spanish only 81% of the words are the same, but the pronunciation is very similar to Italian, I'm Italian, of course I understand Spanish better than Catalan and French, but the language as a whole is most similar to French, not the pronunciation. The sentence structure and verbs are also most similar in Italian and French. The northern Italian dialects Piedmontese and Lombard are even more similar. i don't find catalan so easy, they always swallow the words and don't pronounce them completely, so i understand spanish better and you can do without your LoL if you don't have a clue. The name says it all "Awf00L"

I moltes gracies per l'ajuda en Chris.

Oi q ets Valencià? Es teu accent em sona molt a Valencià xd

@@kuk2394 ho posa a la descripció, més valencià que la paella.

​@@cister4708 HAHAHAHA es nota es nota, representant caseta com toca B) jo som ben mallorquí.

@@kuk2394 NO a la centralització dels països catalans! He de dir que l'accent més bonic em pareix el salat, la veritat

Got it, got it

No, l'ho già spiegato in un altro commento, ci sono casi nella parlata comune in cui sono intercambiabili, ma di base "ma" è una congiunzione coordinativa di tipo avversativo, però è una congiunzione avversativa, ci sono contesti che richiedono l'utilizzo di uno rispetto all'altro, dire che hanno lo stesso significato è sbagliato.

@@Awf00L Mi potresti dare un esempio di un uso in cui non sono intercambiabili? Edit: già trovato l'altro commento, grazie!

Do other languages of South Italy have pronouns closer to Catalan than Italian?

@@seid3366 I am not an expert on this and not sure of spelling, however in Sicilian when comparing 2 Singular between Catalan and Italian, there is the word 'Tu' in Sicilian which is the identical informal for both. However the formal 'Vos' in Catalan (where the Italian equivalent is 'Lei') compares with 'Vossia' in older Sicilian and Calabrian. Also the Plurals 1 & 2 in Catalan ('Nosaltres' & 'Vosaltres') are often expressed as 'Noiautri' and 'Voiautri' in older Sicilian.

Catalan also has 'llur/llura' and 'llurs/llures' as cognates for 'loro' but it is mainly literary. Italian and Catalan (especially Western dialects) are highly mutually intelligible.

@@seid3366 Lors its rarely used in catalan Els possessius àtons són els següents: Masculí singular: mon, ton, son Femení singular: ma, ta, sa Masculí plural: mos, tos, sos Femení plural: mes, tes, ses

It would have Paul posing in the thumbnail; and he doesn't have an episode counter.

Or Spanish is Catalan with arabic influence ? No, no way ! The simple fact is that Spanish and Portuguese are “free-lance” latin languages whereas the others grew quite together , pretty similarly, but for Romanian.

Not really. Catalan is gallo-romance (like french), whereas castilian and portuguese are ibero-romance. Even if arabic influence was removed from castilian, they would still be very different. Catalan, Occitan and Northern Italian languages are extremely similar

In catalan is the opposite. AGRADAR is the normal verb used, both in formal and informal speaking. You can also use the verb PLAURE, but it is too informal and it sound like medieval talking.

Catalan reached Sardinia, Sicily and Naples, so there was plenty of time for some influence to be imposed on not just standard Italian but also the various languages in those regions (Neapolitan, Sicilian, Sardinian etc.)

Catalan (Occitano-romance) is closer to the Gallo-Italic languages of northern Italy (like Piedmontese, Ligurian, Lombard etc.), so it makes sense that it'd sound like a "western Italian dialect"

Is there a native Catalan word for that?

@@seid3366 Vós is the formal and respectful pronoun to use with strangers, superiors in age or hierarchy.

Que jo sàpiga vosté és tan sols una contracció de vostra mercè. No cap castellanisme sinó una forma genuïna.

@@cister4708 Gracies pel'aclariment

Vostè no ve de Vostra mercè en català, sinó de Usted que ve de Vuestra merced EN CASTELLÀ.

Really ! Thanks for this info ! 👍🏽

I haven't encountered such in my Duolingo journey.

Indeed it isn't. Why?

@@seid3366 it sounds more like Valencian.

Valencian is still Catalan, so I don't see that much difference, besides the accent (including less [ə])

@@seid3366 I think that the most representative Italian accent is that of Rome (don´t confuse with romanesco, that is a dialect).

@@juandiegovalverde1982 The only real representative pronunciation of Italy is what we call “dizione”, which is learnt by actors or people who generally want to appeal many people in their speeches. In this video, the Italian speaker doesn’t speak in dizione, he probably has a slight Piedmontese accents as well (source: I am the Italian speaker)

Català, italiano, español : Parlar, parlare, hablar Taula, tavola, mesa Molt, molto, mucho Porc, puorco, cerdo Finestra, finestra, ventana Perdut, perduto, perdido Etc, etc, etc Easier to speak than think !

Santa paciència...si et pica, rasca!

El grado de parecido es mayor entre catalán e italiano que entre castellano y catalán lo que tiene haber tenido territorios al sur de Italia y haber comerciado con ellos durante más de cinco siglos que al final se mezclan vocablos. De igual forma castellano y catalán no forman parte del mismo grupo de lenguas, pues unas son iberoromances y las otras occitanoromances.

Il lessico catalano e' piu' simile a quello italiano

@@antoni-olafsabater9729 porco in italian

Claro

Lo que tu digas, lumbreras. Que cosas se tienen que leer, por favor😂

@@antoniboixadosbisbal137 Ponte la barretina y baila la sardana 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@manuelmurillomunoz1446 hace calor, para usar la barretina. Sardanas las bailo en Perpiñan, cómo tantos otros catalanes del norte de la frontera. A ver si te vas a creer que me humillas con tu tonteria. Au revoire, monsieur!

Faux ! L'Aranais est de l'Occitan, l'Aragonais... de l'Aragonais, et si l'Alguerès existe, c'est grâce à la langue... catalane. Soit vous êtes de mauvaise foi, c'est-à-dire malhonnête, soit vous êtes d'une ignorance crasse. Faites votre choix !