We are forgetting that Zendaya is a light skin woman. The discourse is mainly in how Annie photographs dark skin black women. There is nuance even in that conversation because colourism plays a part here.
I was going to comment this. I do think Law Roach understands that Zendaya won’t run into problems with lighting and editing because she is light skin. He’s entitled to have his opinion about her work but I’m curious to know if he would have Annie shoot a dark skin client.
Annie is the photographer for the Queen of England. Having her name beside his in the credits is a social mobility move. I’m here for it and fully support him using the opportunity to rise 🎉🎉🎉🎉
She also took some fantastic incredible pictures of that gorgeous young woman. So don’t forget about that, so don’t forget Law knew what Annie is capable of! Annie knows what goes in vogue and Annie knows where the other pictures belong in the world of art unfortunately Miss 24.6 K has no idea that there are different levels and qualities of photography
Lupita and Viola look amazing. I love how she caught the folds in Viola's hand. The beauty of her skin. I love the side view of Lupita, the knots in her hair. I think your biases are peeking through.
Lupitas skin was so conjested. Viola looked dehydrated. You can be authentic without highlighting their flaws. For her to only portray dark complected women in that way concerned the journalist. Anna needs to be consistent in her portrayals. Why would she show Lupita looking crunchy and unkept? The filtration of colors was gorgeous but it seemed harsh and unflattering. I'd be fking pissed🤬 if that were me. I still thing they're beautiful but showcase all your subjects the sane way not just the dark ones. Seems like she was trying to humble those gorgeous women.
This is just one of those things that white people/non Black people wont understand. Those photos aren’t beautiful. They may be shot beautifully but the images aren’t beautiful. And Black women have enough difficulty, especially in couture settings, being denied concepts of “beauty”. So it’s hard for ppl to feel satisfied with these images that seem to exacerbate anti-Black understandings of the image of Black women.
As someone who had no idea about this tea, those photos they clipped in of Viola and Lupita look amazing. It looks very raw, very real, unedited. Thats my initial reaction to just seeing those photos in this moment
The Viola and Lupita pictures were part of a shoot that was focused on a naturalistic deglammed look. Not to include the context is weird. Also, social media loves acting TURNT and LIT when they have no expertise. As Beyonce would say, experts with no expertise. I am glad Law emphasized the professionalism aspect.
100% Context is always key. I remember how they all celebrated Viola without make-up and wig in HtGAwM and I get how "groundbreaking" that was for television where nothing purported as "real" is never ever truly REAL and yet they fail to realise Viola, (and Lupita, Simone, even Zendaya) don't go to bed or wake up in the morning with properly coiffed hair, layers of foundation and contouring, false eyelashes and full glossy lips bathed in soft, flattering light. They don't. We don't. Our mothers and grand-mother's don't. For 95% of the rest of the world the natural deglammed look is our mirror vision, every day. And we 95% live it, accept it, appreciate it and love it. Annie's artistic intent aside, to say those pictures were unflattering and ugly is to basically say those women and ourselves are unflattering and ugly without adornment and that is categorically untrue and highly delusional.
It’s not about glam or no glam, it’s about how to light Black skin properly. Knowing that, go back and look at Simone and Viola and Lupita or Coco. It’s not the same for Zendaya or Beyoncé.
@@dpcisunbreakable As a former model, all pictures are a form of art unless they are for glamour, fashion, etc. The pictures being complained about are really "art pieces" about subject matter. Those pictures were not published without each of those women's consent. Instead of it being looked as a colorist, photographer not knowing how to capture blackness thing, look at it for what it is....raw beauty.
I feel like a lot of people in this discourse, including this interviewer, do not have an eye for/background in fashion and are not realizing that not every photo needs to be the prettiest girl in the prettiest light. Sometimes creating a moody or vulnerable contrast in a photo is way more valuable than just shooting the prettiest photo. You can always buy Elle Magazine if that's what you prefer
This is just one of those things that white people/non Black people wont understand. Those photos aren’t beautiful. They may be shot beautifully but the images aren’t beautiful. And Black women have enough difficulty, especially in couture settings, being denied concepts of “beauty”. So it’s hard for ppl to feel satisfied with these images that seem to exacerbate anti-Black understandings of the image of Black women. It’s not just about the image being “moody” or “rugged”. It’s the appearance of dry skin, looking worn down, etc. the way it’s shot should’ve compensated for dark skin but Annie didn’t. If she had it would’ve landed for many more ppl.
I agree that art isn’t about making something pretty all the time. But I think the conversation isn’t about keeping things “pretty”. It’s a sociopolitical one. And it’s between two black people. Vogue is the standard and commands the media. Media influences how people perceive beauty, what they associate with who and how they feel about it all. For the last 15 years there’s been a push from black women to be represented as what we can be as opposed to what we have been. To be seen as fun, soft, whimsical, vulnerable and gentle are luxuries that we hadn’t been afforded. There’s always been an overcast of grit, strength and bleakness that’s been placed on us. Especially so for dark skinned black women. So for Annie to have a history of reserving those gritty rough shoots for her black subjects and then project that onto the world. It contributes to that dated narrative. Not only does that effect the actor’s reputation and what people are willing to see them as but also the people who look like the actors. Both of these people have a full and well understanding of the impact of image and not just what that can do for the subject (Zendaya) and her reputation and career but also for the people she represents. The interviewer is asking “how could you trust this with what’s at stake?” And Law Roach is saying “because I trust me”.
@@TheSplendidChild Such a well thought perspective. I think you articulated the concerns with way more clarity, including the depiction of Black women in media through history. I was very turned off by her not clearly explaining the exact issue she had with Annie, acting like Annie has lost the talent because she's no longer "that girl"..like what?! It was rude/tacky to say to the best stylist on the planet with all his experience call me next time and I'll give you a better photographer. girl...
I really disliked how the interviewer handled this, ive never seen someone so adamant about imposing their opinions on someone else, so judgey, and theres a way to have that back and forth without coming off as superior and like youre “right” and hes wrong… its a no for me
Yes I agree, and the little smirks and faces - although she didn't raise her voice, felt somewhat passive-agressive and condescending. Good for her as an interviewer she stood for her point, as a woman it is not easy to do. However, the laughing when he would say things she didn't agree with, I could see annoyed Law but he remained professional. And he definitely threw shade her way back in true Law fashion. 😉
who is she and what is her background, expertise etc. I agree with you I did not like her interview skills and I did not feel her respect of his opinions. They can differ but I just dont like her style.
I would normally agree, but I think she represents a valid concern from many dark skinned women about Annie’s recent work. I think it’s preference. But I also think that too often, black women’s opinions about the way they are portrayed is not taken seriously. She stood up for those people. And Law would have responded more harshly if he felt that was necessary because he is a straight shooter. But he handled it delicately because he understands her sentiment. It makes me feel like he respects dark skinned women, actually. I honestly think that’s why he was so gentle and understanding.
I'm black and I really like Annie photos including on black woman 🤷🏾♀️ I guess it's stylistic preference. I like that hollowed out eerie but majestic feeling her photos have. It's very Shakespeare tempest vibe. why cant we show up on those vibes too!
I agree! I think a lot of the uproar about annie’s “portrayal” of black women are rooted in internalized racism. The photos of lupita and viola were stunning. They really so classy and elevated almost like paintings. They have so much substance. A lot of black women want glamour and sexiness but I find that to be rather low brow and tacky. Annie has a very specific aesthetic and it’s the same on every subject she has. Some black people just don’t like it because there’s no glam make up, 40” weaves, extremely sexy body hugging cut out dresses and high heels.
Law Roach is the Andre Leon Talley of his generation. Wouldn't be surprised if he winds up on the editorial staff of Vogue magazine sometime in the future.
I love that she wasn't afraid to ask the tough questions. I also love how he handled these questions. Stand firm in your decisions, Law. That's why you are who you are! And avoiding Annie isn't the answer; Law likely gave her a great education in what to do when it comes to Black skin. She's an icon in her own right, so her work will NOT stop and her shooting Black skin will NOT stop. With that in mind, education is a 'must' so our Black icons don't go out bad when she inevitably shoots them.
I agree with everything you’re saying but I don’t think law educated her. Photographers, especially one like Annie, wouldn’t be so kind to take advice from non photographers
And at least the lady interviewing stuck to how she felt. Seems like even though they didn’t agree, they both were able to express what they thought professionally.
I love this dynamic because it’s a tense topic. The interviewer has a strong opinion on it but Law has a strong ethos and logos behind his decision. I realize Leibovitz has this flattening characteristic in her photos.. they look a little dull sometimes the subject seems so integrated into the background they are almost 2d(specifically in Coco’s). But in the same breath there are details that jump off the photos.. and those details tell a story. Law knows that Leibovitz would capture the story Zendaya naturally exudes. Or maybe the grandeur is why he chose her. Either way I think the spread was beautiful and he made a good choice. Popular opinions shouldn’t always influence your own.
The interviewer definitely comes off smug with all the “hmms” and condescending smirks.. I like the direction she was going then she acted like her opinion was superior or the “right” take. Idk I find people who think they’re the smartest in the room have a lot of room to grow.
I can understand the sentimentality for Law in choosing Leibovitz, but the way she has consistently made the skin of black women (of all shades) look ashy, dull, and flat is extremely disappointing. The cover was beautiful, but the spread inside felt like a disservice to Zendaya and the designers of those beautiful pieces. And it feels like nobody is pressing Leibovitz on making the necessary adjustments (which she wouldn't have to sacrifice her terrible current aesthetic for) because of her name, so it will probably just keep happening. But thank you for asking him about it!
Sorry but she has soooo many beautiful shoots of black women lol. The way she shoots us is the way she shoots everyone so I think this discourse is uneducated (to me)
The world needed this piece of content. Because when was the last time you saw an interview, or discussion, about an arguably controversial topic, that's just a touch messy, but also fully respectful, with a playful back and forth exchange? We need more of this energy. We are influenced. This is more than just a moment.
I lovvveeeee this because the truth is not many photographers prepare, she took the time to study her subject, prepare the poses, her skin tone, her history of modeling and his styling. She already knew the shot she was looking for. It’s not only her work that compliments her legendary status but her actual preparation. They just have to show up. Three shots that’s AMAZING. Her eye is one of a KIND!
Her saying the photos of viola and Simone biles are "horrifying" says more about her perception of beauty than it does about the photographer. They were both photographed in a natural way... way to be biased against your own people girl
This is Annie style, she goes for natural looking thought provoking photos, they have a story to tell it makes you pause, she shoots all her subjects like that even late queen of England. Simon biles is especially gloomy because the accompanying article is talking about her sexual assault, so it fits.
Why ask a question and then tell the interviewee they "should have said no comment?" What good is it to try to silence someone who is just as entitled to their beliefs about art because they don't agree with you and you gave them a "gotcha" question? I appreciate this dialog being brought up and it's an important discussion but I don't appreciate it being framed as a one-sided issue. It's art which is incredibly subjective, and clearly a lot of Black women have been made to feel beautiful and seen by Annie. We can talk about the questionable framing she does of Black women and also acknowledge that some people, including Black people like Law, really respect it and find it beautiful.
Hhmmm the Rihanna shoot was good. And I also feel like the shots of Lupita, Simone and Viola were supposed to be very raw and real. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it. I feel like it captures their realness; no makeup no retouch just raw
This is what I thought as well. But somehow the Simone Biles one was truly horrible. I do wish to know why the “raw” theme always has to apply to darkskin black woma. Like let’s try something else fairy theme/futuristic/glam/oldschool.. somethinggggg
Wondering if she thought they were bad bc they were natural?? Offended by them not being glammed up? We are overly sensitive often bc of our own self esteem
Fashion is an industry just like any other. Think about it from a business, networking, and prestige perspective instead of just an art form and his decision makes sense. Also, the photos came out beautifully, so he was right to be confident in her skills.
This podcaster obviously desired a different lens - a lens that probably believes that those photos, their hair etc were not "presentable" (in a eurocentric way). These women were shot in their rawest form, which honors their NATURAL beauty ...which she believes is "horrifying"...??? says more about the podcaster than Annie. Those photos were exquisite.
Law roach was being honest. He wanted an Annie moment despite all the racial discussions black women having been saying. Zendaya is a HUGE young star, who is biracial, with loose hair gurl patterns and light skin and olive light brown eyes. Of course Annie was going to get this shoot right. Zendaya and Law could took this opportunity to highlight other photographers.😊
He's allowed to work with what he considers legends, that's something in your career in this industry that you may strive for and black people being policed like he is is completely unfair. Annie has shot beautiful images of dark skin black women who all have a great experience working with her just like Law did -- I think this discourse is very misguided
As only a black woman like myself can express it. Dark skinned black women are not needed to always be shot dark, gloomy, hard, rugged, tough, gritty, to be raw when we are in our natural way to show our beauty. It screams, "is that all you see in us??" I don't always want to see the strong and endurance strength of the dark skinned woman. Its such a cliche! Where is your imagination when it comes to us??? Zendaya cannot shoot that way so Annie was cool to make her look her part, in that part, if you know, you know. But we/us dark skinned Sistas come in all ranges of beauty so up your game, and focus on that part like you do for others ok Annie! Thank you, that is all.
I agree on her take on Leibovitz. I think Law is fully aware of her horrible & down right unattractive imagery she creates of black women. All the same, he knew the grandeur behind the US Vogue cover and how important it would be for Zendaya to photographed by someone on Annie's calibre. Law saw the vision that it would do so much more for her fashion career than otherwise. I respect the interviewer for standing her ground in her opinion, but maybe dont go so hard in the paint about it lol industry is industry
I agree. She could’ve done without some of the looks and pausing mid sentence to illustrate her feelings. Say what you think in the most professional way possible. Your passion is still what is going to come across instead of the half sentences. I appreciate that they can have this discourse. He just came off more calm and collected than she did about a heavy topic. And she didn’t quite say what exactly it was about the portrayal of Black women that has Annie coming up short in the community. Say it with your chest. Say it professional and calm and watch how this discourse could have really been even more
@@h3artands0uLLAll the tone checking needs to be deaded. She authentically and wholly responded and it was beautiful. He asked her opinion and she gave it. Maybe you would do it absent of dynamics but that would be YOU. All this damn online projecting and rules. Kudos to the interviewer.
@@toryjei9435 Thank you! The whole reason I come to this channel and not a million other boring fashion commenters online is exactly because of her tone and attitude. And obviously it's working, she's interviewing GD LAW ROACH!!!
This is a very honest and frank conversation. And I appreciate the positions and opinions on the issues regarding Annie. That said, I don’t think it’s some sort of racist intent with Annie though, maybe she’s just b/w tone blind. And honestly, some photographers aren’t versatile. Maybe Annie isn’t right for DARK skin, but Zendaya isn’t that. So perhaps that’s why we got the photos we did.
This man does not allow anyone to make him a victim! He is actually such an amazing asset for Zendaya, and I can’t wait to see what else he does with his talent.
Just found this, and i absolutely love the way he stood his ground!! Also of the way they were both respectful of their opinions! At the end of the day, he was happy with who he chose, and that's what matters! ❤
I don’t think this was an interview, more like an interrogation with judgement. It’s disappointing watching such a good interviewer impose her judgement rather than ask more questions about the Leibovitz shoot.
I think folks have become so used to photo shop, filters, makeup & lighting they don't know what to do when we strip all that away. I love those photo's. They're gorgeous, timeless and elegant.
I understand Law wanting this experience for himself, but I also think he’s so fortunate that Zendaya is not darker skin and is so beautiful in her movements. With another client of a different and darker hue, he might have traded his fantasy for their nightmare images and that’s something to consider.
@@suzannefarrington4143respectfully I think the choice was about the experience he wanted to have and he’s fortunate to have a client who didn’t suffer because of that decision. I wonder if he would have pressed for the same photographer with a differently hued client. Moreover, the issue for me is that AL cannot be trusted by Black women given her most recent work with Black women in totality.
I was looking for this comment 😂 honestly jokes aside I was like how are you so prepared and also did not know Zendaya is a whole dancer aside from her acting!? like I thought everyone knew that
Lemme tell you something about dark skin. Dark skin is labeled when you continually label it. Annie depicted a darker side of reality and ART with Lupita, Simone, and Viola. Simone had been struggling with mental and emotional distress for a while due to criticism from many people. When Simone was pictured as such in the magazine, it gave off that feeling of darkness, void, pain, sadness instead of happiness and cheeky. Do you know why? Because Simone has literally stated so many times, that people want her to be a certain way from her normal feelings. It’s okay to be sad, to take a break, to not smile all the damn time. Do you understand how stressful it is to be a woman and have to act like a “dark skin” woman on the regular. And if you don’t know or understand…this simply means wearing a mask in order to protect your skin from being judged. Viola gave off Raw emotion. She gave off a side that people most likely refuse to see or understand, which is raw natural beauty. Everyone assumes being black comes with extra-ness or undefined characteristics, but she just said “let me show them me.” Why as a black community, do we have to be seen in a flashy way in order to be seen as beautiful? And then we pin complexions against one another instead of teaching others that beauty can be raw, dressed up, contoured, undefinable, naked, dark, light, humored or sexy, etc. Art isn’t about putting an end to its form. It’s expandable beauty.
wow, i just looked up the coco gauff and simone biles photoshoots mentioned and they both looked so gorgeous to me! coco in particular was literally glowingggg in the outdoors shots. the studio shots for both of them definitely had less brightness/contrast, but i thought that was how this photographer shoots everyone? i must be missing something😶
Y’all’s problems and issues aren’t everyone else’s problems and issues. I can’t believe that interviewer was trying to force him to agree. It seems Annie L shoots raw photography and like it or not, that’s how y’all dark skinned women look without the glamour. It seems more so to me y’all don’t like yourselves and when it’s in your face you hate it even more. It is not Annie’s fault y’all dislike yourselves when you don’t have the wigs, makeup, etc.
I can't believe you thought writing and subsequently pressing the submit button for this problematic comment was the move? As a lightskin bw myself, I am deeply offended and taken aback by your lack of empathy and self awareness. Commenting:"Y'alls problems are not everyone else's," as a response to another bw's concern with being poorly captured/photographed by a non-black photographer, is nothing short of disgusting. It is the epitome of gaslighting when people accuse dark-skin bw of being difficult and self-loathing when they express their valid grievances.
The comments here vs the comments on IG are vastly different. I love that she wasn't afraid to state her opinion. She wasn't being bitchy, she was being a good interviewer that has awesome banter.
Law Roach worked so hard to achieve what he had so…. Right now he’s in a position to pick with who he wants to work with. And I believe he will speak 🗣️ up if he something wrong
Annie's photos of black women are super raw and vulnerable. Simon Biles photo captures the weight of the burden on her shoulders, everything she does and who she is and what she has been through (assault etc) and still succeeding so effortlessly at that level, Lupita is so raw not only representing her vulnerability but that of every woman in her bloodline before her, there is something so raw and naked about Lupita's photo it showcases generations of vulnerability. Viola's is so emotional and an image of an emotion I immediately connected with. Those photos are about the person not their image or embellishing it.
Law's mindset is Law's biggest asset period😁. Dude went into that photo shoot determined to come out with what he considers a great Vouge cover and acheived that, period😂. He has a certain confidence in himself and his client, and that's an asset nobody can take away from him😊.
Great intervirw🎉 and Law shows us … you get what you expect from people and situations. He is powerful in creating what he wants without being dissuaded by what has happened in the past or what others think .
Miss 24.6K looking down On a LEGENDARY photographer because she can’t stand the honesty of some of her work! I love the cover of Coco I love the study of Viola Davis & Lupita Nyongo ! I love how much Law was impressed by not only the work, but his own confidence in his decision. This young man does nothing but raise my high esteem of him!
I understand where he’s coming from and her spread is beautiful, however it is interesting that he hasn’t paid attention to the “back and forth” pertaining to the way Annie captures black women when they go so hard for black women. A lot of what they do is paying homage to black women that came before them. His answers had me like, “Law, be REAL.” Maybe photographing dark skinned women isn’t Annie’s thing but since Zendaya is obviously light skinned, it was easier. 🤷🏿♀️
That’s what people get for thinking they know these celebs . Our opinions aren’t theirs. These things we wanna be “woke” about don’t always connect. Law roach wanted his muse a biracial woman to be shot by Annie. Because in his words she’s a legend. And they like her work. And that is okay.
This is why I love Law. He admits that Anne is not perfect. He's so clear and stands on his decisions without throwing anyone under the bus. He trusts himself. Unfortunately Coco, Lupita, Simone and other black queens should have a stylist like Law who deeply cares about you, will advocate for you, and will stand up for his clients. Anne is learning from the criticism.
I feel the question was posed in her previous bad work. But the work with and Law/Z with her wasn’t bad so I don’t know why she would ask him this question but to be petty. Law is a very honest person who truly protects the people he works with or has previously worked with. I saw it with Tiffany Haddish and I see it now too. That just shows you his character.
I agree with law! Honestly I think people just don’t like Leibovitz art style, I don’t think she in particularly makes black women look dull I think all of her work is dull. And just like Anna Wintour she conserves her art style and doesn’t change it no matter who is the subject. Though I will say me personally I don’t like Annie Leibovitz work all too much neither, especially in todays world the dark beach photos & people in old concrete structures is played out.
I think when it comes to photography people don’t understand the art aspect of it. Annie has been known to incorporate more moody, raw, photojournalist style to her work since day one. All of her pictures have this specific recognizable dark look to them. That’s her style. These photographs are meant to evoke more than just “oh this is a pretty picture.”. At the same time Annie has this incredible talent to capture portraits of celebrities like no one else before which is the reason why her photographs always stand out from the rest. In this case I felt like the interviewer was being ignorant on the topic disregarding Law’s opinion even if he tried to convince her otherwise.
Amen, she’s an ignorant that don’t have a clue of good photography, she also has an agenda, frankly Law humiliated her, she didn’t even know that Maisel doesn’t travel, ignorant podcaster
I saw Dune 2. Then I started watching Zendaya’s red carpets for Dune. And I saw him behind her at each one. So, I was like, who dat? Just seeing them together I knew there was something special going on. This interview is my first time hearing him. Wow. Love this.
