Let’s talk headship: A Conversation (Part One) 

I think the biggest issue for men is summary is to submit themselves to Christ first. If you can't submit to Christ's headship how are you going to lead your wife? Through a man's unsubmissive behavior, he desires Christs headship which is above his own. When we look at Christ's leadership, like Preston was saying, He submitted his authority and power out of love for us. So if you're a guy, learn how to submit to Christ, learn the characteristics of Christs leadership in your life, submit your authority and power out of love for your wife, and lead from that posture.

Please don’t ever think this podcast isn’t doing WORK because it 100% is. Jackie can speak about the things in my heart so well and Preston helps me see the ways that marriage is hard for my husband. Can’t thank y’all enough ❤ y’all are my therapist(s) 😂

This is why it is SO IMPORTANT to be careful who you marry. You have to make sure that you talk about as much as humanly possible regarding a wide variety of issues that you are going to encounter over the next 50 years.

I’m glad I have access to this while single. Thank you guys so much for this!!. God bless y’all

“Most of us are regular faced” 😂🤣😂 I felt that!

Lol I’m with Jackie but I wouldn’t say aggressive. I like assertiveness. Let me know what it is and stand in it! Say it with your whole chest…ya know. I love y’all talks, it feeds my soul.

This is where we make the distinction between aggressive and assertive. I like an assertive man when leading me!!

Why am I smiling for 30 minutes like a full blown idiot? The Perrys are bomb. Mat God bless your home.

“It’s exhausting to always have our sins put before us. Relaxing and becoming a safer space leads to trust” Not the exact quote but this is so real and can be applied to all of our relationships with others.

Great convo! My husband is the leader but I handle certain things. We consult each other before making big decisions but if we disagree on something and can’t compromise (which is rare) he makes the final decision. He makes it easier to submit because he is an awesome husband. I say EASIER not easy because the sinful side of me wants to run the show at all times lol

You really have to be “whole enough” and healed enough, confident in the lord and your identity enough… to trust and submit to the lords model of submission as a woman, and proper headship as the man. Ultimately the Holy Spirit gone check both to keep them in their perspective roles. Humility is key. Excellent conversation as always 😊

“Being humble enough to meet them where they are.” That’s good Preston! 👏🏾 I’m learning to not force my husband to talk when I’m ready but when he’s ready. Thank you both for sharing this

Respect to Preston 👏🏾. Your voice needs to be heard EVERYWHERE. homes, businesses, Hollywood. May God open the necessary doors.

As someone who’s currently engaged and has endured long time exposure to the toxicity of my parents’ divorce, I can’t even begin to tell y’all how much this episode means to me. Only God knows how much this podcast has blessed my life. I appreciate the way in which y’all never beat around the bush. It was edifying, convicting and encouraging as per usual. May God continue to bless y’all. Patiently waiting for part 2.

This is definitely a preacher/pastor’s 30 minutes. 😂, I love you guys and your conversations are always full of wisdom and freshness.☺️

As a single, I looked forward to submitting to my husband because that was something I didn't see modeled by my mother in my upbringing. Fast forward to now being 10yrs into marriage. It's challenging to submit to a man who isn't submitted to God. It makes a difference.

Just wanted to say, God blesses me sooo much through y’all’s marriage/ministry. I love you guys and I’m praying the Holy Spirit continues to empower you to talk through these things. It’s healing generations❤️‍🔥

If this how yall talk on a regular basis… yall are great at conversation

Im so happy I'm.not a man because being the Head is a huge responsibility. Your wife and kids life is literally in their hands, Dominance/Headship is actually a humble role.

Not just a lion but a lamb! That’s good. I love the perspective of reality that culture equates a personality trait passivity or authoritative.

You two look great, rested, and are just such a blessing. What a start to Season 5!

Absolutely LOVE 30min with the Perry’s. PLEASEEE post more often🙏🏼🤩 both of you have so much wisdom to share !!

"When he sees Eve, he sees someone who he can love and fulfill the will for his life" 👏 yaass Pres. Say that!

This is beautiful Preston and Jackie, you guys are helping me to understand my husband and myself better.

@WiththePerrys Thank you for this dialogue! My wife felt I am/was a jerk, critical, unloving, unlistening for years. I'm one of THOSE MEN that just want to lead well. I WAS DISCOURAGED by the way my wife wasnt submitting to me or simply being nice/non-petty towards me. She states that Im narcissistic and passive aggressive, but believe she's simply looking at a mirror and seeing her actions but then putting my face on it instead of adjusting her behavior. I WILL say PRAYER DOES WORK! There has been much improvement, but still there are times when she'll be upset and telling I cause drama when I literally and calmly asked one question. I serve and follow Christ and want my wife to join me instead of doing her OWN thing with Jesus. When y'all saud "If you dont feel vulnerable often, then you atent leading as Christ" I felt that! It IS SO HARD to keep being vulnerable...whew thank you... lol maybe too much sharing, but I truly appreciated this recording so IT WAS NECESSARY to comment.

This was excellent truths that will benefit all men, women, married and wanting to be married. The humor is the cherry on top🤣! Jackie is a comedian and doesn’t even know it! Or maybe she does😂

The only podcast that I’ve listen to that talks about “equal submission”. God my god, thank you!

Yes Jackie he said “stifling” correctly ! It was funny when he called you out about correcting him. I could see how “muffle” would also work in the place of “muzzle”. Love this! 😂😊

Such a divinely beautiful conversation!

I LOVE the way Preston put everything. What a wise perspective 💯

I love y’all’s transparency!! This is such a blessing to my 36yrold single Christian life😊. Thank you for letting the Father use you all❤

Trust! When he said that- I was like ahhhhh- That’s the key- make sure you trust your partner or spouse. Also, having that safe place in a person is so important ❤part II please!!!😊

I know I don’t know yall but I enjoy getting a glimpse into your marriage because it’s so beautiful to hear some of the rawness

Preston doesn’t understand how key this was for me, it’s hard to find brothers that will open up in such a vulnerable Christlike way, this was more than a blessing, it was a necessity

Gosh this is so good. I felt the fear of the Lord for any man who practices Christlike headship. Beautiful conversation and exchange Mr. & Mrs. Perry! :)

Whoa whoa Ms Jackie said “Submission is going to come against what YOU (selfishly) want and what you wanna do” 😰 I felt that

Both spouses are to submit. Eph 5:21 KJV. However, we as wives are to submit to a husband that submissive to God. Wonderful conversations between the two of you and I love these discussions.

The degree of transparency in this discussion is so encouraging! Minister Jackie you ask great questions and Minister Preston your accessibility and willingness to give a Man's perspective from the natural to a Christ-centered approach.

What an Honor to be a Patreon member👏🏾

I have been watching you since I rededicated my life to Christ. I am 51 years old and I enjoy every video. You guys have some common sense. I see God glory leading your ministries. You are treasures to my soul. I watch you all the time.

Yess to what you said about what a leader is and also so true …I think men forget or don’t realise that for a woman to submit and trust she first had to feel safe which means the man has to put in effort to be that kind of leader - a loving one. It’s much easier to follow someone when you know that they are also thinking about your well-being and not just their own and are adaptable and open.

Just a really all around great episode. Preston did a great job at breaking down headship and how we as men can do better. I love the balance between you two 🙌🏾

Sooooo excited that season 5 is already here 💃🏾💃🏾💃🏾 thought I'd have to wait longer...lol Thank you to the Perry's for pouring out your heart.

This was so convicting, and I definitely look forward to part two when it comes. I was most convicted by how Preston says he was early on in his marriage. I heard him describing me, help Holy Spirit

Thank you all for your transparency and your diligence to continue to Love the Lord and each other.

That vulnerability portion had me in my feels. Thank you.

Whew!!!! This is going to help my marriage so much. My husband sent this link to me and we both receive this message. It was deep on so many levels. I definitely subscribed to the channel because wisdom like this is refreshing. I have work to do! Thank you both!

"A good leader is one who recognize the strength of those he's leading". That's powerful & although brother Preston said that, I believe this applies to every aspect of our life pertaining to leadership. I see so many pastors take the arrogant stand of feeling they have to be in control of everything pertaining to the church (the departments). Many of them I think are threatened by some of their members (one that may have a particular gift) because they are not secure with themselves, which causes them to lord over the congregation. I believe churches are failing horribly due to this. A good leader understands that one with a gift/talent can be utilized to make the ministry, company etc better.

The way Preston breaks it down, does it for me!!👏🏾👍🏾💯

First time commenting but not my first time listening… just wanted to say say I enoyed all this! And even as a woman it helps me understand a few things that my husband may be experiencing and not sharing with me. Side notes: truly enjoy the jokes and laughter moments 🤭❤

The district manager example is spot on. Beautifully stated!

Y’all don’t imagine how helpful this video was ❤

Everything y’all say is so powerful & relatable! I thank the Lord for y’all & this platform. 🙏🏾💗

30:39 im 19 on my journey learning everyday and this is very eye opening and such a powerful episode 🙏🏾

What an intimate conversation. A lot of great stuff said. That’s being said Jackie said how it’s exhausting to always have out sins out before us and how it is nice to be able to make and mistake without being reminded of it immediately and then proceeds to call him out on mistakes immediately and then states this is problem that he has to address about her calling him out about correcting him out loud. I wonder if they see that?

Thanks for having this convo, guys! ❤

Headship is indicative of authority. We all have a headship given to us, in loving God above all things. This is the first and greatest commandment. When we make this the focus, everything else is worked out.

We thank GOD for you both and for this amazing conversation. GOD bless you and guide you in all your ways!

Love the visible growth, love, and wisdom God surrounds you with.

Straight up this is quickly becoming one of my favorites podcasts

The “muffling” though…. I was really tying to dig into it at first and was cracking up when Jackie was like “um…do you mean…” . 🤓🤣🤣 for real though, this is SO good. There is a series called “A Beautiful Design” that Matt Chandler does…when he speaks on this part about headship and men/women roles, it is very clear and helped me “get it”! So hearing y’all discuss this topic, I totally get it and really appreciate the acknowledgment about how this continues to play out in our current culture…it seems tough to help people grasp, so I’m happy to hear y’all speaking on it. I value your perspective and teaching! 🙌🏾 One thing is for sure…God does not change! His design is His design and he BEEN spelled it out for us.

Oh my gosh you called him out on his flatulence. 🤣 Terrible but funny. Thank you both for sharing. I'm going to ask my husband to listen to this podcast. We both need to grow.

Thank you for doing this podcast. I recently discovered your podcast after listening to better together. I belong to a Kingdom community, and it is a healthy and I thank God every day for my senior elders and the integrity of their walk before and with God. But I tell you it is beautiful to see and listen to you. I am married, and I am still learning about being a wife to my husband. So, thank you for your honest sharing and the transpercy with which you share, and you guys are so adorable correct together.

Thank you for the conversation. I learned an important thing that I knew, but did not know could be applied broadly. When they talk about what is historically true, i realized they are falling into the same trap modern people fall into about modern day relationship. Historically, there were bad men, good men, bad women, amd good women. Who are you choosing to focus on? If you think men are historically bad, then you will focus on all the bad men and that will be your model of men.

I've watched a few episodes and I think this one cracked me up now than any other. Appreciate the honesty and openness from both of you.

Y'all get it right as unto The Lord! This is so beneficial and helpful for so many! Order under Christ is paramount to any other function in life. Once we understand and apply that everything else can align. Good talk/discussion.

This is the best conversation Ive heard on this topic….. SO SO GOOD

I love and appreciate you guys' view and definitions on this topic. Your discussions are refreshing! The fact that each husband (and wife) will have a different view of what leadership looks like for them and their marriages is something I'm going to ponder on even after this video!

🙏🙏🙏 Thank you.... This is just what those straddling the line needed to hear. It's not about dominance or ego, only LOVE

This is so good. Its always a pleasure to listen these two.

I loved this conversation so much. I love your banter I between deep biblical principles for life. I'm single but in prep for relationship in general this blessed me.

New here but appreciate this conversation. What most will miss and what is most overlooked is that the fall came at Adam's eating of the fruit. As Preston pointed out, the instruction was given to Adam. In order to be the head, you must be operating above the expectation/standard of your counterpart.

It's the fact that I have a whole TWO videos to binge on😎 I'm excited, I'm ready. Let's go!

Y’all literally feel like my big bro and sis cause man I needed some help with how marriage works and also working on myself as individual…it’s gets tough sometimes but I’m grateful for y’all platform. God bless yall fr fr❤️🥰🙏🏽

Sooo Happy one of my favorite podcast is back...THANK GOD ALL IS ALMOST RIGHT IN THIS FALLEN WORLD🙌🏿

What I notice is the harmful submission is highlighted in the world. Submission is so complete and specifically mentioned in the word of God as love that balances the relationship. One that has each other serve one another, ultimately both depending on Christ and the trust of Christ in one another. Yet, like Jackie said, your flesh can often be irritated about what you are supposed to do.

I've been binging your podcast and my days my days my days! Yall are something else. Such a blessed family. Because I'm very gentle but I'm stern when I need to be and I thought my gentleness was bad but this podcast was so good. The word 'balance' has been so interesting for me recently. Love it!

You two are a breath of fresh air.

I love this. Future hubs needs to see this.

Such a super dope conversation and presentation of the husband/wife leadership roles in the christian marriage; ( real talk these concepts and principles can and will work in any marriage). My wife and I greatly appreciate y'all's transparency and devotion to JESUS, His Bride, and dedication to partnering with the Holy Spirit in working the Word of GOD into your walk. Salute Perry Family!!! Love&Blessings

I'm late to the conversation but I wanted to comment something that popped up in my head while I was watching. Preston said something along the lines of it being difficult to trust our wives without trusting God, and to add to that, I'd say it's also difficult trusting ourselves to lead our wives and doing it by our own strength because a lot of us didn't grow up with a father to trust, so when we had questions about life or literally anything, who would we ask? Most of us just try to figure it out and then when we hit our face on the pavement, we get back up because that's just how we learned a lot of significant life lessons. And so it can be difficult to trust God as our Father because how do we know he's even there when majority of what we previously learned, whether it was right or wrong, was on our own accord? Being transformed by the renewing of our minds had a whole new meaning for me when I was able to see these issues in the mirror and my lady most definitely appreciated it.

This ministered to my marriage right here. King JC, cover this couple & give them what they need according to your riches in Glory. Love from TKM- Beijing

I'm so incredibly grateful for Papa leading me to y'all ❤️🔥

These podcasts have been ministering to me and in turn, blessing myself and my husband’s marriage!! Thank you!! I would love a podcast on blended families❤️ Blessings Perry’s!!

😅Jackie looking at her husband like “it’s time to start actively worshipping” right now😅 the love and submission between these to are a vibe💪🏾❤️💯

This is an excellent topic and I enjoy the dialogue because it challenges our position of Kingship and Authority. As I Counsel couples, I often remind them of how the Word teaches us in Galatians 5:22 about the fruit of 'Humility' (Meekness), and both parties are responsible for their part in Marriage. Marriage is not a competition or rivalry, but a Covenant and Friendship, and is not going to work if either is a very selfish person.The Father God has clearly established His positioning of Headship in marriage (1 Corinthians 11:3), but there are many who oppose it and therefore unknowingly rebel against it. We must remember that before Eve sinned and disobeyed God, she did not have to be under submission to Adam; it was part of her punishment, and women have since longed for that prior status. In the Kingdom of God, we are all equal, yet this order was put in place for a reason.

39:32 🤣🤣 I heard the snort! Jackie's "I'm here to help" took me out lol. That's our job! To be a helpmate to our husbands. 💜💜 Love you guys!!

Yay, you’re back!! Watching from South Africa.

Straight up truth! Great example of the word and how it fleshing out in every day life. 🙌🏾🙌🏾

I'm not excited about submitting to my husband. I feel naturally my first response is to tell him no or do the opposite of what he suggests.

This is enlightening. I feel like this is a really good explanation of headship.

Very encouraging, thanks for the wisdom Preston🙌🏾

God doesn't trust us but He still never uses control. Never. Love this conversation. So much wisdom. One of the things I noticed in scripture is that in Judges chapter 4 what isn't in the text is a conversation where Deborah has to consult with her husband before she leads Israel in battle or acts as judge. It also never says that Barak (the male commander)is afraid and that's why he says he won't go to battle without her. Our modern version of a Godly woman really often isn't necessarily Biblical.

That's a great point, introversion and extroversion are separate and apart from whether or not someone is passive in their interpersonal relationships. I also feel as though it could be situational.

This was a FANTASTIC episode!! Yall have so much wisdom to share. I would LOVE to see yall do group sessions. Where you are having these conversations with other couples. I find having solid Christian marriage friendships is sometimes scarce or superficial. Yall seem like a couple anyone could just sit and VIBE with 🥰❤️

This conversation is so rich!! Thank you for speaking on it

Wow. Praise God for this conversation. Thank yall.

Y’all make my heart glad 🙂 ❤

This was so good and it really made me think about how this translates into parenting... Would love to hear a podcast on Parenting and Discipline🙏🏾👌🏾💕 God bless you, thank you for what you do

The pencil eyebrow reference has me wheezing! 😂😂😂😂😂