LET'S ARGUE: TikTok Destroyed Steve Lacy 

If only Steve Lacy promoted a slick, minimalist wallet that fits right in your pockets on TikTok, he wouldn't have been ruined.

I think the steve lacy thing is in reference to how the crowds on his recent tour only really knew that part of bad habit. “Blowing up” on tik tok means that a ten second snippet of one of your songs blew up, not necessarily you as an artist overall. It’s worse than getting a lot of casual fans, because even casual fans know a couple songs in full. It’s gotta be seriously disheartening for every crowd on your tour to only sing along to like 10 seconds of your entire set. Edit: I’m aware it’s not every single show where this happens. I’ve just seen a few videos of audiences going totally silent after the “i wish i knew” part of the song because nobody knew the rest of it.

Now steve lacy must turn to experimental hip hop to destroy tiktok

Went to a Thundercat concert in LA, this dude was wasted and ironic as it is, he was cheering while Thundercat was talking about how he was sober ever since Mac Miller's passing. most surreal thing I've seen was when he got kicked out by security and front row attendees for causing a ruckus. dude was literally grabbed by his crotch and thrown over the fence. all while Thundercat is playing his crazy jazz solos looking at the dude getting tossed over by a crowd. the drunk dude's buddy was shaking his head in disappointment after he got kicked.

I never liked the whole "will we eventually run out of art to make?" question because no individual human is ever going to reach the point where they've consumed all art to the point where they are incapable of thinking of anything valuable that hasn't already been done.

Wonder if the Steve Lacy question was more in reference to what he said referring to people just wanting to hear the 1 song at concerts.

I don't mind people having a couple drinks at concerts, but it SUCKS when people drink to the point of getting messy where it compromises the concert experiences of those around them. Falling onto others repeatedly, starting fights/saying rude things they probably wouldn't have dared to if they were sober, spilling their drinks on others, it's distracting at best and dangerous at worst.

Back in 2012 I saw MGMT live at a music festival. It was pretty crowded at the beginning and I was pretty far away from the stage, but after they played Electric Feel half of the people left, and half of what was left was gone after Kids. By the end, I was right at the front jamming to their longest tracks in a very scattered group of people. I only knew like 4 or 5 songs by them at the time, and the concert actually showed me they had versatility and range! The Steve Lacy situation might be a more extreme version of this, but there's always gonna be casual listeners and people who are willing to stick for every song. I imagine in the end, music artists have to accept this fact and great ones know not to get destroyed by it.

Let's Argue, did I destroy my Parent's Marriage like they said? Thanks Mr.Tano

let’s agree: fantano should’ve made the vegan cookies for drake

Rating or reflecting on an album based on first impressions kinda does the music a disservice. Unless you're able to unpack all the sonic and lyrical nuances of a record in one sitting, sometimes you gotta listen to an album more than once to fully appreciate it.

If we can make an entire _genre_ of songs out of Megalovania, we're never running out of music.

The Steve Lacy situation is nothing new. Even Nirvana had a song about their new fans who would go to a Nirvana show but didn't pay attention to the meaning of their songs

Let's Agree: Anthony's GKMC shirt goes hard

Dark Red is still a banger tho, TikTok will never take that away from us

anthony, when u were talking about music lasting as long as time you could say that music is so integrated into so many cultures and as cultures keeps evolving music is still gonna be a huge part of it and of life itself

Let’s Argue: Tony is afraid to review Gizztober because they were too good and he’s worried everybody else will become insecure.

Let's Argue: Melon's shirt is a banger and he should leave a link to where he bought it.

Two drinks makes me a normalish person who can stand to be in a crowded space. Definitely don't get blasted and annoy Agent Orange before puking everywhere. (My apologies to the 2006/7 crew at Mercy Lounge, Nashville)

Has melon seen the clip of the Steve Lacy concert where the crowd only knew the part of Bad Habit that was popular on Tiktok and no one knew the next part? The first question might have been a reference to that video.

I liked this edition of the series. The questions were not dumb and were mostly about the listening experience. These kind of edititions I was looking for in a long time.

To the question about repeating an album over and over, I remember hearing schlangenheim once and I didn’t get it at all and tried so hard for like 2-3 listens. Gave up but came back during Cavalcade, and it’s now one of my most repeated albums in my rotation. Sometimes just trying to understand a well received album will open you up to so much more once those dots connect. Remember, it’s supposed to be fun not a competition!

god that last take is so braindead. literally all of my favourite albums i’ve been iffy on with the first listen, and only over time have they become my favourites. imo any worthwhile piece of art requires you to sit with it and really absorb it, which you just can’t fully do over one singular listen of an album

"Do not drink at concerts" is such a "i've only gone to big venues" take. I cannot even fathom going to a local punk show without getting some degree of drunk before, during or after. House shows too. Lets you loosen up enough to have fun and enjoy the vibe.

On the listening multiple times thing, Devin Townsend is a good example of an artist that I typically take a couple listens to like when it's his less heavy stuff. His new album took a couple listens for me to get on board, on first listen I didn't really get it, but Devy is my favorite artist, so I gave it another shot, and I absolutely adore it

Just realized Melon's wearing a GKMC shirt, that's sick. Where can I get one?

Hot take: Fantano has been choosing the most boring tweets for this series for the past few months

I have thought a lot about the possibility of exhausting all potentially unique ideas, and there's just no way. Every idea can be recombined with other ideas in novel ways, in novel contexts, etc. If anything this idea, when thought out all the way, reinforces the notion that the best music is more than just the sum of its parts on paper. That's where the individual expression comes into play.

honestly A7X does go hard tho, i used to be a big fan but it still hits hard when their tunes come on shuffle. it’s probably nostalgia bc i remember playing COD and vibing with avenged lmaoo

Blinded in chains by A7X is a pretty distinct sounding song that sets them apart or song including the drummer's proficiency and the guitarist's melodic solos with the thirds harmonies

Listening to an album more than like 2 times means youre forcing yourself to like it? That makes no sense, why would anyone would waste their time like that? Im more of a movie buff so if i compare to my favorite movies, i've one one 4 times and I still find hidden secrets in the movie that make me like it even more. You grow constantly and havw different viewpoints every year. Its actually important to revisit past works of art and naturally start either appreciating or hating after a certain time

Good album grows on you. Sometimes at first listen, youre on the fence but u kept going back trying to make sense of it then, it clicked at a certain point. If the albums bad I wouldn’t even go back. There are albums where i kinda liked and it took me like monthhsss to actually be like: wait this is actually the best album ever

Some of my absolute favorite albums and artists took multiple listens to start to appreciate and understand, like animal collective. Same thing with flavors. Used to not really dig onions, mushrooms, parsley and cilantro, but now those are some of my favorite flavors.

one of my favourite albums of all time (ceschi's broken bone ballads) made zero sense to me the first time i listened to it. i moved on with zero guilt. but then i was drawn back for some reason, and it still took me a dozen or so listens before i understood the sound. i get not wanting to "force enjoyment" of any art, but trust it can be entirely genuine, and as rewarding as any other experience, to reconsider and find new details to appreciate.

i don’t think steve lacy was ready to blow up like that and i think it shows, i hope he’s doing well

Imagine melon telling people not to get super drunk well actively double fisting tequila

Hey thanks for responding to me Melon man! I just wanna say, I wasn't really going for what you took from my Avenged Sevenfold take, I was mostly just using Buttrock as a genre description, not an insult. Kinda sucks you took it the wrong way and focused on that, but nice to finally be in one of these anyway. I stand by my take that they're actually pretty good.

From what I've seen of Steve lacy and some from other artists tik tok allows for parts of a single song to get super popular and outside of that people don't know anything. It's weird when huge chunks of a crowd only know a chorus

If an artist didn’t release a song…there’s usually a good reason they didn’t release it. Posthumous stuff is usually almost always bad or just meh. There’s a reason they were shelved

Conversely, I've hard albums I really loved at first, but didn't hold up on repeated listens.

I first heard about Steve at the Internet’s Palace/curse song when it came out, I liked his aesthetics After that, I really liked his projects. Steve Lacy’s demo’s project made me a really big fan of him and I constantly played songs like Ryd, Some and Thangs And it really got me into the chill/R&B hip hop /soul Personally, I didn’t really like the Apollo XXI project except for a few nice songs Then, when The Lo-Fi’s came I started listening a lot more to him, I think that this project is so underrated and a lot of people haven’t even heard the all album, but there are some hidden gems in there. When the first singles off Gemini rights came {mercury, then (bad habit 😢), (Sunshine 😍😍) } I got back to consistently play his new music + old music Steve Lacys Gemini rights project is nice but because he got so popular off TikTok because of the bad habit song personally I really got disappointed and now, even though I really like his songs I listen to him less, it is disappointed me that all of my friends didn’t like him when I told them about him like 2-3 years ago and now they be like his day one fan😢

Idk getting slipped before an event has always helped me but other ppl can't handle that or have a different way of remembering/enjoying things. I've noticed that I have a more vivid experience with certain events while being pretty much floored.

The Injury Reserve album By The Time I Get To Phoenix is proof that we are not in the slightest bit close to “running out of music”

LETS ARGUE: WE NEED MORE LETS ARGUES

Honestly the Steve lacy thing has my head hurting, I hate that people went to the concert not knowing the songs that’s sum dumb shii. But I’m happy he’s getting more recognition he deserves it.Glad to say I been here 😩

I'd say I listened to many Steely Dan albums as a teen but now I'm in my 30's I like practically every one of their songs. Hated it at first but now one of my fav bands ever.

I think that person didnt call A7X buttmetal as an insult but rather just used the term because it’s kind’ve turning into an accepted genre label… I enjoy lots of buttrock bands and still refer to them as such because they’re commonly grouped that way. Felt like a very cop out response to their comment lol

it’s crazy that we’re discussing over-drinking bc I just got out of rehab!

Definitely agree with your take on the last one. The first time I listened to The Black Parade by MCR, I absolutely hated the song 'Mama'. I did not get it. Fucking hated that track. But then I went and saw them perform it live during the US tour for that record and it was the best song they played that night. Blew me away. I love that fuckin' track and have ever since then.

As far as listening to a record 3+ times to call it perfect, for me it depends all about headspace. Sure, I generally know first listen whether or not I like an album or artist, but I won't call it "perfect" until multiple listens. And even then, I have to be in a headspace where I completely get and understand the record.

"Yeah i don’t vibe with this dumbass take" is my favorite Fantano quote

the thing with listening to an album more than once: Does that person know you can also just listen to an. album u think is good and the more u listem to it you like it less and less?

Anthony, we are waiting for you to plug those funky lil album art shirts you’ve been wearing. WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THEM??

That column on the right is the clear winner. So many banger business email cliches in there that hit you with a twang of anxiety, guilt, anger, and a general hatred & contempt for everything & everyone!

I'm not a huge A7X fan but I never understood the hate.

i love watching these and seeing my opinions parroted back to me

TikTok did not destroy anything he just got popular in the mainstream. More concert goers are going to be the general public that will have less respect for his privacy. It’s been happening for years long before the internet. Nirvana was a big example.

Melons definitely wants to destroy Steve’s Lacy

The point about how trying to convince someone that “this buttrock band sits miles above their peers” is kind of already admitting defeat is true in a sense, but i think the larger point is that A7X is unfairly lumped in with that style of metal despite not actually belonging to it. They have 1 butt rock album, it sucks ass, all of their fans think it sucks ass, and nearly every other album of theirs is pretty respectable and inoffensive mainstream metal. They even have some great albums in Nightmare, City of Evil, and The Stage.

The relistening album statement I don’t agree with only because there have been albums that I initially hated the first time round but later on really enjoyed

I sometimes have this thought when I think of music that it will get to the point where fart noises will unironically be put into mainstream music and nobody will question it. The question about running out of music reminded me of it lol.

Liked your explanation and points made on the whole “will music still be made in the future” thing.

On the last take: one thing I've noticed is that there is some music that is made to grow on you and takes into consideration that you may be attempting to memorize it (Meshuggah comes to mind) and they are able to play upon that, and ultimately relistens can be more rewarding. Also, there are certain artists and albums that took me quite a while to understand, because I am always growing and changing as a listener (example, it took me months to get into Radiohead fully)

Sometimes I discover a new artist and it's love at first listen, and if they happen to be touring near me, I'll want to see them live. Tiktok kids get too much hate. They're willing to discover new artists and legends alike, and they even support them in concerts. Easily the most open minded generation ever in terms of music. Sure, they have short attention spans, but as they grow, their taste will develop into its own, at least they will have experienced a wide variety of sounds. Are we going to judge them just for not knowing lyrics. Tbh, I don't even like singing along like that. No artist's concert should strictly revolve around that (not saying Steve Lacy did btw), there are other ways to get energy from the crowd.

We need to get justice for butt rock, some of that ish hits hard

Drink at a concert, but don’t bring drinks into the mosh pit

It takes multiple listens for me to even piece together what it’s all about. Hell, sometimes you may even realise what specific lyrics are after multiple listens

Lol I got drunk at the Earl concert. Sucks cuz I don’t remember much of it and I was really looking forward to it

getting pet sounds took me more than 3 listens and now its my fave album

Ngl if someone asked if I wanted to check out the "Butt Rock Palace" I'd be pretty interested in seeing what it's about....but as funny as it would be, I'd be Hella disappointed to find out it's only an avenged sevenfold building

I agree with Avenged Sevenfold being underrated/overlooked by music nerds and critics. Not all of their albums are great, no doubt. But City of Evil is a classic and more progressive than it's given credit for, the self-titled album is quite good, The Stage is great, and imo Nightmare is good as well. But especially City of Evil. And the band members are very technically skilled. Avenged Sevenfold is not butt rock. They got lumped in with that because of some of their additions and some of their fans. But they aren't butt rock. Maybe "Hail to the King comes sort of close to that", but they have lots of great stuff.

no one gets shitfaced at a concert because you have to meneaver through a large crowd just to get another drink

Concerts are a lot more engaging for me if I had a couple beers. I'm way too self-concious to just vibe sober, but after a few drinks I have no problem dancing and singing with people.

This is why I stay off Tik Tok, so it doesn’t ruin everything that I like and or might be interested in. I simply enjoy stuff that I like 💯

I NEED that GKMC shirt. At least I think that that is what it is 😂.

The drinking tweet is so so silly. Having a little cold beer before the concert can’t hurt nobody.

People are wayyy too eager to hop on the whole "TIKTOK RUINED STEVE LACY" train. It's like they don't want to see him succeed anymore just because of some new fans they deem annoying. Do like the guy's music or not? If the answer is yes, then all this other shit is just extra. It doesn't matter. He'll get past this little era.

People getting mad at Steve Lacy are dumb asf tho. Like if you’re gonna chuck a camera at an artist and hit them completely against the rules, you cannot get mad at them if they react. And yeah when you got a bunch of fake TikTok fans who only know the words to a hook in one of your songs taking up 70% of the audience that would irritate me too. If anything I feel bad for the guy but hey at least he’s getting that bag

Anthony's shirt is freaking lit

Can't believe Melon used this whole video to talk about how much he loves Drake.

LETS AGREE: fantano should tell us where he got this shirt it’s 🔥

I think tiktok actually did ruin Steve Lacey. It's more about the entire cycle of the songs blowing up, Steve not meshing well with a crowd of casual listeners, and then everyone on tiktok making fun of Steve for being rude to his fans. I think Steve has been in a lane of music for a while where his fans are really invested In his music, and steve wasn't ready for the broader appeal and more casual enjoyment of the new album, and now he looks pretentious for it. Still redeemable and a talented musician, but a soured perception like this towards an artist can make or break their success. Even if you're the most successful artist you're still going to have people at your concert who don't know your songs that well, you shouldn't make them feel bad about that, it's your chance to make an impression on them live

Would be honored for you to roast/rate my top 10 albums of 2022 so far (no particular order here): NOT TiGHT - Domi & JD Beck Infinite Falling Ground - Ivy Lab Mahal - Toro Y Moi You Will Never See Heaven - Shinra Knives Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers - Kendrick Lamar Closer - Noisia More D4ta - Moderat A Light For Attracting Attention - The Smile Cry Sugar - Hudson Mohawke Ultra Truth - Daniel Avery

melon's t-shirt is the best thing I've seen today

fantano should play the screen shot riff for the next let's argue

Bro I need that shirt in my life

A7X had a song with polka beats and oboes and clarinets and shit. very intellectual and underrated.

I was front row with some friends at a concert, and a drunk woman stumbled up to my friend and proceded to throw up all over his shoes, and then she ran away. lol

having a few beers at the carly rae jepsen concert absolutely helped me enjoy it more. even started listening to her on my own because it was such a fun time

2:24 Reminds me of that Eric Andre Show episode where Hannibal tells Asa Akira that we have enough porn.

a single drink and i am much more comfortable at shows but only one

That listen to a album 3 times take is especially dumb for genres that contains rapping. In which it might take second or 3rd lessons to fully understand references or later visit a track while mire wise & be more aware on what's being referenced

No one's asking the most important question: where can I get Antoine's shirt?

Dear Tiktok, there's this incredibly bizarre concept that's been in development. It's called listening to the entire song and not just the hook or one memeable part. It's really cool, you should try it sometime

I’ve never understood how Avenged Sevenfold keeps getting labeled as butt rock. Dude had a point other than thinking they’re butt rock. For example, The Stage is a fantastic concept prog-like album.

I think the Steve Lacy question was more talking about the Nirvana effect that he has around him but worse since instead of how most people at the time only knew the song Smells Like Teen Spirit, people only know like 5 seconds of his songs and go just for that, which no matter how much money you make from it, it’s disheartening to the artist and once the new song for TikTok comes out, no one will care about that artist cause they only cared about like 5 seconds of a single song.

Being labelled a Tik - Tok artist is a fate worse than death

1:23 Fantano acting the most Italian I have ever seen him act

Drinking, smoking or whatever you like only makes it better. If its not your first time you know how much looses you and makes you more euphoric. You dont have to do anything but ppl do it to enjoy it more, not to ruin a great experience

6:55 I once got in the car and my gf at the time was playing the "Alone and Suffering" interlude from that album