Newest updates to Resolve have changed the selections unfortunately. You can check off "atuomatic color management", select custom, then choose input, timeline, and output color spaces. Select rec2020 HLG (or your proper input color space) for input, select Davinci WG/Intermediate for timeline, and rec709 gamma 2.4 for output. Leave DRT's on Davinci unless you want to change these settings for some reason. This should provide you with similar results.
@@TonyDae Hey there! This is a bit confusing for me - any chance you'll update this video for the new Resolve version? Your original video was a game changer for me, I hope you will! Thank you!
Thank you a lot Tony! I like the way you explain everything. Btw you have an amazing voice. It's sound like from the radio, very professional. So happy to find this channel.
A huge thank you man!!! Finally I can figure out what mystery is happening between my sony camera, davinci resolve and my SDR screen!!! The best part is that you don't need an HDR screen to use this workflow, and since I spent all my money in cameras and gear, that's great new for me! 🙃
Thanks for making this. I mainly use Premiere but I tried so hard to transform HLG rec2100 in rec709 yet all results were kinda bad (I am not experienced in colour grading but I followed some tutorials and the results were still less than decent). I decided to try doing it in Davinci Resolve and your quick tutorial helped me out sooooooooo much. Thank you very much!
I just tried this out with my GH5 HLG and I'm blown away by the image it puts out after following this tut and selecting HDR to SD in colour management... Going to be interested to see how HLG matched up with my Lumix S5 and BMPCC 4k. Thanks for this, really simple to follow.
@Alexey Shevchenko I have found that Davinci Resolve's color management is the easiest way to get started with any acquisition color space. It does most of the work for you and the new Resolve curve for output is very close to the Arri Log C lut output save the midtone saturation and the input transform for the new Davinci intermediate color space works extremely well for HLG/HDR footage.
Thanks so much for posting this video - I'm still learning HLG and every time I hit a bump I come back to this video to reset and it always works. Question though: If I shoot HLG3 Rec2020, do you know which input color space should I select? (There's a bunch of different options for Rec2020). I'm guessing I should not set it to HLG2100. (I shoot on a Sony a7iii). Thanks again
Great video, thanks! I’m just starting to learn. With my Sony zv e10 camera, I’m using HLG3 BT2020, and using the Leeming lut for now as a newbie. I’m exporting these videos for upload to RU-vid. Per the Leeming guide, in Davinci my project settings are; Davinci YRGB (NOT the color managed), Timeline color space - Rec 709 gamma 2.4, and tetrahedral. The results are great. Also, I experimented with using other timeline color spaces, color managed, and wide gamut, but with only using the lut and not manually color grading, the results were reddish or over saturated. For delivery to export there’s no guidance. Do the following export settings for Davinci look right? Quicktime, H264, Hardware acceleration checked, Frame Reordering checked, Force sizer / debater highest quality both checked, and finally Color Space Tag and Gamma output set to Same as Project (not sure if I should select something else vs. “same as project”).. Thank you!!
Hey Tony! Thanks so much for letting us know about these things! 😀 Noob question - I am not so acquainted with Resolve since I have been editing on Premiere Pro all my life. So, there's this music video that I shot in HLG - BT2020. So, is it okay to just drop the clips on the Premiere timeline and start correcting/grading straight away? Since I have heard that Premiere transforms automatically to Rec.709? Or will it be more beneficial if I invest some time learning DaVInci and later use that DaVinci 17's Color Management thing where we choose the color science as "DaVinci YRGB Color Managed" and the Davinci Wide Gamut?? (I don't have a HDR monitor btw)
I cannot speak to whether or not Premiere is good for grading HDR footage or not as I don't have any experience with grading HDR in that program. I can tell you that in general, grading in Premiere has a lot more limitations than Resolve and I am pretty sure that it does not automatically convert rec2020 color space into rec709, but of course I could be wrong about that. You will most likely require a LUT for this. If you are grading for Rec709 delivery, you will not need an HDR monitor in order to grade HLG footage FOR rec709. In fact, I have HDR content on this channel that I graded using a rec709 monitor (only has HDR10 which isn't "real") and simply changed the outputs for HDR10+ delivery. Not perfect, but it allows you to make content for HDR10 without doing anything much extra at all. What matters for me is that HLG is interpreted in a way that makes it easy to get the looks that you want which includes control. With Resolve, you will be able to work in wide gamut and log color space using this method which usually makes the controls quite a bit easier to get what you want compared to working in HLG. If you dive even further into Resolve, you can take your HLG footage and transform it using REDIPP2 Mapping for excellent results with little effort at all. If you would like a bit more help with understanding the capabilities of HLG in Resolve, please check my ABOUT section and send me an email with a sample image or two (like 5 second clips, nothing huge) and we can explore it together.
@@TonyDae Thanks a ton for taking out time and answering me! Appreciate that so much! : ) I am switching to resolve for sure after seeing the controls that we get for color management! But, I have 2 more doubts? (If you can clarify, it will surely help A LOT! ) 1) If we are selecting DaVinci YRGB Color Managed and the Wide Gamut thing for our project while working on a laptop screen (my case here) to have an output color space of sRGB (since laptop screen), what's the use of selecting the wide gamut in the first space since I won't be seeing anything that lies outside of sRGB space, right? : ( 2) Okay this one is a bit tricky for me. Say that I have 2 footage: A - rec.2100 HLG original right out of camera A'' - The exported version of A from After Effects since I had sent A for Mocha Stabilization. And then, I exported that in ProRes 422 HQ. I did NOT do any color grading or anything. Brought in, stabilized and exported. When I bring these 2 to Resolve, with all the settings you mentioned, footage A behaves as the way as expected but footage A" does not. And this is kind of a bummer coz I have a music video laid out with normal shots and stabilized exported shots and while doing the XML, this thing can hurt a lot. Sorry for the long text but would you like to guide me? Thanks again, in advance!
@@TheBhavyaShah 1) The working color space is not the same as what is displayed. Your working color space can be very wide in order to make more fine tuned adjustments or can be used to make sure certain values do not get clipped. Working from rec2020, a much wider color space than p3 or rec709, can be clipped in a timeline color space that is smaller than rec2020. The wider gamuts ensure that no color values are clipped or compressed while working on it. We also work in wide gammas that can bring in over 15 stops of dynamic range even though rec709/sRGB can only display around 6 or stops. Working in the wider gammas allow us more control without dealing with clipping. 2) WHat likely happened was during the transcode, your file's gamma/color space tags were changed to rec709 scene. You will need to manually select the correct color space/gamma if this is the case. In the color page, right click either the file or the thumbnail above the time line and choose the correct HLG color space/gamma.
@@TonyDae Sure! I got it perfectly now. Thanks again for the wonderful insights Tony! One last thing : ) I went to after effects to have the color space/gamma selected but it's showing a WHOLE LOT of options :/ and that got me really confused? It's having rec2020 gamma 2.4, rec2100 hlg scene with different W values (100,75,63,81), rec2100 HLG W100,1000,203,300 and some rec2100 PQ thing. Any suggestion on what to choose here? I mean in camera I had just chose HLG3 with rec2020 as color, that's it. Thanks in advance! : )
My assumption is that rec2100 HLG scene is correct. The W value for HLG3 is likely 100 as that is the maximum EV percent for "white" level for HLG3, but I am not entirely certain. Rec2100 PQ is a deliverable or working option for HDR that is not HLG. HLG is basically a gamma level that can be used for both SDR and HDR display, rec2100 PQ can only be displayed in HDR.
Thanks. What's the best practice on the xrite color checker in a less controlled environment, like run and gun travel? How often will I need to include the color checker in the frame? There's gonna be green shade from grass trees and at other times blue from water (ocean) or brown from pavement etc. Sounds like a nightmare to control...
If it's people in the shot, always balance as well as you can for skin tones. Use color checker if possible to set wb quickly. In post, get a general white balance and use an 8 point color warper. Push the yellow hue angle towards orange, push orange to move skin along the skin line, push green towards yellow and desaturate, push blue towards cyan. If skin tones are catching green and yellow still, desaturate green and yellow. Too much blue and cyan, desaturate blue/cyan to taste. Luma/saturation curve to decrease saturation in deepest shadows and highlights if desired. This is harder too do with 8 bit capture but it's possible. This is essentially a lighter emulation of a popular Kodak film print and I use this all the time when I've got an ugly green cast from poor house lights or exteriors.
3 года назад
Thank you for this video, in resolve 16 I use this workflow but also with luminance output nits (default at 100 nits) at 500-900 nits... Can't seem to find that feature in resolve 17?
I'm having a weird problem, this all worked for me and it felt like I was getting better color and expo out of hlg (I'm used to cine) but when I went to upload to RU-vid it darkened the image significantly and I have no idea why because the exported file looks fine. It seems like the second I plug the exported file into RU-vid it goes haywire and tries to bump the contrast or something along those lines. Do you know what may be causing this?
Hi Samuel, The reason you are likely having this issue is that RU-vid does not play back the gamma tag chosen correctly. In your export settings, manually change the output gamma to "Rec709" and this should fix the issue as it will give you a "what you see is what you get" output. You do not have to do this when playing back in a player such as VLC because VLC will recognize the gamma tag correctly.
Couple of questions: 1. When using RCM conversion from HLG there appears clearly visible red tinge which needs to be toned down every time regardless of the original white balance settings etc. What might be the reason for that (using Sony A7C)? 2. The conversion results seem to differ slightly but nonetheless noticeable on the scopes when RMC is bypassed and Color Space Transform (Resolve FX Color) is used with the exact same settings (Rec. 2100 / Rec. 2100 HLG (Scene)). However, I’m not sure it can replicated every time but I have often found this to be the case. What makes it a bit strange the same doesn’t seem to happen with S-Log. Could that be due to bypassing the timeline color gamut, or something else?
RCM's input transform has a particular way that it inputs hlg to conform to its timeline color space that might be slightly inaccurate but to my understanding is how resolve ingests the gamma for it's automatic settings to get the better overall image and working gamma. If you use custom settings in RCM you can change the input mapping from Davinci which will give you similar results as using the cst and hlg scene. Hlg is tricky to conform to my understanding and the Davinci RCM presets are designed to maximize efficiency and effectiveness of working with HDR. Slog isn't new and is more of a normal capture color space for grading which is likely why there's less variation in transforms. Hlg isn't really... It's a delivery color space to my understanding. The color issues are likely because you are using rec2020 with an 8bit codec, so it can't really map the values correctly. Sgamut3 in 8bit won't be accurate compared to 10 bit either. Rec2020 is minimum 10 bit for delivery so when you're choosing a codec that can't really encode all the values it does it's best but it's not exactly accurate and will need adjustments.
With an xrite colorchecker card in the shot, is there is a reason you didn't use the card with Resolve's Color Match facility? Even for a base starting point before the grade?
I never get that tool to work correctly when using color management and it truncates values similar to using a LUT when I do get it to work outside of color management. I find this tool mostly useless for my purposes.
Any idea why I can’t see the waveforms with my HLG footage from GH5 on Reslove? I also have some issues with the final render file where colours seams a bit of to want I have on the timeline, even if set to SAME AS PROJECT in render colour space. All suggestions much appreciated.
Hey Tony, thanks for your sharing this is really informative. But I just found out that when I use Davinci Wide gamut, the fusion titles turn wrong. Like white just becomes grey. Do you know how to fix this?
Thanks for the insight. Any chance to get tutorial how to grade Cinegammas (Cine1, 2, 3, 4), especially with S-Gamut3.Cine, as there seems to hardly any info out how to transform it properly in DS?
Not sure what DS is, but the cinegammas are essentially a flatter rec709 curve. If you use any cinegamma, it will technically be a rec709 curve with certain parts of the curve adjusted before it bakes the curve into the capture... kind of like using curves and adding an increase to shadows or decrease to highlights. For color, it will have to correspond with whatever you picked... pro or itu709 or Cinetone are all technically rec709. SGamut3.cine is a wider color space than rec709 and P3, so it will be naturally different from rec709. So, we will explore some input gamma and color below depending on what you picked... If you shot Cinegamma 1 and ITU709: Gamma = Rec709 Color = Rec709 If you shot Cinegamma 4 and SGamut3.Cine: Gamma = Rec709 Color = SGamut3.cine If you shot Cinegamma 3 and Pro color: Gamma = Rec709 Color = Rec709 These will all likely give you different results, but they would be correct transforms. If you chose Pro color and made manual changes to the color values, you have essentially baked in color tweaks to the image and there is no mathematical calculation that could automatically account for these and give as accurate results as shooting a more common and unchanged color space such as SGamut3 or SGamut3.cine. SCinetone is essentially this same thing.... it won't necessarily be as accurate as doing a direct transform from the SGamuts because color tweaks have already been baked into SCinetone that makes it less accurate compared to SGamut3 on purpose.
DS meant DR = Davinci Resolve. That seems to be the usual workflow. However, to my understanding all cinegammas have some sort of logarithmic curve just like S-log and HLG, just not as flat as the latter two. As far I know DR does not have any color managed transform function profile for cinegammas which means the gamma transfer has to be done either manually “eyeballing” or by preset LUT. Overall I think cinegammas could facilitate better mid-tone/skin-tone presentation when working with 8-bit codecs compared those more flatter gammas meant for 10-bit.
They are definitely not your normal rec709 or log curves but my understanding is the closest gamma would be rec709, like cine-d. Once you've got the contrast right the first time you should be able to save a lut or power grade to make up for the lack of input options.
I point out that Resolve automatically chose the input color space that was tagged in the file, so I just went with that. I didn't choose that input color space, Resolve did based on what it was fed from the file.
This looks great, but it doesn't work for me for some reason. I have Resolve Studio 17.2.1 and recorded everything on my a7C HLG3 BT.2020 detail -7. When changing the color management per the instructions I can see the colors improve significantly, and I can see it has automatically selected Rec.2100 HLG. However, when rendering it in the Deliver tab, it doesn't show a progress percentage even though my Alienware R13 i7 GTX1060 16Gb RAM does seem to be working. After 8 hours still no result or change. Not sure what is causing this. Even if my hardware isn't the newest, I would at least have expected slow progress.
Try checking your delivery options and choose NVIDIA instead of native and see if that helps. This isn't a color management issue, its more of a hardware or software hiccup that is independent of color management, so you're going to have to trouble shoot that.
@@TonyDae thanks for your quick reply. I think you're right, but I have tried everything you mentioned and haven't found the issue just yet. I think I'll have to find out how good BMD's support is. Also without any changes to color management it will play, but won't render with these source files. Very strange.
I think I have found a short term solution: rolling back to version 16. It seems to be rendering now. This is a bit unfortunate as I liked some of the new things in 17. Especially the looks, the built in transitions and the AI masking. Then again, it did feel quite sluggish on my machine so I will try it again once I get a new one after the hardware prices are back to normal post pandemic.
Make a bin, put all clips needing same transform in there. In color tab, open bin, select all clips with ctrl+a, right click, choose correct color space/gamma.
@3:29 you demonstrate how to view the Input Color Space that Resolve assigns to each clip. For HLG footage recorded in-camera this will typically be Rec.2100 HLG. In my experience, this setting will produce over-saturated colors that will tend to bloom. To fix this, I select P3-DCI in the drop-down menu shown in the video, and in the Color Management section of the Project Settings, I set Limit Output Gamut to P3-DCI as well (when rendering to Rec.2100 HLG (Scene) or any HDR gamut). This ensures all color values will be remain within the P3-DCI subset of the Rec.2020 gamut. The reason this is necessary is because contemporary 4K HDTV's cannot accurately reproduce the Rec.2020 gamut specified by the HLG standard. Most displays can handle >90% of the P3-DCI subset, but manage less than 80% of the Rec.2020 gamut. Camera sensors, OTOH, have no inherent gamut, they simply map their RGB levels into the Rec.709 or Rec.2020 color gamut specified by the camera's video recording mode. When shooting in HLG, highly saturated colors will be mapped into high Rec.2020 values. When these Rec.2020 hues exceed the P3-DCI subset of Rec.2020, your HDTV will be unable to reproduce them and those colors will max out at P3-DCI levels. While you can't change how your camera maps colors to Rec.2020 in HLG mode, you can control how Davinci Resolve interprets those color values. Setting Input Color Space to P3-DCI tells Resolve to scale extreme gamut values to fit within the P3-DCI color space, a range that HDTV monitors can accurately reproduce. Setting Limit Output Gamut to P3-DCI likewise tells Resolve to restrict all colors to that gamut. You can then use Davinci Wide Gamut or Rec.2100 HLG (Scene) workspace gamuts without exceeding the gamut HDTV sets can reproduce.
For input color space, you should use whatever color space and gamma was recorded so that it is interpreted correctly. You can check this through color page, right click the clip thumbnail in media or timeline, color space. You can change the output color space to whatever you like using custom modes and map them appropriately to limit output to rec2020, p3 limited (Aces). I wouldn't advise using incorrect input color spaces.
@@TonyDae - P3-DCI is not "incorrect", it is a more realistic HDR gamut than Rec.2020. The problem with Rec.2020 is that there are no practical displays that can cover such a broad color gamut. When cameras map their sensors to Rec.2020, they are demanding a oolor gamut that cannot correctly be reproduced in the real world. Interpreting Rec.2020 recordings as P3-DCI fixes the problem at the source, before it can produce oversaturated colors in your editing project.
The input is either correct or incorrect and should be what was captured. You are talking about output color space that needs to be mapped properly to the display. The output can be set to p3 color and proper HDR gamma for display.
@@TonyDae - Yes, limiting the graded HDR output to P3-DCI is also important, but that won't prevent oversaturated colors from Rec.2020 input sources, they will just stay oversaturated at P3-DCI levels. The key point to consider is that sensors have no inherent color gamut, their RGB levels are arbitrarily mapped to whatever color space the camera is using. It is actually MORE accurate to map video recordings to P3-DCI than Rec.2020 (because unlike Rec.2020, P3-DCI can be accurately displayed).
The correct setting in a Color Managed workflow should be Rec.2100 HLG (Scene), not Rec.2100 HLG. Unfortunately Resolve 17 has also introduced bugs with the HLG input preset where HLG footage is noticeably darker - this issue isn't there in Resolve 16.
In RCM I've found that the automatic setting works fine, in Color Space Transform needs scene. It could also be some in camera profiles are better with scene others with display, but I know that this particular method shown here works properly. ACES requires a work around but hlg in my testing so far doesn't have any inherent issues with DR17. Do you have a video showing these problems?
@@TonyDae The default detection in Resolve is wrong. It's meant for Display referred HLG content, not Scene referred content. HLG as encoded from a Camera is ALWAYS Scene referred - there is no OOTF in the equation. Speaking here as an Engineer. See my write-up for a bit more info: xtremestuff.net/recording-editing-with-hybrid-log-gamma-part-1/
Thank you for the write up, I had done a comparison prior to recording the video and I did not see a difference between, when using rcm between scene referred and display, which is why I didn't talk about the difference. I can go back and check, but have you looked to see if there is any difference between using the display or scene in this particular RCM workflow? I will check tomorrow as I could of course be mistaken, however I will submit that if there is no visible difference, then in this workflow it would not matter choosing scene or display preferred at all.
Just checked again right now. In resolve 17 when using rcm in all my test shots there is no difference at all between choosing scene and display. This is why I didn't talk about it for this workflow.
You won't see a difference because RCM in Resolve 17 uses Tone and Gamut mapping on Input and Output sources by default. If you Go into Custom preset settings and select None for Input DRT, you'll see the difference. Unfortunately there are quite a few issues with having DRT enabled by default, accuracy being the main one.
Had to edit my previous response because I forgot that I added a look after the transform in this video... Essentially its a teal and orange look with color adjustments that are similar to a common Kodak film emulation. Push yellow toward orange, green toward yellow and desaturate, desaturate magenta, push blue toward cyan, add teal to shadows then orange to mid tones, then add luminance saturation curve to desaturate shadows and highlights and saturation/luminance curve where you push saturated colors darker. I put this part in fast forward so that you could slow it down or pause it if you wanted, but keep the video as short as possible. Apologies for misunderstanding the comment on my first attempt to respond.
Or you can use rec2020 and get good color too for a rec709 deliverable. This video isn't about grading 709 acquisition or anybody's personal feelings about whether or not they like rec2020 acquisition in 8 bit.
@@TonyDae I know what you mean. But try to use HLG with 709, the color is more accurate than 2020 transfer to 709. Input color space choose: REC709 HLG ARIB STD-B67. In this way, you can save your time grading transfered 709.
@@TonyDae I have no personal feeling about 2020 or 709. The truth is in SONY’s 8bit camera, 2020 is not accurate. If you tranfer that 2020 to 709, you will find huge red color over saturated issue and have to waste a lot of time to grade the transfered 709.
Even if I want output 2020 HDR video to RU-vid, I will still choose HLG 709 and transfer to 2020, the color is more accurate than use 2020 in camera directly.
I appreciate your knowledge, however, the video is not about whether or not to use rec2020 with HLG, but how to grade it easily. Many people use rec2020/HLG instead of 709/HLG and I am not going to tell people what to choose. I'll let other people on youtube do that job. I have tried both 709 and rec2020 takes seconds to correct after a color transform and using color warp. This is not a lot of wasted time, it takes seconds. TO add, not everybody using this video as a guide is using a Sony product. Regardless, this video isn't about the merits of different color spaces or choosing one over the other for recording HLG. This video is meant to help people grade HLG rec2020 specifically, that's it.
