LETS FINALLY TALK ABOUT RIVALS 2 

Its not my best when it comes to editing. But here it is everyone. Most of the things i want to talk about for Rivals 2. I was gonna end it better but my voice files got corrupted, plus the topics need their own video anyway. So... My apologies. But i hope you like it anyway.

You could probably make a whole standalone video as to why Rivals and Blazblue's character gimmicks are so cool compared to other fighting games. I wish more fighting games or even video games in general had so much synergy with the things your character can do.

Speaking as a someone who’s attempting to make one of these things, the benefit of having a frame 1 indefinite defensive option is something few people understand properly. Thanks for having a nuanced take on it.

As someone who might enjoy the first game more, I can admit that boiling Rivals down to "no shields, no ledges, no grabs" would be a severe disservice to both games. The design ethos and mechanics are incredible, and a lot of that is unsung in regards to online discussions about both games. I trust the Rivals team to make something amazing, regardless if it appeals to my arbitrary preferences.

Other than the way characters are designed, I'd say that the biggest aspect of what makes Rivals what it is is accessibility. Dan made a game where almost anyone can pick up a controller a do cool combos and tech like a Melee pro. Shields and ledges, when implemented well, enhance that. It makes the game more approachable to new players and that's a good thing. Also: if you want to know how ledges and shields will feel in Rivals, your best bet is to look at Project+. Trevor got his start as a PM player and I can see the influence watchinf Rivals 2 gameplay

Great video and you’re so right about having content that appeals to new or casual players because that’s what creates future competitive players

I'm actually pretty open to these new mechanics as a non-smash player. My first plat fighter was brawlhalla, and then traditioned to rivals and multiversus when it was still alive.

yknow I agree entirely with you on the core of rivals, an anecdote though: I picked rivals back up recently, while I was sick and decided I was gonna learn to play Absa finally, the character I really wanted to learn her and was bored of rivals when playing basically only ori, also I wanted to learn rivals more in depth, but now I keep coming back to rivals for absa and now forsburn, what happened was I became way more invested in the characters adn was having a blast, now I’m rapidly improving over time

I think what is worriesome about ledges is the ledgehog mechanic. What Rivals 1 did great was having so many recovery options without ledges. Now that special fall cannot be walljump cancelled it feels like a step back. What Ultimate did well was implement ledge-trumping. Because we can’t ledge trump, it feels like we should still be able to wall-jump out of special fall to balance it out. Ledge hogging was probably one of the most frustrating mechanics in melee because of how much cheese it implements. Characters like Jiggly puff were so hard to deal with because she could ledge hog and ledge refresh so much. I hope they have a good workaround for that option since edge guarding is such a powerful position to be in when ledge hogging is an option.

I see what your saying about the story mode and I agree. Yet the aether studios team has seemingly figured it out. In the Reddit ama, Dan said that the chapters of story mode will come out separately. And each of them will have their own subtext, the 1st is currently Rivals 2: Champions of Aether. I thought that was pretty neat. That means the next one might be like Rivals 2: Fires last hope or something. The closest comparison I can think of are Marvel movies. Characters will have their own stories in the same universe but some wont be as tied into the main story as others. Like I imagine Etalus might team up with another character but then continue to do his own thing. I think this is actually genius, and im looking forward to a variety of stories.

You're correct, Rivals is and always has been about the characters and their internal synergy or style. Rivals knows it doesn't have Mario or Link, but unlike smash, it doesn't NEED Mario and Link, to have an identity bc the identity is in the kits; something smash ult's bloated roster has a huge issue with, and has only ever been solved in dlc by overpowered comeback gimmicks... and steve... but we don't talk about Steve No, Rivals is it about kit synergy and gameplay synergy Problem is, a lot of people, myself included, are still uncertain how these mechanics will change the other most important part of rival's flow; the choices around which TRULY are the reason Rival's is so heralded: Defensive options and the their internal philosophy going forward on the neutral aspects of the platform fighter genre. Player agency is the blanket for all this. Everything from the character, how they move, what they do and how they do it, and the freedom to control it in 2D space fluidly defines Rival's identity. And it is STRONG. All players want is for that freedom to be mostly preserved, and in the spirit of 1, despite these new mechanics. Shields have been historically powerful in smash, leading to a lot of boring interactions. Dan and the team MUST preserve the in match state changes and defensive options in such a way that it preserves that spirit of strong in combo di and comeback potential rivals excels at. It's a certain keen-ness toward balancing and the competitive too, but I would never want the game totally catered toward comp- it's about that core identity remaining intrinsic to the series. Is there enough proof yet? Idk... I think shields being more of a dis-advantageous state is a good core philiosophy they need to keep. And parries beating attacks AND grabs would solidify it for me; being a harder option but a powerful catch-all, would cement their commitment to Rival's balance between disadvantage and advantage. Getting hit in rivals can be so devastating, but thanks to the tech and the way its combo di works, it's hardly unfair to the defender. Shields and ledges shouldn't take away more from the attacker then it does to the defender in the same way combo DI doesnt treat the defender poorly despite being tossed like a salad. Balance will be key. The key is in their philosophy on these states. We shall see. Obv. Much good will already exists bc of Rivals 1, but 2 presents a fresh opportunity and a fresh chance to prove if 1 was lightning in a bottle or the sign of a brilliant and fresh trend, by a team of people who REALLY understand what makes this genre fun besides (and hopefully in tandem) with it's "party" aspects in comparison to other traditional 2d fighters. Platforms fighters are like the movement shooter of the fighting game genre, and that potential has yet to be truly unleashed outside of a few games- also needing that extra detail of polish, animatiom, art etc. To really pull people in. Modern Smash itself is in an abyssmal state in this regard, so Rivals 2 REALLLLY has a chance to shine brighter than a dying neutron star with it's now tested cast, art-animation (so important please dont fuck it up, new characters like maypul look really smash quality), music, and core mechanics. We should all be praying they get it right, but I know for a fact this is where we stand, and why people are nervous about shields and ledges. It could have bad repurceussions if not handled with respect to rivals. And even dissonance with pre-existing fans could be enough to turn people off if it doesn't feel in-line with rivals- something Aether Studios can't afford since THOSE fans are gonna (freely, not fakely) shill and blow this fucker wide open if they get it right. It's risky, but you don't get anywhere fun without taking a few risks. Time will tell, as always. But that's the real state of it imo. Lmk your thoughts.

Really good video, hopefully with NASB 2 and Rivals 2 platform fighters will finally be back

Here's a simple idea I hope they do: if you parry an attack, your shield goes back to full health.

where did they confirm story mode for Rivals 2? let alone use the phrase "subspace-esque?" was this in an interview? I can't seem to find it.

11:06 That's kinda how I feel about Orcane in Fraymakers. lol

What is the game at 18:46? I thought I'd seen all platform fighters before.

I've never played the original rivals, but as someone who loves melee, I personally love watching people like hbox and armada switch up the meta with their skills in zoning and headgames. It adds a whole new layer to the game. In my mind the more playstyles a competitive game allows for, the deeper the meta will become, and the longer the lifespan will be

Target smash, pleeeeeeease. Especially if each chapter were to get there own stage that’s personalized to the corresponding moveset, like in melee.

Never heard someone against sheilds or ledges. Sheilds make the grab-attack-sheild RPS mechanic, and ledges allow more recovery mix ups, especially with the ledge pop-off mechanic

Also heres the Q AND A about Rivals 2 they did. www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/16awa5f/roa2_qna_with_devs_from_pax_west_2023/?context=3

fantastic job 🎉

Rottweiler made some very good points about Rivals 1 and my limited experience agrees. Shields and ledges won't kill the game or its pacing. 1) Parrying wasn't as cool as it seems, and at mid level some people would just fish for parries to get a kill/combo and unlike shields, parrying doesn't reward good spacing for the attacking player 2) edgeguarding could be very tedious, needing to outright kill somebody and if they got back once, it restarts all over. But ledges will help alleviate that as you can put a nail in the coffin for someone's stock.

I wonder how the steam workshop scene would go?

I don't even play platform fighters, but I'll click like on any video that praises Blazblue.

Love this so much

I'm excited about the workshop

I just hope the cutscenes aren't as embarrassing as Rivals 1xs story mode cutscenes... that Forsburn image dude...

My problem with ledges (nothing wrong with shields imo) is mostly that I liked Rivals edgeguarding because of how it rewarded movement organically.

This is a really weird opinion but the camera in rivals 2 is so weird. it zooms in so far that it always looks like it is catching up and makes the game hard to read (at least from a viewer’s perspective i haven’t played it yet).

Good video 👍 And while I do see that this game is mostly focused on the meat of Rivals 2 opposed to the background logistics of the business model, I do genuinely hope we see more info soon about how the game is marketed and acquired by players FTP is such an exploited system in gaming nowadays, and I refuse to support a game that is just constantly advertising microtransactions or pushing FOMO onto the player since that would be the main source of revenue. Unless Dan and co. are loaded like that, they need to have a good balance of the FTP model, or just take my money in one purchase with new content being a new, small purchase way down the road (just don't do what Smash 4 did. Wtf did I have to buy Lucas and Mewtwo when they were in previous games?)

Rivals is great 2d sprite animation

I think in terms of single player content, a boss rush mode (presuming they have proper bosses in the campaign that aren't just beefed up CPU players, which I think is likely) would be the holy grail. If you look at Ultimate, for example, you really have no way to just quickly hop on and play its boss fights with your character of choice (not that they designed them super well regardless, but still). And as for chaotic side-modes, a juggernaut type mode with one player playing as a boss and the rest playing normal characters would add so much value just by repurposing bosses already added to the game. I think that's the greatest missed opportunity Smash Ultimate had, especially since you play as Master Hand in the story mode anyway and Giga Bowser functions as a playable character via a glitch. If they do bosses in the story mode and they make them actually good, I hope they'll take full advantage of having good boss enemies in the game to add new content for casual play.

Nice sylv

27:24 the only single player content in tf2 are the half-assed tutorials (which aren't even finished) and community made rocket jump maps (barebones obstacle courses played by tryhards).

13:56 Did it ever say it should do that? Pretty sure it didn't, so you cant say it doesnt work just because it doesnt work they way you want

I'm just scared for the workshop, it's what makes RoA unique and it will be considerably harder to make character or maps for 3D+ no pixel art

I liked rivals characters but as a BlazBlue player I refuse to play fighting games without an option to block. It feels like playing poker without the option to fold. I think having a mechanic to accept you are in a disadvantageous situation is good. On the other hand a lot of platform fighters make blocking waaaay too strong. Blocking should not lead to an advantage most of the time.

I think that Hollow Knight will be a bridge too far for most “casual” players. HK is an awesome game, but it is underrated in it’s difficulty. Imagine getting absolutely waxed over and over again online, so you decide to go into the story mode, and it’s something as difficult as HK? I feel like that is only going to alienate new players even more. That and the fact that HK is finely tuned around 1 simple character with very simple mechanics. Imagine trying to balance a similar experience around 10+ characters each with different mechanics and properties. I don’t know what the answer is, but I really feel like this is simply an answer of “you aren’t going to be able to please everyone”. Look at conventional 2d fighting games. If you are shit at the game, no amount of single player content is going to keep you interested. I think that the only model that works is to get a new player base hyped, and hopefully at least a good number of them grind through tutorials and online matches to get competent enough at the game to keep going with it.

Good video, needs a few weezer references Thoe

There's TF2 singleplayer? 27:25

If Shovel Knight is included i dont have a problem with Rivals 2

shield is just parry with less reward but easier to use

Thank you for mentioning the importance of appealing to casuals! Trying to copy Smash and only appealing to competitive just kills the game because we can just stick with Smash. You need good characters or mechanics to convince the competitive people to switch. BUT if you build your own fan base, they'll become the competitive ones for youe game

Being sincere, I was not going to buy Rival 2, because its 3d, and its hard to mod 3d, and rivals 1 for me was the shit-ton of mods. But you sold it to me, Im gonna buy it and try with some friends.

Gibbous

Im glad platform fighters are finally not looking jank

Melee has cool gimmicks on everyone

the song from 7:10 to 23:10 is so bad that im astonished that you thought it was a good idea to have it loop for that long

to be honest i dont think free to play is good for the game more like it hurts the game more and at the end of the day if a game is finished then its good rather releasing it free to play that is broken and unfinished

There is no controversy with shields and ledges.

why the hate for pomme, aside from her being way too hype theres nothing wrong

The thing I like the least about rivals 2 is the art style. Main reason I got it to rivals was I loved the way the art style looked. Rivals 2 I think just looks plain bad

10:55 Minecraft steve places blocks in the level and minmin has her arms mechanic. I feel like these are at least as unique as peach float. Pyra and mythra and pokemon trainer both swap through all their forms and don't have one that is better in all scenarios too. If you were only talking about melee you'd be correct that peach float is the only really unique gimmick.

I love all fighting games, But platformers have always been the best. Dont stop doing content about platform fighters

Can't listen/Watch the video halfway trough song got to annoying/Repetetive

Pixel art looks better.