Matt reviews a 2008 Lexus ISF on Angeles Forest Highway. These were $65,000 cars when new, but now that they have aged, can they be the best value in used performance cars?
As an ISF owner, I've yet to learn about a legitimate tune on these ECUs, from my understanding that's why turbo kits are always one-off custom jobs that don't really make huge gobs of power (relatively, and cost per whp gained). There seems to be significantly more potential taking the ISx50 and slapping a turbo on those motors. The extent of the aftermarket support for the ISF is intake, header, exhaust, and a few carbon body panels. If you want a car to modify, get a 250 or 350. The interior is a bit cramped for anyone above 5'8. Matt's complaint about the seats are justified, but they fit me just right. This car is a great daily driver if you want something sporty, but not full blown M3. There's plenty of torque for daily driving. 8 forward speeds are great for keeping the motor at lower RPMs to reduce driving noise. You will feel the weight of the car when turning, even at low speeds. I average 23-26MPG, my daily commute is 90% highway. Average tank is 350 miles, have tipped 400 miles on a single tank. Maintenance: 9.5 quarts of oil per change @ 5,000miles. OEM brake rotors approx. $200 a piece on eBay, OEM pads $200~ front, $250~ rear.OEM cabin filter, $40. Other than that, the car will runs fantastic as long as you keep up maintenance. Changes/Updates: 2008-09 - water pump leaking issues, addressed and fixed in 2010+. Non-LED headlights has AFS headlights. AFS - at about 30mph, when you turn the steering wheel the headlights will also slightly turn in that direction. 2010+ adjusted camber settings. 2010+ bluetooth steaming capable. 2011+ LSD.
The IS is definitely one of the most underrated cars. The 350's were smoking Mustangs until Ford dropped the new 5.0. Sure the M3 is slightly better around a track but who cares, 99.99% of the time your on a normal road with stoplights and bumper to bumper traffic. The funnest thing is when BMW fanboys talk about how great the cars handle and how boring Lexus is, yet 95% of them have never raced and they sit in the same traffic as everyone else. If I lived on a race track I would pick the M3, however the IS is a far better REAL world car.
been saying this forever! unless you're the god damn stig who cares about a tenth of a second, a tenth of a lateral g, etc.. if you are going to daily it cost and reliability are at LEAST equally as important as performance. plus the money saved equals more mods to close the performance gap ;)
+Nutz4Gunz45 finally, someone said it! lol, absolutely! People always buying this or that saying how much of a sick track it is. No, it's just a cute brochure you can brag about because you'll hit redline once and feel bad you're beating on it lol.
+MikeHuntIsItchy I believe it was Motor Trend who compared the 2012 BOSS 302 and the E92 M3, with a professional driver, the M3 was a few tenths a lap quicker, but with a normal driver the Mustang was a little over a second faster. M3's are very quick, but unless you are a someone who can hop in and push any car to 9/10ths or 10/10ths, you won't be faster in it than a competitive, easier to drive vehicle like the Mustang or IS-F.
+Nutz4Gunz45 That poor 3 valve Mustang, that was a pretty tired engine, easily out powered by the Japanese and European V6's, and the GTO LS2 just embarrassed the poor thing. The Coyote was a necessity.
+Nutz4Gunz45 You dont even have to go that far, even Audis that car journalists bash because they are front heavy, you never gonna experience that in the real world anyway, you need to push the car so hard and if you do it on public roads it makes you a moron :)
Yeah okay...as no doubt reflected in residential values. I've owned both and although the paint finish on the ISF is light years ahead of the e9x M3...it's no M car.
CENTENON you entitled to ya own opinion dude even if your Wrong lol but anyway. The RCF is a badass car for a first generation car with no past model to build off of the RCF is still a awesome car sound mean, neck turning looks and V8. Lots of good things going for it.
CENTENON the joke RCF matches M3 lap times. Sounds 100 times better than the m3, imo looks better than the m3. You can say what you want but a RCF is no joke.
The change in sound around 4000 RPM is actually predominantly due to the variable air intake, which actuates at around 3600 RPM, rather than the engine coming "on-cam", just in case anybody was wondering. Pretty cool tech.
Does anyone know what he's gonna do once it hits 1 million? He should do a tune up and try to supercharge it or something, and see what happens lol. I'd be curious to see if it would last a while, or blow up on the dyno lol
manufacturers use old engine blocks that are re-bored in racing applications usually because they are proven blocks... The million mile lexus with a proper tune could probably take forced induction and remain reliable.
Bought a 2013 ISF this year myself. Mine has 84k miles on it though. Has refinements of the 2011+ years, and still more reliable than my F10 535i. How many miles are on yours now?
I just purchased one w the same 47k miles. Maintenance history is immaculate and up to date. I love this car, best car I’ve owned. Reason the seats are uncomfortable for Matt because he’s an obese person.
***** Yes, I happen to have the latest issue sitting in front of me and it includes the full list of Lightning lap times. The 2008 IS-F lapped at 3:14.0 and the 2011 IS-F did 3:05.4. That is a huge improvement for a car that didn't have any power added. It's worth noting that the 2008 BMW M3 scored a 3:05.6. and the 2009 M3 tied with the Lexus (I think the 2009 BMW used a DCT). They were all edged out by a 2015 Mustang GT at 3:05.2.
***** I have the October 2015 issue which has the new Lightning lap, it's not online yet. New cars: VW GTI - 3:14.6 VW Golf R - 3:12.3 Audi S3 - 3:11.3 Alfa Romeo 4c - 3:08.8 Mustang GT - 3:05.2 Cadillac ATS-V sedan - 2:59.8 Lexus RC-F - 3:05.8 Mercedes AMG C63S - 2:59.2 Cadillac ATS-V coupe - 2:59.2 Cadillac CTS-V - 2:56.8 Mercedes AMG GT - 2:51.0 Porsche 911 GT3 - 2:50.4 Lamborghini Huracan - 2:47.5 McLaren 650S Spyder - 2:45.8 Corvette Z06 - 2:44.6 That Vette is punching way above its class.
I think he said it absolutely right. Lexus gives you the extra confidence in reliability instead of top notch performance. Especially as a used car that's your benefit over hard beaten M3s or something. If you get one of these IF-S it will pay back with reliability and some kind of specialty because there aren't as many of them.
+SW20AE86 2011 & up is where its at though, faster around the circuit & newer features lol. That may be why the 08's & 09's for ex. are cheap. But then again they really are a steal!
Best Car I’ve ever owned. Regret selling it to be honest. Had 112,000KM on it, never gave me any issues, was tight, no rattles, shimmy’s or shakes. Just a great car all around. Only thing I wish it had was a little more bottom end Torque. With the 8 Speed on the Highway The gas mileage was great.
@@yORBALINDa92886 believe it or not, its actually just a muffler delete and a down turn directly outside the resonator, under the rear diff/axels. Sounds pretty decent considering it cost me like $20 to set up. Only con would be there is some drone in the backseat and it looks kinda funny without tips in the rear bumper..
@@yORBALINDa92886 I do actually.. Im in the temecula area and have a few guys that go out with them every once in a while.. They are great cars and you'll love it more the longer you have it
I remember watching this video years ago knowing someday I'd own an ISF. I've had my F for about 4 months now and this review is just as entertaining and enjoyable now as it was then. I looked at the M3 and other German competition while shopping around and there was just no way I was willing to totally sacrifice reliability for a fractional performance increase.
@@FSXflyermaster I've got the tune and headers going on next week. Supercharger is a possibility in the future but prices will have to come down first.
I did the same thing.. Looked at a few M3's, a C63 and some american stuff. Found this to be the best bang for ya buck AND the most reliable by a landslide.
Two years and 40k miles later I still love my ISF. Its FBO/Tune, riding on Ohlins dampers and a real pleasure to cruise around town or rip through the canyons. I also fixed the shift lever orientation.
It's a nice car. I would easily rather an IS-F over an M3. The M3 is a good car, but the IS-F is just a better alternative. It sounds better, it looks better, and it's just different, people don't hate you in an IS-F. By the way, the throttle response you were mentioning, between this and your Corvette, is the difference between mechanical cable throttle and electric throttle. Mechanical throttles are the only way to go. The direct link between your foot, and the plate in the throttle body can and never will be replaced by something as dead as electric. Same goes for steering. A proper hydraulic rack will always be better than electric steering. The new Bentley Continental GT3, is one of the few new cars to revert back to hydraulic over electric, and everyone fell in love and remembers why it was so good. Which is why I don't understand the desire for manufacturers to rush and slap 'electric everything' in new cars, besides being cheaper for them, and less serviceable if something goes wrong, so you have to go to them to get it fixed.
Matt, I agree with you 100% on the sequential shifters. Very few car manufacturers do it properly. Actually the only company I can think of that does do it right is BMW.
You nailed it. We do it so the night crawlers will up vote us on sites like reddit so by the time working stiffs are awake it's already at the top of the page.
I picked up my 2008 in Ultrasonic Blue Mica a little over 6 months ago. Makes the perfect daily and let’s you have fun in the back roads when you want. A very special car indeed, if you have the means: GET ONE!!
This is the best POV review on the ISF I've seen yet. I wanted to get the IS350 due to maintenance costs, insurance, fuel etc but hearing that V8 roar is producing some sort of instinctual caveman reaction and now me want loud broom broom car.
Tried out the I8. That was horrible. Also a friend of a friend had a e33. That was pretty bad too. I don't like the look of them and mostly people who drive them are assholes. (not all ofcourse)
RtdXyron not a fan of electric/hybrids but I haven't driven one. Go drive an e92 and you'll be singing a different song. Unless you don't like power and handling. The drivers should have nothing to do with how the car drives either.
Great review man. Especially love the maintenance stand point. I drive an e92 m3 and I do love it from a driving/performance standpoint but it's a maintenance headache. That's why I was thinking of switching to an ISF. Driven them before and they are fun cars. Good review man
+Devil0027 I've had my IS-F for 6 months now, its a 2012; nothing needed to be done except regular oil change; of course the brakes and tires needed to be changed but that's because I track it, but ya man, it is also a good time to become an IS-F owner because tunes are now finally coming out and soon enough turbo and supercharger kits; you can get some serious power in a great package, IS-F is truly truly a great car and I couldn't recommend it more
@Eedo Amitay just out of curiosity, how much did u pay for your 12' isF? I just got one in November 2022. A 2012 silver with red interior and only 34k on it for $40,000
I hope you are able to get the Lexus too the Million Mile marker, and make a one take episode as well.. Maybe an episode where you drive it back east after it hits the 1,000,0000 mark? Bring along some of the other journalists who have helped put some miles on it recently. I think it'd be awesome, hopefully somebody over at Lexus is watching and give it a restoration so we can see it go another million????
This model was a bit slower then the same years of the M3, however, in 2011, Lexus re did the suspension and was able to put more power to the wheels and the 2011 IS F was equal to the M3 in performance.
I own a ultra sonic blue ISF, have owned for 6 months,i brought the car based on this review. i can't fault the car, foot park brake is probably the biggest issue, got it back from lexus after a cooling fan recall with no other issues to report, have done 10000k's on it. Its the best of performance and reliability, once you get on the highway and use radar cruise it becomes economical too.
Lots of transmissions lock the converter early. The 5G-Tronic made by Mercedes did it since the late 90s (even in first gear). Unless you meant it was the first 8-speed to do it, of course.
RE: The backwards shifter. I swapped the wires on mines to make it correct. When I traded the car in it was the only thing I didn't revert to stock. I wonder if the new owner appreciate it.
One of the few things I miss from Cali... The roads... Driving in Colorado is dangerous the roads are so fucked up. I've never seen more potholes in my life until I moved here.
Ive had my 08 ISF for 5 years now bought it used in 2010 which I got at a steal $42k with 19k miles at the time, now its at 119000. Its a very good car still solid performer and have received many compliments over the years. Its a great unique car to own because you hardly ever see another on the road. I can hit 150mph quickly before running out of room. Issues Ive had so far I had to change the front headlight on each side, my front fog lights finally have gotten quite faded so I just recently replaced them for brand new ones - a dramatic difference. Also the touch screen on my Navi has stopped working, Ive ben told the plasma leaked out. I still have to address that. Radio and climate control work but you have to work with the buttons instead not the touch screen. Want a fast car with style if it was my choice dont buy something new get a used ISF for $30k. Also I take the older style ISF over the new GSF thats coming out although its got 467hp. The 2016 grill is just to weird and the car has an overly angular look to it.
Lexus engineers that throttle feel into their cars. So you don't get that lurch off the line when you're trying to drive smooth very smooth for stop and go.
+LittleCan If its like my !S300, there is a spring at the gas pedal that softens the hit when you mash the gas. It's annoying and, like most owners, I removed mine when I first got the car. Now the car doesn't wait 2 days to accelerate after I push the pedal. I have since completely solved the issue by swapping in a VVTi 1uz-fe.
There is no tune needed but that there is no tune possible on the Toyota ECM. The only possibility is a piggy-back ECU The Toyota ECM has a wide mapping range and an auto learning mode so it adapts itself to the changes induced by a peripheral change. Another thing so consider when looking at this car, really cool in my opinion.
They updated the ISF in 2010 and they improved it so if you gonna buy one don't go for the pre 2010 ones. If i remember correct they did some modding in the front so it don't understeer as much + modded the diff or something, i think it was like 10-15seconds faster around the Nurnburgring with the same power.
the pinnalce of the isf was 2013, a number of revisions over the years to the steering ecu, suspension, and spring rates, dampening, and dash layout, and .5 inch wider wheels as well. the owner says tuned? i call bs, toyota and lexus ecu's cannot be cracked.
I bought this car in 08; very early ones i had mine reserved right after they showed it. Owned it for 4 years DD. 0 issues traded in a suv since by then i had 2 kids and the cars seats were an hassle. After the kids got bigger i searched again and these are hard to find clean ones. Got a Next best thing new GSF. Yes i could have bought a m6 or amg but i know these drivetrains are bulletproof plus such a rare car
Nice quick review. I kinda ignored this car when it came out because I liked the E90 M3 better, but this thing has certainly grown on me. And thank you for mentioning the direction of the "manual shift" on those things... seeing a car with + up and - down bothers me way more than it should.
Thank You Matt for the wonderful review. If I were to choose from that generation of performance coupe's/sedans it would be: Pure engine wise: C63 amg p31 (hands down the best performer in terms of power) Agility, feel and overall performer (m3 e92) The best looking of them all ( RS5 ) The most reliable, cheap to run and still loads of fun ( ISF ) But my personal choice would be an E93 M3 with DCT (yup a performance convertible) If I wanted a sedan to keep it quite long it would be the ISF or the C63 (didnt hear much horror stories about them here in EU) Anyway big thanks for this review. Its a great car for people who want an overall performance daily driver.
tubejorrit well yeah thats obvious man, just saying that I like a convertible so the m3 would be my choice, especially that its a hard top. If Merc would make a C63 convertible Id jump on one RIGHT NOW. But sadly they didnt and the new turbo engine is not my piece of pie..
I have the E93 M3 in 6MT. Amazing driving pleasure with the top down in open air hearing the V8 scream past 8,000rpm. Does come at a cost though. Gas mileage and maintenance costs should be a major consideration if you're in the market for one. As a quick example, an engine oil change costs $300 since it takes 9L of 10W-60. Even if you DIY, oil alone costs $160 and you also need to buy an oil change kit each time. Brake job is $4,000. New DCT transmission is $15,000. New engine is $25,000. If that's manageable and you find a well maintained one, it's all damn worth it! I fall in love with mine over and over again each time I take it out for a drive.
In reference to the way manual shifters should be moved, for upshift and downshift... I drove a Shifter go kart 125cc ( that is a CRAZY machine) and you pull to upshift and push to downshift... and that car generates heavy g forces!!! I believe most race cars do it that way too.
Hi matt. the sound change doesn't come from the cams coming on, there is a flap on the induction side of the engine which opens at around 4000 rpm and gives you this distinct V8 growl. same with the new RC F :) cheers Andy
After switching from an e46 bmw to an is250 of the same generation. I agree on the seats. Regular e46 seats are way more comfy and supportive than regular is seats. I love that car and how reliable and smooth it is. But it just hurts after 2-3 hrs of driving. I remember doing an 8 hour drive last year in the 46 and only stopping 2-3 times. In the lex i'd be looking for a hotel after 3 hrs...
As a second hand purchase, I would definitely buy a Lexus over BMW, Mercedes, Audi or any of its competitors. I would have the peace of mind that I could keep it for pretty much as long as I want and it's not going to fuck me over with maintenance and repair bills.
Hey Matt, if you're ever in the Oxnard, Ventura Area, I'll let you take my 2012 IS-F for a sprint up Mullholland for a comparison to the early models. It's all factory stock, except for some Michelin Pilot Super Sports and Borla Exhaust. In 2011 Lexus did a bunch of crucial changes to the car that made it significantly more responsive and better handling than the first batch of 08-10s. The 2011+ models are almost 9 seconds faster per lap around VIR than the 08-10 models. Let me know if you're up for it.
Just a heads up.... There is no " tune" for any US Spec ISF. With the exhaust the car is probably putting down about 440 HP at the crank . 08-09s are the slower ISFs on a track or in the canyons . 2010 got the LSD and 2011 and 2012 had suspension changes and steering ECU adjustments as well.
It is not there is no tune needed but that there is no tune possible on the Toyota ECM. The only possibility is a piggy-back ECU The Toyota ECM has a wide mapping range and an auto learning mode soo it adapts itself to the changes induced by a peripheral change
Odd not to have 2 people there. Didn't realize I liked it better with the back and forth with the owner in the car. Still ok w/o, just got use to owners.
hey matt thanks for taking the time to review some awesome cars for us over the years, this is as close as this car nut will ever get to experience any of these beasts and i really appreciate it! one question, how do you feel about a second gen lexus sc as a sports car?
yeah it's no M3 but it still exceeds the capabilities of most drivers,ESPECIALLY the wannabes flying round here in Daytona,I'm a professional truck driver but even I know my skill set is limited....
416hp to be exact. And also should always stick with latter model year. (cause revised Suspension tuning as well as Mechanical LSD standard on 2010 and newer ISF) And as per your "ON cam" comment. It's actually a little flap on top of the intake box opens up making the engine note more noticable. And as for the Manual shift on the centre console (I agree but please tell that to porsche as well cause the PDK shift is weird like the Lexus as well) FYI...... good review thou.... Keep up the good work
If this is a problem for you in terms of head -room, I would like to see you drive my car, roof is so low and the seats are so high, the headrests only clear the roof by 1 inch on their lowest setting. I also have to recline the seat to fit in the car with a helmet. (It's a Proton satria neo)
RELIABLE!! Not the fastest car on the market at that price value even at 64K when I got it new in 2010 - still loving it. Fast enough for me and the v8 sound with the Torque=amazing. Much respect to the M3 as it is the bench mark and handles better than my F but I love the fact that I can have this car almost issue free for many years to come. (unlike all of the German built cars)--love them - but lets keep it a buck (100).
Your a statistics car guy lol… majority of people that just want a good looking reliable practical and fairly cheap car to own over all. And still has The performance that’s on the heels of a m3. It’s a much better car for a everyday driver that doesn’t need the road feel or handling of a m3 or the power of a amg. It’s a perfect blend between everything. It still gives u power, handling, classy nice interior, build quality. But the biggest reason is reliability and people that aren’t emotionally involved with cars care more about that than handling or power, even though your buying a isf, you still value your money and your time, and having a m3 or c63 sitting at a shop for weeks then get bent over with a 3k+ plus repair bill. Doesn’t seem that fun to me regardless of anything.
Had a 2006 E46 Competition Package for a few years and it was amazing but I wanted something different so I sold it and got a 09 ISF...such an awesome car to say the least; nothing negative from my view...I had it for a little over 2 years and simply wanted something different so I now have a 09 C63 AMG......different animal...
The semi-auto shifting isn't really backwards, that's how it's always been on most semi-auto cars ever since Porsche introduced it in the late 80's, when Honda became the second manufacturer to add it they did it the same and almost all manufacturers have followed suit.
Ubersonic Correct me if i'm wrong but weren't Ferrari the first ones to use paddle shifters in the 80s-90s? I thought I heard somewhere that some foreign royal ordered a custom ferrari that could do the shifting for him, and they had to come up with the technology right then and there to accomodate. They then implemented that stuff into their customer cars, and the modern paddle shift cars were born. Again, correct me if i'm wrong :P
These things are so rare. The closest one to me is about 300 miles way in Tampa. I’m about to give the IS250 to bae and go and get myself this car; the car I’ve always wanted.
hi matt, is there by any chance u can do a tutorial on rev matching and heel toe. U are a very good manual driver, alot of us would appreciate that wisdom u have with the manuals... thanks
Wait I'm Confused, did he call the IS-F a "German" Sports Sedan at the end? At 10:50? or is he saying its an alternative? I had to play it about 10 times to verify the context. Everyone keeps comparing the JAPANESE high end sports cars to German sports cars and I don't see it. When I see Japanese cars, I see then saying "Lets make an all around practical car that is best for its platform. Doesn't have to be fast but it must be durable and reliable to play the long game" That's how I view the IS-F. It doesn't have tons of bells and whistles compared to an E92 M3 but as a fellow owner, this car is CRAZY affordable to service and will reach high mileage no problem and still perform just as good as the day t=. With the German Cars, i feel like its "To be the best, you gotta BEAT the best" and they always end up over doing it with the bells and whistles that it eventually becomes a headache
Thank you for this Matt. I truly am a big fan of this car...I wish you would have driven a fully bolt on MY 2011 and up! It really matches up to an e92 in terms of speed and agility. Nonetheless, you took the time to share your thoughts on the initial production line of the IS F. Thank you!
My 15 year-old Escape 4-speed cd4e automatic operated the torque converter the same way, as do all of them i am aware of. There must be confusion in that statement of specific behavior of pedal pressure and speed settings.
I don't think it would be 450 HP even with a tune and headers as he said. It's 415 HP motor (stock) by itself and I believe by adding it to the trans on a car and with whp and torq bumps it down to around 350-390 HP. ( I am not no car guru or tech but I have read this somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong ) With mods and all I would say 390-400 HP at the Dyno...