Limited Resources 562 - Zendikar Rising Set Review: Rare and Mythic Rare 

That's the most heated argument I've witnessed on LR

Charix is an 0/17 because the strongest base creature in historic is the 16/16 greatwurm. So this cleanly walls that.

Review starts at 6:32

"Did you try playing it in a deck with a bunch of lands" - haha

Another advantage not mentioned about Felidar Retreat is that is completely splashable, 3W is crazy.

Best limited reviews around IMO, and honestly, it's not even because these are excellent and educated magic players. The actual discourse and chemistry between Marshall and Luis is definitely real, the discussions are logical and constructive, and the debates are healthy and in good faith. Great job as always guys!

One thing they missed about Ashaya is that with it in play all your creatures entering the battlefield trigger landfall

I'm with Marshall about the Felidar Retreat discussion

I enjoy these so much, thank you for the great content :)

Felidar Retreat is most certainly a bomb. It feels so hopeless being on the other end of it.

Been a podcast listener for a few years, first time watching the show on video and I must say it’s a great addition!

Thanks for the update and insite on this set.

Extremely good episode, really interesting discussions on the mechanics!

Gotta back LSV up on the Ethiopian food. Besides being tasty and inexpensive, it's a great place to eat for a vegan/vegetarian. Traditional Ethiopian food doesn't really use eggs or dairy so if there's no meat in a dish, it's vegan. That means every Ethiopian restaurant has 3-6 hearty vegan dishes made from spiced lentils, cabbage, potato, etc. served with injera.

Marshal and Lenard hitting the ball out the park with this one!

Thanks for the review

@52:53 lol, when LSV makes puns that take a few seconds for them to register in my own brain, those are the best puns, haha. Ben Stark would be so disgusted!

I think “choice land” is a good name for the new double sided lands

Confounding Conundrum's text really does read like a limerick or a sing-song riddle. A+ meta flavour haha!

Loving the back and forth on Felidar Retreat. I think Marshall's making some pretty good points; you don't want to be top decking it when you're behind. Card is still pretty good though

LSV is right about retreat. Every time somebodyplays this card in my games, that player always wins. Even if they were behind when playing. It takes very little for it to get out of control.

You forgot to mention that ashaya makes your creatures trigger landfall

Dang, up real early this week! Thanks for all the hard work!

I'm loving this set

Ben Stark is in complete agreement with LSV on Legion Angel.

I did find a good home for Nahiri's Lithomancy when I picked one up 5th or 6th pick in pack 3 after 1st picking an ancient greenwarden as it was a good source of card draw in that situation.

Great discussions.

Just wanted to point out that in casual American English, "Taborax, Hope's Demise" is a homophone of "Taborax hopes to mise," which is exactly what he does.

There have been games I really felt like retreat could not dig me out of and it did. Definitely an A.

It's worth mentioning that greenwarden can replay DFC spell lands, possibly even letting you pick them up and recast them. magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/zendikar-rising-release-notes-2020-09-10

Just played my first few Zendikar Drafts on Arena and went 6-0 / 7-0 respectively thanks to your reviews. Just wanted to say thanks! :D

the fact that LSV isnt just known as sleepy in the magic world is baffling

I love maddening Cacophany with the return an instant or sorcery wizard and the return a card with kicker plant as well

LSV, you really need to have Marshall play some D&D with you. I'd be curious what type of character he'd roll up.

I think Marshall criminally undervalued Felidar retreat, and having after played it himself 3times. Sure it can be slow and not immediately game-breaking but it will win the game. Not every A-grade bomb has to be a Baneslayer angel or Bogardan Hellkite. Not to mention you play Hellkite and kill some of stuff and then opponent casts pacifism. Opponent can't stop Felidar retreat. Enchantment destruction is not main decked in limited. Slow but unstoppable.

Luis is making me sleep with all this yawning!

I got a Omnath Pack 1, Pick 1 and managed to build it around a green white landfall deck and it was glorious. Picked up 7 doubled faced lands, two of them blue and two of them red, so I was able to play only one mountain and one island with 2 reclaim the wastes. So even with 3 sources of red and blue, when I drew my extra sources, I could just play the spell. Also just playing a 21 land, 14 land deck is disgusting. Those flip cards are nuts. I cruised to an easy 7 win draft.

Nahiri's Lithoforming with Phylath, World Sculptor made some opponents concede on the spot!

Marshall “Fake Gamerboi” Sutcliffe

1:17:26 when I read this card after opening it I let out a good chuckle, definitely good meme

Ashaya also triggers landfall on every creature you play, correct? Would this bump up the grade from an A?

1:16:40 the life link clause of taborax single handedly cost me a game. The board was mega stalled but I could never attack despite having a superior ground force because it would turn on the lifelink and I couldn't race in the air. After N turns opponent eventually drew enough removals to manually enable the lifelink and I just lost.

I find it hilarious that they more often put cards in the "B+/A- range" than in the "B/B+ range."

Hey guys! Great content as ever, thank you. Have you ever graded some card A+? Witch card was it?

Felidar Retreat is just bonkers

take a good rest, LSV!

Card pretty much reads "Don't die on the turn you play this and you win, also you get a 2/2 for chump blocking sometimes" and its somehow not insane. You have to be so far behind for Felidar retreat to be bad otherwise you just take some damage and slowly pull back on each following turn with an additional 2/2 or make your board huge with counters.

After getting wrecked by felidar retreat multiple times I think the card is an A+

1:18:29 100% agree with lsv there.

IMHO Marshall is correct about Felidar Retreat. Lands are less than half your deck. If you never missed land drops, & have an extra land on turn 5 you might be behind at that point. Likely will only trigger every other turn (less than 50% land draw rate), so not a landslide. I had it in sealed & it was only helpful in half the games. B is fair since it is so situational. I would much rather have Luminarch by far than this card. BTW, I used to draft MTG in Valhalla's in Wheat Ridge back in the day!

The og cowards can't block warriors was like an unplayable 7 drop aggro card though. So it was a clever but bad joke, this time they made it playable at least.

If someone said to me cowards cant block warriors after id just got screwed or flooded, id be banned from the store.

Yasharn stops: -Merfolk Windrobber from sac/drawing a card. -Kazuul's Fury from sac/flinging. -Skyclave Shadowcat from saccing other creatures. -Roiling Regrowth can't sac lands to cast. -Nahiri's Lithoforming can't sac lands to cast. -Linvala can't sacrifice for your party. -Spare Supplies can't sac for its other card. -Relic vial can't sac creatures for cards. -Myriad construct - I think, can't resolve its second ability if its targetted. So a lot of niche situations - but definitely stuff out there you'll be happy it blocks, if it comes up. Probably Windrobber, Relic Vial, Roiling Regrowth, and Spare supplies most common to block.

I definitely overrated Relic Robber in power level after playing with it a bunch. C+ seems definitely right. I felt like it was B/B- to start but a 2/2 for 3 in this format usually can only swing in once unless your opponent is very much behind.

First Card reviewed starts @6:30

Thanks for the early show! Always great to hear both of your opinions on the new set. Any chance of a M21 sunset show at some point? Curious on the overall opinion on the set. I was never able to really grok the set, always felt like my decks were a bit sub-par.

I drafted Maddening Cacophony with 4 Ruin Golems and still couldn't win that many games. Agree with grade.

1:05:21 okay Luis I see you

Deck the halls with bows of holly...

Aspirant is A- minimum in constructed and limited.

13:25 Think archbishop...

Narcomeba LSV ;) just as a reminder that even he can be wrong. With Marshall on this one

"Hey kid. 😃 Have some +1+1 counters."

I think Orah is better than you rate it because there are a couple of sac outlets that make him insane (Relic Vial being the most thematic in the cleric/life gain deck)

Pretty sure its Lith-o not Lithe- o for the forming.

51:50 I have actually kicked this in the dimir mill deck and won by milling my opponent

Who cast Narcolepsy on Luis?

Seen this vid a few times while MTGA

Instead of a red or white inscription, they gave red and white an off-cycle dual land in needleverge/pillarverge pathway. Seems not worth

1:05:26 "I guess we haven't gotten to the red one yet" Funny, neither did WOTC and then they just called it a day like "Alright, we have to hurry, there is a metagame to ruin"

Saying angels doublestrike is a downside becouse it makes it harder to oneshot the opponent seems wrong considering how many white cards that trigger on each instance of lifegain I would much rather have it as a 2/6 DS than a 4/6. The absurd amount of lifegain triggers the card can generate I would even say that it's a B in it self but an easy build around A

I don't know what Marshall expects out of life. Maybe once you get old enough you no longer have the patience for everything not being 100% perfect all the time with a cherry on top, but down here in what we call reality, Felidar Retreat is unbelievable bomb that is extremely unlikely to end up with a loss for it's controller.

From the little I've seen, Angel of Destiny and Scute Swarm both seem busted in Standard.

Marshall I love you man, but you're wrong about Felidar Retreat. The card is definitely an A

Did Marshall ever try Ethiopian food again?

Im confused how you rated the green inscription lower than the blue one. The green inscription is objectively the best of the cycle. Its the cheapest one. 5 mana is a lot less than 8. You wont get to kick the blue one nearly as often so it doenst make sense to rate it from that perspective.

anyone know what Marshall is drinking? it looks good.. . iced tea?

Leyline tyrant should just be read as 4/4 flyer, spending turn 4 and 12 total mana like lsv's scenario then getting into the roil kicked on you is so game losing its never worth doing unless desperate if vs exile or bounce because it will just lose those games close to 100% of the time when your bomb rare gets hit by a common.

the terms are in fact interchangeable

Poor guys, need a sleep 🙁

I'm absolutely lost in this format. 0-3 and 1-3 in my drafts so far. Is it aggro? Is it grindy? What's going on? I need some high-level advice for how to draft this set. 😭

I do have one more case where I actually consider putting in tutors, even if they are a bit expensive: If I have a ridiculous bomb. In Theros Beyond Death I did play an Idyllic Tutor exactly once, and that was when I had a Kiora Bests the Sea God. I did have some Banishing Lights for the fail case where I'd already drawn my bomb, but being able to pay three mana to have an extra copy of my "I win the game" bomb with the fail case of a removal spell made it worth it in my book. Same with the tutor here: If I think I'll cast it for three mana most of the time, occasionally for two mana, and I have a fail case of four mana, but it gets me my Agadeem's Awakening if we're getting to the late game and I can afford to not affect the board for that one turn because I can do some bad trades and know that I'll be fine because I'll just get all my creatures back, with an appropriate fail case of grabbing a removal spell or something... I might play the card in that deck. Maybe. So they were saying there's a build around aspect to it, and I think there's a second build around case worth considering, where I only have the normal 1-2 Packbeasts and probably won't get full party, but the card I can get is so good that I'm willing to play the tutor as a second copy for three mana and I'm willing to accept the fail case of 4-5 mana (because I'm tutoring for something that good). Anyway, super fringe case, I probably won't pick that card unless I've already got such a ridiculous bomb (maybe I P1P1 Agadeem's Awakening, which is an example I like because it's black and it plays reasonably well with an expensive tutor because of how it catches you up, into getting passed this by a player who knows not to first pick it, and I have the whole draft to think ahead to the fact that I have two copies of my bomb and I can even kind of build around it), it probably won't come up, but if it does I'll probably win a game or two because it all just lined up.

Everyone is commenting about the Felidar Retreat debate. Can't we just agree it's an A- ? Card is basically a game winner at parody or when you're ahead. If you're behind and opponent has a fast/tempo/curve-out deck it may be too slow. But like LSV said, you're never passing this P1P1 unless that rare situation where foil even more busted card is also in your pack. You're not taking an uncommon over this card P1P1. So blah blah quadrant theory, sounds like an A- to me. Amirite guys?

Wait, there's no red and white Inscriptions? Are you f***ing kidding me? I guess having good flexible value spells isn't part of the red&white color pie anymore...also, they "couldn't think of any good designs"? Yeah, right...I think I could slap together a half dozen on the spot.

I don't think I've ever seen a single card leading to a draw like LSV points out with Scourge of the Skyclaves and 2HG.

Aske your Simic Combine Scientist if Verazol is right for YOU!.

get some rest boyz! yall workin too hard!

Marshall is point on the retreat, played against it and beat it even with a stalled board multiple times with it getting activated repeatedly. The format is just too aggressive for it to be A super star

Lotus Cobra, single handedly solving global warming..... Edit: (Hands?)

The #metoo movement has crossed the line with these botposts!! :)

Luis if you buzzed your hair you would look a little like Alex Jones! Lol you could make that a bit, against wotc lizard people hoarding cards from the reserve list.....

Marshall, 2 Bs is a threesome. I agree it's better than just an A.

Sutcliffe is right about felidar retreat. The card is insane but if you don't have ways to get more than one landfall trigger a turn it can be too slow. A B+ is a really good grade and the card is close to a bomb. But it has drawbacks and bombs don't have as many drawbacks.

Marshall always says that unless you mill every card in your opponent's library, milling doesn't do anything. This seems like a weird statement since the same can be said inversely. If I mill your whole library, it doesn't matter that you dealt 19 damage to me. It seems the question should be "does mill have enough support in this meta". Answer that question and I'll be grateful.

Marshall is just wrong about Felidar Retreat imo. Wingmate Roc, which is also an A, has not only a lower floor, but a lower ceiling too.

why are you both sooo tired and still record ? saw more yawns than cards :D thx for the review :D

1:15:00 Jesus Christ Luis! At least put your hand in front of your mouth ^^

Take a drink every time Luis yawns! Dude, get some SLEEP!!!

If someone’s got the spare time, timestamping all the cards ranked A

Mill is disgusting in draft, and I have lost to it either by actually being milled or just not being able to play anything and it's not fun.