Lithuania's Deal For Leopard 2 Tanks 

Lithuanians prefer German cars ... armored too.

So the issue with the "tanks are obsolete" crowd is they are just following a trend in saying tanks are useless and almost never actually sit down and analyze/think what they're saying. As of yet, there is NO OTHER WAY to get a 105mm, 120mm, 125mm, etc. gun into direct fire positions and be able to support fire of an advance. All while being protected and mobile enough to move around and potentially take a hit. Until the day comes where individual soldiers can carry a 120mm cannon and fire directly at a position (hint hint, it won't ever happen) then tanks aren't going anywhere. Did the machine gun and gas warfare make infantry go away? No, they adapted. Did dive bombers make land forces obsolete in WW2 or aircraft carriers make all other ships useless? No everything adapted. Did SAMs make aircraft obsolete during the cold war? No, they adapted. Night vision make day operations obsolete? No, of course not. Drones will not make the tank obsolete, the tank will simply adapt.

Love the looks of the german tanks!

Its not really about the tanks. We are getting german brigade and Reinmetall factory. With that we getting huge security guarantess. Germany will protect its investments

I hate the drone debate. You pin down the enemy with drones. Their defenses are damaged, their vehicles are stuck. Now what? you gonna put a drone there to man the trenches? You need vehicles and soldiers to fight a war, because someone has to take a position and stay there. Someone needs to have a gun in their hands and prevent someone else from going where they are not supposed to. A tank is the equivalent of that for vehicles - it denies the enemy an area. The whole debate is like "We don't need an army, we have an arsenal full of rockets". They won't do much without the assets to back them up.

Yeah, the war has changed a lot, but drones still can be countered by blocking their radiochannels or dealing with them using APS. However, nothing could support infantry as good as tanks do. So having a battalion or two equipped with tanks would enable Lithuanian army to defend or attack more efficently and would save soliders' lifes

Yeah my take: 1. interoperability/training: Germany puts Leopard 2 tanks in Lithuania with its Brigade there, so this makes sense, like you said. 2. Like you said, there is already Leopard 2 maintaince operations in Lithuania, so that creates some synergies obviously, the purchased tanks will be possible to maintain in the country itself 3. Possibly that maintainence operation in ltihuania could be used for the final assembly fo the Leopard 2 if they wanted that.. since a full range tank maintainence and repair hub has everything needed to completely assemble (and disassemble) a Leopard 2, then again might not be worth it for only 52 of them. Leopard 2 is the only tank option that in principle allows for local final assembly.

Another really good account of the value of tanks. They’re not a silver bullet, they’re a capability that is part of the whole. I believe they are, on balance, worth the investment.

Tank you for this video! Please never stop making these kinds of videos, you are one of my favorite youtubers.

There is no replacement for good tanks. Norway also opted for Leopard 2 a8.

Tanks work fine if you have air superiority. Lithuania is NATO and NATO is air superiority. So, if Lithuania is in, NATO is in and Putin is out!

Germany is currently (2024) stationing Panzerbrigade 45 in Lithuania (Rūdninkai, Rukla), which is of course equipped with Leopard 2s. It therefore makes sense that the Lithuanian armed forces should also acquire Leopard 2 battle tanks. The primary role of the German army in Lithuania is to deter and thus prevent war. Main battle tanks are probably the most effective means of deterrence, while drones, for example, have almost no deterrent value. If deterrence fails, the costs of a military conflict are so enormous that the costs of operating a main battle tank in peacetime are practically irrelevant in comparison. Btw.: already 40 years ago in the German Armed Forces were discussions whether it would make sense to equip reconnaissance battalions with both battle tanks and drones.

They didn't need to rename the King Mindaugas Hussars into "KM Tank Battalion" when Hussars are already cavalry...

My 2 cents if even a lil late, Cons. (as I, armchair general, think it's the wrong decission) 1) this is a clear departure of the current Lithuanian doctrine of assimetric warfare for the defense of the land, a big deal, but i don't think its defense needs have changed, it seems like a kneejerk reaction than a well thought out force design, 2) 2 Billion euros is the whole defense budget for the year, I'm sure it can be spent in a more efficient fashion than just 54 ( rumored) vehicles, especially in a time of rapid military innovation in the ukranian war.While i don't think the tank is obsolete, this iteration if it, the main battle tank, (70t, 30-40M$,4 crew, each) seems to be on it's way out, to be replaced bu something available to field in higher quantities 3) my belief that the tank mainly brings speed, fire support, all which can be achieved with a Vilkas (boxer) with a 105mm gun module like the John Cockerill's, or a newly designed 120mm gun (like a tank gun) module, given that the order numbers could be much higher, given the lower price, local manufacture, module design could be on the tables, it's a platform already in use by Lithuania, it's wheeled, which reduces the logistical burden (maintenance, fuel) and you don't lose much as all it's support vehicles are wheeled to and as such they couldn't go to the harshest terrain anyways 4) as a solution in the middle, a tracked IFV could be turned into a light tank, like the CV90105/120, the same punch,mobility less armour, more numbers Pros, (Leo 2) 1) whichever tank was chosen, doesn't really matter they are all excellent vehicles that have had many export successes, so individual quality shouldn't be the deciding factor, 2) already set up logistics suport, and trained workforce in it's maintenance 3) The hability to work with infantry already used to cooperate with Leo2, and it's easier to move the IFV's in a armoured battallion than the tanks, TLDR: for a whole years worth of defense budget, you get 54 tanks, which might become obsolete in the short term, i believe there are better, more efficent ways of investing that amount.

As a non German I would like to see all of Europe opting for the Leopard 2 and his successor. Simply because of its well-deserved reputation, of its already many users and because Europe needs to unify its arms produktion to become way more affordable and easier and cheaper to maintain and to unify their combined defense efforts.

The tank is not obsolete in itself. It will simply undergo evolution like many times before to suit the modern battlefield. Namely active and passive defense mechanisms and electronic warfare will be implemented.

The new version have active defence system against drones and missiles. But a Puma makes more sense. With the right ammunition they can break heavy armour. With brust ammunition they can shoot drones. They shoot faster and are more flexible and faster. But also the lynx could be a good choice. He can even carry the gun of the Leo but still has the advantages of the puma. They have also drones and missiles as another long range weapon.

Drones can't hold ground. In order to hold, take and defend ground you need vehicles. And the vehicles that are most difficult to be destroyed and have the best firepower and protection are tanks.

i would probably go for Patria AMW myself, mix of 105mm gun/120mm mortar, for 2B could get like 400-500 of them :D they are ~4m a piece

Lithuania needs good allies and the ability to work closely with them.

It's just crazy, how expensive these tanks are.

If you don't have tanks and don't have means to defend against drones, the drones will strike your APC's, AFW's and artillery. It's not like drones only used to destroy tanks. And if you have means to defend against drones, you can freely use tanks on the battlefield. Right now NATO don't have very prominent anti-drone weapons that would cover everything. But many prototypes are in works. Some of them are produced by Lithuanian manufacturers in cooperation with Ukrainian MIC. But drone tactics change so fast that it will take time to find a long lasting solution. So I say, let's buy tanks and look what's going on and save some money for upcoming anti-drone weapons.

I wonder what they would have thought of the Challenger tanks from the UK if they were to evaluate them. I heard that tanks for such a small country like Lithuania are not useful and instead they would focus on high mobility.

Maybe one another reason is, that the delivered ukrainian Leopard 1 and 2 have their maintenance in Lithuania. Until 2027 Germany will have a garrison at LIthuania with a Tank-Brigade too.

think drones are important part of a future battlefiled and this for offence as well as defence. This said tanks (and fighers/bombers, warships) that are, at least for the foreseable futere, manned still play an important role. Also not a big fan of letting a drone army (even controlled from a desk somewhere) fight but that is more a philosophical discuussion about war and the price of war.

Given the uncertainty about the USA in NATO, it's a good idea for all three Baltic states to increase the strength of their armed forces.

what variant did they request though?

Nice!

Eins ist klar, die Panzer können mit relativ einfachen Mitteln auch gegen Drohnen resistent gemacht werden und ich meine damit nicht die ulkigen russischen Aufbauten sondern aktive rundum Verteidigung die beim Annähern von Drohnen diese mit einem Splitterhagel begegnet.

It is not one over the other, a mix is needed. What the right blending ratio is much more relevant discussion.

My guess is that they will be part of the foreign component of the 45th that will be stationed in Lithuania if the news is correct. That means a cooperation with Dutch and German troops. The French and Norwegian forces will probably have some presence there too. Just to show the enemy in the east we all mean business.

Nice & Cool

i don't think so that Lithuania would need to buy tanks i mean it costs alot and if it would be war in Lithuania it would be a big risk to lose a tank

Next Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia should bargain together to get 18 or so Gripen fighters from Sweden.

I think we have some Leopard 2 A4/6 service/repair in finland also.. I don't how wasted tanks they repair..

Tanks are not useless, but the weapons to destroy them are getting more and more sophisticated. And this also applies to the weapons that are intended to prevent so-called air superiority. It's a race!!

While as a german i basicly would have to say that its a good tank, but i guess others have done that more than enough already. I can see the argument about drones though. For that reason maybe Pumas as their AA defense capabilties are what would be needed to protect against drones, rockets and even artillery shells if i am not mixing up plattforms. Otherwise ofcause have drones yourself, they can also be used to target enemy drones after all. Then again there are also some critical voices out there that do not yet 100% trust the impact drones had. Electronic counter measure systems of russians seem to be effectiv in many cases and i heared estimates that only 1 out of 10 drones will get through to a target. Which still makes them cost effectiv should they hit high value targets that cost just that much more. Then there are currently new artillery munitions being tested, i think they are called ramjet shells and germany just delivered a batch to Ukrain. Longer range 100km(other sources named propably up to 150km), hypersonic, less barrel wear and tear increasing their lifecycle and come as 155mm.

Lithuania will just add mass to the complex of available tanks in case of conflict. It is not able to defend itself but, as part of nato, those tanks could add weight to a counteroffensive. It is not like modern tanks grow on trees today and someone have to make them built.

2 bn eur. worth of developed drone capability would probably do 100x deterance and actual comact power than tanks

If the tank will have defence systems from drones then yea its good buy.

Only Tanks are not a good choice. Boxer AFV's and Leopard Tanks should be a better one. A direct tank to tank fight are in these days rare, More Panzerfaust 3 would be smart.

Active Protection Systems will be vital for the survivability of these new tanks

Here is the thing: Plane always has beaten tanks ... its just, that we have a lot more small planes aka drones now. Thats why tanks do not operate alone. They have there moblie AA with them. And there are existing AA's that eat drones as a snack AND systems that are in development that do so cost effectively. I am talking cents per shoot. And i bet you, that in the near future we may have an active protection system against drones for tanks as a last line of defense (before the armor).

I think its a huge mistake.. norway did the same contract, for 54 tanks. But prior to that, they did trials and testings, and choose leopard over the black panther, simply because there were more leopards in the region. Now, we now that poland might procure up to 1000 black panthers, so why we are choosing leopards? Plus, its 40 mln eur per tank, we are not rich country like norway, we cannot afford it. Black panther cost is 20 mln per tank, but as stated by norway, its not worse than leopard. If we would choose other tank options, we would save 1 billion eur, which is almost all our yearly budget on spending, and we could procure more air defense, or other essential stuff..

A tank alone is useless. But if you don't have tanks in combined arms warefare, you will have a gap that can cost you a loss on the battle field.

Demise of the tank is BS. Next gen APS (Trophy, ADS, Iron Fist) are all optimized to also defeat to attack munitions. If they can stop missiles, they can stop the much slower drones. There are also plenty of new options for Remote Weapons Stations to put on the roof of a Leo that are capable of shooting down approaching drones at longer range. You could even have a multi layered defense of - RWS on turret roof (outer layer) - Trophy or Iron Fist (mid layer) - ADS/Strikeshield modules (inner layer) with integrated MUSS2.0 electronic warfare elements Plus smoke launchers. And that's before talking protection by other nearby vehicles in the brigade like Skyranger but also IFVs etc that can fight drones.

Tanks, drones, rockets, artillery all the shebang.

Lithuania, the Poland of the Batlics.

The comments by 4:00 are from a military perspective not thought out. Yes drones and loitering amunations are a new thread for tanks. We can see this daily in Ukraine but on the other hand nearly every square meter taken in Ukraine heppened with heavy cavalry aka. tanks.

God, i hope they don't get any After Ukraine we've just seen how armored units are just death traps in general, Leopard, Abrams or T-90 tanks. Just get more IFV's. At least they provide a mobility function.

European countries should arrange to have similar weapon systems, so we can repair each others gear.

Yes we need tanks. As one of a counter attack weapon.

Tanks will also change ! They are not obsolet ! They duel concept of todays tanks ( which is still from the ``cold war``) is !

NATO allies appreciate Lithuanians brothers arming up. Everybody knows they are a target for russia and deterrence will be important

How many drone divisions you could create for 2 billion dollars? Way more cost-effective.

💙💛💙💛💙💛

Tanks, AA's, AA's, AA's Some rolands, gepards, SPA's, SPA's.

Need an airforce!!

German tanks on the eastern front. Same old. 😛

0 views in 19 seconds, bro fell off

Drones, drones, and more drones! Tanks are easy prey for aviation and drones. Lithuania should buy 200 Boxer platforms without turrets and develop its own laser interception turret to combat drones with lasers. Lasers are the most efficient way to destroy drones, and we could also receive huge orders from other NATO countries in the future. At the same time, our laser industry would boom!

I'm from Lithuania. Yes, Lithuania need one tank brigade. That is a modest amount of tanks for such a nation. It doesn't brake a bank and provides us with crucial capabilities which we do not have. Namely, to counter attack. If enemy manages to capture crucial position, with armored brigade, we can pose a serious offensive threat to the invaders. Without tanks, our army is just garrisons. A stationary lines which impede progress of attackers. The best case scenario, it is like Ukraine. Russia would just chip away at our territory, slowly shrinking us at the steep cost to invaders. A practical example: Russia takes Suwalki Gap. Lithuania together with Poland starts a counter offensive from both axis of attacks. Lithuania can effectively support Poland's offensive on taking minor targets with its battalion while its infantry provides buffer to the frontlines and a defensive garrison. Armored Battalion on the other hand is committed in assaulting a town and surrounding it thus enabling further infantry deployment and street to street engagements. As for criticism. This is coming from people who doesn't know anything. In decades on youtube, I never seen a person who really knows what he is talking about. The most I had encountered is military personnel, but believe it or not, they also are just humans with varying opinions on stuff which can range from very good to trashy.

Good luck ....with Germans

first

That Guy, Noah = 🤡

The Leopard 2 has shown to be very unsuited for the terrain it will be deployed in. Other than that it is also very thinly armored to be up to modern standards. So it is wasted money. I think the K2 would have been a much better choice.

😂😂😂😂😂

They repair old Leopards but problem with that is they lack spare parts. Poles were more suited to repair them in large part because they operate old Leopards for a long time now and managed to learn how to produce many parts that are no longer available. Unfortunately Germans wanted pretty much to completely control factory and Poles said no.

leopard 2 is the right choice for nato integration and logistics.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Please

as a lithuanian who served in millitary all i can say is that this is nonsense, our country cant afford to buy even 5 of these tanks let alone afford the maintinance fees, lets not even talk about 54 of them, our country isnt that rich to begin with and in truth a lot of our millitary funding gets washed away by corrupt officials

Leopard 2 is a GREAT tank BUT the Germans take forever to fulfill orders and they typically come with a lot of petty strings attached, on the other hand the Korean Black Panther is a terrific tank as well and Korea typically delivers EARLY on orders and with Poland also now going to be manufacturing them delivery times should be even better.

We all know these are overpriced overrated Geman tanks, can be disabled easily with cheap drones in Ukraine

Tanks are neccecery to build up army mass, countries without natural defencive terrain must have them or get steamrolled in a heartbeat.

Drones rules