Ha ha, I'm glad you're making no apologies for doing another video on this! Let's face it, it's a fascinating topic for many of us. Don't have time to listen right now, but you'd better believe I'll listen later on. Looking forward to it!
Thank you so much for being a big enough man ; ) to admit you were initially wrong about Andrew Borden. It has always bothered me that Andrew and Abby have been slandered so much after the horrible injustice and indignity of their murders; almost certainly at the hands of someone they had done a lot for, and had every reason to trust. I've been interested in this case for decades, and have watched all your videos on the subject with great interest.
I believe in following the evidence, and the evidence proves Andrew was not a miser. It shows anyone can fall prey to rumors accepted as fact for decades.
No excuses needed for another Lizzie Borden video! Really enjoy your true-crime videos - amazing how endlessly fascinating the Lizzie Borden case has become, and how it's always interpreted each generation according to the cultural zeitgeist of the moment. As you note, it's best just to look at the known facts.
I have watched a lot of videos on the Borden murders. I have to say, your videos on these murders are the best out of them all. You go into great detail about these crimes, and you know exactly the true facts about the case and not speculation or fiction. I also agree with you that Lizzie definitely committed these murders.
Emma was gone, Bridget was outside for some time, she took the opportunity, it left her in the house alone with them, she kept a watch on Bridget out the window, this was definitely a hate crime & she had plenty of hate for them both, it was overkill, she was a good liar, she definitely used a axe or hatchet, she wasted no time spending the money, Emma didn’t have anything to do with it
Wow. I’ve been interested in this case since I was young. I’m now 27. Everything you said made perfect sense! Especially about andrews coat, I never thought of that. She had to kill him in his coat. Thank you!
Great video and very interesting observation of the murder weapon being the iron. That makes more sense as you said if it was an ax or hatchet Mr Borden's head would have severely damaged or even cut in half. Plus Mr Borden wasn't a miser either giving his daughters $132 a week. Of course I didn't get anything as an allowance as a kid and if I did it wouldn't have been that much.
Indeed, but it could have been done in half the time! Although I find the argument quite plausable, one could argue that if Lizzie was in panic mode, Emma would have been beyond panic for years, considering her age, yet nothing happened. Andrew might have smelled a rat when struggling with the front door, which is why he became collateral. There was no urgency to eliminate him once the stepmother was gone.
Mess up on typing my comment. I think if Lizzie wore Andrew’s wool coat to collect the blood spatter, then put it under his head when he was dead, that’s a pretty smart thing to do to hide blood spatter evidence. Diabolical but smart. It meant she really thought about how to do this. Given the reluctance of the all male jury to convict a woman, particularly when a guilty verdict meant she would be hanged, I don’t think the jury was going to convict her no matter what evidence was presented that might convict her. So she wore a dress that she changed out of and hid for Abby’s murder. One that had not been seen by anyone else in the house that morning. Then she hid it. She then welcomed her father home and he took off his coat which she put on. Then she sent Bridget to the third floor attic. Then she killed Andrew. And like you said put the coat under his head. A chilling circumstance where she planned everything and had circumstantial luck to get it done. Good video. Thanks.
The reason people try to find excuses for Lizzie is that she looks so benign and rather sweet in her younger photos. Andrew, being an elderly man past his prime, does not. Simple as that. (By the way, I like your comments about the iron being used rather than an axe or hatchet. People who haven't used an axe or hatchet wouldn't have thought of this, but I bow to your experience on the subject.)
Raven is precious! I used to always believe Lizzie acted alone but now I think she had an acomplice. I think she let someone in and helped them get out without detection. Although now I think there were people "on the street" that day that did see the accomplice. There are different accounts of eyewitnesses who said they saw someone suspicious around the Borden house. All of them are different and I heard one not too long ago where a lady was said to have seen s man leaving the Borden's back yard late that morning. I think Lizzie was behind it all, whomever her accomplice was. The iron makes so much sense but yet I'm still not certain. They do looked bludgeoned rather that cut or sliced. If course there are cuts but still their heads look POUNDED. I will probably change my mind again in a year!
No evidence of an accomplice, and the woman who claimed to see a man leave the yard never reported it to police and was a family story put in the newspaper in 1997. None of the neighbors reported seeing anyone nor was this woman mentioned by those on the scene just minutes after the murder. It makes no sense and must be dismissed as a urban legend.
Your conversational story-telling style makes for very good videos.👍 It would be helpful to add links for all your Lizzie Borden videos in the description:) ❤Raven.
Your evidence? Of course, it’s none. We have absolutely no idea the extent of the relationship between these sisters. No one person who was contemporary has ever testified nor insinuated that Emma Borden had a vindictive, manipulative personality. All that knew her stated she was extremely demure and quiet. Definitely the more meek and shy of the two sisters. You are offering wildly imaginative speciation that’s not grounded in even the most minor evidence nor record. Yours sounds more like plot of a cheap mystery novel than reality.
A triumph as always, I would never have thought of the iron but I agree very plausible, with it being January another true crime topic to cover I would like to see is about the Black Dahlia case another crime with a lot of misinformation and rumor that would be probably several part feature to do it justice. Though of course going back to lizzie borden case i find it hard to believe that her sister after everything still protested her innocence contrary to logic and of course all the people involved never really seemed to share their true feelings about it afterwards. Everybody just clams up about it.
I really enjoy your videos. I have been fan of Lizzie Borden since hearing the rhyme in school. I started hearing more of the flat iron being the murder weapon over the past few years. It does answer the odd cuts on Abbey but the first blow was face to face and landed on the side of Abbeys face. I read that this cut a slice of the side almost completely off. I try to imagine doing this with a flat iron just seems like it would be awkward. My other thought is from the autopsy report of finding I think it was called guilt or guild in Abbey's wounds. Would a flat iron that has been used or even new leave these particals? What about the cut to Andrews eye, which was a clean cut slicing it in two. Not sure how a flat iron could cause this to happen. Thank you again for the videos, please keep them coming. I would really like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
Thank you for this additional video. You checked the transcripts and shown that the bodies had not been moved before the photos had been taken. That had been one of my questions. I had read that Lizzie was close to her father even though there were disagreements. The murder of Andrew was brutal and frenzied. So why did Lizzie kill him this way? Had they had a resent quarrel? I believe that Lizzie is most likely the killer. Will there ever be definitive proof?
Yes he did. I mentioned this in my number 4 video. He was not a miser. That’s a widely accepted myth that has been completely discredited by a review of his bank and financial records.
Good job! I have to go back and watch Parts 2 & 3! When I was 13 in 1973,I found a New England type magazine about Lizzie Borden and the murders. I was fascinated. A few years later the TV movie came on with Elizabeth Montgomery. I loved it. I have since read a few books, did research on the net and watched more than a few RU-vid videos, documentaries. I just saw the film with Christina Ricci as Lizzie. she was good. I didn't like the plot as compared to the other one I saw.
Very good, especially when it comes to adjusting the facts about Mr. Borden. Nobody deserves a bad reputation that he or she hasn't earned, even if they are dead!
Lizzie had to have something on to cover up her clothing from blood spattered. What happened to those clothes is the biggest question. The coat theory is reasonable.
The Emma theory is just ridiculous. Briget didn't do it absolutely no motive. There was no intruder. Lizzie had to have committed this crime. If she had committed this crime today she would have been on death row.
There was no intruder. Lizzie watched that door like a bank vault. She let her secret lover come in to help her do the dirty work. Lizzie even told her nurse what happened, but no one is listening.
We can say it’s nearly impossible for anyone else to have done it. But still no proof that she did it. No weapon and no actual evidence beyond circumstance
Loved your Lizzie Borden videos. What do you think of the claims that Mr. Borden killed Lizzie's pigeons earlier in the summer of 1892? That gets mentioned in most documentaries I've watched, along with two of the Lizzie Borden films.
It’s legend and rumor not true. Truth is Lizzie didn’t have pigeons. Some pigeons got in his barn and were shitting on his hay. That can be dangerous to a horse. So he killed thrm.
I wonder why did Lizzie go for Andrew’s face? Did she use the flat iron or a hatchet on him? His eyeball was sliced in half likely by something rather sharpe and with some weight.
have you ever seen the Mythbusters video where they test out the theory? it was talking about using an axe during a zombie killing, but still. I've like watching Mythbusters but I'd also been skeptical about it too, including when they use the gel heads. it's mixed feelings.
Andrew Borden didn't have time to take a nap. I believe that Lizzy attacked him within minutes of him coming home and I also believe that Bridget probably knew more than she did.
Are you 69 years old? I’m 53 and can sit in my chair for 2 minutes and be out. Whether fully asleep or not what the evidence shows is no resistance at all. No injuries to his hands or any attempt to rise or escape. He was obviously laying and didn’t see it coming. There is 0 evidence Bridgett knew anything more than she said. Their is evidence it traumatized her for life. Belief is useless without supporting evidence.
Hello again BPM. Did you see the Travel channel special on Sunday March 5th, 23 about "The curse of Lizzie Borden" Not sure I bought all they were selling but I watch everything I can About LB. Maybe you could watch it anf give us your take on it. Just a thought. We like your Lizzie vids.
I think that the murderer think of wearing a heavy coat and then placing it under the head of Andrew’s head after the murders. That way the blood spatter would not be seen on the perpetrator.
I always thought the hatchet or axe would have caused even more damage. The prosecutors even at that time should have known this. They were incompetent.
my big question is what would she have put on her head at the time of the murders? I 100% believe that she did it, and I know you talked about the coat, but wouldn't have just covered her body? what kind of hair piece would she have worn? I would think she would have had to have worn something to cover up her hair. I don't know if they would have had hair nets back in the day or not.
@@bigprettyman3795 okay, sorry about that. I watched all your videos, and I’ve watched almost all of them multiple times except for the first one, and that’s mainly because I’d heard the story of Lizzie Borden many times before. It’s amazing how anyone can tie up their hair enough to not get a drop of blood showing anywhere.
@@saraszekely7651 she could have wrapped her head in a tea towel, and then slipped a snood (a crocheted type net thing women wore over their hair for centuries) over everything to hold the tea towel in place. There would be little blood, if any, in her hair. Snoods take only seconds to slip on. I have several myself. They are great when you're cleaning!
Bill James book "The man from the train" addresses the ax murders of Villisca and many more. The murderer always used the back of the ax. He was obviously experienced in using one, and understood that it would be easy for the blade to stick. They know he used the back of the ax because he always left the ax at the crime scene. I would love to have a modern forensic scientist look at the skulls and photos and see which weapon would make the most sense.
No they weren’t. Have you ever struck something with an old fashion iron? I have. My grandmother collected them. I’ve struck trees playing with them. They absolutely will cut. I’ve swung many hatchets, and they will even split a hogs head to the teeth. Those heads would have been sliced mush.
I don’t think she was keeping an official count. However, the step-mother got about 8 more than the Dad, and we know she had animosity with the Step-Mom.
To add to my comments in another one of your LB videos. If we accept the fact that Lizzy did it, the least explored relationship would be that of Lizzy and Emma; most particularly Emma's influence over Lizzy. Lizzy was very young when Andrew married Abby. There isn't really any evidence that Lizzy even remembered her mother, but Emma did. There wouldn't be any reason for Lizzy and Abby to not form a mother-daughter relationship from the beginning....except for Emma. It appears, whether out of a sense of loyalty to their mother or simply a dislike or distrust from the beginning Emma made sure that a loving mother-daughter relationship never took hold. It seems Emma used every opportunity to discredit Abby and remind Lizzy that that woman was not her mother. Years of that whispering campaign would take its toll on an unstable young girl. Added to that might be Also convincing Lizzy that Andrew was beyond reasoning with as he was under Abby's control. Years of this would end up dehumanizing both Andrew and Abby in Lizzy's mind. I'm sure this comes across as so much psycho-babble but my point is this: Emma may have been instrumental in pushing an already unstable sociopath into a remorseless killer.
No evidence whatsoever Emma undermindedAbby. That’s from the documentary Deadly women. Not one bit of documentation to back this up.we know practically nothing about the dynamics in that house other than Lizzie and Sbby didn’t get along. The rest of this has no foundation in evidence.
this sounds like a weird question, but something that has loomed over my head: has forensics looked around the house like the stove, basement, etc to see if there was any lasting DNA evidence around the area where the bodies were found? is there a strange possibility that DNA evidence would still be on the suspected axe that they found?
I don't think there would be any DNA left, the house has been remodeled several times, and it's been only restored rather recently. There are only a few things left in the house that are original. The radiators are, a sistern in the basement, the cabinet in Lizzie's bedroom, the fireplaces, the door to the attic, to name a few. All of the baseboards and door jams have been painted numerous times. There are only two of the original windows left. It has been wallpapered over, and wallpaper was also removed in the past. Like I said, little is left at all from the time period.
It just seems like overkill, which I guess if someone was money hungry enough it could produce that kind of rage, but it’s unusual. However, we are also presuming she was somewhat sane. Please do a Jack the Ripper video!!! That would be amazing.
Nope. That was said decades later. Nobody was found or arrested, and neither maid who were outside during the murder saw anyone. Bridgett testified to this.
You are professional and interesting Historian. I have Loved History from an extremely young age. Always asking questions, wanting to understand the past, Always curious about the how and whys of the past to better understand the past. Appreciate your podcast presentations debating a variety of possibilities. Let's face it, this is the Locked Room "who done it." As much as there is circumstantial evidence to convict Lizzie, likewise the evidence collected did not hurdle over proving beyond a reasonable doubt Lizzie was the murderer. What about the Blood Spatter? Wouldn't the splatter of blood leave a imprint on the possible height and size of who killed the Mr & Mrs? Fact that moments after her Father was killed, Lizzie was clean of any blood. No one, in my mind, could have in the short timeline Mr was found dead had time to hide or ditch a weapon, nor change clothes, plus not have a hair out of order. I lean toward Lizzie had to see the Who did the killings (and Maggie too for that matter). Lizzie & Emma had substantial bank balances as per the Fall River Historical Society. Lizzie took her cues from Emma regarding their Step Mother. Lizzie called her Mother up until the dispute about the "duplex" home Andrew gifted to his wife. I believe her sister lived in a divided home or duplex with her mother-in-law whom wanted to sell her home. If Mrs. Borden hadn't helped her sister the historical society states She would have been homeless as the sister did not have the $$$. ** Remember under the lens of the 19th C, women had limited choices and were at the mercy of the Male who had sole rights over woman in their family. The daughters were spoiled. ** Home was roomy and fitted with as many updates as AJB could embrass.
You got a lot of misinformation. In truth Emma inherited it all, and split it 50/50 with her sister by choice. Also, Emma moved away after a falling out with Lizzie, bout a house in New Hampshire and lived out her days comfortably. The house that was in question was bought by Andrew for the girls step-mothers half sister because the landlord was going to throw her out. The girls got angry he did this so he sold themm their grandfathers house for $2 so they could get the rent revenue. Emma lived at home with parents and sister then with Lizzie at her home until the fall out and then lived alone in NH until her desth. On the blood, see my other videos on the subject.
You offer no evidence for either assertion. I’ve offered the transcript evidence that the coat was there at the time of discovery, and the circumstantial evidence that shows she was alone at the time of her step-mother’s murder and thus acted alone. Unless you offer evidence to contradict these two conclusions based upon testimonial and circumstantial evidence with your own evidence, then your so definitively-stated conviction has no support and is thus dismissed.
I used to believe Lizzie did it based on the fact that she was seemingly the only person who could have; however Yellow Cottage Tales (you tube channel video) has a great theory that changed my mind. The police never looked into any other possibility that it might have been someone outside the household. I get her killing her step mother but why her father, whom she loved? Once the step mother is out of the way, her and her sister stand to inherit just by waiting on her father to pass. If she did it, she didn't plan very well - why didn't she run out of the house screaming that it was a man she saw that ran off? Also, according to Myth busting Lizzie Borden (the video put out by the Nashua Historical Society) - the weather that day was a high of 83 degrees according to the weather records. So there is a lot of misinformation still out there.
What evidence exists and the timeline, motive, means and opportunity all point to nobody else but Lizzie Borden. Lizzie Borden killed her parents. In the temperature issue see my Lizzie Borden Revisited video.
See that same video where I examined someone from outside committing this crime. Also entering and exiting unseen was practically impossible. All scenarios are ridiculous with the weight of the facts. It was an inside job, and Lizzie was the only one in the house with her stepmother. She killed her parrnts.
The police did in fact investigate the possibility that this was done by someone on the outside. And they found nothing. To say that the police did not consider that it may have been done by someone outside the family is totally inaccurate. And any RU-vid channel that says this has not done their research properly. Goes to show you can't believe everything you hear on the internet
Based on what evidence do you contend that the police never concentrated on anyone but Lizzie? Did you check the actual police files? Or is it purely based on Yellow Cottage Tales, one of the worst for any substantial source? Exactly the point I’m making and its definitely not tru with just a bit of research based on authentic sources. Lizzie wasn’t a true suspect until the Inquest. Police records show they investigated his colleagues and renters, and dragged in the regular town criminals before ever thinking of Lizzie.truth was they found it hard to accept the possibility. Also, as I’ve went over in prior video, the idea of an outsider be it a vengeful renter or a burglar getting in that house at 9am on a Sunny Thursday with two maids out front, with three people home, kill one, wait a near hr and half, kill the other, all unseen and escape covered in blood seen by no one in the neighborhood. It’s a ridiculous theory. The police looked at her because this was an obvious inside job and she’s the only inside with both victims.
