London's Alternative High Speed 2 Stations 

Not everywhere!

Spooky

​@teecefamilykent Indeed, he has mentioned he has a decent amount of viewers from across the pond in the US, but an after midnight upload isn't the norm' here It'll be a simple explanation.

@@teecefamilykent it is for him

@MrNerv Mr.Hazzard doesn't do simple. However if you look at my name, I do !!

Or BPSSUS for short,unless there's already a K-pop group called that. Bagpuss,perhaps.

My head…

It is.

Me in London up way too late saying the same thing 😂

Me a northerner and it's the same

Me a Canadian in bed and agreeing!

I'm in Minnesota and am lying in bed watching this

Hello, fellow American.

Well said. For many people north of London the most important onward connection is HS1. This would alleviate onward travellers from having to use central London. Stratford would be the cheapest option, inconvenience Londoners the least, and maximise the benefits of long distance high speed rail.

@@drewdaly61 had the Elizabeth line been planned by that point, it probably would have been a serious contender. Direct connections to the docklands would also have stood in its favour.

​@mbrady2329 the Elizabeth line began construction either during or shortly after this initial HS2 study was underway.

Good idea, but then those through trains have to end up somewhere and if not going to France because of security and border issues, where would you then build the terminus for them to turn round at? Ebbsfleet or Ashford?

@@ADAMEDWARDS17If a HS1/HS2 hub was created you could terminate a lot of trains there.

But it was thought through. Platforms on stations on the ECML were lengthened to take Eurostar trains, I can even remember seeing Eurostar trains on test runs at Peterborough. The sleeping cars were built but never entered service and eventually sold off to Canadian Railways. Apparently the bean counters in Whitehall did not like the idea. (does it not remind you of more recent episodes)

@@daviddearden6372 I knew about the earlier sleepers, but at the time, journeys were under four hours. HS2 is (was potentially) a whole new ball game. Pity.

It was looked at and the volume of expected traffic was just not considered to be sufficient. Also, it's not even as if there are such trains on HS1.

@@TheEulerID HS1 trains don't go go far enough to warrant sleepers. Edinburgh to Toulouse might. At present the last train to Paris is 2001 and the first around 0600. Running one train per hour all night would be a start. For a long time, there were no flights from Gatwick to Paris, but Eurostar killed the Kent market.

@@pmichael73 You miss the point. Trains could travel on the HS1 route to much more remote destinations by rail using sleeper services if there was a demand, and as there must be at least 15 million people within an hour of St. Pancras, if there isn't a market for that, then there most certainly won't be one from Edinburgh to Paris. As it is, you can get a sleeper service to London and then be in Paris a couple of hours later on HS1, so there's not much difference anyway. As it is, there are only two sleeper services in the whole of the UK anyway (Paddington-Cornwall and Euston-Scotland). You can invent all sorts of possible routes, but make them economic is another thing entirely. As for starting at Edinburgh, then as I point out, you can do the bit to London by sleeper anyway, and extending high speed train to Edinburgh is a a pipe dream.

This would've been decided long before the library got permission anyways, so it's a valid idea.

@@hrishiv even back in 2009 the British Library had 5 basement levels that run deeper than that the nearby tube lines, I do remember reading/seeing somewhere that the Victoria line runs alongside one of the basement levels

or HS2 do all three: 1. Euston put the 6 trains at grade (per existing concept), and 2. add a switch and dive some additional tracks under Euston, and put some additional HS2 platforms under existing Euston curving East...then later tie those into CrossRail2 when that is done. This could add maybe 4 trains into to HS2 Euston (10 total). So there would be 6 above ground and 4 underground. and.... 3. make those underground HS2 Euston platforms a thru , curve around and into St. Pancras HS1. All three could be accomplished at Euston HS2. Getting existing 6, additional 4 trains (10 total), bridge to St.Pancras and Crossrail2, and HS1 connectivity. done!

There is space using the Euston Fire Station and Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital , so it could work. I suppose they could have run the tunnels under the A40 and one big station joining Paddington Marylebone where half the trains could terminate and one joining Euston - KX for the other half service.

@@Carlos-im3hn I like that idea, though that doesn't take into consideration of the buildings above - a curve from HS2 into St.P HS1 would mean a far higher expense in the relocation of the British Library as it would pass through the existing basements, and those new levels that have recently been given permission, it would also cut the prepared "box" for Crossrail 2 which is already safeguarded (back in 2009 and 2017) during the renovations and expansion of Kings Cross and St. P [There is also a similar box at Tottenham Court Road]. Such a plan would also mean the removal of the Canal Tunnels which links the ECML to the Thameslink Lines through St.P given that HS1 currently pass over the top of in their own tunnels. Personally what is needed in my opinion is to get all the current rail operators, national rail, TfL, HS1, Eurostar, HS2 and Crossrail in a room and plan out exactly what needs to happen to deal with the mass of lines in the area and plan for any shut down and rebuilding, and where trains go in that period, and any future plans for expansion then put it to parliament. But we all know thats unlikely to happen. As an aside I'd also argue that perhaps it may well be worthwhile for the British Library to consider moving out of London all together, or make their main base in Leeds with just a smaller outpost in London.... Such a move would allow a relatively large worksite for the plans.

It always makes me think of Ye Olde Oak ham.

Is this tube channel or RU-vid channel or is that the joke ?!!

Agreed, that would be a great idea 👍 There have certainly been quite a few projects that never quite evolved and a few that still might.

Trees are incredibly easy to replace with new trees. And if we are going to lower environmental damage, and reduce pollution, switching travel from domestic flights to electrified high speed rail is the fastest way to start reversing the damage.

@@DavidShepheard ah, i see, you didn't even bother to look even a tiny bit into it since everything you said is wrong

Stuttgart 21 ptsd

​@@enisra_bowmanerm what? Domestic flights are horrible..

@@Elibuwu no, all the Parts of defending the S21 Scam from conservative Politicians that wanted some realestate and then needlesly destroyed a Park in the process and it's still not finished. Also Stuttgart already sits on a Highspeedline that "soon" get's connected to another one up north and Lufthansa "flys" Passengers between Cologne and Stuttgart per ICE anyway

Thought it be a no brainer connecting HS2 to HS1 with platforms and terminating at St Pancras 🤔

@@kstar22ify Yeah you would, but our government doesn't have much of a brain between them all. 🥴

It's pretty ludicrous when you look at it from a position closer to it too. 🙂 Especially when you consider that a big thing was made of the North Of London Eurostars and Nightstars when the Chunnel was being dug and neither of them materialised in passenger service.

Why would that be cheaper? Crossrail cost 18 billion. And uses narrower tunnels than HS2. And has platforms half the length. The West end and the city are riddled with tunnels and land/construction is hideously expensive.

Exactly this. International travel from all parts of mainland UK by rail. Instead it's a London to Midlands line, which has already failed, Grand Central. Just a scheme to pay construction companies billions for a worse service.

Definitely. I guess a terminal at Euston means an international connection to the line at St Pancras isn't impossible, but I can't see it ever happening. Now there's trains to Amsterdam and talk of them to Berlin, opening that up to Birmingham and other parts of the UK would make sense.

Stratford got a mention. If that had been selected it potentially would have included a direct link with HS1 and through trains to/from Europe.

I agree that that's ONE of the points of HSR in the UK. It's not the WHOLE point though. The main points are to 1) speed up journeys 2) separate fast and slow services so that you make more efficient use of tracks and thus increase capacity.

A connection between HS2-HS1 was planned but got cut (for dumb reasons). It would have involved connecting the 2 tunnels north of Euston and St Pancras either with a tunnel or using the line through Primrose Hill Station. Stratford International would have acted as the London station.

It would still need to call somewhere in central London though before Stratford, at least if you want passengers to use it. And Euston is really pretty close to St Pancras for onward travel using Eurostar. No one is going to complain about Euston being ripped up since they already ruined it in the 60s.

Thameslink at Stratford?

@@f.g.9466 Thameslink 2, see TfL

I think to takes pressure off of the wcml the terminus should be a central London one because travelling out of central London would as to commuting time unless the hs2 went through central London.

HS2 is a High Speed Line to improve travel on the Southern half of the existing WCML not a go any where line and will only be operated by Avanti West Coast Trains, plus London Marelabone would not have the space for HS2 services

The best value for money was the Leeds - Birmingham section. Next best was the Manchester - Birmingham. Old Oak - Birmingham is the worst value. Should indeed have been north to south.

I also get the point. Raising property prices in Birmingham to pad MPs investments. HS2 to Birmingham just makes a Birmingham London commute viable where it maybe wasn’t before without providing any value to the rest of the country. The west coast, east coast and midlands mainlines will outpace it from cities further north as they’re more direct and so it now purely serves Birmingham.

@@lukestevens8735 Nice and cheap to build in the north - the Leeds to Birmingham route is an atrocious 2 hours at the moment, takes the same amount of time to get to London as it does to Birmingham :)

Maybe, but they've already done a lot of tunneling, so it was probably hard to back out of. Cutting the northern section allowed the Conservatives to screw over the next government as well as the country, so I can imagine it felt very appealing!

They definitely should've done the North of Birmingham part 1st

I know less about the area, but it is not so well connected as the other termini, being served only by the Bakerloo Line.

It's ok - only a very few of us will have noticed 😉

maybe he meant "... for high speed Won !" or maybe it is a subtle Thunderbirds reference. Or maybe it was too near midnight and the PM to AM thing.

At the Birmingham end - and it is an end - there will be no onward services to other parts of the West Midlands without a walk. For people like me with a medium speed direct service via New Street to Euston I don’t see any attraction in using Curzon Street.

@@petergilbert72 There will be some onward travel options, such as the tram extension, busses or trains from Moor Street, but nowhere near as good as New Street, especially on the rail front. I can certainly see people who want to go in the Selly Oak or Wolverhampton direction being a bit peeved.

@@petergilbert72 A bit more research and I see the tram does go to Wolverhampton, but I suppose it won't be as fast for people who want to go to the far end of the journey. Also no idea about trains direct between Wolverhampton and London after HS2. I assume there must be some now, and they should keep them, but will they? I think Coventry is the place that could lose out most, because HS2 won't stop there, but they'll probably cut Coventry to London express trains down.

The entrance to the new Curzon Street Station and New Street Station is a 9-minute walk. Not exactly a marathon.

@@PLuMUK54 When everywhere is talking about connectivity and making public transport as easy as possible creating a terminus station with an obligatory change of train seems short sighted. Perhaps Curzon Street will require some tunnelling to provide longer distance one train journeys like Brussels or Stuttgart. A single point to point line seems like something from the very first railways.

Last thing anyone wants is zombie Yerkes walking around a station...

Yes, don't give him ideas lol

turn it into arrrr ride like arrrr Pirates of the Caribbean.

Arrrh Jim lad!

That same North London Line that is now the Overground, providing a frequent metro service plus goods trains, and would have no spare capacity?

Why would people from the Midlands and the North want their train services on HS2 to London to terminate at Stratford for gods sake

You clearly haven't been at Kings Cross in the small hours, or you would have experienced something close to what you describe.

Better late than never, even though it took me by surprise

For what logical reason would HS2 a line, the operater being Avanti West Coast trains need to run to France

Marelabone does not need to wait for trains, it is full to capacity with train services with Chiltern Train Services to the Chiltern Area of Oxfordshire and Birmingham

@stickynorth You certainly know what it's all aboot eh? 😂😂😂

They probably did a thorough investigation on all (even obvious non-starters just to add cost). But it also flies in the face of those who have said "why didn't they do xxx ", stating the most obvious but fundamentally flawed ideas.