Hi Dave, I think the folks talking about molding the slug outside the shell are on to something. When you layer the wax, you are trying to get two different densities of material to "weld" together, since the wax going in is at a different temperature than the wax that is already there. That never creates a strong bond with any material. I think you may experience better results if you use a pipe to mold the slug and are able to heat the whole thing up to get the wax melted throughout.
Whenever I have made wax slugs I cut the top off and dump the shot out into a pain. I then melt wax in with the shot and pour it back in using the origional wade. I have been very successful with this.
Dave I like the way you are thinking out of the box. It makes us all a little more creative. I think If I were to want to shoot a slug type round, I would just go ahead and load up a round ball. It just turns the H&R into a smooth bore, which was very common in the longhunter days.
Great video once again Dave. Love this series you've got going, keep em coming brother. You are the man when it comes to this "wilderness" training. Thanks for the ideas. God bless.
Dave. I appreciate how even though you're probably making plenty of money from DS, and the pathfinder school has to be blowing up, you're still practical about your targets.
I saw one video where they did a wax load and many results where the same as yours, but then they mixed the shot with the wax first and loaded the shell. The result was different, this time it worked more like a slug.
Iam enjoying these videos and this series as a whole. Thank you for all that you share with us Dave! Always going to be Debby Downers out there. Keep up the good work and thanks again!!!
I really lika how you show failures, that's how one really learn. Smaller pellets, some form of container for them and poured wax instead of dripping will improve results. Paraffin wax or some other hard glue will also help.
This is what I like about Dave. He goes ahead and shows us what happened whether it worked out perfectly or not. Either way it is accurate information that will help you in the end.
The H&R 12ga, such a classic piece of growing up in the south. I have one that was a christmas present when I was 13 from my Pops. I love that 12ga as much now as I did the day I got it. From skeet to rabbits it has never let me down. I will strap it to my pack long before I would my browning. The H&R is just plain tough enough to take what you throw at it. Thanks for showing the Long hunter ways.
I did some experimenting with wax loads a long time ago, I found that modeling wax which is less brittle when cold works best and heating the shot in with the wax works best making a more solid projectile.
I have had quite a bit of success taking smaller shot (#4, #6) opening up the shell and "cooking" the shot with the beeswax (parafin also worked) and then spooning the shot on top of the wadding. Then pouring more beeswax on top to seal it. Modified choke definitely. This worked on my single shot 12ga (22" barrel), my Rem 870 (as a breach load). Very little separation (if any) to the target. As always AWESOME videos!!! Thank you for all you do.
The Lee Classic Loader is a great option for the 12ga. It's light weight, compact and allows for many different types of loads. Also, another great thing about the H&R single shot is their barrel accessory program. For $55 you can get a new 12ga barrel from 22 to 32 inches and with different chokes. Some can even be fitted with barrels in rifle orpistol cartriges.
Great video. I remember years back seeing an article, maybe it was in field and stream, about some shot getting glued together on the assembly line at a factory and getting mixed with good rounds and surprising people when their game exploded so it must be possible. Some waxes are harder than others. Seems like you can find litter even in the deepest woods- melted plastic perhaps? The natives used to make a fiber reinforced epoxy out of pine sap, ground charcoal, buffalo chip, etc...
Dave, The steel BB's are bouncing in the steel barrel. As they go down the barrel the energy transfers between the bb's side to side,and back and forth. This breaks up the wax slug. Plus the weight different between the wax and the steel bb's make them move at different speeds.
Dave - Great Video. On the wax slug I once told to make this work you needed extra wadding and quit a bit of extra buffer otherwise the slug will blow apart. Additionally he said the wax/ball slug should be made in a pouch in the shell for added buffering.. like a modern plastic wadding and that you should have about 1/8" of bees wax or a couple cardboard patches before building the shot/wax slug. Have not tried it but might be worth a shot.
Absolutely loving this series of videos Dave! One thing I was thinking about was trying a .50 cal. round ball in the shot gun shell using patching material as a sort of sabot. Just an Idea.
Dave, it seems the wax is adhering to the plastic wall of the shell and when the propellent fires it tears the bundle apart. If you get the wax to a soft state and mix the BB's in and mold it like putty in your hand then allow it to harden I think it'll hold together. Make it less of a snug fit in the shell with a little wadding on top then a wax plug.
Hey Dave a another good way is just take a shot shell n your knife and just cut two half circles three the shell case where the ends barely meet so when it goes off it fires the shot the wad and the end of the shell case out in one package works pretty well for improvised slug hope this makes sense keep it up your a genius god bless n god speed
For the best of both worlds mossberg makes a 20 inch " Security Vent Rib " barrel for the 5 shot 500 series 12ga pump shotgun that comes with the standard assortment of 3 chokes.
We measure the amount of shot and then put it in the wax and heat it up and then spoon or pour the shot and wax in the shell and it bonds together great one solid mass of lead and wax. Pour wax over the pellets was not recommend by the old timers that showed us as the wax does not reach the bottom and you get flyers and a less solid slug. We just cook it all in an old soup can and fill up the shells. :) Love this Longhunter stuff keep it up! Dave your our hero....don't tell Cody....lol
dave i did experaments with a trade gun..i found if you took a dowel slightly under bore size..wrapped heavy paper( like grocery bag) X2 wraps around it and made a shot cup...slide into your shell...pour in shot and then seal top with wax it will fly like you want..the problem with the way slug is the shot of firing breaks apart back of slug and thus it fails,,the heavy paper cup will prevent this..plus on impact..boom..like shooting point blank..safe journeys
Thank You for doing this video it answered alot of questions I had on wax slugs the only way besides the way you made the wax slug was mealting birdshot pellets and wax togather in a can or container then pouring or spooning it into a rd but they also where useing rds w/ the shotcup still in it
Dave, i guess the person who made the statement about the dimes, also would say when pirates shuved what ever they could find on board in a cannon and fired it, it did not kill anybody. good video brother
I agree with the first comment, when i saw you dripping it I was thinking you needed an old lead melting spoon or small melting cup and pour it in all at once, just make sure you have enough wadding and hold it away from your face LOL, I love your videos Dave you have the best channel on You Tube, keep em coming, I hope to be in your January class, see you soon!
I have an old remington model 11 shotgun with a "poly choke" adjustable choke on it,just twist it in or out goes from full to improved choke. I am going to cut off an H&R single shot at 20 inches and have one put on it.You can still buy them on Gun Broker for about $30-$40.
I've made a few wax slugs, what I did was measure my shot , put the shot and wax in a small tin and then heated up the tin containing the wax and shot with a candle until the wax melted. I then used a spoon to make sure I got all the shot while pouring the mix into the shotgun shell, after all the shot was in the shell I poured some of the remaining wax until the shell was just about full. Wax slugs made this was will stay together and penetrated over 2" of marine grade plywood, leaving almost a 3" hole upon exiting the plywood. Plywood thickness was made using multiple 5/8" pieces glued and screwed together alternating the grain of each piece.
Cutting off the barrel you loose some velocity,after the shot leaves the barrel it starts loosing velocity without the powder burning behind it.Shot gun shell loads before plastic wads had wax coated cork or cardboard wads or heavy felt.The wad helps keep the shot from being flattened when fired causing it to fly out of the pattern.
@VaperSteve1975 I have played around with wax in trying to make a wilderness candle. You can stuff a paper tube full of sawdust and pour really hot wax into it and after it cools it will be a rock solid mass with the sawdust completely saturated. But I found that you have to seal the bottom by pouring a bit of wax in first and letting it cool, or otherwise the wax will start to seep out around the bottom edges (unless it is a metal container and not paper tube with cardboard taped to bottom).
Hey Dave I love your videos I cant get enough of them! but I would like to suggest that you should make the ballistics gel like the stuff they use on mythbusters. it just would make it a bit easier to see how deep the shot is and you can clearly see where it impacts.
dave, simple solution that saves your bic and makes them a solid piece as well. take one of your glue/tallow cans and melt some wax with the shot already in the container, then spoon the wax covered shot out of the container into the shotgun shell. this ensures that your slug is one solid piece of wax if done fast enough, and it allows you to "mass produce" slugs if need be.
Great Vids Dave, really shows the versatility of a mc shotgun. How about flechettes next Dave. My favorite is junk wire improvised loads. Nasty self-defense load.
There is too much heat and pressure within the barrel, that it is more likely melting the wax instinaneously. As a 3rd year engineering student, looking at the properties of bees wax you will find it has a low melting point. You could try a 2 part expoxy or maybe 2 part JB Weld, knead the 2 parts together and form the slug.
02:16 almost had the whole Tommy Lee Jones monologue from The Fugitive in there. "...hard-target search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in that area" (The Fugitive Movie) Dave - I'm lovin' these longhunter series vid's. Keep 'em comin' brother. Semper Fi.
@disillusions The dimensions of wilderness candle I have made are with a paper tube about 8" long and a 3" ID (inside diameter). It burns like a big tiki torch for several hours. I was pretty impressed that all that sawdust packed into that tube became completely saturated with wax and basically cooled to form a big brown candle. I think pouring hot wax into a shell like that will work better to fuse the shot together, but again, I would try to seal the patch with a tad bit of wax first.
i agree in are area blackpowder is a very common way to hunt in are area...it would be very easy to find blackpowder supplies after a natreal disaster!
It's because the wax isn't rifled.... And probably completely breaking up on the exit of the barrel. The wax then ways the shot down an jacks with the flight pattern of the shot... Great video! Very informative.
This is the law for sawed off shotgun in IN. Doing some research, it does not matter if you do it yourself or not. IC 35-47-1-10 "Sawed-off shotgun" Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means: (1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and (2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration,modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
You might want to experiment with sealing wax (like they sell in stationary stores). It has a wick that you light so you won't run your lighter out and the wax is much harder than paraffin. What I personally wonder about is using a 1 oz fishing sinker embedded in wax. The wax would become a sabot that would provide a seal in the barrel.
you should come to big sur, california to see thick country. the manzanita and chaparral grow extremely thick. so thick that crawling on you stomach doesn't work always work, but i still stick with my 34" barrel kentucky rifle. awesome video, im going to get myself one of these shotguns now.
Hey hers a load for ya dave..take large BB' size shot for fishing..the kind ya crimp on..clamp onto steel fishing leader..small space between each..coil into 12 ga shell..acks like chain shot out of a cannon..i watched my father use it on big wold boars..slices in..you can slide you hand in the hole!..looks lieka chain saw plunged straight iin..great for a quick bleedout on big mean game
I believe the powder burn is melting the wax. If you put a dime in, then the BBs, then wax, the dime will prevent the power burn from melting the wax. We do the same when reloading lead bullets in revolver and rifles. Nice try though. Thanks
Hey Dave, I am sure you probably know this already but if your objective is to make a slug type projectile and not necessarily saving the shell, you can make a "cut shell" and it works a whole lot better.
I have a H&R .233, and I was looking on their website at the extra barrels... they have 12 ga barrels ranging from 30, 26 and down to 22 inches... the 22 inch with a modified choke is like 55 dollars plus shipping... I think I just might go for that...
well Dave heard your comment about what people were saying about the dime load if you really want to show how well it works buy a whole shoulder and shoot it that is a good chuck of meat and what you would normally be shooting at on the game you are after this is what I do when working up some kind of new load. good luck really enjoy your videos
Great Informational video.. Yes, I think if you could melt the wax and mix in the shot it might work better.. How about using a soft to med melted plastic to hold the shot together?
@andrewsheldonreeves also the ability of rapid follow up shots on a large animal and no recoil does lend an advantage. But I do agree the 12 gauge is a great option if you want to point and shoot. However if you want to shoot a bird out of the top of the tree at 60 yards I'd reach for my .22 and pull the trigger 3 or 4 times in very rapid fire to bring a large bird down.
Dave, this was a very interesting video. I especially appreciated the interesting information on the long gun vs canoe guns at the beginning. I was going to ask if a person open a factory made birdshot shell (7 ½ or 8) and wax it to make a field made slug but I guess it’s a mute point now? And I assume we’re still using High Brass shells for all these various loads?
@VaperSteve1975 This would likely work better in fusing the load together, but it would be best to drip a little wax (at the lower temp) on top of the patch and let that set up before putting the shot in and then pouring the hot molten wax in. This could help prevent molten wax from seeping past the patch and into the powder.
I saw someone shoot an arrow out of a reduced charge .410 shotgun on the Discovery channel. You being the archery and shotgun enthusiast will have a hard time resisting that one. ....be safe Dave
great vid Dave. I love the single shot. Never thought about muzzle loading. Awesome. How many times can you reload a shell before it stretches out to much. When useing buckshot, How much powder would you use. Great job Dave. Keep up the videos.
i think i know what went wrong. you gotta use the bottom of a monster can or something to melt the wax with the shot in it then you pour that mix of melted wax and shot in the shell because if you just pour the was over the shot while its in the shell then the shot cools and hardens the wax be for it can get to the bottom
Maybe if you cut the end off of a modern shotgun shell and poured wax into that. With the modern shotcup, it may protect the wax slug better while exiting the barrel. I suspect your wax slug is breaking up when it gets squeezed out of the choke.
The only front loaders I want are my BP Revolvers. Aside from that, black powder cartridges are the way to go. But I'd take a Kentucky/Pennsylvania Long Rifle any day.
Dave, i am loving this series! Hey, whats your opinion on cylinder chokes? They have no tapering of the muzzle what so ever, therefore wouldn't cylinder bore/choke be the best and safest for 'improvised' rounds? For foster/rifled slugs its always perfered that you shoot them out of a cylinder bore/choke.
Hey brother. . . Ya might find some good, pure clay -- and make small marble sized balls (or barrel shaped/bullet shaped) and fire them in/by the fire. Fired clay is pretty hard stuff -- then set the clay "slug" with your wax in the case. If the clay ball stayed together to target, it would do plenty of soft tissue damage on critters. You might try an ash binder, but I'd avoid sand because of it's abrasive qualities.
Maybe if you build a small fire and melt the wax in a metal cup then pour it instead of drip it it might create a better seal. It seems to me like small drips would solidify too fast and not bond to the shot too well. Either that or the force and heat of the powder is melting/breaking the wax apart before it leaves the barrel. Either way good entertaining video, i like this series.
just wonderin, i had an idea for a slug that would be readily available, use a steel bolt, cause if you could get to a junk yard there are plenty that would fit snug in a 12 gauge shell
