Lore Drift 

i personally don't think its a cure i think its just delaying the inevitable feralification

ah yes my daily dose of tim cain in the morning

The moment in Fallout 2 when you get the car was so AMAZING! Just cruising over the map, your buddies around and a trunk full of weapons and supplies. No one could stop us!

"Notice I never did a personal attack?" This is why you're the GOAT, Tim.

I used fallout 1 and ur design principles for world building for a presentation at school and got a 100. Thanks Tim Cain!!!

Hi Tim. It's us, everyone.

My mother always told me we can disagree, but we don't need to be disagreeable doing it.

Lore... Lore never changes. (Except it constantly changes)

One of my favourite examples of drastically changing lore for the right reasons is the Battlestar Galactica reboot because almost every single change and new creative decision was an improvement over the original.

Hey Tim, can you make a video of your top 10 books, I read A Canticle for Leibowitz (since you mentioned it inspiring the brotherhood) and it got me into reading and it was one of the best things I have ever experienced.

That scene with Thaddeus taking that drug. At first I thought it was something mixed with Radium and it was going to turn him into a ghoul but then I thought, Ghouls dont regenerate like that and in the same show The Ghoul had to stitch his finger back on. I think he drank FEV or at least some kind of variation of it. I got the impression that he was no longer human anymore after drinking it. The regeneration and radiation resistance but also surviving that crossbow bolt to the neck is what makes me think that way.

This is just a theory but it could be that the anti-feral drug is for ghouls that are starting to go feral. Like, they could go a bit or a while without it depending on the individual, but when they start going feral, that’s when they need to get the drug (if they can even find it, I mean look what cooper had to do to get 60 vials of the stuff). Regardless, I’d love to see how the show elaborates more on it in the second season

I've been binging these videos. So well spoken and full of genius

You are the Santa of RU-vid - giving us all awesome presents almost daily!

"I think they need a nap" new touch grass, "take a nap"

Hi Tim, it's not just fallout 3 or 4 where ghouls don't need water - there are two seperate cases in Fallout 2 of a ghoul being alive for years in a coffin

That arnold impression was on point, hahah 😄 i liked your word on Lore Drift.

Can we appreciate the irony that the game mimics reality in that you never get to see the car driving around because of engine limitations? ^- ^

Little Billy in the refrigerator didn’t need food or water for 200 years, and he never aged 😂

I just found you and your channel yesterday, and man, I'm so glad I did. I'm a huge fan of Fallout, and watching your videos (about Fallout and other stuff) warms my heart. You have such an awesome, down-to-earth way of sharing your thoughts. I love how you explain lore drift and why it is inevitable/okay. I can't wait to watch more!

Honestly, I just think the Ghoul drug was radaway. We see it hooked up to Coop when he's in the grave, and it makes sense to me that if feralisation can be caused by continued exposure to radiation, Radaway would be able to stave it off.

Very well said. Criticisms - ESPECIALLY online - shouldn't be an attack. Lore drift is a good phrase for this too, it might be a bit destructive and discombobulating but its natural and ultimately inevitable. Also I'm personally still holding out hope that the regeneration serum was FEV or some offshoot.

I'm so glad I found your channel like a year ago. Been loving these "talks" we all need a guide in this world. ❤

I stumbled across your channel when you spoke about the Fallout TV show and have found your stories + commentary excellent. Thanks!

I really like how down to earth you are with everything.

Lore Drift is 100% exactly like Tokyo Drift, and I'm glad you made that analogy.

Found your channel a few weeks back and have been binging on your videos. Awesome to hear these stories straight from you.

I cant tell you how much I enjoy listening to you! I didnt even care that much about Fallout or game design before I got recommended your channel but it's really interesting listening to you talk. Very calming too. Big ups

Lore. Lore never changes.

I read “love drift” and clicked wondering if Tim was alright

Great video as always Tim!!! Your wisdom knows no bounds!!

This was perfect, and excellent in your descriptions. Thank you.

Loving the popsicle shirt, Tim!

One of my favorite things to come out of the TV show is discovering this channel

This was a super interesting video, it's great to hear your thoughts on everything regarding those other series, the concept itself, and also are done much deserved dunking on people who really do probably need to go take a nap Thanks Tim

Love these, Tim. Keep em coming!

Hope you read this Tim: from a mid-40's gamer for whom og Fallout already seemed old when I played it (90's-2000's gamers & devs know what I'm talking about here) and was still the coolest game I've ever played-you're a scholar, gentleman and a Boss (if those Fallout premier shots are anything to go by), thanks for being the creator of one of the most subversive and fun games of my young adult life but also for being an open-eyed and positive influence in a modern era of increasing clannishness. You rock! \m/

The way I see it, the show lore is event canon but not mechanically canon. Film/TV often requires different storytelling tools from games, so I'm not going to be mad when an adaptation from one medium to another swaps in some of the storytelling tools of the new medium, even if it may *technically* result in different lore, because if the whole franchise had always been a show, the lore would also have been different. There's still no lore to explain how Stimpaks work, but nobody care because we understand the real purpose is to make the game easier to play/let the show do cartoony violence and let the characters survive anyway. Giving ghouls an anti-feral serum is an efficient way to show the audience that there's more downsides to being a ghoul than just losing a nose, it gives Cooper a weakness when he's otherwise been shown to be very in control of himself in every situation he's been in; it also makes it understandable why Lucy would think it was good to release Martha but then have to kill her (an important character development for Lucy). TV shows can't spend the time to explain things that games can or else it would drag and potentially better scenes or characterization would get a short shrift.

Really enjoying & appreciating your videos, Tim, thank you! I think the concept you’re echoing here is genetic drift, defined approximately as “the change in trait frequency, in a population, over time.” Definitely feels analogous!

Thx Tim! I enjoyed the discussion about lore drift. I appreciate when the drift is tied back into source material (like the introduction of some kind of virus, environment adaptation, really any narrative development) when it’s tied back into source material the drift seems to retain a little more of it’s original DNA.

Wow! With your Conan example I realize just how much of my favorite media has lore drift. Since the show dropped this was the first i'd heard the term and while i understood it, i couldn't directly tie it to anything! Thank you as always!

“The reverend mother Helena… goyim? Mohiam? Idk Helena Bonham Carter lol. Reverend mother Helena!” This whole bit had me in stitches , thanks Tim. Btw, her name is Gaius Helen Mohiam, so close enough.

That "Book version and movie version" seems like a really good mentality to have, I'll try to use it going forward, thanks!

Love your videos Tim! Keep them coming!

Lore Drift sounds like the name of a video game about a multi-timeline adventure in a fantasy setting

the duality of an adaptation "do you bend the lore to make sense of a story OR mold a story to fit an established lore!"

Tim... I can't express the immense appreciation I have for you and videos like this.

Tim, thank you for explaining these concepts. Hopefully that helps part of the community recalibrate their expectations to be more realistic. Keep up the great work!

I don't understand why I'm not seeing people mention that this special ghoul drug could just be something new. It's been several years since the earlier games, and some ghouls have been alive quite a while. Maybe some of them finally worked out a method to maintain their humanity. New things are invented between media installments all the time.

I'm sure you've played a lot of different games but at least professionally, you have an obvious affinity for the RPG. Are there any other genres that interest you, that you'd maybe like to dip your toes in for a one-off experimental project if you had the time? Or, more controversially, are there any genres that you find it difficult to understand the appeal of?

Best thing to listen to at work. You rock Tim

It's a great day when Uncle Tim uploads, love these vids

Hey Tim, I think something I am curious about that I haven't really seen anyone else discuss is how the "Master" would effect Vault 33 from the show. To my understanding of Fallout 1 the Master prioritized vault-dwellers to become super mutants and he would have been close by to Vault 33. I don't know if a question like this warrants a whole video but from my own understanding if this is the case then it is something I would like to see more people discuss and see different perspectives on.

I'm interested to learn what you think about them moving Shady Sands so close to LA To me this is the biggest problem so far. I even like the idea of this medicine to delay the moment ghouls become feral.

Hi from the russian fan sector.)) I just viewed series to the end and absolutely agree Timothy's point. In light language, a very good series! Visuals, actor's playing, camera, dramatic act, soundtrack. Fan bros, look at picture in whole view: it is a great work, that distribute our loving GameWorld to the RealWorld! With love and peace, Ilia "uncle Eli" Karnauhov.)

Tim hit 100k subs just a week or two ago and he’s already at 118k! Amazing! Thanks for putting in the effort to make these videos, keep ‘em coming!

I always liked how old Star Trek had a new ship/crew and even time for each session, kind of helps to super remove each new show from the old one. I like the idea of keeping the 'world' but using new characters, small details can change as long as you keep the spirt. I think you hit a lot more problems if you want to keep the same 'hero' or characters, the more separation you have the more room you have to do new things & not conflict with old lore.

Concerning the ghoul, I'm mostly curious if they have faster regen with the small radiation in the air or something. Fallout (post 3) has shown that ghouls do regen in high levels of radiation. Maybe the show did a variant of that?

Really well thought out, thank you for the video!

This was a nice video, thank you, Tim!

Tim, these thumbsnails are drifting closer and closer to the "one does not simply walk into Mordor" meme by the day. 😄

Mr cain I just wanna say your advice here got me thinking. I have been a bit immature and I'm going to fix that. thank you.

I’ve been a fan of your work for like a decade at this point, and I just found out recently about your channel. I’ve learned so much about what makes coding interesting. I’m only learning simple R-based scripts and code for statistics, but some of the way you approach the topics helps me reframe how I look at coding. It’s not as daunting as it used to be. Once I get R handled, I plan on going into Python and C# to build a toolkit for marketability

I've never seen Tim so fired up. I love it! :)

When I was young I was really mad when lore drift happened. Then I stopped being mad because I realized that lore drift is not just a recent thing, its been happening since forever and some of my favorite pieces of work are not actually original but an iteration on something created earlier. As it turned out sometimes I like a new iteration and sometimes I don't, nothing to be mad about. And definitely nothing is "ruined" by any kind of new iteration.

When it comes to ghouls needing food and water, i always just assumed they do need it, but not as much or as often. The only thing that breaks this lore (as far as I know) is "Kid in a Fridge," which I throw into the camp of wacky, not lore consistent, random encounters in Fallout 2.

why does this guy always put me in a good mood?

That shirt is awesome Tim. That side rant at 8 minutes is spot on too, with a perfect example 😄

I think the part of ghouls not needing water nor food isn't canon, or at least it isn't anymore, if I remember correctly one of the writers of Fo4 explain that the sidequest of the ghoul kid was more of a joke quest, cause there's more evidence in those game that ghouls need to eat and drink water, I guess the current canon is that they´re more resilience than humans.

I think Dune and Conan are a bit different to lore changes in Fallout because the movies are completely separate entities to the books, whereas the Fallout series takes place in the same world and whatever lore changes happen in it will likely become canon in the game world too.

Very Professional statement, Sir. Thank you to be a Senpai by flashing a beacon of light to help us find our guidance. Wished my Professors from my college where atlast this motivatet to explain (themselves) and teach/ show a different perspektive of the world at the same time.

Love the videos, they are becoming a lunchtime tradition, I don't know why lol

Early video. Nice! 1:18 Tokyo Drift: an ok movie with a great refreshing setting imo!

War... war never changes but lore does

I found this channel in my recommendations a few months ago, and it's been an absolute treasure trove. I'm not even halfway through the back catalog but everything's been pretty great so far. I don't usually like RU-vid's algorithm, but when it hits, it really hits. I used to be pretty anal about "lore breaking" in the past, but frankly after the show's announcement I stopped caring so much, seeing how some people get so aggressive about it. To me at least, lore drift is only really an issue if it invalidates/breaks older stories. Otherwise it doesn't really bother me much. You already brought up the Necropolis plot with the water pump in the video, which is one of the instances where I think lore drift really broke something, since obviously that plot doesn't work if ghouls don't need water. An instance of lore drift that I don't think breaks anything is Jet being pre-war as of Fallout 4. It does change the context of the plot with Myron and the Mordino family in Fallout 2, but it doesn't necessarily break it - Myron is already a complete egotistical scumbag, lying about inventing Jet is totally in-character for him. Then there are really minor instances of lore drift which either don't affect much at all, or are so easily resolvable it's not even an issue. Power Armor requiring fusion cores as of Fallout 4(can't these co-exist with the TX-28 microfusion packs mentioned in the first Fallout? Surely there are multiple power sources a suit could run off of?) and T-60 power armor being better than T-51(Fallout 76 of all games resolved this by just changing their stats so they're sidegrades to each other. Not a big deal whatsoever) Despite this, I've still seen a ton of people get extremely angry over these two changes in particular, despite them being really minor and not breaking any existing plots. I have a whole list of problems with the way Bethesda handles the series, but some of y'all need to chill.

Great topic/video and awesome shirt Tim!

Lore drift can be absolutely bad. An example is the 'Kid in a Fridge' quest in Fallout 4. A kid is locked in a fridge for 200 years without food or water to last and turns into a ghoul but doesn't die? The premise is bad, the change is bad, it upends major plot points (the Necropolis water pump) & worldbuilding, for absolutely no benefit If Ghouls don't need food or water and live off radiation why can't I recruit only Ghouls to my settlement and not have to grow food & get water? why are the ghouls in FO3 drinking the FEV poisoned water if they don't need it?

I did let out a sigh when all the entrances to the vaults were sticking out in the open. They were fairly hidden and that helped them not get discovered by the Master

One of the only lore drifts I noticed in the show was there weren't any glitches and bugs like the game.

Also interested in where the show goes thanks for the video and your insight Tim always appreciated

First time I've ever seen a video say "Posted Seconds ago"

Im of the mind set that lore should be respected but is not sacrosanct. We have people in the current day and age debate real life lore everyday, the idea that game lore is inviolable is crazy. There is a line somewhere between what changes are okay and whats maybe too far and its hard to determine where that is. A change isn't always a bad thing.

Thank you for your work and attempting to be a voice of reason.

Favorite channel now, love ya tim

I honestly think some Lore Changes have been quite good. Yes, even from Bethesda. I liked the Power Armor Generator Changes because it makes much more sense for an America desperate and inefficient in resources and power. Another change that I liked was that the Enclave was a Pre-War Secret Society, and their post-war Scorch Plague Bioweapon. All super cool.

My new head canon is that Prevagen prevents ghouls from going feral

So Tim is salty as well for that kid in the fridge. We feel you, Tim.

My interpretation of what you said previously in your video regarding the TV series has allowed me to enjoy all Fallout equally, and that is the idea of misinformation and inaccuracies in the world of Fallout itself. If "History is written by the victors" and warring factions being a huge theme in Fallout, it makes sense to believe that everyone is trying to write history "their way". I personally hope these smaller lore drifts continue to happen, as it makes the world feel more alive than it already was. As always, thanks for your videos Tim. You're an amazing guy! ☢♥

I always think about lore as just another thing that serves the story you’re trying to tell, and for me, story is king. In the fallout TV show, adding that ghouls need a drug to stay non-feral added a layer of vulnerability to the Ghoul which was essential for the reversal of power between Lucy and the Ghoul which was needed to setup Lucy’s “I may look like you, but I’ll never be like you” moment which was such a perfect crystallization of her character. Obviously there’s a limit to how much you can tweak without making the audience think that there are no consequences for things anymore (e.g. the emperor still being alive in the new Star Wars movies) but if a tweak to the lore can help provide strong character moments or better highlight a theme, then I’m all for giving new writers the power to change things. Love these videos by the way, Tim. Thanks for entertaining me while I eat my breakfast every day.

Outstanding Arnold impression! I’m in tears hahahaha

I really enjoyed your wise words about lore drift, which I think lore is like a living organism: it keeps evolving over time until it becomes extinct. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and nicely illustrating with three major lores.

They really crossed a line for me when they gave Conan a talk show.

I just wished Bethesda didn't do California again. They have the rest of the country to focus on but they really need the BoS to market towards casuals. Like what's it like in Florida, Texas, the Great Lakes area?

We do see Cooper Howard eating and drinking water in the show, so I guess that the TV show went back to the earlier lore about Ghouls needing food and water.

Love your content, Mr Cain. I have an immense amount of respect for you and this video just reinforces that respect. I know that some corners of the internet won’t take your message here to heart but I hope you reached someone.

Love these videos

One of the core aspects of either expanding the lore or changing the lore is keeping to the themes of the story itself. One of the core things in Fallout that doesn't need to be explained is "who dropped the bomb" - it's not relevant, because the story isn't about blaming a single faction, it's the humanity itself that brought the world to the apocalypse. This applies to basically every lore change Bethesda brought - it's short-sighted, it doesn't go with the themes of the game, it feels like it just wasn't thought through because someone said "that sounds cool, lets put a ghoul in a fridge" and just went with it. Other things, on the other hand, absolutely benefit from being explained. If you want to learn about the horror of the Vaults or what unethical things a company was up to before the war, you can - that builds the themes of the game. Just compare the Wikia entries for "the Fog" from Far Harbor and "the Cloud" from Dead Money. The Cloud is painfully explained in detail, the Fog is just like "oh weird radiation makes people go crazy".

That Snake oil salesman reminded me of Myron, at least aesthetically. My head canon is, that he's a descendant of Myron. I think it's fun for lore to change or evolve, which could be a better word. As long as it's fun and doesn't create any glaring contradictions, lore can change. 😊

I didn’t mind the ghoul stuff, i honestly think it’s a cool addition, i just can’t wrap my head around the thinking of having shady sands fall before the events of new vegas

Also hearing you talk about Conan opened my eyes to the differences between book Conan and movie Conan, sounds like book Conan was way more bad ass.. which also explains how inspirational the book was for Kentaro Miura making Berserk.. from you just talking about how Conan doesnt understand slavery I can immediately see the seedlings of Guts. Thank you for sharing :)