Once more unto the lore! Today I talk of the small, forgotten folk, the Hobbits. Music was created and provided by Adrian von Ziegler: adrianvonziegler.bandcamp.com/
the shire is heavily based on the area around sarehole mill, hall green in birmingham where tolkien lived as a child not oxfordshire. Before the creation of the west midlands in the 70s this was pretty much on the worcestershire/ warwickshire border.
Actually, the spirits of Men do go to the Halls of Mandos, but only for a brief time. From there their spirits depart to a place that not even the Valar know, with the exception of Mandos himself...and he is forbidden to speak of it to anyone else. Clearly, since it's called the Gift of Men, they're not just sent out to the Void. So, if not to the Void and not remaining in the Earthly realm, the only real option left is Eru's realm. So, death is the Gift of Men, because unlike every other creature in existence (including the Valar), they are able to experience life on Earth, but they are not bound by it. Upon their deaths, their spirits travel to Eru's realm to live with their creator. As for the Valar, they were told that if they chose to descend to the Earthly realm that they would be bound to it, unable to return. Elves are eternal, but also bound to the Earth. So, while they can experience the wonder of Valinor, they can never experience the wonder of the realm on the Creator.
Caradhras is also known as Redhorn, so you were correct about it being the Redhorn Pass. If you're interested, Caradhras is Barazinbar in Khuzdul and the other two peaks of Khazad-dûm, or Mountains of Moria, are Celebdil (Zirakzigil or Silvertine) and Fanuidhol (Bundushathûr or Cloudyhead).
Ask any pipe smoker and they will tell you it's very relaxing. Totally different from cigarettes. Plus a pipe full of strong pipe tobacco can last up to an hour and the nicotine absorbs through the mouth and gums so it is slow acting. A ot of times I have to lay down after a strong pipe full. Tolkien would have been very familiar with this calming effect haha. I also notice that if you look into the pipe bowl after taking a few puffs you see a smoldering red ring surrounded by darkness. Whether this was the inspiration for the eye of Sauron I don't know, but maybe it was on a subconscious level.
+Arachîr Galudirithon I never got much into Tolkien, but you've inspired me to dust off some of my parents old books. These videos are really terrific, sir!
7 лет назад
Well thank you very much. :) I am glad to see more people take up the sword [books] of LOTR!
You overstate Hobbit isolationism a bit. Yes, on the whole, they certainly weren't all that eager to interact with other people. That being said, I'm sure there were Hobbits who actually enjoyed it. Within any group, there are always individuals who break the mold. Either way, they did engage in some trade with the outside world, with their most notable export being pipe weed. As for allowing visitors, Gandalf visited the Shire on a number of occasions. Also, I don't remember the Shirrifs being called when a group of wandering dwarves marched through the Shire, all the way to Bag End itself, and spent the night there. On the flip side, when the Hobbits showed up in Bree, it didn't seem to shock anyone. The innkeeper even pointed out specific rooms that would feel more comfortable to them. The way Mr. Butterbur spoke, it seemed pretty clear that they weren't his first Hobbit patrons by any stretch. Certainly outsiders weren't frequently wandering through the Shire, and if the numbers ever picked up the locals would probably consider it a nuisance. There's no mention of any ban on outsiders, however. Additionally, why most would seem to prefer to remain at home, clearly some did travel around a bit...at least within the region. If you want to say they're a bit insular, that's fair, but I wouldn't say that they were aggressively isolationist like the Japanese at certain points in history.
39:50 -- Just a slight correction: Bilbo and the other Ringbearers never go to Valinor proper. They get a nice retirement home at Tol Eressëa, the Lonely Isle, that marks the border between the Undying Lands and the mortal world. It contains the city of Avallónë, and is indeed meant to be the mythical isle of Avalon from the Arthurian myth. The sheer divine splendour of Aman proper would flat-out kill any mortal trying to spend a longer span of time there. And subsequently, the Ringbearers also don't receive eternal life, since that's not something that the Valar can bestow. The Undying Lands don't make anyone immortal, they're called Undying Lands just because immortals happen to live there. Of all the mortals of Middle-Earth only Tuor managed to turn from a human into an elf, and the way that happened was a pretty different case from the fates of the Ringbearers.
On sam's 13 children: my Grandmother (born 1910) had ten children and her eldest daughter had 12, you don't need fertility drugs you need a low infant mortality. It's only slightly marvelous as long as they all lived to adulthood.
Both my paternal grandfather and his father were youngest of twelve, and all of the former, at least, reached adulthood. The limit is not child mortality, but maternal mortality. Pre modern medecine, most women suffered serious (and ofyen fatal) complications because of the number of children they had. Changes in child mortality, combined with compulsury schooling, meant that the pressure to have lots of children faded away and maternity-related deaths (both peri-natall and as a result of long term internal damage and strains) were reduced to their current, historically extremely low, levels. In fact, I suspect that until recently, men had longer life expectances than women as a result of the high maternity related death-toll. And Hobbits do (as far as I remember) live longer than we do, so they may be able to "spread out" the births more than our ancestoras could, which would probably have helped too.
To be fair, he does say **probably** a strain of Nicotiana. But yeah, it is most likely, Tolkien was a lifelong smoker who loved it and probably just attributed a few mystical qualities to it in his books because he enjoyed it so much.
The creation of golf was also included in the Hobbit Video game back in the early 2000’s I remember it well because I played that game a lot as a kid. I was surprised to see in it in the movie and rather happy to see them make the joke.
Btw, very early in the fellowship of the ring, Sam is talking to others in the green dragon, and talks about his cousin seeing a huge walking tree, do you think that could be one of the ent wives? Seems likely to me.
These lore video’s are amazing! An incredible amount of history in every video! It’s sad we won’t get new episodes! At least we rewatch the crap out of the ones we have!
I am thoroughly enjoying these lore series, I am wondering if you will make a video on the specific ages, once you are finished with the topics you are planning to do. I am mildly interested in the war of wrath and the destruction of beleriand. thank you for the videos and keep up the good work
I believe you made a slight error at 39:52. When the Hobbits (and Gimli?) sail to Valinor, they are not bestowed with immortality. The land cannot remove the Gift of Illuvatar, and it is called The Undying Land because it is where The Undying reside. The Gift has been granted/lifted before (Luthien/Tuor), so it is possible that perhaps mortals that sailed West did live forever (maybe Bilbo's songs were so loved that he was allowed to continue writing for the Valar), it's more likely that they simply died of old age. Perhaps they were allowed to live until fully healed, and chose their time of death like Numenoreans.
It's been greatly debated over the years. Some say that the mortal hobbits die apon reaching the shores of Valinor. Some, that they go to sleep, to rest in the garden of Lorien, until the ending of the world. Others, that they are freed of the pain and burden of the ring, to live their remaining years in peace.
While it's true that The Hobbit was the first _published_ book of the Legendarium, it's totally incorrect to state that Hobbits were the thing that started everything. Tolkien began writing parts of the Silmarillion and started to develop his languages long before he even thought of the word 'hobbit'. If anything, the world was created to house his languages and his love for mythologies. What's more is that at first The Hobbit was not even part of the same world. It wasn't until years into the writing process of LotR that first LotR and after that The Hobbit were sucked into the same world as the Silmarillion. He tried to rewrite it much closer to LotR in the 60's, but quit after a few chapters because a friend told him it wasn't The Hobbit anymore (however, it was still much closer to the original than PJ's abominations ever were, so unlike he likes to claim, PJ did most definitely not made The Hobbit that Tolkien wanted). It should also noted that the Hobbits are absent from the Silmarillion, which really shows that Middle-Earth was not created for Hobbits.
The patronymic naming convention was also present in Sweden. That's probably where it came from. I think they did away with it in the 20th century. I have been working on a friend's genealogy, and it has been interesting dealing with changing surnames every generation. On the other hand, you know exactly who the father was supposed to be.
the gift of Mortality is the only way to return in the presence of Eru Eluvitar, and since he is the source of life what else could you desire after a lifetime of struggle but to be in the presence of the creator of everything.
Going back 80 to a 100 years ago. In my family there were people who had 12 to maybe 18 children. so it is not Unheard. maybe you never heard of it.. But it was pretty normal.
Arachir, I am writing this during the video, so I know not if you corrected yourself later, but the passes they crossed during the wandering days were Caradhras (Or something like that) and High Pass, north of Imladris, the same one Bilbo would crossed centuries later. The Stoors took the southern route and over Redhorn Pass and the Fallohides (or something like that) took the High Pass; I forgot of Hartfoot (or something like that) travel.
The only place I've seen Kuduk is in Middle Earth Role Playing by ICE. It's a great system but it might well not be canon. Great video by the way. I noticed you used some MERP pics.
My lore lust has been satisfied... For this week! Your lore video's are the closest thing to drugs that I'll ever lust after. Next week you should do a video about the various rings of power. I know you did talk about them in your Sauron video, but I don't really care. You reuse the same lore bits over and over in different video's and I wouldn't be bothered.
Fatty Bolger does appear in the Fellowship of the Ring film, he shakes hands with Bilbo at the party, Bilbo says to him "Fatty Bolger!". Also at the end of The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies, at the auction scene just before Bilbo comes to stop it, The Grubs sells one of Bilbo's chairs to Mrs. Bolger and tells her "Now Fatty has something to put his feet on!". In other words, he does appear in the films but very brief, much older than he is in the books (Fatty Bolger is actually around Frodo's or Sam, Marry and Pippin's age, since they're actually younger in the books compaired to the films where they are around the same age) and because of that are not direct friend of Frodo unlike the books. On a side note, in Fellowship Fatty Bolger is played by Fran Walsch's (wife of Peter Jackson and the one of the writers for The Middle-Earth films as well as King Kong, The Lovely Bones and other PJ films ever since Bad Taste) uncle, this is mentioned in the audio commentary, don't know the bloke's name though.
I come from a long line of the North American variety of hobbit. We live in the states of Washington, Oregon, and parts of Northern California on the west side of the Cascade Mountains. My family lives in small villages on the Olympic Peninsula, on the edges of the Temperate Rainforest. We migrated here just 3 generations ago from Middle Earth. Thank you for explaining the history of my folk.
+ Arachir Galudirithon the cover of Black Sabbaths first album is a photo of the mill with Ozzy standing in the woods in front of the mill. Comments were disabled for the vid on the Istari. I just wanted to put in ,that Gandalf ,Olorin went to the house of Nienna,where he learned of pity and patience from her. God, my friend Arachir,people need to start reading. The totally unselfish way that you do these video`s for others is to me,unbelievable. You are a generous and great teacher. I say to you again sir, you are the only man I know of ,that knows more Tolkien lore than myself!!! I therefore will refer to you as "Lord Arachir" from this day henceforth!
To anyone interested in literary analysis of Tolkien's works - check out Michael Drout's Modern Scholar recorded lecture 'Rings, Swords, and monsters: Exploring Fantasy Literature'.
What i know from hobbits is that it is to repressent the civil life, because tolkien was a soldier in the first world war and the Shire or happy little Hobbits is a metaphore for a peacefull life back home. So i guess thats why there isnt realy much information about it.
I'm sad you find Hobbits a bit boring and plain. I think they are wonderful and amazing. Mostly because I find them to be very human like. They seem to have nearly all our unpleasant bits of nature, yet manage to live in relative harmony and peace. There seems to be no murder, rape, child sexual assault, kidnapping ect ect. While I know they are a created race, they obviously manage their lives a thousand times better than us. How I wish we could be like them! Of course I'd rather be an elf, in fact I'd give my right arm to be an elf, sadly it's not a possibility! Thanks for your videos
There is a very small reason for Gimli to be allowed to enter Aman: three hair of Galadriel and they were gifted to him and the Valar could not refuse to enter to this hair because they were elvish.
Or maybe somehow Tolkien tried to combined the three other races in one simple and small race. Like a unique folk different from the rest , simple, pacific and lovers of the food, just like Tolkien himself and the southern english people that lived in the field. Just a theory.
swamidude I personally think they were tolkien's exact opposite to evil. Evil in LOTR has always sought to expand, control and destroy, whereas hobbits are isolationists with a live and let live attitude who have a love for all things that grow.
I think that pipeweed is 100% some form of nicotine, but that it _can_ have more intense effects than average, modern, _commercial_ tobacco. You see, there are other types of Nicotiana plants that can have wildly variable nicotine concentrations and other active chemicals. One of these varieties, N. rustica, is 3 - 9 times stronger than common tobacco while also having some other alkaloids and can induce a trance state and even hallucinations when it's smoked or steeped to make a tea. When used for inducing visions, it's usually called mapacho, and there's a ton of history and different native traditions and preparations from all over the Americas. But the big thing is: smoking this specific type of tobacco _CAN_ have effects that lean way more towards causing a "stoned" effect rather than the simple dopamine hit that common tobacco is known for. And that's just this one type of Nicotiana plant, there's lots of different plants that are related to it that aren't super well documented and probably at least a few more that are simply lost to time thanks to the plagues and subsequent colonization curteousy of European contact/ conquest that erased so many oral (and even written ones, in the case of the Mayans... thanks, _Spain.)_ histories and traditions. And that doesn't even get into the fact that these books are zupposed to be set _thousands_ of years in the past, which is a _long_ time in the world of crop cultivation. It would be impossible for a strain to remain unchanged over that length of time even if people _tried_ to preserve it exactly as it was over the millenia. So I like to believe that, yes, the Hobbits _are_ growing and smoking something that is closely related to tobacco... But it's a cousin of tobacco that's just a little bit "extra." It probably doesn't get you stoned like pot does, but I get the impression that it's doing something a little more significant than what you get from smoking any modern tobacco. The thing that tips me off is how Saruman comments about it affecting Gandalf's mind, which would be a really odd criticism to make about any kind of tobacco we're all used to. A cigarette can be called a lot of things, but significantly or even noticeably mind-altering ain't one of them. Also, Tolkien _probably_ knew about N. rustica, it's not a secret and never had been. With him being as big a fan of both pipe smoking and history as he was, I would honestly be shocked if he hadn't looked into the history of pipe smoking and tobacco, _especially_ because it's so prominently featured in his books! And I _wouldn't at all_ be surprised to find out that he had tried it at least once.
I find it hilarious that the shire could potentially be a country docile and peaceful because everyone is absolutely stoned out of their skulls, no wonder why they don't like change it requires them to use their heads xD
Kûd-dûkan, Kuduk, and Banakil are all real words.'Hobbit is an invention. In the Westron the word used, when this people was referred to at all, was banakil 'halfling'. But at this date the folk of the Shire and of Bree used the work kuduk, which was not found elsewhere. Meriadoc, however, actually records that the King of Rohan used the word kûd-dûkan, 'hole-dweller'.'- The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F, 'On Translation'
The Red Horn Pass and Caradhras are the same. It's the same mountain whose spirit thwarts The Fellowship as they tries to pass it. In the film, It's not obvious but according to the writer Phillipa Boyens, Saurman's spell is for waking up the spirit of Caradrhas which then makes the avalanche in the film, Gandalf's failed counter spell was intended to make Caradhras go back to sleep.
The word smial is an invention of Tolkien based on the Old English word smygel. Smial is a translation of the Hobbitish word trân (Rohirric trahan "burrow").[5] Tolkien explained in his Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings the origin of the name Sméagol in the lemma on smials: "Smials. A word peculiar to hobbits (not Common Speech), meaning 'burrow'; leave unchanged. It is a form that the Old English word smygel 'burrow' might have had, if it had survived. The same element appears in Gollum's real name, Sméagol." ― Tolkien [6] The names Smaug and Sméagol are etymologically related.
The Shire was actually based on the Lake District, Tolkien got the idea for the Shire when he was teaching at a boarding school in the Lake District and his personal quarters in the school faced the rolling hills of the Lake District, thats how he got the idea for the Shire.
7 лет назад
In a letter to his publishers, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien wrote that The Shire - home to the "little people" better known as hobbits - was "more or less a Warwickshire village of about the period of [Queen Victoria's] Diamond Jubilee" in 1897.Although born in South Africa in 1892, Tolkien moved to England at the age of four with his mother and brother after the death of his father. They lived in and around Birmingham, including at the village of Sarehole, which, like the fictional Hobbiton, had a corn-grinding mill by the water.In a newspaper interview Tolkien fondly recalled the area, saying the Shire was "inspired by a few cherished square miles of actual countryside at Sarehole".However, while the mill is still standing, the area is now surrounded by Birmingham's suburbs. So we are both wrong....
well i'm not wrong, the documentary i watched on tolkien was wrong, however i really like your video's so keep up the good work sunbeam ! Arachîr Galudirithon
Correct, it is based on Warwickshire. Had to visit it when I found that out. Went to a few villages around there. Its a truly beautiful area. By the way, I cannot get enough of your vids. you have such amazing insight and knowledge of Tolkien's world. So thank you so so much Please keep producing such incredible work :)
+richieblackhearted Oh yes precious! Keep nasty chips and give us squiggly fishhhhhhhhh! Smeagol wont look for nasty,smelly plants and doe not eat them ,no precious not unless he is very very hungry or sick!!!
My Grandfather on my mother's side, From Ottowa, Candada, who created the old bleach called Kormonwater, akin to Clorix by from the early 30the centruy, shortly after he fought in the Spanish American war. Sired 13, One died in infancy but 14 lived. the first, Jeanette, perishing in 1943, tow years before I was born. He lived until the late 1960's. My mother, Dorice Monast, married Michael Lyman and I am the last surviving male. My sister, Dorice, about to yours younger than I, form whom I have not heard in 25 years, lives in Texas. USA, I live in Massachusetts, where the Monast family Settled in the early 20th century. So large families among Men were possible, and in the late 19th and eally 20th century, fairly common
I think most of us who survived ancestors 5 generations ago, all come from large families. Otherwise like the Mozart family ( Leopold Mozart had 6 children of which 2 survived Nannerl and Wolfgang; Wolfgang had 6 children only 2 boys survived neither had any children in adulthood; and that line ended). our lineage would be extinct, thus we wouldn't have existed. To come from a small family before early 1900's is statistically rare. And a "small" family would be 4 to 6 children. I would think any family size smaller than the "small" 4 to 6 kids in the somewhat far past, and you exist today, you really did win the lottery of existing.
+Arachir Galudirithon Mae Govannen mellon! I know one thing that irks me about the movies adaption of LoTR, and that is the Pointy ears of the elves. Artwork too,from Ted Nasmith etc. I do not have one example of Tolkien EVER saying ,or describing elves with pointed ears! Nor Hobbits! It is one thing that I never understood!! NO ELVES HAVE POINTED EARS!!! LOL. Tell me if you have come across this ,in any portion of Tolkiens works. Cheers mate!
If Gollum had reasonably survived after the destruction of the Ring, would he also have been granted passage to the Undying Lands?
5 лет назад
In my opinion, absolutely not. It is also unknown how quickly the effects of the ring wear off. Gollum was given extra life to the tune of 500+ years, with the ring gone. He might well have died of old age the very next day. :)
@ That's a fair point. Do we have any clues anywhere as to the residual effects of the Ring? He lost it to Bilbo in TA 2941 and the Ring was destroyed in TA 3019. So Gollum was without it for 78 years, though it's entirely possible he could have still been drawing power through some unquenchable thirst to have it back? What do you think?
You forgot to mention that the Shire itself is sadly destroyed long long after the Sam leaves for Valinor and Merry and Pippin are laid to rest in Gondor. There's only a small paragraph in the Unfinished Tales which briefly states that after the Northern Kingdom was rebuilt, the race of men expanded in numbers and thus required more land for living and farming. This brought them into conflict with the Shire which was invaded as a result. Nothing more is said about what happened to the Hobbits.
7 лет назад
You get me the exact passage that says that Aragorn invades the Shire and I will prove you wrong sir. ;) Aragorn gifts the Shire to the Hobbits and gives them autonomy. Or are you trying to sucker people into thinking this?
Arachîr Galudirithon You've got that completely wrong. The destruction of the Shire happens many many hundreds of years after Aragorn died and long after the descendants of Sam, Merry and Pippin have died.
Arachîr Galudirithon In the Appendix titled Numenorean Linear Measures Page 372 it says "The much later dwindling of Hobbits must be due to a change in their state and way of life, they became a fugitive and secret people driven (as men became more and more numerous, usurping the more fertile and habitable lands) to refuge in the forest or wilderness, a wandering and poor folk."
The Shire: based on England. The movie set is in New Zealand. :/
5 лет назад
New Zealand has the mountains of Middle-earth that England doesn't. Whilst the Shire is based on English countryside, Middle-earth is much too mountainous to be represented here.
13 children wasn't actually that much in a pre-modern agricultural community. In fact, just a hundred years ago it was rather normal for people to have 8 or 10 children. They had to, because many children died young, and yet children were needed to help the parents out once they grow up and the parents grow old.
Anna Marianne I was surprised too with his “failure”. My great-grandmother had 19 children, each one of her daughters had like 10 children each (my grandmother for example), only in my parents generation 2/3 children became the normal...
That was my question, how many survived? Because large families weren't uncommon. Them all surviving was somewhat less common, but did happen. My ancestry on both sides had huge families in the far past. And actually most of them all survived. Hence I exist. But most other people who had large families, the infant and child mortality rates were high. Today, in underdeveloped nations people still have huge families on average. Because most of their kids won't survive into adulthood. Phenomena of developing is that they quit having huge families because the children do survive. And become expensive rather than beneficial as they stop farming which requires lots of labor, and do other developed work; crafts, manufacturing, mechanic, labor, finance, customer service, retail, utilities, banking/finance, sciences, engineering, arts, etc. Reason rice agricultural regions have huge populations still today like China, India, Japan, Korea, etc. is largely due to rice being even more labor intensive than wheat, oats, and barley. All things being equal, they had the same amount of famine, plague/disease, warfare. Their birth rates were even higher to support their rice farm living. Some of the cultures in the east were more cleaner in some sense, like Japanese focus on having clean homes and bathing rituals. Tea drinking, boiling of water, inadvertently pasteurized to an extent the water they drank, and not relied on being three sheets to the wind most of the time with grog in a slight drunken stupor that wasn't much of a healthy alternative. So they were a bit more healthier cultural habits too, compared to Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Combined effects of even bigger families and healthier cultural lifestyle gave rice growing regions a larger population than non-rice growing regions. Anyway, not uncommon all through until early 1900's that families were huge. Was just often they didn't survive childhood, or just barely into adulthood. There's also another component, no other forms of education, steady employment (farming has several periods of long downtime in winter, and even summer) little entertainment... what we gonna do? I don't know... lets snuggle bunny together. Oh look another baby :)
Did the Hobbits actually sent a detachment of archers at the Battle of Fornost or is not ? If I am not mistaken I remember reading this either on some part in the Fellowship of the Ring or on a Appendix. Thanks
The hobbits' histories mention sending the archers, but there is no reference to that in anyone else's histories. So, either the hobbits never sent any help and tried to add that in later, or they did send the archers and they simply got left out of other accounts, or they sent the archers but something happened to them on the way to Fornost.
"To the last battle at Fornost with the Witch-lord of Angmar they sent some bowmen to the aid of the king, or so they maintained, though no tales of Men record it." - LotR; Fellowship of the Ring; Concerning Hobbits
