I loved the change in tone of Messmer's intro dialogue for his fight, the trailer had it shown off as if he himself was ambitious or prideful. But when you go to fight him, he is... tired, depressed even, because he was abandoned by his Mother, and that in spite of his crusades against those who had been shorn of light, a tarnished, a person who lacked grace, was chosen Lord. Messmer sounds so lost and dejected when he says "Thou'rt Tarnished, it seemeth." The DLC has some of the best voice acting that I have ever heard. Easily my favorite cutscene from the DLC.
Honestly i imagine him off screen after you die turning to his statue and being like "mother... wtf is this bullshit, i killed all these without grace and become a monster for you and now you wanna marry one? Are you taking the piss?"
I think that the line in the trailer was said at the start of the crusade, when Messmer was still a fanatical follower of Marika - while when we fight him, he is just so insanely tired by the centuries of unending war and disillusioned in his mother's vision since she abandoned him for who knows how many centuries Oh, and his fight will never end, since Marika's dog ate the very concept of Death - can't exactly finish the genocide of Hornsent if they never truly die
It has bugged me for a long time that one of the braids on the Marika statues is shorter than the other. Finding the Marika braid in the village finally made it make sense.
The shamans having affinity to meld their bodies together makes Godrick's own affinity of grafting more logical giving he's descendant of a shaman. Maybe this also explains how Rykard melded with the Serpent that ate him, along with all the sacrifices.
A theory I’ve seen explored is that through comparison of the jars in the Land of Shadow to the Lands Between, Marika’s removal of the Rune of Death was to usher in a sort of reincarnation system for the Shamans - where the Land of Shadows only has Shamans forming the basis of jars, EVERYONE in the lands between can be used to fill jars, as shown by Alexander. So, the theory goes that through reincarnation, everyone in the lands between - including you as the tarnished, are of Shaman descent. And an extrapolation of why grafting is heretical under the golden order is due to it being an echo of shamans being wounded and stuffed into jars for the purposes of melding their flesh with others.
@@ocrgmsfyv8819Radagon is Marika though. Also judging by how the children of Radagon and Rennala are still considered demigods, one of them even being an empyrean, I think it still counts for Rykard having some traits of the shamans via Marika/Radagon.
@@Irishman8778 Radagon is Marika, but it isn't entirely clear if he has always been Marika. I somewhat suspect that Radagon started out as his own person, maybe himself an empyrean or demi-god and an avatar of the Golden Order, who would only become one with Marika (maybe through her shaman flesh) at the behest of the Two Fingers who maybe were not content with how Marika had been ruling so far and wanted to be able to control her more directly. There's also the fact of him having red hair, which is commonly associated with the Fire Giants, so he might have partially been of giant origin. After all, we pretty much must assume that Radagon and Marika weren't in the same place all the time. I'm pretty sure the royalty of Lenydell would have noticed if their queen was suddenly missing for a few years as Radagon was busy banging the Carian Queen.
With how far back the "brokenness" seems to go, I wonder if there never was a Greater Will in the first place, just beings arriving and claiming to be voices for it, creating a cosmic game of telephone to enforce their wills on the Lands Between
The Finger mother is a vassal of the Greater Will, like the Elden Beast. But while the Elden Beast is related to the Erdtree itself, the Finger Mother is the source of all fingers. What this does for me is paint a picture of two extraterrestrial entities arriving and basically performing parasitism across the world. The Finger mother has her fingers act like speakers for the Greater Will, while the Elden Beast deals with the concepts of grace.
The remembrance item of metyr seems to suggest that the greater will is actually the GOD, creator of the universe and such existing outside the microcosm communicating through metyr and the fingers. The greater will was there but abandoned the lands between after the shattering as intro states "a war leading to abandonment by the greater will". The greater will also sent the elden beast as elden stars and elden beast remembrance both state greater will sent it to establish order and the dlc confirms that greater will is the GOD. Ymir even states we all are children of the greater will. It seems the shattering is what made the greater will abandon the lands between.
@@sangumlinggi8330 But Ymir also points out that the Golden Order and the Fingers were broken long before even Marika ascended to Godhood, and that Metyr was abandoned by the Greater Will a long time ago. It's highly likely that the whole thing was doomed to fail right from the start because the greater will likely fucked off a long time ago - perhaps even before Marika. Perhaps sending the Elden Beast was their goodbye to the Lands Between.
@@DillonHiles Marika was broken because of what happened to her people and her village. Ymir probably meant that Marika was mentally fucked and bitter from the start due to what happened to her people and therefore unfit to become a god as goldmask rune states that they are unfit to become a god due to fickleness. Marika was too hateful, too rebellious and too bitter to the point she condemned her own son to the sewers because she hated horns and broke the elden ring out of spite and a reminder that even after becoming a god she could not escape her suffering and godwyn's death sent her to the brink. Metyr is probably broken probably because it was abandoned. Ymir wants to replace metyr which is why he may have said some shit.
I haven't seen anyone else talk about it, but does anyone else feel like Melania is also a victim of Miquella? For him, she marched on Caild, waged war on Radahn, and let the rot bloom for him, but as far as I can tell, not one of the crosses mentions her. He never loved her. She was just another means to the ends.
I just watched one of vaati’s other videos talking about how melania could possibly have a 3rd bloom after her death and the strength of those chosen by the rot god is enhanced when victims of betrayal. Having it turn out that miquella actually betraying melania and her finding out could be the single most horrifying thing these realms have seen.
Miquella tried hard to remove Malenia's scarlet rot and when the Golden Order couldn't do it, he established his own society, the Unalloyed Gold. He also tried to give Godwyn a "true death" but deathblight still continued to spread like the scarlet rot. All these failures pushed him to be a god himself because no one around him has the solutions so he has to do it himself.
I don't think you can rightly say he didn't love his sister when every indication we've gotten in the game up until now is that he did everything in his power to rescue her from the scarlet rot and only turned to his DLC scheme when all of those prior plans failed.
The crosses only mention his own body parts though, none of his relations with other people. (Trina is literally part of him, it's different from an actual separate autonomous human like Malenia). Miquella poured his life energy into developing unalloyed gold (solely for Malenia) and the Haligtree (which was supposed to become a new Erdtree). It's heavily implied that the reason he became disillusioned with the Golden Order is because he was seeing Malenia's curse every day of his life. (Item description that says he must 'correct the sins of the erdtree'), which sins would he be exposed to from a young age? Exactly. I think out of every character in the game, Miquella has the purest relationship with Malenia.
When dealing with someone who can so easily influence people, you can't look at words, only deeds. Miquela did work hard to try and help his sister. He did make the unalloyed gold needles, he did make the Hailigtree as a haven, he did sacrifice his own blood to try and make it work. And he did give up everything to become a God and usher in his Age of Compassion, that would have protected Melania from the intervention of the Scarlet Rot God. But no end justifies the means he used.
I wonder. What if the hornset only started tormenting the shaman's only after merika betrayed them? That will explain how her actions could have been considered a betrayal in the first place.
Interesting note is that the statue behind Messmer's throne resembles the Abductor Virgin's design i.e. a grieving mother, cradling her infant child flanked by serpents. I like to think that the Abyssal Serpent manifested in some way in Mount Gelmir, and Rykard too bore a vision of Messmer's abandonment and the image of the burning Erdtree. Thus, Rykard foresaw that Marika would abandon her children, and sought his own Impaler-esque crusade against the Erdtree. Messmer himself states the Serpent is shorn of light, so it only makes sense that the Serpent Hunter imbues itself with Light to kill that which is shorn of it.
The way I see it, in her youth Marika came across (either coincidentally or guided to) the Finger Mother. With the finger's guidance, instead of sharing her people's gruesome fate, she used seduction and deception to make her way into the Hornsent's society (as the grandam stated, by a lot of bed activity) and eventually reached the Gate of divinity and ascended into godhood (the process also presumably separated Radagon from her, just like how Miquella separated St.Trina from himself). This is just me speculating, but it might be why Morgoth and Mohg are Omens (or Hornsents) while her true son with Godfrey, Godwyn is without any affliction. And why she despised them so.
Love this compilation of tidbits and looking forward to the in depth ones to come. I hope you have a speedy recovery from covid, even mild it's a pain to deal with.
I believe that just as Miquela went to the gate of divinity in Enir Ilim to become a god, so did Marika, sent by the people of Belurat. This was her "betrayal", she mixed gold and served the greater will instead of serving those who transformed her into a goddess. in fact (theory here)I don't think she would even want to serve the greater will, this can be theorized by reading the enchantment left in her home village, it is the only enchantment in the game that does not belong to any specific category and the only one in which the parchment in its background art it does not have any symbol, and it says "Only the kindness of gold, without Order." the greater will is gold along with order
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims is the most oppressive. CS Lewis Miquella seems to be written with this very quote in mind. He genuinely earned his sobriquet the kind. However in the name of kindness, she has done the vilest of things. I don't even know where the frenzy flame ending is worse then this perfectly ordered planet of puppets that he desires
2:50 I believe Radahn fought so hard because of the fact he celebrated and admired war. He wanted to die a warrior's death. Earn his right to be Miquella's Lord.
It’s my personal head canon that as tarnished, we rose to power scouring the lands between, laying vanquish to any that could possibly appose us on the throne. We are guided by the greater will, which long ago abandoned the fingers and the golden order. We are a sort of “test” for the current age. Should we fail, the golden order IS sufficient to the greater will. But our victory shows that the golden order was not to the liking of the greater will. Further more, by choosing the dusk born enough and mending the rune of death, we ensure no one could possibly come about enough power to challenge the now risen tarnished, for the reason the tarnished was able to achieve their power was through great trial and error through death and rebirth. With the death rune mended, no one can take on such a journey like we have. No clue how the DLC fits in but that’s a discussion, for another comment….
Well there was no other way for Miquella too. If you are born in this dirty world of hate, fights and blood AND your ability is "Stealing Hearts" - wouldn't you use it? It's the only form of love he knew I guess. Full control and obedience. Instead of "winning over" someone, showing your good side - you can just skip this whole part of any relationships and just "steal a heart". As many others in Elden Ring he was corrupted by his power and there was no one to tell him that.
I find this all to be super cool! The DLC is amazing!!! The thing that confuses me about this lore is the fact that the greater will had sent a second Elden beast. Maybe Marika’s folly is that she listened to the guidance of the two fingers who claimed to speak the will of the greater will instead of listening to what the new batch of Elden beast has to say 🤷♂️ I also find it interesting that all of Marika’s children that came from a union other than Godfrey ended up being seduced or cursed to be the servant/vessel of a God different from the greater will (with the exception of Mohg, who probably was seduced by other Gods after being defected for his horns). Maybe the greater will wanted Marika to pursue her campaign with Godfrey and stay with him. Maybe the greater will didn’t call for her to seek vengeance or seek to eliminate or shun omens. Maybe the two fingers seduced her by stating that the greater Will wanted her to seek revenge. To oust Godfrey, then man who gave her omen children. Maybe her marrying radagon was her following the fingers influence and she followed it because she wanted to have offspring that weren’t omens. And maybe the fingers misled her to all of this as a final FU to the greater will for abandoning them 🤷♂️
If you look up the dictionary definition of "Consort" it can also mean "a ship sailing in company with another."... and there are also ships all over the place in the Realm of Shadow. Is it possible that Micquella wanted to sail with Radhan into the lands between rather than him to be his "consort" in the more traditional sense?
Ansbach is THE guy. I will never forget his final words. He alone has made me wish to join Mohg back when he was normal :( with men like him as his right hand, it makes you think just how cool Mohg used to have been
Sir Ansbach is the best NPC in this DLC by far, he says one of the best lines if he gets defeated during the Radahn fight: "Righteous Tarnished, become a lord, not for gods, but for all men." Like literally "fuck the gods, do it for us"
Yeah, it's funny isn't it? Leda, the holy knight serving "Miquella the Kind" turned out to be this murder-happy lunatic, meanwhile the guy who used to serve the literal Lord of Blood turns out to be the most respectful, reasonable of them all.
damn, miquella really learned about the secret plot behind his mother's rise to godhood concealing oppression, murder, and subjugation and went "there's only one way to make this right: I gotta ascend to godhood via some kind of secret plot concealing oppression, murder, and subjugation"
It's like people that praise police violence as "actually solving the problem" - brother they used to crucify people in public and romans were still stealing bread, you're just being straight up fucking evil
He actually deliberately goes down this method to Godhood in order to get out and away from Marika's heritage, because he figures out Marika's entire bloodline is cursed by the Hornsent due to how she ascended, hence why he casts practically all of himself away, he wants to make his own thing, free of the "old order" (Which Marika doesn't oppose, she did tell ALL of her children to become whatever they wish to be). The consequence of doing this though, as Ansbach figures out, and St. Trina directly implies, is that by throwing away everything that made Miquella who he was, even if he was benevolent before, how could he EVER rule benevolently? All that's left of him is basically the shell of himself, not bound by any doubts or cares, with his powers to charm anyone into perfect loyalty. And what has he done merely to begin with? Made a Frankenstein's monster of two of his brothers to MAKE himself a Lord-Consort, not even understanding the degradation done to either of them. You can't even argue it's a malevolent decision, because he doesn't even understand what he's doing in such terms. May well be a consequence of his eternal youth. That being said, I do think he fully understood what it meant when he cast his St. Trina half away, otherwise he wouldn't have deliberately hidden it.
That was honestly probably the most touching thing anyone in the game ever said about me. The sheer conviction in his voice is moving. I'd follow him over the Mohglester any day.
Lol radahn was Holding back the stars soo that fate would remain stagnant soo that his fate of becoming miquellas consort would not come to pass even when he was basically brain dead..But Ranni had to just be the Independent Queen that she is...and as her simp we do the deed..Sorry Mogh and RADAHN ..for being a simp..
Hilariously enough that might have actually been the deal and radahn was totally accepting of the consort part. At the very least he did accept to be his consort. According to freyja's questline
@@UnalloyedRascalI doubt It Because if Radahn already agreed to the vow, Miquella has no reason to kill him. Radahn can just resume the movement of the stars and become his consort willingly. He most likely refused because he felt that following someone's orders is disgraceful for someone as strong as himself or he just refused so that the entire world doesn't get turned into Miquella's slaves.
So assuming they are two halves of the same person, Miquella abandoned his love in his other self, St Trina...which means when St Trina asks you to kill Miquella, it's out of genuine, actual love and care for what's happening to him. It's also why St Trina dies when you kill him.
Marika can't seem to escape her past. She tried purging the world of the crucible, and even sought to erase its memory in her new order-- only for it to manifest in her sons. She tried to purge her son of the evil snake thing inside him, then later abandoned and hid him from the world-- only for Rykard to go insane and have himself be consumed by one. She plucked the rune of death, in order to create a deathless age- only for her daughter to use that same rune to kill her golden son-- who, in turn, would become the avatar of another form of death. And the irony of it all- she gained power and created a new era, in the service of a God who might not have been there at all.
TBF, it seems likely the Hornsent cursed her children. It also goes a long way to explain why Godwyn's assassination hit her so hard. Out of all of her "true" children (By this, I don't count the Carian siblings, as none of them viewed Marika as their true parent), he was perfect, the one child she had herself as Marika that was unblemished by ANY curse and who was the most beloved of all of them.
@@cernunnos8344 omen's horns represent the "primordial crucible, where all life was once blended together", which i think litterally means being blended in the jars
@@wakamoon1910I think omens was a derogatory term created by Marika when referring to Hornsent people. Cuz who says “I’ve got a good omen” but you do hear “bad omen” way more
It honestly feels like a similar thing to Galadriel's "All shall love me and despair" from Lord of the Rings. Of course, in her take she rejected this plan of action as a terrible fate.
probably cause they felt betrayed by Marika's abandon. So they cut off her head on every statue. Except the one in his throne chamber since he protects it. He understood her betrayal only near death
I'm not sure that's Marika. That might be the Grandmother Marika offered her hairbriad to. Notably that statue has all loose hair and Marika has braids
And then her own fuckin kids were omen. How hard can it be to understand that you shouldn't punish people especially your own children for the actions of those you yourself executed and on top of it all she has the audacity to take the title of a God but yet are threatened by those so called lesser beings. The Greater Will merely used her trauma to allow it to influence her and follow what it says instead of giving her true enlightenment. Truly a God not worth worshipping
Did no one notice the room in the shadow keep, before you fight Messmer, where you can see some sort of "recovery hospital"? You can see jars that were opened with shamans on the bed that seem to have been in the middle of some sort of recovery...their flesh is pulled apart, almost as if they are trying to reverse the "Potting" process...almost as if Messmer was trying to save the Shamans...maybe under Marika's order?
You missed that Melina uses the Minor Erdtree incantation when you summon her against Morgott. The same incantation that is Marika’s secret incantation
@@pohja4552 the flame that you get when you kill mesmer mentiones mesmers sister, that can only be Melina, besides that and the minor erdtree its possible she is the person lementing the genocide in the cinematic trailer that came out. Mesmer also has an outer god in his right eye while melinas left eye is gloam. Being in the lands of shadow would also explain why she is so against the frenzied flame and the golden order.
Messmers eye is such an amazing little design trick. If you dont look closely, it's just a snakes eye. Makes sense, dude loves his snakes obviously. But during the cutscene you can kinda see there is more on the upper part of the slit, and then he opens it for a few frames and you see it was a symbol of marikas grace the entire time. Nobody does subtle design like this on the same level that FROM does. Another thing: You can see two of Placidusax' heads still attached to Bayles back when you fight him.
@@VaatiVidya Mispap1 is amazing. I'm grateful you have a good partner. What do you think about all the vaati video editor jokes though ever since a fake one popped up with the leaks?
Miquella's promised age of enchantment reminds me of one of my favourite lines in a souls game from Aldia in Scholar of the First Sin when he says "No matter how tender, how exquisite... A lie will remain a lie."
@@waspopticIt sure sounds so good but the greatest dailogue will always be, hand it over that thang your dark soul. For my lady's painting. Nothing else will take the top spot from the best ever conclusion to a series so befittingly. It has always been about dark souls. Gwyn Namless King all else didn't really matter. This is the end. That's the culmination.
A few things i've found very interesting; - St Trina being confirmed as an alter-ego/other self of Miquella, similar to Marika and Radagon's relationship, has led to more open confirmation of something that almost every known empyrean shares; Multiplicity. Malenia has her "Daughters" that rose out of the scarlet rot. Ranni is the only one we aren't sure about, but then again, she does have two faces, and that might not be unique to her being a spirit inhabiting a doll whenever we see her. - Miquella's curse, being permanently a child... might not just be physical. It's more than possible that it's a mental thing as well. That he still has the attitude and worldview of a child. That he can't see the horror inherent to his behavior. Even asides the potential ickyness of his plan with his brothers (which is basically double non-consensual incest), bringing peace by mind controlling everyone is kinda fucked up. But that's not something a child would necessarily realise, hm?
Radahn, Ranni and Reykard all don't have other parts of themselves, but they all have spirits that can return to another body (doll, Mohg, snake), they just can't split off. I think it's the eyes. Radahn has his golden eyes rather than Mohg's red eyes, Reykard was eaten whole including his eyes, and Ranni has one eye shut. I think she has her left eye in the doll's right socket. The difference seems that numens can divide their soul while half-numens can't, but they can still mend with their host matter and control it.
Ranni MAY have lost that when she lost her flesh in the Night of Black Knives, but through sorcerous preparation and the fact that her soul remained, she had the Marionette body prepped. But then again, there is also her Doll. Miquella though yea, most resembled Marika with the dual aspect, and I think it does lend a lot of credibility to the idea that Radagon effectively was his own entity who was able to be separate, then rejoined Marika later but still has his own agency even in a single form.
Vaati speculates the shamen were all female at one point. I dont think that is strictly the case (Radagon proves that her race has male and female) but it is possible they produce both through copulation AND asexually. Regularly dividing into new beings when they dont copulate. That is consistent across Godwyn, Malania, and Marika AND would explain Ranni, AND plays in opposition to the theme of the frenzied flame of combineing. Markia and Her faction divide (both literally and figureatively) while the three fingers combine.
I think the "betrayal" part might not actually imply that there was an alliance that was broken, I think the Hornsent simply saw it as their right to subjugate the Shamans and probably even deluted themselves into thinking that they were doing them a favor by helping them reach "divinity", so when (one of) those Shamans rebelled against their enslavement, the Hornsent saw it as a betrayal even though there was basically only a one sided alliance to break in place there.
Yea in many cultures victim of sacrifice was seen not as a, well, victim, but as a chosen one who got sent to the gods, and resistance or retaliation was not expected (and wasn't conducted by most because they too shared such belief, but if someone decided to live and put a fight they seen as insane or betrayers of favor)
@@PanBuchticka It's hard to say. Maybe they thought that there was some kind of enlightenment or godhood to being stuffed in a jar? Either way the implications are a bit unnerving.
@@arcanefire7511 It's an oxymoron, but it works in Marika's case. She wants chaos and freedom, but she wants it in a way where she is still on top. All the power and none of the responsibility.
Something to note: Miquella charms even those who would be loyal to his cause. Such as Leda, Freyja, and Dane. It makes me wonder if his supposed "Gentler World" is nothing more than a hollow utopia, where people live and die on Miquella's terms and not their own.
Indeed a good fair few were charmed. But when you entered the realm of shadow, Miquellas charms on his prior victims were broken. Its the reason Ansbach realized how much he hated Miquella. His memories of him spilling Miquellas blood, returned to him. Even still, some Npcs like Leda and Freya, still look at Miquella with reverence because of their own reasons and stay with him despite knowing that they were charmed. They simply believe in Miquellas cause, I can only assume the enchantment doesn't make you feel any different if you were already on board with Miquella's plan to begin with.
@@brycethornerI think the charm just makes you follow whatever Miquella wants you to. All the charmed NPCs had different alignments but never fought each other until the charm was broken. People like Ansbach hated Miquella for the awful things he did while others devoted like Leda worshipped him. All of them were charmed into being compassionate to others against their will. As soon as the charm broke Ansbach was back to hating Miquella and was right on board to helping you kill him, while Leda immediately distrusted all the others around her and started hunting them.
Miquella's charm seems to be twofold: It makes the followers focus on their goal, and more importantly renders them more loyal to *each other*, not Miquella. Leda in particular is absolutely faithful regardless but immediately becomes suspicious once the charm breaks. That seems to be the key to his age: he makes the people he rules over more compassionate and unwilling to fight each other, regardless of what they want, and any who refuse to be embraced and embrace others are destroyed by the great lion he has for a lord. In his mind, it must be a perfect solution.
You all bring up good points and I do think that I glossed over the fact that Leda was a crazy fanatic and likely needed the charm to keep her from killing the others. Something I wish would happen once he abandons his Great Rune: enemies in the Haligtree start to fight one another. After all, if Miquella charms everyone who would follow him to ensure cooperation and teamwork, who's to say that he didn't charm people in the Haligtree, or even his own twin sister?
I wonder if the "it would be his prison" means that to some extent Miquella's ability to charm comes from being charmed. If his wanting to bring a gentler age and to help people wasn't just a personality thing, if he is also sort of cursed into altruism. So shedding everything that originally made Miquella a person left only the drive to spread this cursed form of altruism. That without the important personal drives like the love represented by St Trina there's nothing left of Miquella to govern how to achieve a peaceful reign except this cursed charm. Malenia also can become a god, but in blooming into one she sheds all aspects of self. She is also cursed in such a way that forces godhood on her by rotting away anything that isn't the spread of rot. Just as she has an ambient rotting effect on the people that pledge themselves to her, I wonder if Miquella also can't turn the ambient effect of his charm off. Perhaps he even charmed his sister without realizing it. Though all of that that may be a bit too esoteric. Though if Marika was destined to being striped of her identifying features, grafted onto bits of other people so asto further bury her person, and imprisoned in a pot for others to have a saint; it might be a reoccurring theme that proximity to divinity requires and causes one to be reduced to a singular purpose lacking identity and personal motivations. Whipped into the Greater Will. And she and her children are doomed to struggle against a fated imprisonment because of their proximity to divinity. Godwyn and Mogh are hollowed out and reduced to living corpses. Rykard, Radahn, and Ranni all end up inside something other than their own bodies and this strips them of their recognizable features. Malenia is confirmed cursed with godhood, and it would make sense to suggest Miquella is also ultimately cursed with his godhood just in a way he doesn't yet know.
I think one can easily argue at this point that the interpretations of the games endings are now designed to be interpreted a bit differently in light of the DLC. The frenzied flame ending is still nihilistic chaos. The Omen Curse ending is our Tarnished assisting a possibly unwitting Dung Eater to deliver the Hornsent curse upon all of the Golden Order forever. The Death ending is an attempt to rectify Godwyn's fate and provide a place for him in the Golden Order. The Goldmask ending is attempting to perfect the current order by essentially using an imperfect version of what would be Miquellas order of unalloyed gold. Ranni's Ending in light of the DLC is a complete foil to Miquella's ending. A world whose God is far away and exerts little influence over the day to day lives of her people. A goddess with a willing cadre of loyal companions who sacrifice everything to see her world come to pass of their own free will. A lord consort (us) who chooses his fate and warrants that title with strength. Versus Miquellas compassionate lobotomized order of pure amd gentle control, his captive, brainwashed band who turn on eachother the moment he lets go and his unwilling consort.
@@ScarecrowNonsense im still thinking omen curse is about removal of death rune from elden ring. Without complete elden ring world tends to turn back to normal/primal. Its not about that old womans curse words.
Goldmask takes free will outta marika making her unemotional and just. He integrated the those who live in death into the order as he sees the folly of hunting the dead. Miquella's age of compassion is basicly madara's tsukoyomi. He'll charm everyone. Goldmask's ending remains the objectively best greater will ending. Ranni manipulates the tarnished, but we don't know how the Dark Moon order will treat people but based on the last cutscene it doesn't look good.
My thoughts, largely in agreement with yours, but my takes on them, including those which cannot become a thing, but are theorized: Frenzied Flame: Yea, total nihilistic chaos. You judge ALL are not worthy of this power so to cast it away entirely and destroy much of all that is in the process. Fell Curse: Yea, spread the Hornsent's Curse beyond merely Marika and instead upon ALL who exist. Goldmask: Remove the Fickleness of the Gods, and thus remove the flaws within the existing Golden Law by refining its principles. (Its actually different from Miquella's because this would be a change upon the rulers of the world, not upon the people at large, arguably) Duskborn: Give the Dead a true ruler, and make mortality the norm rather than cyclical immortality. Age of Starlight: The Gods are there, but removed, distanced, from the regular affairs of the people. Concerned more with cosmic affairs rather than earthly ones. As for ones we know of, but cannot make into reality: Age of Rot: Malenia never seeks this and thus it can never become a thing, but it's an age of "beautiful decay" I believe it's described. Of fleeting life, but graceful rebirth all shrouded in scarlet rot. Radahn, likely would have pursued a continuation of the Golden Law as was prior to the Shattering, with probably minimal alterations, though perhaps leaning more towards Godfrey's focus on strength being the order of the day as opposed to Radagon's. Morgot seeks no new age given what he knows, but he likely would be similar to Radahn. Mogh would seek his Age of Blood, and bringing the Formless Mother to prominence, but this ends with his charming by Miquella. Rykard's gone mad at the point we see him, but prior to his madness, he believed that divinity was not given, it was taken by the strong and that any means permissible. There was cut content of a potential Miquella ending, or "Age of Compassion" ending, where I figure we'd become his Lord-Consort in place of Radahn. It's described as an age where all things "graceful" and "not-so-graceful" would thrive equally, under Miquella's benevolent hand removing all need for conflict. (Read as charm everyone into not wanting to seek conflict)
So, the reason Merika was so insanely cruel to those with horns was because they kidnapped her people, whipped them and then placed them in Jars. Then Marika gained godly power and took her revenge against them. It's cruel, but cruelty is a snake eating itself.
Man how would have I loved some kind of special interaction in the final fight if you have completed Ranni's quest. Like, some sort of aid from her during phase 2 - her being summoned or you being given a buff with some kind of visual effect (maybe even an unique dialog). So it would have been a clash not only between Lords, but also with their own gods (or would-be gods) on their sides. I mean, even having the Dark Moon shine up in the sky during the fight like during Radahn's second phase would have been awesome.
yes i think its actually an inexcusable oversight that there is no way to acknowledge the questline in the dlc whatsoever. like, im not saying fromsoft are bad or whatever, but its like almost as big an oversight as forgetting to put the erdtree in the game. like you said, even just a moon or something. IMO the perfect thing to have done wouldve been in the second phase, when radahn descents like a comet, just have ranni make a moon to block it. that would be a simple and elegant way to acknowledge the literal parallel between ranni, you and miquella and radahn. it also wouldnt make for such a large advantage that players who didnt do the questline would have it much harder. the comet descent is fairly easy to dodge. kinda sad. Eventhough it is clear that with every new thing they release, they improve leaps and bounds in terms of storytelling, they seem to be chained to only ever telling other characters stories, never yours as the player. especially in a game like elden ring that makes a point of giving you an array of options to choose from to reshape the order, none of those choices actually ever matter, except in a very specific instance. if you take the frenzied flame before melina burns herself, she will leave you, and later appear to hunt you. that is great! even if there functionally isnt any gameplay consequence - you can still level up, and teleport and so on - it still feels like a huge consequence for an action the player just took BEFORE an ending. please, we need more of that stuff in ER
That's probably still Leyndell, Godrick shouldn't be nowhere near old enough for his "home" to be the shaman village (not to mention the shaman being exclusively women)
@@Gale42 I looked into cut content and yes, the full monologue makes it clear he's talking about Leyndell. But the fact that its left so open in the final version and him using grafting via his shaman blood makes it come off to me like he embraces what Marika herself outlawed, after her people were exploited for it. The Village may have been sort of a place of myth to him, like the Garden of Eden. Godrick might've wanted the golden lineage to return to it's place of origin, Marika's birthplace. But I think the problem with this entire theory lies more with the fact that there is no indication anyone knew about the land of shadow, let alone the village, besides the people Miquella wanted to get there. It would've made for a better goal than just becoming king of Leyndell for Godrick though, in my opinion
@@Gale42 Plus, Godrick is like that annoying fourth cousin who insists he's part of the family, makes no sense for him to know where Marika's home would be lol
Mohg's ending is even sadder when you realize that since he was born an omen, much like morgott, he never felt love from the beginning, so with Miquella's "power of love" he was easily swayed., his brother Morgott felt loved thru servitude with the erdtree, but both of our boys were never loved in return, only used, not really different from the real world.
That depends on if Miquella made Mohg feel loved or if Miquella only made others love himself. Also, Morgott is noted as never being loved, so he didn't feel loved through servitude to the Erdtree.
@@spacepunch8338 Marika "banished" Godfrey and his people (the Tarnished) as her plan B if the demigods failed to create a new age on their own after she broke the elden ring. In a way, you could say she actually placed a great deal of faith in Godfrey to carry out her wishes after she was gone. (She's the vessel of the elden ring, breaking it is the same thing as breaking herself.)
@@Mohmar2010yeah also additionally when you consider Mohg’s pure blood knights seem like an order Godfrey would create I think it’s not too far fetched to assume Mohg also felt some form of love for his father. My guess is that Godfrey was against his kids being killed by Marika and imprisoning them in the sewers was a form of compromise. Godfrey likely still visited his kids in the sewers as well, which might be why Mohg was inspired to create the pure blood knights.
I can't help but think that in the lands between the jars are not inspired in the Lands of Shadows , but a correction , not filled with torture and pain , but with honor , with warriors that gave their lifes for the cause they supported , this jars have the highest of honor and sainthood is that honor they earn or the peacefull treatment they get from the potentate , I think they were made in the image of what they should have been and never were originaly , and so the rol of the potentate is not the torturer who has to shake away thoughts of remorse , but a gentle soul , with soft hands that brings comfort and protection , it might be too hopefull but Alexander was what Marika hoped for her people , and the potentate (Dialos is the only one we know) who she wishes took care of them and how she wish they were treated , as a goddes , it wouldn't be weird to think she made it selfishly
I really think it is more of a "punishment"; a way to try and cleanse people who have sinned by melding with the shamans. Mainly because we find most jars in gaols. What else should be put in gaols? Prisoners. Or they put the shamans in gaols to punish them for something, that the shamans are the prisoners and will "become saints" (become good essentially) by being punished.
@@Hauntedundead I think the first idea is right. The shaman with their unique ability to meld harmoniously with other flesh allows the hornsent to mix together a bunch of criminals in jars to create ‘saints’
Maybe if Radahn was charmed by Miquella, his holding back the stars for Ranni's fate would actually serve as a final act of defiance to Miquella. Tying his death to Ranni's godhood means that Miquella couldn't go through with his plan without opening the path for his only other "competitor" to bring in her Age of Stars.
Could also be that he held back the stars to halt his own fate of becoming Miquella's consort. Fate being held back may have been what prevented Miquella from completing his objectives as well.
You guys are forgetting that Miquella also needed to and did abandon his "Fate" to become a god. Maybe Rahdan was hold back Miquella's fate in order for him to do what he wanted. Rahdan could also have been holding back Ranni's fate so that she couldn't interfere with Miquella's plan until it was ready, since she was a competiting empyrean
And the great thing about the Age of Star ending is that you don't plunge the world into darkness. You just take away their leadership (guidance of light). This is the reason why Ranni and the Tarnished went on a 1000-year voyage. So you can't influence people by your presence. Therefore, the people themselves make their own world in a sense.
Can we all appreciate that our boy Radahn, after so many years spent admiring and emulating Godfrey, now resembles him uncannily in this final fight? Miquella, with his arms wrapped around Radahn, looks like Serosh clasping onto Godfrey. He's found the perfect cosplay.
One of the most haunting moments in this game/clear indicators that Miquella the kind may be more villainous was finding his cross in the Coffin Fissure. “Here I Abandon My Love”. Genuinely chilling words to receive from the Lord of Kindness
@@eliwoodnguyen1505 IDK about that. Love can drive you to do insane, maddening things. People murder easily for love, for not being loved, and for loving something else. Even being a compassionate person about things can do alot of evil things. You can be passionate about racism, famine, war, etc. Kindness would prolly be the hardest thing to contort to a evil issue. But is prolly still not inpenatrable but less likely then compassion, or love.
Yeah I find that super chilling as well. The more we learn of Miquella, the harder it becomes to see him in the original light he was painted as. Which also makes sense because when his charm was broken, we begin to see the extent at which his manipulation effected the world. It's possible most of what we heard about Miquella's character was obscured by his charms up until this DLC where he comes across far more manipulative and self-serving. Makes me rethink those dedicated to him, like was Malenia truly willing to go to the extent she did to end Radahn for Miquella's plan? Or was she herself charmed into going so far? I think Fromsoft did a stellar job implying both perspectives of Miquella's character being good and evil, leaving doubt to exist in regards to him and the characters around him. Really begins to muddy the water of how black and white Miquella's cause and the love held for him was. Top-tier story telling in that regard.
Idk what yo trying to say here. I dont talk about 2 sides of a coin. I say cant grow kindness/compassion without love. U have to love sth to be kind to it
Considering that Miquella kept his vow to Radahn, even in his death after abandoning everything. I would think he would keep his vows to his allies. After the charm wore off they still have much faith in him, even hornsent who is betrayed by Leda.
Isn’t it crazy that love was such a big part of Miquella’s being that when discarded, it became a whole separate entity. Miquella really was nothing but pure ambition and aspirations by the end
I think his main title being "Miquella the Kind" is so interesting because within the lore, the majority of his kindness is through the form of Saint Trina. There are some notes about things like his gift exchange and desire to cure Malenia, but in retrospect those likely only existed to further his accession into godhood. So his kindness was simply a front from which he manipulated those around him. Honestly with that level of arrogance and a very literal god complex I think his age might have been the cruelest ending aside from Frenzy if it were to come true, "nothing is more terrifying".
The Frenzied Flame ending isn't really "cruel" imo. The whole idea of that ending is to purge everything in order to, ultimately, be free of the erdtree. I mean, yeah, it kills... everything, and there's implications of suffering, but it's a universal reset button. Think, like... The Halo Array in Halo. Kill everything, so that something else can survive eventually. Edit: From the wiki: ""As explained by the Three Fingers through Hyetta at the end of her quest, this ending sees the Tarnished take up the mantle of the Lord of Chaos, and tasked with burning the world, along with the mistakes of the Greater Will - all existing sin, torment, fracture, and curse - to unite everything and everyone much like the crucible which existed before time."" All things considered, and is usually the case with FromSoftware... The ending that sounds the most evil on the surface is, ultimately, probably one of the better outcomes.
Something I like about Melina being the younger sibling of Messmer is that they are essentially both used to burn down the blockage to their respective gods. Melina burns the impenetrable thorns to the erdtree and Messmers kindling burns the shadow tree blocking access to Miquella.
@@dustinbowersock1042 true, but still prior footage suggested that at some point miquella would lift the veil over the land, sadly in game this never ended up happening
It makes a lot of sense why the ancestral shamans were left alone now. Most other societies in the lands between got atomized, but the golden order leaves them alone. Marika was reminded too much of her people
Thats such a good catch! The Nox, the ancient dragons, the Giants and even the Carians (to an extent) were subject to a purge. Yet the shamanistic society of the Ancestors remain.
Not really. Iirc the Nox were punished by GW directly. Not Marika. The dragons attacked the Erdtree and eventually they made peace. Liurnia and Limgrave were wars of subjugation and Liurnia has a fair bit of independence after the war. The only on3s she sought to wipe out were the Giants and I believe it's due to the Fell God being one of the few threats to the erdtree. Fire seems to be their greatest weakness. I'm pretty sure every religious group is tolerated in GO as long as you aren't a FF, Fell giant worshipper or an Omen
@@desuordie4856 true that the giants are the only ones that marika sought to wipe out entirely, but all of the other civilizations, the golden order only stopped warring with them once they assimilated them. Golden order fundamentalism and "all things can be conjoined" ive always seen as cope and hidden speak for "well we wanted to wipe them out but we couldnt and we brought their practices that we could tolerate into our order. Even with that being the case, the shamans remain both ungenocided AND unassimilated with the golden order so i think what the original comment said is true. Possibly they reminded her too much of where she came from and she felt for them, or maybe they just never actually did present any sort of threat to the golden order so they got to chilll.
Finding Marika's birthplace was the saddest moment in this game for me. That small location taught me more about Marika than every other piece of lore.
I'm speculating that Radahn arrested the movement of stars and endured the Scarlet Rot because he didn't want to take part of his vow as a King Consort.
I'm somewhat on the same side of this theory but mine goes a little deeper, I don't think he ever actually made the vow, I think miquella simply imposed his will on radahn, even the cutscene implies radahn doesn't have a choice in the matter, it wasn't a request but a demand imo.
@@kahlebhowarth-jennings9688 It's a bit mor complicated. Radahn has made a vow together with Miquella (and presumably also Malenia), but then his actions proved he had other intentions. There are a few theories on his motives. My personal theory is that he made a vow, but it was a lie. I think he was scheming.
no meme, I think the addition of the "recent items" tab was the single most important new feature to make the story more understandable. I really like the strives that Fromsoft took with this release to make storytelling a little more of a feature without shoving it in your face, still letting you explore and piece together the world on your own. but the recent items tab was such a huge game-changer. EVERY time i got a new crafting material or book or weapon or armor piece, I would press escape and immediately read its lore entry. so accessible and easy to do, to the point where I had a pretty good understanding of the different areas and the story going on in the background. they absolutely nailed it with this dlc.
Idk why but we tried to find the hightlighted Items for the dlc and they where never markt like the tutorial in the beginning showed. But I also read all the item descriptions myself this time. Just to come here and get them puzzled together infront of me :D
i agree completely and i wish so badly that every fromsoft game to date had this feature. it suits their storytelling style so so well and i can only imagine how much more engaging and immersive a first playthough of bloodborne/ds3/etc. wouldve been with a recent items tab (although the loading screens in those games served a similar purpose but weren't as effective)
Honestly one of my favorite features! Adds soooo much to the game with such a little change. I too would immediately read the entire description if all the new stuff I pick up
The Albinaurics got such a raw deal. The alchemy of their creation stolen from the buried Nox, birthed to be expendable troops in Marika's wars against the Hornsent and the Carians. And then utterly abandoned when they were no longer useful, rounded up to be tortured by Rykard or hunted down by vengeful mages. Even the ones who sought out salvation from Miquella never made it to the Haligtree. The only person who took them in, it seems, was Mogh.
Makes one wonder if Jerren would still go through with the Radahn Festival if someone told him mercy-killing his old general meant the big guy would just be revived as another demigod's brainwashed lackey.
@shadowdahuman I feel like it would be a divisive development among the rest of the Redmane forces, to say the least. And sure, to Freya it probably sounds good, but I think she already forgot about Miquella's "peace and love" endgame, as well as what happened to Godfrey when he ran out of things to conquer for Marika. Miquella may not be so cruel as to exile Radahn, but still, there *will* come a time when the fighting is over. When that time comes, will Miquella then honor Radahn's wish back when he had a brain to let him die in battle, or just shut him down like a Fazbear animatronic and keep him in storage? That much is uncertain, far as I know.
Interestingly, if you follow Sellen's questline and decide to defend her against Jerren, you will get the text "Bloody Finger slain". This was always a very weird detail, but makes a whole lot more sense now: Jerren is actually in service to Mohg. Bringing Champions over to kill Radahn in 'glorious' battle..
If the Hornsent worshipped the Crucible, then the melding of people inside jars was probably seen as one way to reach divinity because the Crucible was the source of all life, melded together.
One of the spirits near the Bonny Village says as much. Something along the lines that the shaman's will be purified or made divine once they get jarred.
Yes, though even by their standards this method was seen as a punishment (Given what we see in Belurat Gaol), a means of attempting to force divinity from materials they didn't otherwise desire.
Love that this basically means the player character is seeing someone who's trying to create a new, better future (albiet through very questionable means) and going "Yea nah mate i'm in charge here. Bugger off."
Shaman flesh melding easily with other flesh honestly explains a LOT: Why Marika and Radagon are a single being How Rykard was able to merge with the Great Serpent Why Outer Gods like the Outer God of Rot or the Formless Mother are easily capable of possessing demi-gods with their own physical essence And it may even explain why Godwyn’s corpse is so effed up Edit: Can’t believe I didn’t even think about Godrick’s grafting. Plus there’s Mohg administering his blood to his followers and why it physically effed up Miquella’s body in the cocoon
I absolutely loved how much the DLC fleshed things out. Marikas origin story is genuinely incredibly tragic. The Hornsent prosecuted and genocided Marikas people for being berefit of the blessing/curse of the Crucible. And they did it in the most brutal way imaginable. In the trailer you can see Marika herself seems to have tooth whip scars in her hand, indicating that she herself experienced Hornsent abuse and torture. All of this reveals exacly why Marika truly despises Omens (The DLC also reveals that Omens are a curse from the Hornsent), or any creature possessing horns for the matter. And also how she handles death which stems from her trauma from losing everyone and everything in the past.
People were dissapointed with the lack of outer god reveals (I definitely wanted to fight one lol), but in the place of that it felt like we really got to know and understand the main characters of Elden Ring's story and those revelations were incredible and felt extremely personal.
I love how it made Marika's actions so much more sympathetic. Not justifiable, not right, but sympathetic. She has become a much more complex character
When you think about it, it makes a twisted amount of sense as to there seems to be so many spirits of people and creatures in the Land of Shadow and why Marika removed the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring; It's to prevent anyone in the Land of Shadow from dying and thus, Messmer's crusade never ends. Marika hates the Hornsent so much that she didn't simply want them to die, she wanted them to suffer for all eternity, turning the Land of Shadow, their own homeland, into hell where the crusaders can brutalize, scorch and impale its denizens even when they've long passed into nothing but spirits, all the while Messmer's Shadow Keep looms over the land like Barad-dûr from Lord of the Rings and the Scadutree stands tall and mighty as the Erdtree's shadow, a constant reminder that the Hornsent are condemned to an eternity of brutality under Messmer's rule without even the benefit of an afterlife. Since every hell needs a devil, Marika chose her son Messmer to fulfill that role. On a related note, the design of the furnace golems seems to be a sort of twisted karmic retribution towards the Hornsent approved by Messmer and Marika. The shamans were mutilated, then stuffed into jars to become saints by the Hornsent so in response, Marika orders her son Messmer to wage a brutal, genocidal war against the Land of Shadow with his most prominent war machine being the massive furnace golems where Hornsent themselves are stuffed inside to serve as fuel for the machine as it marches over the land as an instrument of terror, destruction and mockery with its horned mask of the fell god of fire the Hornsent so feared.
I dont know dude, i think Marika send Messmer on the crusade to kill the Hornsent but also to keep Mesmer in there also, to get 2 people in. Marika didnt like golden order and Mesmer would have killed here if he foudn that out.
I really like your thinking here. I may just have to take that into my own headcanon as well. Death not being good enough, but eternal, everlasting suffering. I always just assumed Marika abandoned Mesmer because she wanted to keep her dirty secret hidden, but this interpretation just works on so many levels.
Knowing Melina is not only directly Marika's daughter, but most likely the bastard duo with her elder brother makes her actions and make so much sense. She probably knows the exact extent that Marika suffered and seeing her mother essentially spiral into the habits of her tormentors and even abandon her older brother could have made her one of the most vengeful and wicked of the demi-gods, but instead she works to correct her mothers wrongs and try and carry on with something new.
It may also explain her particular animosity towards the flame of frenzy. She has a rough lot, but she probably carries some pride for never falling to frenzy.
The one thing that tripped me up so fucking much was finding *yet another god damn fish face* of Godwyn. Seriously, his story is so incredibly untold. He seems to be just a plot device, the literal Golden Child that Marika always wanted and finally got, not war-crazed like Radahn, no Empyrean stuff like Ranni or Miquella, no rot, no fire or snake or fire-snake of any kind, no omen curse, just an (apparently) swell and healthy guy. And then he was murked by the Black-Knives (on Ranni's order) and became this tool to usher in the Age of the Duskborn. Elden Ring not getting another DLC as per FromSoft is frustrating in so far that not only would it offer *another* batch of insane content but now that the first one has answered so many questions, a second one could be exploring more alternatives, like how the different endings of the original did.
@@yusufcanl5373 she is the other half of Miquella, if he dies, she dies too. She can’t thank you. After you kill Miquella and go back to her. You find her dead on the ground and can loot her lily as a helmet
@TorSmawbs Yes there is??? Miquella abandoned his ability to feel love in that area, and this came from st. Trina, so she physically separated from him
I just want to point out that ”Shaman Village” is kind of a funky translation. The original Japanese one is called 巫女の村. "Miko" being a shinto shrine maiden. Mikos are women exclusively, and they are from the shinto religion. They are women who assist in the work of priesthood. So this might be an important hint as to what their "divine role" is in the context of the game. Since they are technically "assisting" by becoming jars.
It is not that funky. Both deal with spirtis, I don't know what word they would be used instead. And the culture is pretty influenced by European societies. I think they did think about druids or shamans in the conception, and the word used in japanese was the most similar in japanese
I don't speak Japanese but do speak Chinese so take this with a grain of salt, but I believe 巫女 can also refer to shamanic women in certain contexts of old Japanese history involving the Emishi or Ainu before Shinto was heavily influenced by Buddhism.
@@thanosmat I think the issue lies in the ambiguity of the name "Shaman". At 9:37 Vaati proposes the possibility of the village being a matriarchal society, but then states that this is speculation. In this case, there is no need to speculate. It is explicitly stated in Japanese. 巫女 leaves no room for interpretation, due to the nature of how kanji works. The "shamans" are exclusively women in this case.
I find that, of all the possible endings I've seen, Ranni's seems most noble. Several of the endings are destructive or just overall could be considered to be bad endings. Miquella wanted to save everyone out of a genuine desire for people to live without suffering or hate or pain, but to do so required a complete loss of agency for everyone, not to mention trapping himself in divinity. Ranni, on the other hand, was sort of wanting to make things how they were before the Greater Will ever brought its influence to the Lands Between. She wants divinity to divest itself from the world and be unreachable, while simultaneously becoming unable to influence anything in any meaningful way. She is also technically sacrificing herself to achieve this, but it comes without subjugation. Her solution simply means that divine power will no longer hold sway over the Lands and that it can become something new outside of the influence of gods. With the fingers dead, the ring shattered, the primordial beings which fell from the stars dead, and all the demigods dead (and death restored ????), there is nothing left besides the tarnished and Ranni herself who could hold terrible power over the fate of the Lands. And she does the most responsible thing with that power and locks it away where it cannot harm or be harmed.
You just learned that characters words and actions, just like in real life, can be different or contradictory. And we don't know very much about Ranni specifically and know nothing of her true intentions. Do you assume she's incapable of lying?😂
@@ohnoslomo This is an exceedingly dull response. "Or maybe it's all a lie!" for no reason other than it's impossible to prove otherwise. Great contribution, the conversation is soundly ended, thanks.
The revelations about Marika and the Shaman Village are so tragic, but beautiful. And it explains a TON of her intentions and rebellion against the Greater Will in the base game. Amazing storytelling
@@SIGNOR-G Marika made sure that the Golden Order won't be restored after the Shattering. Sent away the Tarnished and Godfrey, to make them stronger while the Lands Between lived in a relatively peaceful era of Radagon; locked the Blacksmith in the Roundtable, and gave him a task to create a God-slaying weapon for the Tarnished. prepared the resurrection of the Tarnished; created Melina to guide one champion, who can be trusted to slay God, the Elden Beast. And it worked. No mind control required. The plan looks unstable, but the sealing of Destined Death removes the luck factor from this equation.
@@UnholyWrath3277 ah this one point is what i wanted to know. With all this stuff about the fingers controlling destiny i was getting confused. Of course the only actor that doesnt have to follow the script is the strongest one.
@@your_neko Hence why I feel so sorry for her, clearly she discovered she was being used by the greater will and/or she felt great regret for what her order had done Do you think she assisted ranni with the night of the black knives?
The Shaman Village has become one of my favorite locations in any Fromsoft game. Walking in to hear that iconic Marika harp had me freeze up before picking up the minor erdtree incantation and just sitting there for several minutes after reading its description. (And then going on to repeat that process when I found the Golden Braid 😭)
@@mt2r-music Golden Braid. Its basically the +3 holy damage negation talisman. Saved my ass from getting oneshot by the final boss' insane AOE. Its in a dead tree in the village
I was wondering what Erdtree-aera tree sentinels were doing there. I knew it was an important location when I entered and found no enemies. Then the harp. That might have been the most memorable moment of my original playthrough.
To me, Marika betraying the hornsent seems less like a falling out between equals, and more like a slaveowner talking about a rebelling slave, trying to make themselves look like the victim. The whips also evoke that imagery.
The problem is that it's Leda saying those words, quoted apparently from Miquella. I think it's likelier that the 'seduction' involved Marika gaining power from Metyr and the Elden Beast, and used it to either ingratiate herself to the Hornsent to steal their secret rite, or to present herself as the potential god they've been trying to create for so long, only to immediately turn on them the moment she ascended. Either scenario would work as a betrayal even from outside of the Hornsent's perspective.
I mean, the game also refers to an "original sin" committed by Marika, and the braid description implies she had something to confess to the Grandmother. The massacre of the hornsent itself doesn't seem like it would qualify, there's no indication that the genocide of the giants was a sin or that anyone felt any guilt about it. Some sort of deal was struck, and the details were something that Marika found uniquely shameful.
I think she married their Lord and killed them before going genocidal, but ultimately it doesn't matter. Ascending into Godhood means you found a husband in Elden Ring. Specifically, that husband needs to be the Lord.
@@arditlika9388 I don't think she needed a lord to ascend to godhood. She only decided to marry Godfrey cos she needed a lord to hold back the greater will's influence a bit.
I just noticed something... the place likely with the greatest diversity of flowers and plants is the village of the jars. I always assumed that either the potentates or the jars themselves had planted them. But now I'm wondering if Queen Marika didn't cultivate such a rich portion of flora, in order to grant the jars a small semblance of peace from her home. That connection is thread bare at best, and the flowers don't even look like that field- but it's just an idea I had.
The real hook with the flowers in the shaman village is that they seem to be the same ones that the festival participants in the Windmill Village (in base game northern Altus) wear. Possibly, that old festival is a tradition from Marika's old home, and that's why it's "tolerated" (As the festive grease description puts it). Perhaps it's even some sort of retelling (or even continuation) of what the hornsent did with the shamans, given that the festival garb descriptions note that young maidens are the centerpiece, and everyone seems to be wielding various cutting implements.
Dude... that's a pretty solid connection. We know the Godskin Apostles have something to do with all that. That gives a VERY loose idea, but I like the idea you had about it having connections, I wonder if the Gloam Eyed Queen, since she was an enemy of her, would use that ritual, almost as a mockery of Marika (assuming she was privy to such information, but that's a BIG assumption). At first I shot my idea down, because they are so close to the capital, but then I thought, "Uh yeah... and so is a damn godskinner next to the windmill..." that's not a left over festival from the good ol' days- those trick-or-treaters from hell moved in recently. Thank you for your input man- that got my brain juices flowing. May be a silly idea on my part, but it's fun to think about. I would have never made that connection about the festival flowers. Good eye!
@@blackmonishi wish i had a better sense of how the dividing of scadu altus from the altus plateu worked. Cuz that would have to do with how these things were split apart from each other. Is the shadow realm just the giant missing chunk between all the continents in the base game?
@BackwardsPancake the inhabitants of dominula dance around stakes adorned with flowers, if they are recounting anything they probably recounting messmer mass impaling, as if they are dancing around their enemies impaled corpse.
I don’t think Marika’s betrayal demands an inclusion within Hornsent culture. Of course they’d think a shaman turning against them is a betrayal because they quite literally think the shamans belong to them - belong to their religious authority. It’s just like how a slave master might call a slave uprising a betrayal.
I just thought the same 5 minutes ago replying to another comment, and this has been shown dozens of times already in multiples forms of medias like movies and series, where rebellion against the boss/owner/king is a betrayal by those that rank lower than them
I might agree if it weren't for the fact Marika obviously felt guilty about *something* she left behind here. All that talk of "original sin" and so on.
@@Brasswatchman where do you get guilt from? When the original sin is discussed it’s never from Marika’s perspective - we have no reason to believe she considers it a sin
I was just doing the quest in Jarburg and noticed that there are flowers of every color there, just like in Shaman Village - From are so good with the tiny details.
And unlike the jars in the DLC, these are used to collect the bodies of warriors and are taken to the erdtrees so that the souls can be guided. Even these jars have an erdtree symbol on their lids.
@@JoaoCarlos-cc3zoisnt it interesting how the jars in base game is seen as burial and in the land of shadow it's a punishment to be feared and was a treatment worst then death
St. Trina's divested voice was just chilling. The director and voice actor of that particular v/o nailed it. Speaking of voices, I think the COVID voice gave you a Clint Eastwood sorta tone. Amazing video as always.
I love how Messmer says "In the embrace of Messmer's flame." He sounds like he's just so fed up and tired with doing this thankless duty. Mind also that it intentianally sounds like he's just reading of a script. Compare it with his other lines and they are much more filled with emotion.
