Louise Perry vs Mary Harrington on the ethics of designer babies | SpectatorTV 

Maybe we have no choice other than to take the bad with the good.

All sorts of horrible frightfulness.

I don’t think those who push that agenda want the population to be more intelligent… Because any smart person can foresee the potential disasters ahead, and the losses, and wastes we may never be able to recover from. It’s not in their interest that the population is intelligent enough to ask questions, challenges, speak and potentially oppose. They want brainless drones.

Amen!

Your "lining up your children" analogy is very unconvincing, although perhaps that's because I don't consider embryos to be people? But your point about the psychology of birth order, after embryo screening, is interesting. In practice the difference in 'desirability' between number 1 and, say, number 5 may be very low. It may be that some couples prefer to 'play with the ordering'. For example, they may decide that the older they get, the less effective they'd be at handling any problems their children have, so save number 1 until last. Other couples might want to pick the number of children they're likely to want, in advance, and then randomise the order. Most couples would probably happily commit to keeping it permanently a secret, whether they did or did not do anything along the above lines. I guess this would just become the societal norm. There are various mitigations available. But it's definitely something to think about.

I wonder what would have happened if all eugenics were voluntary.

@@skylinefever Trouble is if it was voluntary it would involve other people, legislation, committees, institutions and then it would be promoted. The question of whether it was moral would then be entirely a private concern. In Canada Maid is advised and people, especially the young, the old or the infirm are prone to suggestion.

@@vonroretz3307 The USA then does the opposite, and anyone who wants to shuffle off the mortal coil early will be 1. Arrested 2. Hospitalized 3. Billed for their own hospital imprisonment. This is why I joke about what a mess te system is. I say free market Futurama phone booths.

Heaven help us new world.

The world has too many epsilons breeding like rabbits.

@SA-vz7qi As someone who is diagnosed with ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia & Irlen Syndrome & my child with Autism ADHD Dyslexia & Dyspraxia & now knowing about the genetic links, yes I would edit out these genes.

And also, ww would start using it to enhance beauty, eye Color intelligence. Etc.

no gene for adhd 😂

@ tinootnoot2725 If you can't keep up, it is OK to sit out the conversation.

Everyone has something these days.

Would you prefer Idiocracy?

'So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth"' (Genesis 1:27-28).

@@jonathandnicholson The Bible has been rewritten edited & books removed over the centuries by various religions taking their own slant on the Bible.The simplistic response of just putting up this quotation is not useful in a debate over serious genetic defects, illnesses & life limiting diseases that will cause untold pain, suffering & distress to a child born with them. Try giving birth multiple, multiple times, risking your life each time, women & babies still die in childbirth, suffering inhumane pain, sometimes debilitating birthing injuries, women who suffer post natal depression if untreated can turn into psychosis, these are the Realities of Child Birth, a man will never experience any of this, so spare me your sanctimonious statement.

@@BibiBitesBack Compassion is suffering with. Also, I believe ''So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth"' (Genesis 1:27-28). If you have a problem with that, well, that is your problem. If you believe those verses are an inaccurate translation what should the translation be? If you believe that is false what is the Truth?

@@jonathandnicholson The New Testament was studied extensively at the Catholic Covent Girls School I attended, the Old Testament secondary to followers of Christ, the Old Testament is acknowledged to have books removed, differences over translations & interpretations.You are hiding behind & using a passage that no one can categorically say is absolutely the Truth.The reality I put to you on the real risks & effects of childbirth you just chose to ignore, not much compassion shown eh. If you choose to believe like a child ignorant of medical & scientific facts, that is your choice.I am not atheist but I am not a believer in the Creation Story because it is at odds with our history, DNA & the evolution of the human race.We are here to learn & grow in knowledge that shouldn't be seen as threat to faith or a belief in God...

@@BibiBitesBack Read Saint Thomas Aquinas and tell me if the t'science is the whole of Truth or if science tells us about the material. I believe if science and scripture do not match then one or both are incorrect. Perhaps that you are reading either or both incorrectly. Truth is the word of God and truth is fact and meaning. Christianity falls or stands on the resurrection not whether the universe in six days with rest on the seventh. Anyway, with rest, the universe was created completely in a complete amount of time. Jordan Peterson said that seven days meant creation did not happen instantaneously. I do not know if Peterson's view is correct, but its possible you are missing the point because Peterson's point does make some sense. What is the saying about Rome? Ah, yes: Rome was not built in a day. Light is an interesting thing for day one. Presence as darkness is absence (in physics). What does that mean? Catholics in the past believed in an earth-centred universe. That does not mean we do not rotate around the sun, but that earth is the moral centre of the universe. Secondly, I wrote that compassion is suffering with. Jesus Christ on the cross is ultimate compassion because He was suffering the consequences of the Fall. We have put Jesus Christ on that cross, but He gladly did to suffer with us. Aborting someone because of a medical problem is not compassion because you are not suffering with. You would also be ending life for a bad, unjust and wrong reason. God is good. God is just. God is righteous. To will the good (the Biblical good and you can start with creation and existence) of the other as other for their sake is love. Hate is willing evil upon the other (we can start with injustice and injustice is giving that which he does not deserve). Whilst justice is a higher value than life, justice is retributive: for the act of doing the immoral with the intent to do the immoral. What happened to "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do"? When did God the Father, Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit say "Forgive them father for they know not what they do, but those with medical problems should be killed off" or anything like? Seems to me the Gospels would contradict that latter message and, more to the point, medical illness is not immoral. Saint Paul wrote: knowledge without love is pointless. Think about: '"The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself"' (Ezekiel 18:20) too. Also, try reading the full Bible, the Vulgate Bible which the Book of Tobit etc was not taken out. I believe that we are to take the Bible as a whole, old and new testament. When did Christianity become a salad bar of choosing x over y rather than taking x and y.

It’s a nightmare.

Because none of that can be monetised. Transhumanism is coming and it's going to be making some people a lot of money

@mihaelatudor I have never drank alcohol, smoked or taken drugs, I only put on 1stone in pregnancy, I exercised through my pregnancy & ate a Mediterranean diet.I was the picture of health & my baby was a perfect weight & very, very healthy.However they inherited the genes for Autism ADHD Dyslexia & Dyspraxia & where diagnosed in childhood, Bi Polar Disorder 3 generations of my family including 2 of my siblings are diagnosed with this, I fortunately am not, but my now adult child has a diagnosis of MDD.Unfortunely thus far we cannot control what genes we might inherit.

I was thinking of really deep research into why, all of a sudden, such genetic defects appear. I mean, in my living collective memory (covering 120 years if I include my parents and grandparents), it only very recently that we are seeing an epidemic of genetic disorders !?!?

@@mihaelatudor2417 The primary reason most likely lack of knowledge, understanding & so diagnosis.If I look over the same time period in my family I see the Dyslexia in my Father & his family, them me, then my child, Autism clearly in 1 of my siblings, Bi Polar disorder in several individuals over several generations but formal diagnosis only occurred in my generation.My mother, her mother & several of her mother's sisters & even female cousins where diagnoised with Alzheimers.I firmly believed for decades their must be a genetic link, just recently the findings that show such a genetic form of Alzheimers have been confirmed.Seems we can never run away from our DNA, well not so far anyway!!

​@@mihaelatudor2417 One reason for an increase in genetic disorders is explained from 10:04 to 10:57.

Doesn't it select by who survives and has offspring.

@@freebornjohn2687 Large scale infectious disease outbreaks

The industrial revolution and it's consequences.

Thankfully! Nature is horrible. Civilization is much more ... civilized.

Every election is "historic" apparently. How many times before we realize that it's never historic?

Your special needs kids are wonderful to you. What do you to to make life good for those who hate every single day of the special needs life?

Could freeing "women from the burden of motherhood", by outsourcing the "burden" to artificial uteruses, lead to children who will lack something psychologically and physically, as a result of the absence of the maternal bond that comes with the growth of a child in the womb? Many times the trials that we seek to unburden ourselves from are necessary for our development and the development of others.

​@@alphacausejust because mech wombs exist may not mean people will automatically use them.

@@skylinefever Never underestimate people's willingness to take the easy way out when achieving an objective. Just look at how many people, when given the choice to walk to a location that is a mere half a mile away, would choose to take a car, when given the option, verses doing the more healthy thing and simply walking that short distance.

@@alphacause I don't disagree that a large number will take it. Good thing there will be a certain number of people so motivated by the upsides of natural kids, they'll take it.