Machine Shop Basics: Selecting Dial Indicators for the Machine Shop 

I am completely green. This is EXACTLY what I needed. Thank you.

Thank you Keith, your videos are extremely helpful for a beginner. Excellent video and audio production also. Thanks again!!!

This video has come in just the right time. All the stuff I do is just hobby. I've been using a square as a indicator. I had a bunch of runout on my drill press and when I see that the square was flush with the chuck, I called it square. Now I'm looking at indicators. Thanks Keith for the video.

As my father in law used to say, "Costs a little more, but I believe it's worth it." I think that applies here, for sure. Thanks for sharing, Keith.

Nice refresher. In a beginner's video one might add that a DTI is a purely relative device. It measures the displacement of the plunger or finger, which has to be set by contact. That's why the dials can be rotated, you set zero where you want to start measuring. The DTI is a rack-and-pinion amplified by (literally) clockwork, a gear train. Some of them are even jeweled, just like a mechanical watch. Eventually the gears and jewels get gunk in them and they go slowly. Time then to have it cleaned and lubed, like any other mechanical device.

Keith - Nice roundup. Maybe a followup how-to video on how to use an indicator to measure run out, and parallel-ism, of a work piece or machinery. Nothing too fancy, just quick and dirty. You probably could just go back to your video archives and grab a few minutes of various type of indicator work you have done, removing the original audio and dubbing in new commentary.

Keith, I really enjoy your videos! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience!!

i use a metric indicator even though i work with standard dimensions i find it keeps people from borrowing it since they cant read it.

Keith, Even though I have an idea of what I'm going to get in the way of indicators and holders, it's always helpful to have someone's take of what they use and why. Thanks for sharing your choice of indicators and why you use them. I always find your videos (as well as those of others) to have valuable nuggets of information. Thanks again, Keith! Have a good one! Dave

The Noga is my favorite machine shop tool. It is a lifesaver. I had one of those cheap articulating arms like you showed and it was beyond useless.

Thanks Keith for all the sharing you do. I enjoy the projects as well as the basics. If you did not benefit from a formal education in machining but just "picked it up along the way" the basics are always helpful to round out your knowledge. Good solid content presented as only you can do! Thanks! How's the shop coming??

I just bought my first dial indicator its a Starrett last word with the magnetic stand. Thanks for the video very helpful information.

very helpful. please consider similar content in other "basics" topic areas.

Hi, Keith, I have a '196' Starrett indicator set - very nice. Starrett uses a capital letter after the model number to indicate (pardon the pun) the actual set/part - in this case (another pun - English is like that..) you have a 196G, the dial indicator is a 196, without a letter. Another example is Starrett precision Screwdrivers; I have 3 (one in use, 2 back up) 551G screwdrivers - the 'G' says it is a #1 Phillip; other blades have other letters. The 551 says Starrett Precision Screwdriver. I work in a production environment and I am tightening up screws in the terminal of M12 Sensor Connectors - very tiny and fiddly - I obtained a set of S....y precision drivers and the particular Phillips No 1 lasted maybe 6 months and that was pushing it; my Starrett is going on 18 months, and while a tad worn, still performs like new. The S.....y set cost AU$13, while the single Starret was double that, so for twice the cost I have so far got 3 times the life, and it is performing well. Good vid, Keith, I love to see them - this one was particularly handy, and, yes, I have a Starrett 196G set, as well as a couple of Mitutoyo 2046S dial indicators from a previous workplace (Railroad sleeper/tie manufacturer): they ditch anything that has been damaged, as they are used in quality control, rather than fixing them I also have a Teclock (Japan) which still works OK, as well as a couple of Starrett Best Test indicators - old but part of my Collection.

Thanks Keith. I hadn't thought of looking for different indicator tips. I just did a task that required indicating a piece of allthread. A flat button tip would've been handy. Thanks, John

Good coverage of indicators. Useful. When I started out in the toolroom of a family business (cold heading) my grandfather fitted me out with a basic set of tools. The indicator he chose for me was the Starrett back-plunge indicator, with the set of adapters and accessories (in the nice red Starrett box). I never went on to make a career in machining, but I still have that set. For a long time it was my only indicator. BTW, you might mention that even though the graduations are in 1/1000ths, you can read indicators like this (and the other 1/1000ths indicators you showed) to 1/2 a thousandth easily, and be pretty close to a quarter or third of a thousandth. For centering in a 4-jaw, the quiver of the needle will let you get centered to a couple of tenths - always assuming that your indicator holder will hold it steady enough. Excellent advice on getting a Noga or other high-quality holder, especially with the lower quality indicators which usually have a stronger return spring to make up for the slightly less free-running mechanisms in those indicators.

Since I ordered a (infamous) mini lathe, you gave me the exact answers I was looking for :) Thanks.

I'm an auto tech that discovered machining thanks to you tube. Thanks for this instructional video. Hop e you will make more along these lines as well as your usuals. It looks like Starrett is the Snap On of the machine world.

just a quick note for all my fellow newbies/ part timers.. metric indicators usually have a yellow dial face to help differentiate between metric and standard... and keiths right, buy the best you can afford, especially when it comes to measurment tools. that said Shars are good import ones, the difference comes in longetivity. very often the rack and pinion gear inside of them wears out VERY quickly. test it once a month with heavy use with some gauge blocks and a stand, and make sure you test a range of heights, indicators can and do wear out within ranges..

Thanks a lot for this rundown. I can definitely attest to how poorly a cheap indicator holder will work I ended up with two of those before I knew any better. A friend got a Noga, with a lathe he purchased. I'll ask to borrow it on my next project.

Good vid Keith.You do a great job explaining things to people that are just getting into metal and woodworking.

great video! this helps a lot. tooling up my shop slowly for machine work so I have been shopping for measuring instruments. perfect timing!

Hello Keith, Very interesting video and nice that you also showed a metric dial indicator for the outsiders like me. Even that I don't do much with a laid or that kind of things I maybe go buy also an dial indicator. Always handy for precision measurements with all kind of things. Again as always a good video and looking forward to the next one ! Many greetings from Roel !

Keith - Nice roundup. Maybe a followup how-to video on using an indicator to measure run out, and parallel-ism, of a work piece or machinery.

ATM, I'm debating buying a high resolution indicator and came across your video. Right now, my highest resolution indicator is a Starrett 25-611. Measures tenths. Like you, I also work on vintage machinery, but not at as high of a level. I have a Delta DP-220 drill press from 1941 in the shop. Actually there are four of them here, among others, but I digress. Tried out a number of chucks and settled on a keyless Rohm - less than a *tenth* TIR a half inch out. Remarkable. Have never seen anything like this before on a drill press with a chuck. The indicator that I'm looking at resolves in 0.00005" steps. The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that I'll have another opportunity to use it and it's not inexpensive. Decisions. Maybe I should just leave the machine as is and move on.

FWIW to others I use a standard dial indicator way more than any of the other styles. Sometimes I will use the last word style but it isn't real often. I find the dial indicator with the attachments like the hole indicating arm to be easier to use.

As my father used to say " we are not as rich to buy cheap tools" i couldn't understand that but 30 years later on the business...i did

Hi Keith Love you videos ! Just what to mention there is a Starrett Last Word indicator model # 711 that reads down to .0005.Keep them coming love your new shop!

THANK YOU and appreciate the time you took to show the basic...time to get busy:)

I teach high school machine shop and I agree on buying import indicators. I also purchase import calipers and micrometers for the kids at school. Simply because these precision tools are basically disposable with students. And it makes little difference weather they drop a Starrett dial caliper or an Enco. Once it is dropped it is junk and I would rather throw out a $35.00 caliper rather than a $135.00 caliper. Thanks! Mike

Hi Kieth just a note about your mic cable. It is beginning to fail during certain movement ..when you lean forward to pick up the 670-B @20:00 There must be some fraying of conductors . These are delicate and small gauge but a bit of solder and some shrink tube etc and she'll be as good as new unless you have to deal with a plastic molding. Then you ought to buy a decent connector that may be soldered. Of course replacement may be more realistic. I have no recollection of you doing electronics ...

Enjoyed...agreed with the issue of the snake holder as I was excited to purchase (fowler) and learned it was junk, better off with the cheap standard post type with snugs if Noga is too expensive

Some testing from other youtubers shows the spring pressure isn't as consistent on imports compared to quality indicators. If it's mounted on a magnet that might actually mean it reads properly close to the extended travel but will slide the magnet and read incorrectly near the compressed state. If the part you're measuring is thin the deflection might matter too. So I think if you use an import indicator for say a travel indicator, a strong magnet is important.

I was very fortunate to buy a brand new Compac dial indicator a few years ago that reads in tenths and has a range of .200 inch. Sadly Compac only sells metric indicators now and even their sister brand Mercer has limited inch models. They really are the best on the market though.

Nice tips on indicators, especially the one on getting specialized tips. You answered one question I had on one of the hole attachements. I had one I got in an auction lot and didn't realize it was for use with a back plunger indicator instead of a normal indicator (which I couldn't figure out how it would work). I have more indicators than what one person would need in normal use, but some of the older ones are fun to collect, especially the ones with large faces.

Thanks Keith, still using all the metrology tools we traded for. I must say I've yet to use the test indicator, but she's packed in a safe place for the day my skills require such finesse. Happy New Year, Aloha...Chuck.

Great video. Thank you!

Terrific video. Great overview of the subject. Thanks!

Thanks Keith, most useful. I really like these basic videos!

Great video. By pure chance, I happen to own most of those, but I’m not a machinist and would love to see you actually use them for their intended purposes.

I've tried the Shars version of the Noga... Don't waste your money. Not even close. It works but you really have to crank it down to lock it up securely. In my opinion if you can't afford the Noga you're better off with the older style mechanical rod style (very cheap) and use the savings toward a Noga.

Got myself a nice Starrett Indicator (3025-481 10mm travel, seems like the same yellow one you have ) some days ago to complement my fathers old russian one from the early 80s (lots of his precision tools seems to be from there). After watching this i went to ebay uk / europe to find that hole attachment without any luck, got some more numbers on it? Anyways thx, i have for many years watched and listened to my father when he was doing machining works and learnt from him and somehow you and the others (Tom Lipton / Adam Booth) ignited the fun in machining and made me start using the machinery for real. So now i buy items that i find usefull item by item, so far i have above mentioned Indicator, mid size FaT Noga arm for the lathes and i also got a 100mm shellmill with those rectangular R390 inserts (as seen at BarZ / Stan) since most of our current ones uses old style triangular inserts, sadly i have not had the pleasure to test it out since the Iso40 / 32mm Arbor has not arrived yet. Once again tnx for the videos you make and i hope you find my not so good English not to painfull. Cheers from Sweden / Emil. PS i am thinking about making some videos myself, what would everyone likely prefer? Swedish with subtitles or half assed English speach or silence with subs?

Keith, please do a video on what metals to use. Say I wanted to make a gear for a bicycle for example, what type of steel would I choose? How would I go about choosing one from another? Another video that would be great would be a complete tour of the machine shop with a discussion of the minimum equipment one needs to set up a shop to do useful stuff. Thanks

Super helpful Keith! Thanks.

Great Video Sir, very good descriptions on types and uses!

thanks again for a very informative presentation one I need now. your timing is prefect

You just got a subscriber because you said English Units. I know you know what you're talking about.

Merry Christmas Keith a and happy new year very glad to see any of your videos carlos

Great informative video - Thanks. Could you also do a similar one on micrometers and calipers? Jack

Very precise indications! Thanx Keith!

Good Job. Thank You

Hello there KEITH RUCKER Esq Al the best for Your 2016 Nice intro to basic selection of these "clock Guages" - as they AKA !!! Well presented and like always - something we can garner good info from. Thanks a stack and keep 'em rolling aRM

Great video as usual mr Rucker. Really interesting and a good piece of useful knowledge. Now I need to spend some money on a dial indicator and a quality stand! :)

Thanks Keith, very good video for the beginer

Funny thing, the only micrometers I ever had give me a perfect "0" calibration at min and max were the Shars boxed set I bought on Ebay (0-7" for under $100) just to have a backup if something happened to one of my "good name brand" mics until I could replace it.

I use HG indicator stands mostly, I have few Nogas and I like them, but HG hydraulic stands are my go to brand. They are a bit more expensive than Noga, however the difference is minimal. As for indicators, in general I buy Mitutoyos and Tesa (brown & sharpe), never been disappointed so far, either with stands or indicators. 1 micron dials are around 130-150€, so as far as it goes for price - not a huge difference compared to Starrett or any other brand. It's just a matter of preference. I try to avoid Starrett myself, because I had some corrosion issues in the past, with several of their tools, but other than that, they seem to be just fine.

Keith FWIW years ago I bought a Central "snake" mount.... Paid allot of $$$$ for it & the thing is useless.... For years I used the old school rods & knuckles... They are okay, not great but okay..... I kept seeing Noga mounts & was impressed But me being me I cheaped out & tried a Chinoga.... Same deal... Junk... Bought my first Noga & haven't looked back....

I acquired an Interapid indicator, a name not as well known as Starrett or Mitutoyo, but a high quality indicator………pricey new, but deals can be found used. On the cheaper end of the scale, SPI comes to mind.

Great info....Appreciate the hard work....Jim

I had one of the cheapo knockoff holders. The magnet was fine but the tensioner had to be tightened so much that the pivot balls expanded the sockets and they popped out. JUNK! I have a Shars hydraulic that is much nicer but the center joint stays stiff after the balls release so it is a real pain to use. Then I bought the Noga. Wow.... that is how it is supposed to work! So I got a second one.

Although a woodworker and not a machinist, I use some precision tools mostly in calibrating my machines. I recently bought a Starrett indicator and a set of tips for it. I can’t unscrew the knurled tip on the end of. The plunger. I’m afraid to really crank on it. Is there a trick to getting it off?

No Interrapid's? Best indicator out there.

Nice and clear presentaion.

Want to get a Noga dial indicator holder. Which Noga model do you recommend to use on measuring the tightness of rear wheel bearings on automobiles?

"English units" is a great phrase. I know what you mean by it - but I can tell you we haven't a clue what units we use here in England! Technically everything is metric, except roads (miles and mph, with bridge clearances given in both feet and metres) but most people who work with their hands get used to using both. I understand a thousandth better than a micron; inches and mm I can work with either; I know a foot, but metres mean more to me than yards. I don't know what a kilometre is like, but a mile is fine. We're a confused nation. :-)

Hi am trying to measure the the outside of the tire ( threads side ) ,i saw a video using a bearing attached to the dial indicator ,do you know where i can find this attachment ? nice video

Who makes the monster indicator holder? Is that a NOGA?

What about an antique LUFKIN .0001 indicator??

Great review Keith. :)

I am looking for a rolling stand that moves 360° to set my magnetic base indicator on. It sits on 3 bearings and can placed on a plate with a race that allows the stand to roll around within the race. I've heard it being referred to as a "fireball" but can't find one. Does anyone know what I'm talking about/looking for?

Thanks for the nice video lesson, I bet the price of indicators on ebay just went up!

Great Video Keith !!! I am getting in a position to need a dial indicator to set my table saw blade to run paralell w/the mitre slot,but I cannot use anything with a magnetic base because both the mitre gauge and the cast iron table are ferrous metal,I need some help!!!

Nice vid Keith. One question that I had, could you use that cheap snake holder for different application? For example a flashlight holder. Or mount a magnet on the end for a small parts holder?

Keith, when you talk quality, what is the quality difference between a starrett vs shares. So part per part or parts makes a starrett better quality than x unit! Dont get me wrong I love starrett tools and are most of my hand tools. If you can define would be helpful to define quality understandings!

Thanks for video!

Keith-- On test indicators, do you prefer the style with the tip that can be moved to any angle, or the style that is set in the center? I only have the ones set in the center and don't really like them. Also, you mentioned tramming in the vise a bunch but I don't recall you mentioning tramming in the head much. I preferably you would use a rear-plunge button indicator?

Is there an industry standard indicator tip thread size? - Thanks

I too bought an indicator that locks up ok, but is let down by the fine adjust on the indicator mount. It flaps around and makes it useless. I have tried to buy Noga however the shipping to Aus' makes the final cost around $235 Australian. ! There are a few suppliers here but they are charging the same price. Very frustrating !

nice one Keith!

Does anyone make or use a digital dial indicator? Keep making these great vids!

I wonder if you could use that cheap indicator holder for a camera mount. I love my NOGA and have used it to hold a camera, but I would probably get a knock-off if I wanted a dedicated camera mount. Chris

It would have been nice to see the two types (plunger and lever) being used.

I have Pictures of a German Made 1900 Lathe , where can I Send this Pictures , Shop is located at Costa Rica Central America

Hi Keith, I'm a member of your site and OWWM as well. I've been wanting to get a dial indicator to check the arbor runout on my unisaw. I wrote down the Starrett model you have in the video. Low and behold, I bought one locally today on craigslist for $45. It's an older one with the L.S. Starrett logo. My only issue is the dial glass falls out and it doesn't always go back to zero. i can tighten the thumbscrew after i zero but sometimes the dial hand doesn't go return to zero. I can tap the front and then it will. Any thoughts ? Thanks, tommitytomtom

Good info thanks for making it.

Keith you really should mention the better resolution of metric indicators. 1/1000 inch = .025mm and the markings on a metric indicator are .01mm, better even than your indicator with half thousandth markings.

Hey Keith, very informative, Thanks for your videos.Happy New Year. Brian

Enjoyed the video

Love Ya Keith, but I must add that in my opinion a Starrett is a tool. A horrible freight dial indicator is a 10 dollar wannabe toy. I'll never buy another one. For my money, if it doesn't say Starrett or Browne and Sharpe, I probably wont buy it. I am tempted to try Shars as they seem to have an honorable reputation. You are a valuable asset to all us gear heads and antique freaks. THANK YOU !

In the beginning I had one indicator. A Last Word, along with a Federal 1" travel indicator. 30 something years later I got indicators and bases coming out of my ears. I watched this and am wondering, "what the heck happened?" Lol

thank you keith good info. bob

Hi Keith, great video! Have you had any experience using a Jam/shock proof indicator? I was playing with a Dorsey one at IMTS and was blown away.

great very informative HOW IS THE NEW SHOP?

i made the mistake of buying noga import copies twice. never again. utter garbage. i broke down and bought a small genuine noga and was blown away at the quality. best stand i own.

That Starret 25-341 indicator sounds really expensive compared to a comparable Mitutoyo. For example you can get 2044SB for about 50€ (approx. the same in US $).

good

hi keith hope all is well with you and your family

To echo others .. There are places where you can get by with lesser tools .. But NOT on tool holders .. Get the Noga !!

My dear sainted father told me that the only time that you spend too much is when you don't spend enough...I'm 75 and still remember his advice.

In past times American made ment something but that is not so any more I have found that lots of manufacturers build a reputation for quality only profits to ruin a once best built product is not so anymore or it depends where you buy it. In Canada you can buy tools with a reputation for quality than a company like Canadian tire will have a sale for half price you paid at a store that only deals with professional tradesmen. I'm here to say it's not the same tool there not made with the same parts..