Joey Votto belongs in. He has a career .412 OBP, which only trails Trout by 1 point. He's 3rd in WAR actively, only trailing Trout and Miguel Cabrera. Votto is tied for 2nd (with David Ortiz) in wRC+ since 2003, trailing only Trout. He should definitely be in. So should Paul Goldschmidt. Freddie Freeman should also make it in with another good year or two.
Joey Votto, 16 Yrs in the league, 11 of those years getting MVP/ROY votes and/or All-Star selections. 64 Career WAR, .926 OPS, why did you miss this Mad Dog?
His career numbers aren't what HOF voters look for. Barely over 2,000 hits and 342 homers. Great player, but voters don't care about peak years as much as career numbers.
@@scoutisabelle I hear you but in his case he HAS been the consistent player. One MVP yes, but votes for the award in most of his seasons. These others players have lower or similar career stats as you say. Never a single player before or after him in lineup that was better than he was. I agree with his list, I just would add Votto too
@@GeeWin5 I agree Votto is worthy and was one of the best players of his era. Better than many players on his list. Just saying, HOF voting history shows he won't likely be elected because of his lower career numbers. He might make it later on the Modern Era ballot like Fred McGriff did, or if he gets a huge push his last couple of years of eligibility like Larry Walker and Jim Rice got despite their lower career numbers. But Votto's historically great on-base percentage won't dazzle the voters as much as the other glamor stats, unfortunately.
The voters seem like fools at times. I agree with Mad dogs take on freeman being a HOF. And if you agree with that, you have to agree with Votto, as Votto has higher on base, higher slugging, and more Homer's, more rbis and more runs. All with same batting average. Their logic just seems very flawed at times
How in the world do you have Freddie Freeman above Paul Goldschmidt? Both are HOFer's but leaving Goldy off the list is egregious. Having Harper but leaving off guys like Arenado and Greinke is also wild.
@@Dave-oz8xe so does Roger Maris, Dale Murphy, and Juan Gonzalez and none of them will ever be in the Hall of Fame. Harper will be eventually but he has a few more productive seasons to go before he's a lock. Guys like Betts, Goldy, Arenado, Greinke and even Longoria have had productive enough careers to this point where they would be in the HOF conversation if they retired right now.
Freeman is so Overrated look at his stats especially power for first base he had many years without even 20 homers betts isn’t in yet and I say Harper is close he’s got a 920 ops that’s great and writes like obp and slugging I think if it wasn’t for injuries and covid season Bryce has close to 350 Homers now but either way he gets close to 500 or more plus he’s clutch especially winning lcs mvp and 2 times Nl mvp kershaw is the best of this generation he’s also better in post season then he gets credit he’s won and pitched lot of great games especially that World Series run and astros cheated him out of a World Series mvp
I hate the Astros, but Jose Altuve has 8 all star appearances and 1 MVP and led his team to 2 world series titles. I think he's in. He will have the stigma surrounding him but its also going to be around verlander.
Altuve was one of the best second baseman of the 2010s before the Astros ever started cheating. Now in 2023 he’s without a doubt the best second baseman of the last decade and a half and it’s not even remotely close
He's on pace for 3,000 hits too. Even if he doesn't reach that milestone, he's just as good or better as other recent HOF second basemen like Alomar, Biggio and Sandberg.
@@ericpantalone5229 sorry the oracle Eric has spoken and we are now humbled by your presence. First of all WAR is a joke (ask Jeff Kent). Kirby Puckett has a 51 WAR and played 12 years. He's the best second baseman of the decade and will be in the hall of Fame. Even if he died tomorrow (see Kirby Puckett).
Also, don’t get Russo’s fixation on DiMaggio. Trout has played the same number of seasons and many of his numbers are better (though the war stole some prime years from Joe). Even so, just looking at rate stats through same age season as Trout, Trout is better for his era than Joe was for his. Both are top 5-7 CF of all time with others like Mays, Mantle, Cobb, Speaker, Griffey, Snider in the discussion. Trout is definitely not overrated and saying so is ridiculous.
@@insideout1499 I didn't realize this was an individual sport. How silly of me to miss the fact that one generational hitter can single handedly force his team to the playoffs in the division that had the powerhouse Rangers (for his first few seasons) and then the powerhouse Astros, all without any pitchers. Or maybe, he has played his whole career with one of the worst run MLB teams instead of playing for the greatest franchise in sport history during arguably its absolute peak.
@@insideout1499 When people ask those type of questions I ask myself "Do they even watch Baseball?" It's really a below surface level question. Not even trying to diss you bro
If he's saying players who could retire today and will be Hall of Famers than Mookie and Harper will not make the cut as their stats just do not hold up, but being that both have about a decade or so left to play than yes I believe they will be first ballot should they continue to play the way they have been.
RBIs is such a team stat. If the players in front of a particular hitter don't do their jobs and get on base, he has no chance at all for an RBI...he's at the mercy of his teammates. Same with pitchers' W-L records.
@@alanfranciscobanos9968He doesn't have any of the cumulative benchmarks yet. Hits, homers, rbi, etc. His relatively short career, while very productive, doesn't quite measure up. He had a great shot to make it, just not there right now.
Agreed with both, they need 2 more seasons ... I like him but I wouldn't have Greinke in. Wouldn't shock me if he makes it eventually though. I don't think he should make it but I think Yadier Molina will get in one day too.
The only guaranteed HOFers to me are Trout, Miggy, JV, Scherzer, and Kershaw. Votto and Greinke are probably in for me too but not sure what the voters would say. Betts, Harper, Machado, Nolan, Goldy, Cole, Freddie are all on very clear HOF trajectories but not in if they retired today. Jansen, Kimbrel and Chapman could get in depending on view of relievers (Jansen feels like best chance since he hasn’t really had any bad seasons like the other 2). Stanton could get in if he gets to 500 HR (which he should still be able to do though he once had a shot at getting 600 but injuries have really slowed him down). Sale is the same type of case, though his chance at 3000 K is much lower than Stanton. Other younger guys on right path like Correa, Lindor, Yordan, Soto, Acuña, Tatis, Burnes, JRam, Vlad, maybe Devers. Some vets that should get on ballot but likely won’t get in are Waino, Cutch, Rizzo, etc.
Goldy is mad underrated. He should be ahead of Freddie on any list like this and it’s not close. His WAR7 and all his rate stats are on par or better than Miggy at this point (better defense and baserunning with pretty comparable OPS numbers - Miggy has better BA of course though Goldy is right around career .300 too). Votto is underrated as well and he and Greinke deserve credit as automatic HOFers too. But they never get put with the Big 5 that are guaranteed (Trout, Miggy, JV, Max, Kershaw).
Cano is an automatic too if not for the taint of PEDs. Don’t really know what he did clean honestly. Not sure when he really started. But his numbers are automatic entry to me.
deGrom and Judge are interesting cases to me too. Will both have HOF level primes, but may not get the overall numbers to get in based on later starts to their careers. Will be interesting. Similar type of cases though.
Goldschmidt & Freeman’s resumes are identical. Not sure why only one is mentioned. Arenado has 10 GGs, 7 AS & 5 SS. 300 HR & 1000 RBI. How many more years of work does he need Mad Dog before he would be considered for your HOF? 5? 10?
From the old standard, Miggy is the only locked HOF hitter. Old days, any hitters with less than 2500 hits or 400HR were not even considered as a borderline HOF. New metrics definitely boosted candidacy of today's players but other than Trout, no other hitters should get into the hall if they retire tomorrow period. Long geveity does matter and can't consider guys with not even 2000 hits and 400hrs unless they have crazy peak to over come that like Trout.
While I agree that Freemen is getting there you gotta put Goldschmidt as well. Very similar. Betts is on the way but not if he retires today, he still needs a few more great years.
Arenado is a first ballot man. This guy can’t get out of his own way sometimes. And stop calling Trout Overrated. CAREER OPS over 1000 and 3 MVP and another 2 or 3 runner up’s. He’s a top 4 positional player of all time and just might finish above 120 WAR. I believe he’s sitting above 80 now? With at least 3-4 7+ WAR Seasons ahead of him. It’s a shame for the pandemic shortened season and his injury in 2021, cause that set him back a bit. He’d easily be closing in on 100.
How do you put Bryce Harper and Freddie Freeman in and leave Don Mattingly out? Mattingly has a career 307 Batting Average, more RBIs, and a better hitter than Harper, and Freddie Freeman.
In my opinion Altuve and Arenado are worth mentioning. Altuve’s role as lead off hitter is unquestionable and Arenado may be the greatest third basemen ever seen next to Robinson or Schmidt. Both players have stacks of awards and various black type next to their names. Both have offensive and defensive awards or black type.
This has really turned into the hall of very good. Used to be you had to be great for a long time to make it in, now you can just have 6 or 7 great years and your ticket has been punched. I've never liked the "big hall".
Here’s my list of active players who will be Hall of Famers when all set & done. I’m not going to mention Miguel Cabrera because he’s already established himself as an all time great. No need to discuss him, he’s getting in. Active Players: 1. Mike Trout 2. Bryce Harper 3. Clayton Kershaw 4. Justin Verlander 5. Max Scherzer 6. Freddie Freeman 7. Mookie Betts 8. Nolan Arenado 9. Jose Altuve 10. Paul Goldschmidt 11. Manny Machado
Since Ohtani is a 2-way player, the total number of years he played should be multiplied by 2. Since he has played 5 years in MLB, his total should actually count as 10 years. 😛
This guy doesnt know baseball. Kershaw, Betts, Freeman, Trout, Verlander, Scherzer, Cabrera, Goldschmidt, Votto, Greinke, Arenado, and Machado make the hall. Everyone else is up for debate.
Trout is obviously in. I have Arenado, Harper, Betts in. Machado, Freeman, Goldy are knocing on the door. Miggy? He's in but honestly...dude has embarrassed himself sticking around last 3-4 years running around with that big old gut. My goodness.
Betts isn't a lock yet. Need a few more great seasons from him first. Harper will play 5-6 more season in Philly so he should get in. Add Goldschmidt and we are good.
If you dont win 300 games, you shouldn't be a HOFer, That was the rule forever, sorry, but a fact, Dale Murphy won 2 MVP awards, was the best player in all of the 80s, shouldn't be a HOF without him, Pete Rose as well
Votto and Goldschmidt are big misses here. BIG. Okay, so if we go with 50 WAR (position players this is) as the line, it goes: Trout Cabrera Votto Goldschmidt Longoria Betts Arenado Machado Freeman Freeman just sneaks in. Arenado is also a bit of a miss, considering his 8,641 Gold Gloves in a row.
Except 50 WAR means nothing in terms of guarantee. . I can name plenty of players with 50 war who aren't in and arent getting in. And Longoria isn't even in the same league as Arenado as a player regardless of WAR...Arenado is a slam dunk because of his peak in my opinion
Harper, Mookie, and freeman would not be hall of famers if they retired tomorrow. They still have some more work to do. Everyone else is a no doubter though
Here is my list: Mike Trout, Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander, Zack Greinke, Max Scherzer, Miguel Cabrera, Joey Votto, Paul Goldschmidt, Cole Hamels, Evan Longoria, Mookie Betts, Nolan Arenado, Manny Machado, Freddie Freeman. Harper and Altuve are borderline fringe additions at this point in their careers but will eventually make it after a few more prime seasons. Andrew McCutchen/Adam Wainwright just barely miss the mark for me and are the next best position player and pitcher on my list.
Pretty strong list, Hamels is tough being he only has 163 wins. (To be honest I put in Wainwright in over Hamels) I dont see Longoria making the cut. Very good player, but doesnt have the body of work. Very similar to David Wright (Actually being Wright has 1,000 few ABS than Longoria his numbers actually look better than Evans)
This guy is obnoxious to begin with, and no one should consider him an authority or major source on anything, but when he says at the end (I skipped ahead) "Don't give me Ohtani, not yet" I say "Stuff it". Don't give me the longevity rationale or the total numbers rationale. Ohtani has already earned his own room in the HoF. The usual criteria don't apply to him. He's the only true two-way player to be elite on both sides of the equation in the modern era, if not ever, and he's done it at that level for almost three full years now, so it's not a fluke. What he's done in the sport and for the sport transcends the usual numbers and standards applied to HoF candidates. I don't need a blustering bozo like "Mad Dog" to certify it. In fact, what he says just confirms how badly he needs his rabies shots.
Greinke will get to 3000 strikeouts Goldy Arenado since Helton will get in Kenley has been good in postseason except World Series Altuve is sketch with the cheating Votto should be in