Magic: The Gathering's Constant Artificial Rotation | Dies To Removal Episode 38 

Dear Brian and Vince, the eternal format you seek… is it Cube? IDK much about Cube TBH. So maybe I’m wrong but, it seems like a great way to excise the Shareholders’ fiduciary needs from the game 🤷🏾 *xposted in the Main Comments too

Haha at 29:10 I wish I could have seen Vince's face cringe while you tried that tongue twister. Great stuff guys thanks for keeping WotC honest!

I could rock with Un-Verse

Guys guys hear me out, maybe someone already had this idea (actually it has been done before with World championship decks) but why wizards don't print a "proxy horizons"? A reprint only set, with cards from the reserved list, but only valid on FNM and small LGS events with idk a golden border or a grey border. This way people can play with original expensive cards but can't go on GPS etc with them, this would be good for casuals and people invest.

9:01 in vid so far; it’s interesting that you say “Un-Sets were meant to be drafted”, when MaRo has gone on record saying that none of the un-sets before unstable were meant to be drafted & that he felt they were bad draft experiences (at least, by themselves; the intent was apparently for them to be used in Chaos Draft with regular sets, or in cubes, but not to be drafted on their own or with each other). He basically said that Unstable was them “giving up”, because everyone was drafting them despite that not being the intended method of play. Not saying you’re wrong; it’s abundantly clear a lot of people preferred to play UnSets divorced from the rest of the game, and authorial intent (designerial intent?) isn’t actually what determines how media “should” be consumed. I just find it interesting how adamant you were on this point.

You win today

These prices are becoming un-tenable.

So true 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Never seen a comment so funny I cry, and so sad but true I cry.

(Simpson's voice) HA-HA!

Yeah, that was an evil burn... :D

Un-opened

I played with it... once...

Heh, I think my box store is still selling copies. I haven't had a chance to play mine, but certainly added Fiesty Stegosaurus to my red deck there.

Mine is still sealed in a box

HELLO NICE TO MEET YOU MY CAPS LOCK IS ALSO BROKEN

I had to pause after Lil Nas the 10th and look up how to say his name. That's an incredible joke!

It was a very LRR style joke. I could have seen this as a Sketch of theirs.

Yes! Please more like this! I was literally laughing out loud when they got to "Uno!"

Hahaha! Wonderful intro!

That one got me good hauahahahaua

I had to pause and put my phone down when I heard that.

@@adriansalazar2919 I watched the intro like 3 times 😂

Same I had to pause the video damn that was good

That was very good :D

How dare folks not take literal joke cards seriously.

Magic is going to be better when he retires, though we'll also end up wishing for his return because Inistrad was a success. MaRo has always been a stopped clock.

@@styfen magic is dead, if Mark isn't here to mess things up, someone else will.

@@b.c.7741 magic is dead?

@@LivingThing28 the magic I grew up with and have known and loved is. Yours might still be alive tho hopefully.

@@LivingThing28 first fell In love with the game in 1997 with Tempest block. I was 9 years old and obsessed with it for years. Since I would say about 2015 til present this game barely resembles itself anymore. This is all subjective and opinion obviously.

How about ungodly sects? Make orthodox and catholic sets and mash them up as a double feature! And watch as wotc releases a protestant set and infuriates everyone.

Or just have maine caricature from the bible Get ready for my Samson fling deck.

As a Catholic theologian, seconded!

I 100% do not believe that

@@wordsmith451 do Mormons get a set?

Isn't that just modern... Before horizon

@@meavor more like without Horizon. They still put new standard sets.

@@SRaburrido yeah but... Horizons has been a thing for, what, 2-3 years? This is just what the original concept of modern WAS before WotC fucked with it.

I wish this would pick up. I'd play it. OR we start playing Pioneer and we vow to not allow new-to-pioneer cards ever. In any case we need a community run format since we can't expect to let wotc keep any format untouched longterm. But it's quasi impossible to get such a format going, plus it probably wouldn't be supported on MTGO.

Isn't this basically traditionnal ?

@@lunisinko7498 It's still not sustainable. If you want to game to run another 30 years, it's better to have formats where players can more easily dip in and out of the game. Most enfranchised players take breaks from the game regularily, so having an easy re-entry point for them is a good long-term strategy

I don't know how it's handled within WotC or Hasbro but in most companies incentives for managers are linked to current profits, not long term health of the company (or game). In a few years they will be switching to a different company, so what's it to them?

I have heard this idea of burnout since 2015.... Can people stop using that "long term health" argument without any real data.

@@czcbearsrule1 That would be extremely difficult given WotC / Hasbro don't publicly publish their analytics, combined with the fact that tracking the active and lapsed playerbase of a physical card game is even more difficult. Therefore, people use anecdotes and try to look at the general public perception on places like social media and RU-vid. People have the general feeling that they're pushing too much product, pushing a lot of high priced products, and that the overall quality is reduced (number of misprints, card quality issues, number of bannings). To add my own anecdote to the pile, I have played Magic on and off since the late 90s. I tried Arena and while the foundations are good, I burnt out within a few months. I haven't gone back, and the new things they're doing in Arena (Alchemy, etc.) haven't encouraged me to change my mind.

Sounds like wizards is taking after konami.

Did people hate the companions? I only discovered the set a couple of days ago at a chaos Draft.

@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 first, they were multi-format-warping good, then they nerfed them, now they're just a rare gimmik

Same. Same, honestly.

Not just games. That phrase is being used for a lot of things from books to TV

Just dont give a shit what comes out. Play as a past time if you need or take a couple years off. Ive taken many breaks since starting. The last 2 years have been the longest ive played consecutively and i may just dip at any time now. Just keep your collection and decks. No point selling unless you NEED to.

I play primarily on arena, and even there the burnout is real. I havent played arena in like a year. At this point ive missed so many sets its hard to get the energy to dive back in and see what ive missed.

Not just MtG, funny thing is I'm here researching and looking into starting MtG for Standard BECAUSE of what Games Workshop has done to Warhammer 40k, BECAUSE of what EA/Activision Blizzard has done to their games I've been playing well over 15 yrs.....it seems WotC is now following down that same road in the early stages of this new "Profit Margins" meet the quota fk the fanbase mentality. It's happening in literally everything now in 2022.

You don't need that dead pool, Pioneer has never really been alive. I doubt it's taken serious enough as a format yet that WotC will ever want to monetize it - unless tons of players flock over there from a ruined modern or legacy now.

@@Tacklepig I'm also fine with it being a gem that flies under the radar. Before the pandemic, local LGS ran Pioneer FMM, and it was pretty good. I hope they will again someday soon.

@@Mmoll1990 Commander also flew under the radar for some time, and now it's THE cash-cow format.

Where is a red tshirt guy when you need him though?

i am pretty sure this is what he was referring to

thats the joke

I disagree. There's enough design space between "normal" Magic cards and silver bordered cards that you can create cards that are wacky or novel enough for a silver bordered set while still being tame *enough* to work fluidly with black bordered magic cards. Hell, Water Gun Balloon Game is an example of this, if you changed it to just give evey other player a token copy of the card and make the card only track its controller casting spells, the only novel thing about it would be that it creates a pink creature token.

@juter4397 they banned the only 2 blue cards in the format 2 effing weeks before set rotation

I sold my collection, kept a few EDH cards and cards of sentimental value and proxied up the rest of the decks. Magic decks are worse than owning a boat. I feel like every time I look around there’s something extra pushed or just better than what I’ve decided to play with and the money required to even keep up with a quarter of products is insane.

@GRUMMLER that is the most nonsensical comment that I've ever read here. Wizards of the Coast is absolutely responsible for the direction that the game has gone in. I could spend no money on the game and proxy everything. I could find a store that allows proxies in tournaments. It still doesn't change the fact that WotC, by simply designing chase cards that are pushed or straight up broken, has changed the game. The colors share so much now that it almost doesn't matter what your favorite color is because it can do anything. It's pathetically easy to play 4 and 5 color decks now. There used to be an actual drawback to doing so, but now you're almost punished if you aren't running at least 3 colors. Mono color identity has been destroyed. There are so many more issues that I could talk about, but that would require a novel. The bottom line is WotC could give this game away for free, and it wouldn't change the fact that I feel that they have destroyed the game over the course of the last decade.

The big issue being that what you're saying is simply not true. Companies tend to make the biggest money by focusing of short-term profits and simply pulling the rip-cord at the right moment. Sure, you get a more consistent flow of income and a more stable business model by doing what you're proposing, and it's the overall more sensible approach, but at a certain size of company, they don't actively care about being sensible, they just want to see numbers go up. Magic has done exactly what you're saying for more than 20 years, and it worked. The reason they changed is because they wanted short term profits. This was an active decision, not something done out of ignorance.

You are not wrong. I've played this game off and on since 1997. I most recently got back in to the game in 2019. And I've just had enough of their price gouging after 2+ years of being back in the game. I'll just put my money towards a new sport bike. It'll ultimately be less expensive and it's a hell of a lot more fun.

Or Unfun

lol. To be fair, most of them die of crib death so I guess it's a novelty?

Lol. Yeah this one got fat and started eating everything in sight.

Eventually the whales will become endangered, and milking them will be illegal. Hopefully. Maybe. Oh please?

Well, from his perspective, as long as he's making money *he isn't wrong*...

Are you sure though that it is mostly "whales" t hat WotC is targeting? Collectors are for sure a profitable segment to milk, but if you have a look at the comment sections of most Commander related videos, it would look like the majority of timmies, casual tryharders and players in general keep being hyped at every new release and new must-have staple card that WotC is showing them: even if those are bought as singles on the secondary market, ultimately the cards came from somewhere so it is all revenues for WotC/Hasbro.

It's a good one, but none can beat the steamed hams skit. LeL.

He has made a few videos about FAB. I haven't checked out the game itself, but the videos are worth a watch!

The one thing I LOVE about FAB is that I have yet to lose a game because of RNG with resources (lands). probably every 2-3 games MGTA shufflers bones me either down to an initial 5 card hand or just conceding from bad draws. In FAB you only lose because you're not piloting your deck well enough (usually..)

Same here I lost all drive to keep playing. I can't even put my finger on what the exact reason is but I just dont feel like it anymore. Yet another format with yet another set of boosters to aquire. This begins to feel a lot like work.

I can relate..they pushed me out of modern since the beggining of MH with all the mistakes they made,but I managed to push through but then MH2 made all my dreams impossible because of the prices. I got into of Modern because I wanted some stability. Then i was getting cozy with Historic,but then that Jump Start with MH2 card hit,and still,i adapted. Now,with Alchemy,even though,as a Phoenix and Grixis/Sultai Control player it benefits me,i don't to play anymore.

That's my issue. I'm 44 and I can afford a decent bit, but I can't spend what is needed to currently keep up. And just for the record, I personally love the MH sets and the soft rotation that comes with it, but I'm also a deck builder so that is certainly a personal preference. All that said, the MH sets were great overall, but some of the pushed cards at Mythic rarity being short-printed having the price tags that they do on the secondary market had made the game impossibly hard to keep up with from a competitive standpoint as a normal person. I've personally taken a break from the game for thr last few months, and if things continue down this path, then I won't play again outside of some games with my daughter and her boyfriend. I've already quit Arena and its cash grab permanently.

The weird outcome of all of those issues for me is that it's mostly driven me towards playing vintage on MTGO. Cost-wise it's on par with modern and legacy, and it hasn't been utterly destroyed by crap like Ragavan. I still have to stagger my spending because I have other bills to pay, but at least I know that when I spend even $10 I can get cards I need, unlike on Arena where that same $10 could get me literally nothing of use.

That was part of what lead me to stop buying when The Walking Dead was announced. Haven't bought any WotC products in 14 months. New Kamigawa looks cool but think I'm good just looking at stuff from afar at this point.

i stopped after the announcement of the walking dead secret lair, and since then I only buy proxys... it has saved me a fortune and I can still play the game

@@xChikyx I was thinking of doing the same thing, but I only really play at my LGS and proxies can't be used in events.

@@dragonfire14x no casual? and support the LGS by buying deck boxes, sleeves, and so.,.. that's what i do.... and well i'm starting in flesh and blood too xd

@@xChikyx Not usually. They don't like to promote non-event play even before COVID.

Arena ended up as one big cancer for MTG imo.

You think they cared about testing and balance before Alchemy? The people who didn’t think Oko's +1 would be used defensively?

Why? I personally love being shoved into a niche and told that eventually I might have the chance to overpay for a limited-time product that has a vague chance of appealing to me.

@@wordsmith451 well when you put it that way…

If only you knew how bad things really are.

Yeah. I got in with Eldraine which apparently one of the biggest problem sets as a whole for Magic. Greatly skewed my perception of the game for a few months and within the last year I have found just how bad that was for a lot of things. Just wow.

Same. Long story short I got out of the game for the fourth or fifth time in 2009. I sold off a lot of now very expensive cards (dual lands, LED, Yawgmoth's Will, FoW, etc.). I came back five years later in 2014 because my daughter, who I had taught to play years earlier, wanted to play again. So we got back in and I learned about Modern. It immediately became my favorite format, as it essentially replaced my previous favorite format, Extended, and did so in the best way possible. After playing for about a year, my daughter started high school and we stopped playing for pretty much the entire time that she was in school. Then randomly in 2019 she was just like, "Daddy, we should play Magic again." So of course I said yes, we jumped back into the game with WotS and loved it. We loved MH. But every single thing that WotC has done since WotS, and all of the little mistakes that they've made, can no longer be ignored. This game has become nothing but a money sink to stay even remotely competitive at just a local store level. I even tried playing Standard recently with the fresh rotation. I've not been a fan of Standard ever, but a lot of my friends wanted me to play, so I did. Well after about a month of my $50 budget deck getting destroyed by the best decks in the format and their $300+ price tags, I'd had enough. I haven't played since, and at this point I'm not sure that I'll ever bother again.

@@Xoulrath_ At this point I just have a modest pauper cube, a budget battle box I made, and online pennydreadful. Wish ya the best

@@Xoulrath_ Proxies make playing magic fun again.

I read your comment as it came up in the video, that was too good

Im a huge commander player and im totally fine with the amount of cards we were getting like, in 2015-2018, not too little or too much. Now I feel like we're getting swamped with cards and I can't keep up.

the rules committee is a joke at this point. they ban cards just because they don't like them or it encourages ways of playing they dont like. im gonna keep playing it with my playgroup too

"Sorry, no can do, must print more money." - Wizards, probably

But monke

So true

@@anthonybuck4864 ragavan isn't broken or format warping lol, git gud pls

@@jeef16 Yikes

Un-Wanted

quite a serious question

They really need to take a good hard look at Yugioh honestly. I remember when Konami banned multiple chase rares on release day. I remember when they basically shut down all organised play overnight, refused to publish decklists etc. Yugioh has never had cash prize - you were lucky if you could win a PS4 and a booster box from a GP esque event. I remember when they decided to errata all the banned old school classics to make them "playable" again. I remember years and years of one-deck formats, unlimited resource combo control play everything from the graveyard forever mirrors, absurd "set up 3+ hard counters on turn 1" decks, "combo loop discard your whole hand turn 1" decks. Not to mention straight up FTKs. Power creep has gone so far trap cards are unplayable because the cost of waiting a turn to activate them is so great. The worst quality bendy foils you have ever seen. Orders of magnitude worse. Nobody in Yugioh has ever complained about foil quality - it's always been trash. So much that WotC is doing now people complain about has happened with Yugioh in the past decade, Magic players have no idea how good they have it

Where can I get a premodern deck for under 400? If there is I'd play

@@Izuyoi7215 you can build Sligh for less. Oath. Slivers. Elves without cradles. Psychatog. Use gold border cards and you could probably build survival too

@@Izuyoi7215 Literally only a handful decks need the heavy hitters. Majority of the format is cheap, fetchlands being like the top end.

But it isn't an irresponsible customer problem. There are research articles all over the internet explaining exactly how this is psychological manipulation. This is especially true to people who have lower self-control issues or impulse control issues like people with ADHD or gambling addictions. I'm not saying that the customer doesn't need to be responsible to some degree, but we have to start calling out the predatory practices that all companies use and put an end to them. This is the problem with putting profit over everything else. It becomes a dragon that you're constantly chasing.

@@Xoulrath_ At the end of the day, only one person is responsible for your own actions.