0:42 - What is Blotch? 2:42 - Classic Blotch Remedies 6:16 - My Formula (DIY Recipe) 7:21 - Does adding the finish actually make a difference? 8:16 - Testing Different Methods 11:30 - Testing Different Stains
Just for future reference, the test where you mirror a board by cutting it in half and staining both sides is flawed. The grain that "goes up" on one piece and absorbs more stain will be going down on the other board, since you flipped one of the boards upside down. If you did this and stained both boards the same way, I'd expect the dark and light spots to be opposite of each other, which is the case for many parts of the samples. I'm assuming the samples that contradict my theory are due to effects of the blotch remedies, but I can't be sure. This test is better than using two completely different boards, but not as good as your initial test that involved the laborious process of moving to a lower layer of the same board to perform tests. Therefore, even though I agree with the conclusion you come to, I think you came to it based on the results of a flawed test. Regardless, the video is still good and very informative. Thanks.
Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing say's that the instructions on the pre-stain can are wrong and you're supposed to let it dry 24hrs or 6-8hrs on a hot dry day before staining, he also say's gel stain can be an alternative to pre-staining. Thanks for the glue tip, I'll try it, I think the pre-stain gel stain makes more sense if it's a big project like a kitchen or built-in.
Thanks so much Mark! I was scared to renovate my old pine table as years ago I messed up the color wax (blotchy). But after watching your tips over and over I felt confident. The Juice worked perfectly and there’s ony a tiny amount of blotching on the stained surface of my fantastic ‘new’ table. I will enjoy it for years now. Thanks from The Netherlands (Europe).
I’ve had good results with very strong black tea as a conditioner. I’ve used it on pine and cherry and have been very happy with the results. I use 10 bags of English black breakfast tea in 1 pint of boiling water. Let it cool and paint it on and dry. Sand lightly to remove the fuzz and stain.
I know this is an late reply but where I live (Oklahoma). You can now get ash, #2 grade walnut, hickory, cherry, hard maple for cheaper than construction grade.
@@thomasprovencher4611 I know I bought a 16 ft, 10 in wide, 6/4 board of ash the other day for $42 bucks. Find a 2x10x16 anything in a big box store for less than that? It’s impossible.
THANK YOUUUUUUU!!! Your DIY has changed everything for me. I use a lot of pine for dining tables simply because where I live, people will not pay for hardwood. I just used this on my favorite pine and it's gorgeous!!!!!
WOW - Marc this video was a lifesaver. I milled custom doors out of maple for an entertainment centre I built, and they stained horribly (I chose dark walnut varathane). Very blotchy after using Minwax's Wood Conditioner. I was ready to throw in the towel, but 'Marc Juice' saved the day. They came out looking like a professionally stained set of maple doors! This was the last piece on a very complicated (for me) build....so I'm very happy with the result. This stuff is GOLD. Huge appreciation for this video.
Mark - thanks for sharing your formula, you could had easily canned and sold it - On glue sizing, I have found that Old school Elmers white school glue works great. I’ll need to experiment with the addition of a clear water born finish.
Such a great video. Thanks for all the work gone into this. It’s always an age old issue when you produce an amazing piece and ready for the finish, then it blotches and messes up the overall look. Thank you very much!
I love the whimsical MS!!! I’m glad he’s back. Similar to your early content, the fun, playful, and humorous style was what made me drawn to your channel! I love me some Marc Juice! Thanks for the insight; I can’t wait to try it!
Great video! I prepared some MarcJuice (4 vol% PVA adhesive, 4 vol% PU) and tested it alongside a second method, wetting the surface with Extender (from General Finishes, a polyol mix, AKA pot life extender for PU based stains). Both of these methods worked excellently. I recommend you try Extender method if you ever do a video update. I’ve also ordered some proper, pure polyvinyl alcohol with higher polymerization & hydrolysis level, so it will have better film forming character and liquid resistance compared to the PVA they use for adhesives. I’ll reply with an update and let you know how that compares with MarcJuice!
Great and informative video! I really like how commited you were to testing. Fair comparison of all the methods. I'm subbed! I have one observation, however - the method you proposed solves the blotch problem, no doubt, but the wood stained without treatment has something very beautiful in it. The contours of wood grain are more visible, the contrasts are more interesting. That being said. if you want an artistic finish that enhances the beauty of the wood grain, it is better to stain without treatment and just work your way to a beautiful stained look through staining and sanding multiple times. This is how musical instruments are stained. The effects of great luthiers' work are truly stunning with this method.
Just wanted you to know that I tried your recipe on some 100+ year-old reclaimed pine I'm practicing on before using it to build an electric guitar body out of. It worked well to prep the surface before applying a water-based dye and really appreciate you passing on this formula. I have a pic of the results if you want it. Thanks.
So in a classic case of know your audience, I watched this then announced to the house that I was going to the garage to get me some "Mark Juice" before realizing that my son and his friend were hanging out there and guess what his friend's name is... yeah. Shocked looks from everyone in the room.
I've been using "Mark" juice for 10 years. I works amazing to seal cut sides on MDF as well. Which is a must if you're going to be painting it for finishing.
Marc's juice has a long shelf life. I've had his juice in a plastic container on my shop shelf for over a year and its just as effective as the day I made it. Don't worry I wear gloves any time I need to slather it on one of my projects. Stop it 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Dang I've been waiting for something like this for a few years now. Apparently pre-stain is and has been an entirely America-thing. You can't find that stuff in Europe. Thank you. Birch is plentiful in my country and it's quite expensive to get any other hardwoods barring oak so it's quite annoying to be limited so heavily. Stains help a lot.
Y’all are not alone! I’m in South Africa and every person I have spoken to at the paint stores think I escaped from the asylum 😂 Then they try and sell me a cutting board conditioner (mineral oil and beeswax) and claim it’s the same thing 🤦🏼♂️
I’ve made the glue size and have had good luck with it but hated dealing with sanding the grain back. I’ve recently have had great results, actually better results using clear gel varnish as the prefinish and immediately apply gel stain over top the clear before it dries. The clear controls the absorption without sealing off the color coat. Major plus is no grain raising
Noob question here: Is 'finish' the same as a stain? if so, can i just add a few tablespoons of the stain i intend to use (if water based) or should it be a clear color?
I do something a little different than others. After sanding to 180 I put on two light coats of wipe on poly. Then I lightly sand. Then I put gel stain on top and wipe off the excess. Then I let it dry for the night. Then about 3 more coats of wipe on poly. Then some 4 steel wool with paste wax. Try it and let me know if you like it.
Thanks for the info. I am a newish woodworker and I usually have fun right up to the finishing and then I worry my self sick. When you say water based does that include minwax water based poly ? Sorry for the stupid question but I am just not sure. Also if I use your formula do I have to use water based stain ? Thanks again for the good info.
I am the same way about projects! I'm new to this, but I'm always afraid to mess up the finish or not like it. I'm about to try the water based poly in the mix. In the video he used all kinds of stains: gel, water, oil... So any type of stain should work.
Thanks for this very informative and funny video. Finally i can stain 100 $ boardfoot of pine to look like 75 $ boardfoot of mahogany! (btw: I know it's a lot of work but i love these weekly videos.)
This video required a lot of time and effort. What a lot of us don't realize is that these videos are a gamble. Whether you present a simple tutorial or one as involved as this one, you don't know until you put it out there. I'm sure it was in the back of your mind the whole time; "is this going to be worth the effort?" I hope it was/is. It certainly gave me some useful information and I want to thank you.
Name aside.... wow, those were some impressive results. Need to file this idea for future use in the shop. Maybe I'll call it the "Spag Treatment" though...
Hi Marc, this video was right up my alley. In particular I'd like something I can use inside to reduce blotches, ie without toxic chemicals, since I dont have a woodshop or garage. Yesterday i used pre stain conditioner on small area of drop leaf desk I'm redoing and yikes the fumes were SO bad i had to call the fire dept for advice on how to get rid of the smell bf the pilot on my gas stove blew me to kingdom come. Appreciate your suggestions. Obviously the wood glue and water in Marc Juice are odorless (will skip it on my cereal thanks) but the varnish, not so sure. May test a few mixtures water and wood glue with some mineral spirits thrown in for good measure and see it that helps.
For anyone working with birch, I made this and tried it with a water based stain compared to varathane’s oil based conditioner. The DIY solution gave the birch noticeable black specks where the grain recessed (same with no conditioner), whereas the varathane removed the specks and evened out the transitions between the changes in wood tone. So wouldn’t recommend for birch, but it looks great on the wood in this video.
Can we use oil-based conditioners for water-based stains? AFAIK it's against manufacturers' recommendations. Did you have positive experience making so? Finding water-based conditioner is impossible where I live so I am in search for blotch preventing solution for birch plywood and water-based stain.
I was working on refinishing an oak table. Did the sanding, used a wood conditioner and then stained. It came out horrible. Lots of blotches. I came to RU-vid for an answer and you did not disappoint. Even though I had doubts about this working I picked up supplies I could find at the local hardware store. I sanded the table top again, used “Marc Juice”, then stained. It worked miracles! Came out exactly how I pictured and I couldn’t be happier. Thank you so much for this tutorial. This video was so well done. You are a great teacher. Thanks you for saving my project.
I purchased some of CN prestain from the website (6/21). It arrived promptly. It would be interesting to compare results from your formula vs. the CN prestain.
I use 40% glue by volume for general finishes dye stain. Love it on pine and poplar. Really stubborn wood gets two coats of the glue size. I find a second thin coat is easier then mixing something thicker.
Excellent examples. Thorough method for creating comparables. Glue + sawdust as filler. Glue + stain + water as conditioner. We’re going to need a bigger bottle of glue. Thanks for the video!
I started DIY woodworking and have learned a lot. Recently my biggest challenge has been blotching because all I'm using during this learning period is the consumer pine from the big box stores. This gives me new hope. Thanks!
Hi folks, after trying several different products and methods on "BIRCH", I was unsuccessful at eliminating all the blotches and was ready to give up staining my furniture piece and just clear coating it. That was until I found this video. I mixed up a batch as formulated by Mark and applied it to the material. It dried pretty quick, so I was able to give it a light sanding with 400 grit and then applied the (water based) stain to find in my opinion, the most beautiful, grey stained birch wood with no blotches. THIS formula did the trick for me. Thanks so much for this great video !!!!!
With that mug, your slurps are at least 40% louder! Personally on staining, I just spray a heavy coat of stain and let it dry. It might be a bit darker way but results have been quite consistent. Let it suck that stain until its full of it.
PVA will dissolve but only when added slowly to hot (nearly boiling) water, under stirring. This method of preparing MarcJuice results in a dispersion of PVA rather than a dissolved solution. As long as you shake thoroughly immediately before using, it works well enough (Although a solution might work better).
I have avoided staining pine over the years but this method seems like a winner but will have to try this myself. I have tried several other methods but none seem to give me results I was looking for so gave up but this is giving me hope as I just build a standing mirror frame and will give this a shot. I appreciate your time on this.
Thanks for the video, so helpful! I've been using boiled linseed oil as conditioner followed by oil based stain and poly and that's helped a little but I'm looking forward to trying your recipe.
Hello Mark. I was just wandering about your super juice formula. Would this work on pine floorboards. I have applied Pre-Conditioner before staining my floor. This supposed to help to spread stain more evenly, unfortunately some places still appeared blotchy. I was thinking about re-sanding those places and applying your formula to achieve beautiful consistent colour of the stain. Anybody tried this on floorboards?
This is my 2nd watchthrough... I'm getting into custom staining using mixol and looking @ transtint next. Loving mixing my own custom stuff. I'm getting a sprayer (Graco finish pro gx19) to boost my overall finish quality and setup for better production. I need me some Mark juice aparently! Whats the VOCs on that Mark?
Marc,thank you for another great video and tip. I recently read an article by Bob Flexner and he mentioned that the instructions for commercial wood conditioners are wrong. He recommends letting the conditioner dry completely over night. He showed some examples and there was a huge difference when following his suggestion. I’ve had success making poplar look like cherry by using the shellack method with a one pound cut. I’ll try your formula next.
I have thought about experimenting with the commercial conditioners because I wondered about the instructions. Thanks for the info. I'll find the article your referenced.
I’ve had reasonable success with the Varathane pre stain, but I agree with the drying time. I have found that if I don’t ensure that it’s dry and ‘cure’ that it remains a but soft on the surface and completely clogs the sand paper. (I like to sand before appling the waterbased stain.) However, when it is given more time to dry, it sands just as expected. I plan on trying this juice as I have just ran out of what I’ve purchased.
When you say "add any water based finish"... I assume you mean "any water based clear coat" or "water based poly", correct? So: PVA (wood) glue, water-based poly and water - correct?
I’m a total noob, so apologies in advance. In your conditioning formulation (M Juice) you use water-based finish with the glue. 1. When you say finish, do you mean stain or polyurethane/sealer? 2. Can I use oil-based finish (or stain, or whatever it is) or must I use water-based finish in this step? 3. After staining (in which I’m not limited to either water or oil based stain, as per video) do I seal with water or oil based poly based on the stain type used? Thank you.
I am trying to refinish 20yr old maple cabinets with plywood insets that have turned orange. I've been sanding incessantly but can't seem to get to bare wood because unfortunately, they have prior stain. I live in CA and "green" strippers don't work to remove stain. The cabinets still have some color that is not consistent and look blotchy. I did not want to have to go darker which I why I started sanding. I have questions re your preconditioner; 1. Would your formula help to create a more consistent base to then apply a light color dye, toner or stain without sanding to bare wood? Does your conditioner block orange/yellowing like shellac allegedly does? 3. Would whitewashing after applying your preconditioner and then dye, tone or stain be a better option? 4. Is full painting my only option? Anything so I don't have to sand to bare wood, UHG! Recommendations appreciated.
I am trying to refinish 20 yr. old maple cabinets with plywood insets that have turned orange. I’ve been sanding incessantly but can’t seem to get to bare wood because they have a prior stain. I live in CA and "green" strippers don't work. The cabinets still have some color that is not consistent and looks blotchy. I have questions re your preconditioner; 1. Would your formula help to create a more consistent base to then apply a light color dye, toner or stain without sanding to bare wood? 2. Does your conditioner block orange/yellowing like shellac allegedly does? 3. Would whitewashing after applying your preconditioner and then dye or stain be a better option so I don't have to sand everything to bare wood? UGH!
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but when using "Marc Juice", which is water-based, are you then staining with water-based stains or can you use oil-based and gel stains with "Marc Juice"? Good video! Thanks.
I was determined to stain a poplar side table that I built. I watched videos to see how to do it. I did what they said, and the result was awful. It looked like I would paint, but then I saw this video and thought I'd give it a chance. It worked! I didn't need a quart of juice, so I calculated: 1 part glue to 20 parts water. I added enough dye to see color in the juice, probably about 3 parts. First I sanded. I had some 1000 grit at hand, so I used it as the last sanding. I then wetted it to raise the grain and sanded again. I then applied the juice, and it looked great. The stain was an amber dye. It was not my final stain. I used it as an undercoat to the final stain--a gel stain, Bartley's Colonial Maple. When dry, I sanded it with the 1000 grit, applied a second coat of juice, and sanded again. Once that was dry, I applied the gel stain. The results were terrific. I was at the point of despair, and this saved the day. Thank you.
hi, i want to try your juice! but i do not have access to the General Finishes Topcoat you are using. Being a novice and in europe im a bit confused with the different terms/products (primer, conditioner, topcoat, undercoat etc). Would a clear interior wood varnish do the job? Thanks a lot
Very useful video. I tend to just use thinned Shellac because I almost always use Shellac as a finish so very convenient to use the same product and I know will be compatible.
Ive had luck on pine using Minwax pre conditioner...skip the instructions. Brush on till you dont have any dry spots. Some areas like knots take quite a bit of solution. Then wipe off wait 5 to 10 minutes then apply stain and wipe off immediately. Good luck pine is tough to get a consistant look.
I used your recipe after stripping my kitchen cabinets. The stain went on beautifully and I was very happy. Until I applied poly and all of the stain pulled off in splotches. I wish I could send a picture. Have you ever experienced that before?
I just wish there was a way to see how well the stain under these different materials held up over time. Was one more prone to significantly bleach out with sun exposure or how age impacts the use of conditioner vs Mark Juice or just no difference but I guess we don’t have a time machine :(
Matt: I am trying to refinish 20 yr old maple cabinets with plywood insets that have turned orange. I’ve been sanding incessantly but can’t seem to get to bare wood. They still have a hint of color that is not consistent. Would your pre stain formula help to create a more consistent base to then apply a light water based dye or stain?
From video it's not clear to me what kind of water-based finish was used as 3rd component? The can was shown only briefly. Was it water-based polyurethane or something else?
I ve always used lacquer sanding sealer applied with a foam roller than sanded before applying diluted stain repeat as needed, remember air temp and age of the wood both have a effect. oh and I am NOT naming anything after myself.
So it's okay to use oil stain over the polycrylic "Marc juice" solution? Polycrylic is water-based, right? Is it okay to use oil stain over a water-based solution like that?
@@robira1313he actually uses oil based stain for most of this video. At about 11:30, he compares various others, but yes, it's compatible. Based on extensive use of the former product from Charles Neil (which is similar composition) I used two coats of the blotch control, sanding between and after to eliminate the raised grain. I then applied GF oil based strain after 24 hours. Finally, I applied two coats of the GF water based Enduro Var after 72 hours. This sequence was used on hundreds of linear feet of fir casing and base and several doors. I'd expect Marc's formula to behave about the same.
Marc, is there window of time to stain after you use your treatment like there is with pre-stain conditioners? Also, I have a friend who wants me to do 1700 sf of maple wood paneling using plywood (53 sheets) cut into 11 1/2" wide boards. Would you suggest a water soluble dye instead of mixing a large amount of treatment then staining after? Great video as usual and thanks for any advice on this Robert
You got me with the coffee drinking for a second there while I wasn't looking at the screen. All of that slurping sounded like you were blasting off with a big flower powered glass piece. Lol 😵 I was expecting to look up a see Matthew McConaughey at the high school lurking with the bell bottoms again. 😅 Thanks for the video.
There is another good solution that you didn't touch on: pigmented oil stain. Instead of a penetrating oil stain (ie:Minwax) use a pigmented oil stain (Zar, Valspar or Rustoleum etc.) This approach is much more controllable.
Love how thorough this comparison is! I tried to order Charles Neil conditioner & it never came. Tried to contact them and they sent an email with “tracking” but no tracking number. Thanks for sharing-definitely going to make Marc Juice as an alternative 😂
Brenda, like you, I also recently placed an order for Charles Neil anti-blotch conditioner that never came. I placed the order in May and immediately received tracking information. However, the tracking info on the USPS website as well as the Charles Neil Woodworking website both state that the the package has not shipped, only that a label has been created. I have contacted the Charles Neil Woodworking company numerous times and they claim that they sent the product - even though their own website shows that it never shipped. And they refuse to issue a refund. So, they essentially stole $49.95 from me. I have filed complaints with PayPal and with the BBB and strongly suggest that people do not order from the Charles Neil Woodworking company. I ordered the anti-blotch conditioner from Charles Neil in the past and had no problems. It is really sad that whoever is running the business after his death now seems to be running an illegitimate business (i.e., scam).
Thanks for sharing! I was just about to experiment with glue sizing ratios, never thought to add color to it as well. Could you share the color of the water based stain and the tint color and ratio you used. Thanks on advance.
@@adamthewoodworker2571 No I didn't. I was using a piece of birch and was happy with ~20%+ amount of glue when I saw Marc's video and never got to anymore tests.
@@woodwhisperer Marc - I didn't watch carefully enough the first time but understand the process now, but my question was the name of the water based stain (General Finishes brand Espresso, Brown Mahogany, etc..) along with the tint and ratio used after you applied your "juice". Thanks - Carl
Don't know if you're old enough to remember this but when you said pour it on your cereal I thought of this. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ra1TbAPpk9E.html
