Making Mail Armour - part two: triangles and expansions 

Gotta admit my first thought when I read mail armour and triangles was "Oh no Llyod's making a chain mail bikini"

'A satisfying click' - Never have I heard a more accurate description. I kept thinking this in part one, and I'm glad Lindy agrees.

Now imagine welding or riveting every single one of the rings!

Your patience is almost Saint-like. You could say you have the patience of a Saint. Why are Saints patient, you might ask? Well, we still don't know, but the answer will eventually come.

It's just like knitting. For men =P

I imagine Lloyd getting hundreds of pics of chainmail in 9 months and wondering what it is all about.

Damn you, I have enough time consuming hobbies and unfinished projects, and now I want to make mail as well...

"Send me pictures of your finished items." Several months later...

I don't think I have the patience for something like this.

I finally ordered the hoops to make my first one! Can't wait to start!!!

Thank you! That was the clearest explanation of expansions and contractions I've found. I just picked up the hobby and there are 1000s of videos on people's various methods of assembling 4-1, 6-1, etc but very few good explanations of actually shaping it into anything

I've done a mail-shirt earlier, short sleeves so basically it looks like a chain mail nightgown, or a very long steel t-shirt. But we used a springy kind of steel and pliers that slightly opened them up and let the natural steel in the ring have it shut itself. Not nearly as secure as the above type of rings, and snags a fair bit easier. But that type is much, much quicker to build, since you can fasten each ring with only one hand and pick up the rings with the pliers themselves. We basically did 4-in-1 - pattern as above, and saw too it that we would have the the connections horizontally. That is, you start with a vertical row of rings, add another vertical row connecting each ring to two, then another, etc. When worn with that orientation, the mail has a straight in the horizontal, and hangs tight in the vertical, which makes it look a fair bit denser. Now, you could always either make it of thicker rings (harder), or use a 6-in-1-patter(much harder). Both of those would make it heavier and thicker. But unless you actually need the protection, quite unnecessary. We basically build 25 cm large squares or ribbons and then fastened them together in certain patterns together with triangles to get it it into shape. But then, being 5 people working together, doing ribbons, makes one mail decently quick. Basically you can build a full mail-shirt in an evening, or evening and a night before you go to a live with it.

LOL this reminds me of my DnD days where I made a ring mail out of paper clips.

Lindybeige.. I've really been enjoying all you vids the past few days. discovered you randomly searching for something ancient greece related.. very informative.. and funny in that Brit Humor way that most Americans can't understand..

Another good morale booster (assuming a simple-ish european weave of maile, like 4-in-1 or 6-in-1) is to pre-butt half of your links, which makes everything seem to go much faster. For every link you actually close onto the finished coif, you can add another that's already closed, making yourself think you're going much faster than you actually are. It's also easier to avoid sharp protruding edges when the link you're closing isnt hooked into a 20 pound mass of constantly shifting metal.

1:52 The way you say "... so you can get a better look at the pattern." is so so satisfying.

Thank you very much. I've got to say that I don't watch all the videos you upload. But if I'm watching them, they are always worth it. I'm learning something while it's entertaining. Greetings from Germany!

Very informative. You also have the patience of a saint. How you can go from ranting in one video to knitting steel in another is well lifted from mere mortal coils.

This is something I could get into. This might sound a bit strange, but I'm rather fond of excessively repetitive tasks. As Lindy mentioned this in his first 'Making Mail' video, there's something very therapeutic about work like this. It's one of those things where you get comfortable, queue up a view RU-vid videos, and spend the next few hours doing. The best part is that at the end of it all you're left with a very tangible result. A completed piece of mail is something that you can hold, something that you can wear, and then reflect on and go, "Holy cow, I made this!" *That* is a satisfying feeling.

Legit some of the best info I've found on this subject. Cheers man

Wow... I've been making pieces off & on, here & there for years, and never thought about the heating trick. Best RU-vid tip I've gotten all year!

I love your videos, Lindybeige! Much more entertaining than all of that crap we got on TV here in Germany...

Thanks for doing this series, not many places to see this type of thing!

I just watched Knyght Errant's video on mail shirts the other day. He talked about how, unlike cheaper modern ones, historical mail shirts were tailored, and I was just wondering how to do expansions and contractions when this video popped up. Cool!

Very nice work! I have never made my own maillie garments 'from scratch', though I have tailored my hauberk and coif so that they are joined together to make a shirt with a hood- lots and lots of contractions there :)

I used to braid ropes as a hobby; but still I'm amazed by your patience doing this.

I made a bunch of mail in my crazy college days, and I found the exact opposite to be true of the morale factor. Making little 5 ring clumps, then lines, then squares, then knitting squares together was much more motivating for me than the slight inconvenience of having to put new links through 4 existing links. Another factor that may have contributed is that I did not always have a flat surface available to work on, so being able to make small parts and throw them in cup as each part got finished was extremely convenient. The down side is that it doesn't allow for expansions or contractions nearly as easily, since each part ends up being interchangeable rather than specific to a particular location on the finished item. For anyone else trying this, just remember your mileage may vary.

1k likes 0 dislikes gg Lindy

+Lindybeige Here is a tip for you and others about expansions/contractions. That ring in the middle that only connects to three rings works a lot better if it smaller than the rings in the rest of the pattern. If you are using 5/16" rings than use a 1/4" ring in the middle. This does two things, first: looks better because it blends in; and second: that ring is now load bearing instead of just dangling there filling in space.

I do definitely not have the patience to do this. However, I'm very glad you do, so I can watch you do it instead of doing it myself.

That end message was gold

i greatly enjoy your videos

REALY nice tip with the ofen! Thanks a lot!

Lovely work!

I started once. I was using dreadfully large copper rings and was too young to have the patience to make it particularly far. Maybe after a few other projects, I will get around to trying it again after these couple videos.

I developed a different workflow, one that might be a bit harder on morale, but is more effective overall. First, I prepare a plenty of closed rings and then I link every four of them together with another ring (so that I have a cluster of five rings - 4in1). I then make a chain out of those clusters, where every other link comprises not one, but to rings (I take two clusters, grab two outer rings of each one and drive a ring through all of them, then I add another cluster in the same way and so on). I make two such chains, put them together so they overlap like the finished mail and start linking them with more rings, then I add another chain and continue until I have a large enough piece of mail. This is also when you can add extensions if you need any. I make same-sized patches of mail that I later connect together; it's far more convenient than working with one large and heavy piece of mail. Linking mail is a bit difficult to describe with word, especially if you have to use foreign language. Maybe I could make a video of it.

I have a handmade butted coif. It's a lot stronger than i thought it would be. i've only lost a few rings from it, and it's an easy repair. I would suggest a soft leather trim around the face and around the bottom neck.

Thanks for the triangle tip, it really helps

Very great video! Much help for my own coif-making. I am making a greathelm and for that i need a mail coif to have under. So butted mail seems like a good alternative since it is easy to make and i cant afford a flattringed-rivited mailcoif. I much like the triangle way of knitting!

I'll probably never make mail living where I do and doing what I do, but I still enjoy these videos for some weird reason :)

Hello, Lloyd, as a maille weaver and vendor I can see the point of visible progress while working on something as large as a byrnie or hauberk. When I made my hauberk I made rectangular patches, then stitched them together. It was kind of disappointing to only be able to wear it after month straight of work. However, I find that linking one ring at a time takes a lot longer.

I made one of those little patches you displayed in your first chainmail video and I have some coils of electric fence wire and a steel rod that I eventually plan on turning into links. But I procrastinate like you wouldn't believe.

I once started making a mail that had a 1:6 link instead of the 1:4 link you are doing... boy did it take time and patience

Good vid, hope to see the finished marvel!

Did may coif a little bit different. First I made round top that covered my head like a tupee. For this round piece I added 6 expansion rings for each row. The part for the sides and back of my head was a simple rectangle. The part for my neck also was a rectangle that was slightly longer than the first one, but a little bit thinner. Then I added the piece that would cover the part between neck and shoulder using expansion rings for each row again.

I wish I had the free time to try this. it looks great.

I'm making a mail sleeve and didn't know about the 5-in-1 or 3-in-1 for contracting or expanding. That'll make things better on my current project!

A challenging for the mathematically-inclined who also enjoy taking 150 hours to create pieces of mail: create a set of Borromean mail. In this kind of standard mail, if you take any two rings, and throw out all the rest, those two might be totally separate, but they might join one another in a 'Hopf link.' Those are the only two options. But in a Borromean link, if you take two of the circles involved, and get rid of the rest of them, no pair will be linked. For an example of the simplest case, you can do a search for the Borromean rings.

Nice series. I can see how this would be very relaxing. Reminds me of soldering electronics. Where do you find the patterns for various components? How do you know when to put in expansions/contractions, etc.?

Thank you for going into detail about the expansion / contraction. I know i'm going to eventually make one but because I apparently hate myself i'm doing it with a dowel and wrapping wire around it and then cutting it with a jewelers saw, I also plan to use aluminium because I'm hoping it will come out lighter and I'm not super worried about it looking authentic

I once did a little bit of "scalemail" to see what it was like. Even though I only did a small bit, I enjoy the piece because it's just fun to fiddle with. Wouldn't want to make armor completely out of it though as it has some limits to its flexibility, but it's still a fun bit. Maybe as an accent to the mail on like the back or cuffs.

Just to say about your browning point, you can get the same effect without browned links by simply bend the links inwards slightly as you open them. This way the links click together in the right way.

Just imagine how much work it is to make riveted mail. Trying to rivet every single link, one at a time...would drive me mad. Or bore me to tears.

I have so far made myself a pair of chainmail Hosens, coif, a simpler haubergeon and a pair of mittens and I can only agree with the moral boasting effect of triangles, I did however make one and expanded it sideways rather than make a lot of them and then connect them. However seeing the speed you are working in works wonders.

let the "armor vs armour" fight begin!

would be nice to know how expensive all those links are

My rings disappeared in a burglary (must have been a very specialised burglar). I didn't want to start over so I just played music instead. You can have a listen at the next Visby thingy, week 32 next year and decide if you think I made the right choice..

I've been working in a hauberk since June. I've been making the chest and back pieces using rectangles of 25 units. I can confirm from experience that joining all of those rectangles is a giant pain in the ass. Seeing this video makes me wish I knew the triangle technique before I started. Hopefully I can switch from rectangles to triangles with no ill effects.

i figured half of this out by myself with a bic pen and micro pliers. im going to check out the rest of your tips and see if i cant conquor armpts.

It's one thing putting all those links together imagine how tedious it was making them in medieval times

thankyou for this video, I make chain mail all the time, so do all my firends and pretty much everyone I know. I will now be the best at making chain mail..since I do it all day every day.

I kept waiting for you to say, "And here's one I made earlier."

I did a little mailing years ago, I made smaller things, but I liked doing a 6in1 or 8in2 pattern. Ever try them? or have any other thoughts about them?

I finally finished my coif! :)

A friend of mine came did some research for on historical chainmail, and found out that if you want to rivet your mail, take a steel plate, and drill holes in in it, then cut around the holes and file the edges of the resulting rings. Hey presto, you now only have to rivet half of the rings.

My God, Lindy, how did you get this good a quality of audio?

For those interested in making maile for protection. butter mail is not giving you any protection whatsoever. you would need flat riveted mail

Suggestion. I generally use 6 inch needle nose pliers instead the pliers you use. Good idea on the baking.

I weld my rings shut in situ. Works and looks brilliant... And ridiculously strong...

Morale is definitely important, else you'll just give up. Making triangles is also rather useful if you would rather not do a lot of expansions or contractions, as it gives you the opportunity to use 45 degree joins instead. I find this quite useful for doing coif skirts and non traditional raglan style shoulders.

I've been working on a bernie for about a year and a half (I'm quite big) and realised halfway through that I'm an idiot and had the grain going side to side rather than up and down. I opened it up and turned it round to make it more right, but that was pretty demoralising because rather than a fetching chain mail boob tube, I now have a pile of mail that won't go on me (yet). Ah well, you live and learn. Do you not find it faster to do the adding one new link with two closed links already attached to it? So each time you add to your piece you add 3 links then go along and close them up. (If that makes sense).

the triangle thing does work for morale. not exactly the same thing, but i was building a huge hollow sphere on minecraft. i was doing each row in circles going up, and after 2 hours was very bummed as i was barely off the ground. then i decided to do the sides one at a time going up instead of circles and i felt much better as i could see the progress better.

Lloyd, are there any historical evidence that people used armor made from wood? Let's say a gambeson style armor reinforced with wood pieces, wouldn't it be effective?

That's looks like a good hobby

I feel this is a silly question but are you limited to one expansion/contraction link every few rows? Could you put 3, 4 or any number of expansion/contraction links in a particular row to quickly adjust the size?

Could you provide the link to the website you bought the links from? Thanks a lot!

You sir, have WAAAY too much patience

Hi Lindybeige, assuming you make your own ring from a wire, what particular technique do you use to cut them ? They look like you cut them one by one with pliers, is that so ? Also thank you for the oven trick, I had never heard of that technique but I am eager to try it out!

I have dabbled a bit in making mail stuff, but I haven't gotten hold of any decent quality rings. Perhaps one day. Having a byrnie would be a nice way to counter being stabbed in the gut by nazis at a bus stop.

Use either a pair of needle nose, or mig welding pliers. Lineman's pliers work, but the former two are more dexterous at manipulating the rings.

Would it be better with long-nosed pliers?

Mr. Beige, would you share with us your source for these rings? I've seen people use a power drill to wrap wire around a dowel, but it seems strictly superior to have a manufacturer of some sort for that bit.

Can you go into more detail on the browning process you mentioned? Does it only work on certain types of steel? I tried the temp and times you mentioned on some 14SWG stainless rings and didn't see any difference in the overlap afterwards.

It occurs to me that the mathematics of mail construction is the same as carbon nanotube and fullerene structure - links with hexagonal symmetry are flat, like graphene, while contractions are pentagonal and have the shape of an icosahedron corner (think 20 sided die) seen in buckminsterfullerene and expansions have heptagonal symmetry and cause saddle shapes that are seen in more exotic fullerenes.

Lindy, you could solder those links very easily and have a mail that will actually provide defense against real historical weapons.

I am new and was wanting to make my own could you tell me what I type and size of chain loops I should get ?

Do you have any recommendations for what to do if you're going to make your own rings?

where did you get those links? how much, i want them i wanna make a full length hauberk with attached coif and mantle

Apparently I have been waiting since Nov 27th for the third mail video :p

Hi, man! Just wondering, where did you purchase your rings?

Lindybeige, assuming you are using steel, won't heating it to such temperature without cooling it imidiately make it much more soft?

Where does when get the high quality links which you are using?

do you make your links of chainmail or buy them?

What size chain links are you using?

totally honest. In my own projects. I might do 1 straight line as a starting point, or something to set the length (like start with a chain belt, and then expand up and down to make the shirt and whatnot.) Trying to link 2 completed lines together is a nightmare, and takes a literal eternity (is also significantly harder for riveted mail) Triangle method is actually the best 1, yet sadly no guides on say Instructables show it (and I wasted a hell of a lot of time, and effort on several early projects... doing it "wrong")

What term do you use to search for these types of rings? Chain mail rings? Also, is there a plastic version that someone can just get a feel for before going all out and investing in lots of these?

Do you make your own link/rings or do you buy them. If so then were do you buy them from.

I am currently trying to make a Coif. I have tried like a dozen times with several different styles. I like the way the round and round top looks better than the 6 triangles that I have seen stitched together. I get the idea of expansions but I seem to lose my place all the time. so one side of the pattern looks bigger than the other. Do you have any pointers? I didn't see that you had a video of the very top of the coif.

You should do 8 in 2 mail it's really fun

lovely and good to know for when i am going to make a coif ^_^ first have to finish the 6in1 european chainmail vest XD