I’ve been too busy to make a video, but I put down everything when I saw this in my feed. Excellent discussion, my friends! You’re both wrong: Crokus is based on ME as an idiot, clueless teenager. Ah, well, we seem to have survived. This was definitely the highlight of my day - thanks, gents!
@@shawngillogly6873 Correct! Steven Erikson made remarks on the topic in one of his interviews with Claudia, I believe. But I’ve definitely heard that Circle Breaker is a sort of authorial witness, and you can see it especially at the end of GotM.
YES! I very selfishly cannot wait for this to translate into book sales which should translate into trade paperbacks and maybe even a special edition hardcover?!... maybe?!...
You all probably dont care but does anyone know of a tool to get back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me!
@Jayceon Dean thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Thank you so much guys for making Malazan so popular (for the lack of a better word) on RU-vid. I started reading last March and I'm on Book 7 currently. When I searched for things on Malazan when I started I only found some reviews and Iskar was the only person who had a dedicated Malazan channel back then. Seeing so many people come into the Malazan group and talking, analysing and saying things that I myself want to say but never could as good as them, just makes me so happy. I just wanted to thank you guys for doing this.
Ugh. I've read Gardens of the Moon so many times, at least 5, maybe 6. Kruppe's character, I think, benefits most from each reread. His dreams are so well done once you understand what happens later in the books.
Exact same reason here too. It was either reread asoiaf for the 3rd time or find something else that is epic and intimidating. I just finished gotm and it seems i have accomplished just that.
Fantastic conversation! What’s funny is that I listened to this, the stream on Philip’s channel, and all the podcast episodes from Ten Very Big Books for GotM and I still don’t understand it all. 😂 It excites me rather than turning me off it, though.
It's because just about everyone you mentioned were on their first or second read and have no real grasp on the series yet. Ten Very Big Books is probably the most popular Malazan anything right now, but if you listen to it to learn things then you will be surely disappointed. I would make different recommendations as I think that podcast actively makes the series even more confusing, because no one on that podcast has any clue about anything having to do with the series most weeks.
@@darksaint0124 Do you have other recommendations? I think that I see what you mean about Ten Very Big Books. They always take away information from chapters that I just didn’t see myself. Makes me even more confused as you suggested. On the same note, I started reading wiki chapter summaries, and the information they provide always clicks and makes sense to me. But I’m weary of going there because I’m afraid of spoilers.
If you've only read GOTM, nothing you watch about GOTM is going to make you understand really what's going on. You need the full series as context before you really understand fully. That's what is good about rereads!
ICE books are written with much simpler style and storyline, but the first 2 are rough reads. They're enjoyable (I personally love them for the plot and setting), but the prose and characters are whacky and ICE takes a bit more to get his feet right than Erikson. After those two books though, he gets better and better and better. I've always put it this way - with SE you get incredible theme work, poetic prose and thorough character introspection, coped with philosophy and out of this world action and culminations. With Esslemont you get outstanding descriptions and setting building, more direct prose and dialogue, clearer explanaitons and reveals, coped with great horror themes. You read Erikson for voice and impact. You read Esslemont for athmosphere and lore. I of course prefer Steve, but I honestly enjoy the hell out of ICE too. Glad you're enjoying Gardens and spreading interest in Malazan in such a big community. Awesome talk guys!
Esslemont also is very bad at action, something which Erikson excels at. While Esslemont is getting better as a writer it doesn't seem natural to him and sad to say I don't think he will ever be as good as Erikson.
@@darksaint0124 Nah, I disagree, Esslemont has some of the best feel, atmosphere and setting descriptions of a fictional world I've read in the genre, if not the best. Not to speak of how well he portrays horror. When it comes to all this, he is not just equal, he is better than Erikson. But if we are talking action (I mean how do you write action as Steve, he is ridiculously good), character or theme work, I do agree, though again, Esslemont still improves in these fields in latter books. I personally often can't stand his dialogue in the earlier entries (NoK and RotCG), but that problem is gradually becoming extinct with each following novel, and PtA is on a whole different level. And, just as the main series, ICE is better on rereads. As I said, Erikson is a beast and I prefer him, but ICE deserves more recognition as an author, not as an equal, but as a good one, who is unfortunate enough to be compared to one of the very best. I also always hated that comparison, they created and shared with us this incredible, one-of-a-kind world together and I'm infinitely thankful to both.
@@hopeprevails3213 you are wrong. I get that this is an opinion thing, but just go back and read Esslemont's first 6 books, those are bad. Generally terrible. He does get better with his next 3, but sorry, "the best in the genre," leave the crack alone. Esslemont writes like an amateur, I get that you like it, but dude...
@@darksaint0124 Lol I never said he is the best in the genre, did you even understand my comment? ICE is fine, he is a good writer, but he is far from the best lmfao. I just said he is extremely good with atmosphere, horror and description, which is like obvious, look at BaB for example, the world will feel as alive as ever in his books. Everything else he lacks, especially in the early books. Literally said just this. But terrible? Writing like an amateur? I don't think you've read books from amateurs. I can agree the first 2 have visible and genuine problems, they were written in the 90s, but to say all of his books are bad... that's just "bruh". You are inclined to your opinions tho, so leave it as it may.
in retrospect i think Crokus was Erikson's way of making fun of the chosen one trope. choosing a teenage boy to hold some sort of special power as 'coin bearer' is really the dumbest idea, as depicted.
I do not understand why people say Steven Erikson doesn't do character work! I LOVE his character work - he doesn't spend whole paragraphs explaining the thoughts of the characters, but that work is there - sometimes in just a single line! And that is proof of his ability to write.
This is my first epic fantasy after basically Harry Potter, LOTR, and Six of Crows. I have finished Deadhouse Gates and can't wait for reading the remaining books.
Wait until you meet Itkovian in Memories of Ice. Quite possibly my favorite character in any media, ever. This character, since I first read him, about 6 years ago, has shaped who I am as a person. Or at least I'd like to believe. I'm re reading this series. Hope you all enjoy guys.
Especially after Deadhouse Gates. I think the whole Coltaine saga really primes the reader to be fully impacted by Itkovian. Easily one of the most amazing characters ever written.
@@MrThecunninglinguist Yes. I've never thought of that, but as I'm reading through the Chain of Dogs now, I can certainly glimpse that connection. Cannot wait until Mike gets through Deadhouse, so much to discuss. Lol.
Not sure how this would go over with this audience, but I'd love an anime adaptation of Malazan. A really respected studio that will keep to the tone of the story (think Bones, MAPA, Madhouse etc). Massive, long stories with an insane amount of characters is something anime does better than any other medium IMO.
The video I’ve been waiting for! Love both of you and Iskar is a great guy. Love his videos and Malazan. Saw this video in maths and wanted to drop it lol and watch this
Genuinely surprised by Iskar Jarak not having yet even tried the full re-read with Esslemont interspersed. In fact, I'm surprised with any diehards that haven't at least tried it. I understand the reading tone and you can most certainly feel the writing style difference, but what got me sold on that read-through style is that I more appreciate the personal growth of both writers., the refinement of their skill. Appreciate the Malazan content, many thanks.
Great talk! I just finished GotM and I am definitely going to continue reading! Crone and Kruppe are definitely my favorite characters. I just love how he talks about himself in the 3rd person. Also this series is so out there and I am totally on board. Looking forward for what's to come and watching the rest of your videos!
Finally finished GotM and loved it. I had not heard of the series until you announced the read along. So glad I can now check out all of your spoiler content for the book. I enjoyed this discussion.
So excited to see this readathon happening. I started the MBoTF series in 2019 and made it to book nine when COVID hit and that totally sideswiped me. Working in a hospital, I just didn't have the mental energy to give the last two books the attention to detail they needed. But I loved the series and it shot up to my #1 favorite fantasy series of all time. This is giving me the kick in the pants to finish the last two books.
(The_Shake here) Thanks Mike and Sarge for this fantastic talk. The last discussion was important about matching hardcover. I hope your channels and all the new readers create a critical mass that got attention by the publishers since the subterranean press are not affordable for a normal worker. @Mike I am impressed how much you already get on your first read.
10:10 Steven Erikson has said he used the preambles as a blueprint for writing each chapter. In general, the cards seem to relate what will happen over the next couple of chapters. Paran points this out when he sees Anomander. The Sci-Fi and Fantasy Read Along podcast does a good job of analyzing these as they read each chapter. They also analyze the cards from the Deck as well.
I've done the ultimate reading order a couple of times. It's totally not necessary. Especially first time through. The ICE stuff is great for filling in corners of the world. I think he really comes into his own with the Paths to Ascendancy.
Been waiting for this video for so long. You know Mike is the real deal when a video upload has this magnitude of an effect on your excitement. Legit channel here, folks!
You should def keep these videos monetized. Today, I've notice that RU-vid is just INUNDATING me with ads though and it's really screwing these discussions up as I'm listening while doing something else! Love the content, thanks for the vid!
Watching these channels discussing Malazan I start to wonder what I have read, because I never saw it as difficult. I got in to the series around book 5 and then just before the release of the next book i reread the series so GoTM I have probably read 5 or 6 times and listening to you guys I realize I have missed so much! I have to read them again! Good thing we're still in some kind of isolation ;-)
I think there needs to be a ‘buyer beware’ on this novel, because this book isn’t for everyone who likes fantasy. I second the theory the ‘fear mongering’ helped you be fully prepared to read this. We just need to find a balance to prepare someone like you, without going overboard. It’s not gate keeping, but it can come across that way.
the flip side of that is, as said in the video, it will put people off reading the series. I'm not saying we should go around saying it is an easy read, but we should be saying its complex yes, but worth it. not focusing on it being difficult.
There’s definitely a balance there. Telling a new reader they won’t understand anything until their 4th re-read might be a tad too much but they should also be prepared that this is a series that requires your time, dedication, and 100% focus.
Great video, really enjoying the content from you, Iskar Jarak m Phillip Chase and AP. Can't wait for you to get to MoI, its where I think you see the scale that Erikson is going for and how all the story lines interlink!
Nobody ever mentions in reviews of this book about the Black Moranth slaughtering 18thousand+ of citizens of Pale as "Payback" and the back round to all that!! as it turns out to be an awesome story that gets fleshed out in OST.
The most un-talked of part of this book is the Slaughter(payback) of 18thousand+ citizens by the Black Moranth in Pale after the mage battle and the city has already fallen.. and them(the Black Moranth) letting Whiskeyjack know that he can depend on them(wink wink) regardless of if they are expelled from the Empire and that they(the Blacks) were themselves fighting a proto civil war against the Gold Moranth(The Nobles of the Moranth!). Loved the Orb Sceptre throne story that involved and fleshed out that whole angle..
The poetry excerpts at the head of each chapter and partition are nice little gems, too. You don't hear alot of people mention them. Kind of hard to appreciate on a first read, as you're mostly just trying to adapt to the storyteller's unique format, and absorb as much you can. Some of these excerpts are deeply moving in later books, though, as I recall. I would love to get my hands on a copy of Gothos' Folly or the writings of Fisher KelTath.
@@fantasticphilosophy181 I wouldn't be surprised if we did. Erikson is engaged with his audience in a refreshing way, and I think realizes that readers are ever eager to keep gnawing on the bones of the Malazan Empire.
Great video Mike!! Have you heard from Iskar recently? He kind of just quit making videos without any word. Just was curious if you knew how he was doing or if he was coming back
I also read Malazan after ASOIAF while waiting for the Windows of Never... IMHO Malazan is the greatest series I have ever read; it has ruined fantasy for me because everything else feels slow and simplistic in comparison!
I'm finding it funny what is considered a "veteran" in our community. Honestly the amount of people that have popped up in the last couple of months who have only read the series once and retained very little somehow jumping to the f ont of the queue is frightening.
