Malazan chat with Steven Erikson and A.P. Canavan (spoiler free) 

I feel like the only one who hasn't gotten to speak with Mr. Erikson yet ha ha. Thanks so much for this and, of course, for the shoutout. You are a gentleman and a scholar, Philip.

I love seeing Erikson getting the recognition he deserves for a frankly insanely good series.

Top left guy sounds smart, he should write a book series or something.

You are too kind to even include me in the list and for you and SE to say such nice things is a true honor! This was a really interesting conversation and I am so grateful for the ongoing contributions to the conversation. My big question is, when are we gonna get that AP Bookshelf Tour?! That thing has everybody salivating! 🙏❤️💪🙌 I’m glad you asked about the other philosophies... Ruthan Badd has seen a lot of parallels with Hindu and Buddhist traditions in storytelling that he’s talked about in a few videos too, so you guys seem to be onto something. Appreciate ya!

Also, can I say that I loved APs point about how abstracting real life events into a fantasy setting really let’s you take an objective look at things that we can then bring back to our own world that lets us avoid the major pitfalls of considering something with all of the baked in cultural and societal preconceptions that we already have. Great point and I think that’s one of the things that Malazan does so well. He should make a channel-I could listen to him talk fantasy and books and literature all day!

Really fantastic seeing Mr Erikson engage with his fandom! Such a cool guy.

Ruthan Badd here. On the issue of pronunciation, an important thing to remember is that the language characters speak in the Malazan books is NOT English, and therefore pronunciation rules of the English language don't necessarily apply there, unless the argument is that the Elder Gods, Jaghut, Imass, Humans etc all speak English. In my native tongue for example, Tamil, it's completely normal for the "an" to be pronounced with an extra emphasis on the "aan" part when we refer to something that originates from somewhere. If something was from "Malaz", most Tamils would pronounce it as "Malazaaaan" (Like I do). I'm quite sure that even within the novels themselves, there are characters from different nations, warrens, races etc who pronounce "Malazan" in different ways, instead of just the conventional English way of saying it. I don't think a fisherman from Itko Khan for instance, will pronounce Malazan the same way a Forkrul Assail would. So if your mother tongue is English, I can see why the whole "Malazan" because of "Malaz island" would hold true. But there are other readers (Counsellor of Moonspawn is a great example where she's read the German versions and she therefore says Yaghut instead of Jaghut, Cotillio instead of Cotillion etc) whose pronunciations will inevitably be determined by what their first language is.

Fantastic, Erikson and A.P.'s back-and-forth was an absolute joy to sit in on!

Mr. Erikson and A.P. both seem like such friendly and funny people, and a delight to have a conversation with. Thank you for this video.

The Malazan books seem to have got an undeserved reputation as difficult which I never could understand. I loved the books the first time I read them and couldn't put them down. I'm on my third re-read now and still can't understand it. Series like WoT are so much more difficult to get through (the slog...). Malazan has interesting characters, humor, action, and simply human life. What's so difficult? In my opinion this is the best book series of all time, across all genres.

Congrats Philip on getting a top class fantasy author on your channel! That's fantastic and an excellent job interviewing. I'm so happy to be along for the Malazan journey. 150 pages in and liking Gardens of the Moon very much already.

A.P. needs a BookTube channel with his insights (definitely the right word), gorgeous bookshelf, and hilarious stories! This was such a delightful conversation. I knew it wouldn't be long before you had Steven Erikson as a guest. I always enjoy listening to him discuss his writing, influences, and background. I love when authors so generously engage with their audience, and I hope he knows many others feel the same way. Philip, I absolutely loved how you brought up 'the wave' analogy in relation to Malazan. A.P. brought up how fantasy world-building allows us to expand our myopic views and encompass other perspectives as well as other possibilities (particularly when tropes are subverted). The shift in perspective from the small "me"/single wave to an expansive world/vast ocean definitely seems to apply here. I couldn't help but think about music when A.P. discussed context. There are definitely pieces of music that are immediately gratifying to listen to. Then you learn Beethoven was deaf when he wrote that piece, the evolution of the orchestra at the time, form deviations (akin to trope subversion), various interpretations, etc. The experience becomes richer and more meaningful.

I remember trying to start reading this series back in 2000ish. Admittedly it was to difficult for me to read and my level of enjoyment and comprehension made me quit. Recently since I fell out of love with reading, I decided to use my audible freebie on The first book. I noticed I missed out a bit, but this time I wanted to go back. Researched and found your site and Mikes and now I want to read again. Started over and now I’m blown away. Thank you so much for bringing back my love for reading.

I know Steve has said he likes to go hang out and write in coffee shops. Judging by all the podcasts he's done lately I think he's really missing being with people. So awesome to see him more and more.

It made me sad to hear Mr. Erikson say that he has given up on fantasy being given the proper analysis from academia. I hope that AP and yours conversation will spark more scholarly discussion. Great video. I hope you have the chance to make it to the conference to have a face to face with them both. Have a great new year.

This video taught me how to say Malazan. Talking about the pronunciation in regards to Malaz helped. Now I just need to remember to say it right 😅

I’m nearing the end of Memories of Ice. 200 pages left. This book is one of the best I’ve read. Looking forward to finishing it!

This is a really great discussion! Still early in my Malazan journey, but am loving it so much! I hope they continue to grow in the popularity they really deserve.

Awesome interview! I love both of those gentlemen and am looking forward to anything that sheds more light on their thoughts processes!!! Thank you 😊

It occurs to me, when Mr. Erikson talks about the lack of real-world shared knowledge between a fantasy author and their reader, that this may be part of why fantasy has a reputation for leaning on tropes more. Tropes are the shared nonreal world knowledge that an author and reader can lean on. Things like the existence of extramaterial realms, multiple intelligent humanoid races, what a dragon is like - these are tropes that an experienced fantasy reader brings with them into a new novel and take the place of real world knowledge like how cars or guns work and what new york looks like.

You have absolutely annihilated it with this end of the year content! What a fantastic interview!

I've never seen an author put in facetime with people like Erikson. Gotta give him props for promoting and discussing his stuff even with the little people. (No offense)

Love the little dig at George Martin 😂 10 years is a long time

He’s an absolute Don if I put it bluntly. Mr. Eriksons work changed my life as young man. Class channel & thanks for the other channel recommendations

I don’t think the term “hate boner” applies better to anything than to Steve’s hatred for Star Trek: Discovery.

What an interesting conversation to listen to! Thanks a lot for arranging and sharing it, I really appreciate it. I started the Malazan series a couple of months ago and just finished MoI. It was a joyful and stimulating experience listening to your discussion of it on A.P.'s channel. I wish I could keep up your pace of one book a month but as I am reading other stuff in parallel as well, it's not likely to happen. However, it is great to know that your talks will be waiting for me after each book. Keep up the good work, you are creating valuable content for which many of us are grateful. :)

Awesomest talk! Thank you very much, gentlemen! One thing I've realised about the Malazan is that it reads like a documentary. Yeah, it's tough but it feels so real. E&E, your rule! A.P. is great in his own right as well, fantastic scholar. Philip, many thanks for doing this, keep'em coming! I love your channel)))

Wow, great interview! I'm so glad I checked out your channel. Love it ...

Am I gone full crazy or that's actually Erikson... He is my hero Thank you man ..

Really interesting interview Philip. Especially enjoyed the discussion on using fantasy to show different sides of a real-world scenario, with no prior-assumptions from the reader. I find the overlooking of fantasy as a genre baffling, as it has so much potential to let readers see points of view they wouldn't normally have. More interesting is that people do appreciate fiction in general for this, just not the fantasy subgenre, perhaps its viewed as not being "realistic" enough to do so?

Loved this, thank you so much!

Thanks for this amazing interview!

What a way to start Sunday morning coffee w. this interview w. Erikson and A.P! This interview is thought-providing to re-think how Fantasy genre could be perceived from the reading experience. The main takeaway for me is that Fantasy genre can be explored more seriously, if one were to examine beyond the abstractions of magic, monsters and demos, one could potentially introspect a deeper layer of meanings of lives, which is a wondrous discovery in my "beginner" level of Fantasy reading journey that merely started less than 2 years ago. I'm so glad that I'm a "tiny bit" leveled up, to be reading Chapter 14 of Gardens of the Moon currently. After hearing other topics discussed around Malazan series, I'm utterly intrigued and convinced to be devoting more time to finish the series, slowly :-), in the next year or 2. Ha ha... Thanks Philip for the wonderful video. Moving onto your other videos next. :-)

I just finished viewing it, it was extremely beautiful and fun. It had serious topics and fun ones. It was refreshing and funny and I loved every minute of it. It's a fantastic formula, can't wait to see you all discussing again. Thank you Philip for this, thank you AP and thank you SE :) AP and Steve have a wonderful friendship, full of shenanigans and mischief, like a proper friendship must be :) . Everything I've seen here was heart warming and soothing for the soul and mind. I could listen to you guys forever. Thank you, again to all of you for this wonderful surprise. Lots of love to all of you!

Awesome!! Can’t wait to watch this

A. P is just golden! As a fellow Irishman it's great to see a bitta banter with him and Erickson :P

I really enjoyed the brief conversation on the relationship between the author and the reader, and who is “right” (using pronunciation as the example). While there is a place for academic analysis, IMO, the individual experience is more important. Reading is a (albeit limited) form of role playing; the reader is not a passive actor in the story. When I read a story, I bring my own unique set of experiences that alters the “reality” of the story. When I read VE Schwab’s Vicious earlier this year, the story was an homage to Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein; and this interpretation may be unique to me. My experience is shaped by my past experiences, regardless of the author’s actual intent or vision. Thank you Philip for creating this wonderful forum to think more deeply about masterpieces such as the Malazan series. 🙏

I'll be brief: this made my day. As illuminating as it was entertaining. Keep up the good work, Philip!

Hi, just wanted to say that I think your channel is really great. A.P. is a very nice and, competent interlocutor (like Erikson too), I also subscribed to his channel, as well as other youtubers who report on Erikson and the Malazan Empire. I've been a fan of Steven Erikson's books for a long time now, and I'm glad to see that there are more and more youtubers which are fans and love the books like me. I read “The Gardens of the Moon” for the first time in 2012 when I was still studying at university. This is the third time I'm reading the book and I'm still discovering new things. Unfortunately, the Malazan empire is still an insider tip among fantasy fans, I hope that will change in the future.

What a pleasant surprise to end the year on! Did not expect when you said this might happen it would be your next video. 😆 I do hope it's gratifying for Steven that his books are garnering this attention at the moment, even if it is a bit late. Although us fans are quite numerous, a more widespread acknowledgement by the public and academia seems appropriate to me. And I hope all this attention will help his works outside the main Malazan books as well! The discussion about authors and academic research is interesting. As a simple reader I tend to disregard what I might know about an author when reading mostly so I can appreciate a story on its own merits. When it comes to academic interpretation however, I can see direct contact with authors can be both very valuable and fraught with pitfalls. Depending on the author much of the inspiration, influences and writing process can be very personal information, possibly even subconscious. Digging into that can't be easy for either side. When it comes to interpreting work all information is of value, however. So getting it from the source will always be good. Even if I don't believe everything an author says about their work should always be taken as gospel. Loved this, and do hope all three of you will resume this discussion once you and AP have covered all the rest of the books - and I do hope you two will continue on beyond the Books of the Fallen. Kharkanas, Rejoice and no doubt the upcoming books all certainly warrant deeper understanding as well. For now a big thank you three times over, and hope the new year will be wonderful to you all. PS; I'm a Next Generation guy, and Discovery isn't up to scratch 😉

This conversation is pure gold. Great work!

Love the shoutout to Thich Nhat Hanh and Buddhism. Interesting interview!

ICFA’s the best! Looking forward to the virtual conference this month, but super excited to (hopefully) gather in person next year!

Never read any Erickson books but definitely going to in time. It was interesting hearing Robert Sawyers named being mentioned in passing. Sawyer was the reason I started reading again 4 years ago.

Oh, this was awesome! I can't believe how many things I have in common with AP :))) From my hatred of heat, to the toilet trials, to the problem with energy drinks (which I have stopped consuming years ago). This was an amazing conversation!

You've officially achieved Dreamland material, nothing else would surpass this... ... Could you by any chance bring Ian as well?

I can't wait to start reading the series

Thank you Phillip for the video! It was great!

Gotta love getting to fanboy. Glad you were able to hold this and props to it not being a stale “Where’d you get your inspiration?” interview.

It’s amazing to see others discover this series that really dominated my love of fantasy for over a decade. And as always, props to Steven for being so willing to engage with his audience! Follow him on Facebook if you want to get more from the horse’s mouth.

I have just made it to the point where you speak about Malaz island and Malazan and the pronunciation of it, and I could help giggle thinking of how someone like me (and the many Italians and Spanish and French), who speaks a Romance language, reads it differently, and how an inhabitant of Malaz would still be a Malazan, but it would sound different :))) It's been fun so far, listening to the interview :)

AP flexing that Sub Press Gardens of the Moon in the background lol

Thanks Mr erickson!!!! I have read the series and esselmonts series repatedly!!!! This is the best out there, you even beat Tolkien

Before the Famine we had roughly 8 million people now it's just above 5 million. Great talk, I'm on Deadhouse Gates right now and really enjoying it so far.

ChildofHonour from Discord here! You're spoiling us with this Malazan content haha!

Simply amazing chat.

It’s quite sad hearing Erikson speak of The Crippled God receiving little fanfare/response upon its release. It seems like he is now getting more of the recognition he deserves.

This is extremely refreshing. I have immense respect for Steven Erikson.

Genius Writer.

This is awesome, thanks Philip!

Thank you great conversation with 3 educated people

I will definitely reread the story of apto canavalian soon, probably even this week.

I love Malazan. Cant get enough of the content as of late. I have been enjoying the Ten Very Big Books shows as well, and Erikson has done an episode with them for each book. Finished The Crippled God about a month ago. Cant wait to reread the series in time, as well as the Kharkanas and Karsa trilogies.

This is so cool, Philip! Way to go!

Loved this. In particular, I would love to hear more about Donaldson in general and the influences on Erikson and Esslemont. I read Cook before Erikson and I think he's the one who gets cited more often as being an influence, but then I read the Covenant books and I began to realize how many homages to Donaldson were in their books. And to think I used to think Erikson used the word "febrile" a little much...

If anything I want to apologize to Mr.Erikson I didn't start his series earlier, actually, I'm disappointed in myself that I didn't. What finally pushed me to start this great series tbh is a selfish reason. I spent years building my own fantasy world and I wanted to learn how to put what I worked very hard on to paper and to learn how to write in general as someone with English as his second language. Starting Gardens of the moon I was amazed at how rich this book is, each chapter presented me with a treasure box of words and sentences for me to work on and analyze. The insight I got from the books I read so far can't be measured, not to mention the character work and philosophical concepts are just a delight and a treat to the reader. I went through most of this masterpiece in the last few months, and I don't even need to finish to just go on record without a doubt in my mind and say The Malazan world is one of the best if not the best fantasy had to offer in my opinion. As soon as I'm finished with The Crippled God I'm going to get back to writing my novel again I'm sure the second draft will be much better because of Malazan and Mr.Erikson... Truly, Thank you!!

I'm angry with myself that I kept this video in "Watch Later" for a long time. It's always pleasure to listen to Mr. Erikson, and now that two of you joined him, it was two levels higher. Please repeat this for every book you read (once a month?).

Really nice 👍

Ten very big books is an awesome channel. I love listening to noobs talk about how much they hate the series. That channel definitely captures the average audience reader quite well.

the way AP and Erikson riff on each other is priceless. I would love to be a passenger in a car with them on a long road trip and just listen in on their banter

Hey Dr Chase! A bunch of the channel links in the description aren't working for me - 404'ing out. Not sure what's wrong and if it's on my end or yours, but might want to double check. (And One again, wow, what a discussion thanks so so much for having us along)

Fun talk! Was this the origin of calling AP Professor Fireballs? (I’m going through your older Malazan videos as I build up the courage to read the series!)

I want to see AP & Steven hang out more. Now I get why he writes buddies that argue so well :)

I've been telling anyone with ears for nearly a decade, since I first discovered this series, that this series is hand down the best fantasy I've ever read. All respect to those that paved the way and are great in their own right, but malazan is so far above the rest there is no comparison.

Oh, the IAFA. Haven't thought of that in ages. I went there in the 90s as a grad student. Such a good time. Met Donaldson and Pohl there. Love to go back someday.

Interesting to hear authors, and one who is an academic, talk about literary analysis and criticism. I have never understood any paradigm of analysis that doesn't make the author's intentions central. As in, what the author had in mind to communicate, is what it means (meaning can of course be poorly communicated, or misunderstood for many reasons). I take this as axiomatic when reading. Interesting to hear that even Erikson felt the need to provide an explanation of "contextualization" to defend the author's place in analysis.

I finally made it and loved it!

I just started Memories of Ice for Mikes read along. Last night. 25 pages in whoop whoop!

A wonderful discussion on author reader relationsship. And of course the complete discussion between the three of you was a blast to listen to. I do differ a bit with SE about the difficulty of writing fantasy and other fiction though. I think it's easy to write fantasy, but hard to write good fantasy that is theme heavy and can be seen as a reflection of the world. For example, like the story you told in a previous video about the city where they had to sacrifice one persons life to enjoy life. It is a shame that these kind of stories do not occupy more of literature discourse. On the other hand, a contemporary or fictious story within the real world has benefits, as everything is known, but it also has drawbacks, as the writer will have to struggle with preconceptions of the reader. I think this is one of the reasons why the scify book Rejoice from SE didnt do as well, as expected. The book is seen, in many reviews, as a celebration of socialism/marxism as the alien provides for everything, while country leadership is often seen as inept (in the book). It's a nice set up, but I am wondering how many people will read and continue with any forthcoming books in this series.

Steve's dry wit cracks me up haha!

Oh wow, another author chat!

Since Gaiman was mentioned in the academic conference/convention bit twice, I think Gaiman's Sandman has been tremendously detrimental to the medium as a whole just because of academia's obsession with not looking past his work. I really had to push my friends a lot to move past Sandman (and Watchmen, Persepolis) to move to more stuff in the medium. Finally designed the module and started exploring Perez, Azarello, and Rucka's treatment of Wonder Woman for my friends to teach to their students, because that is somehow basic yet somewhat familiar for everyone for me to recommend this and get away with it. Hopefully, I might decide to teach Astro City myself next year but, yeah, academia ended up using Gaiman's Sandman to created this aura of canon legitimisation, which is basically a nice way of describing gatekeeping.

I gotta say that erikson, just behind sanderson is the most thoughtful author when it comes to talking to the audience. Totally different style of engagement obviously, but it's wonderful to see authors speak and interact with their fans, I wish more would do this sort of thing Ken liu is another one I've seen a lot of recently

He did it, the madman did it!!! Congrats!!!

BIG UP ISKAR!!!!!!!

Is there a secret warren constantly refilling mr. Eriksons coke? Thought he went for the last sip like seven times... Jokes aside, I love this content. As a non-native english speaker, Malazan is a challenge; but the many rewards make it a worthwhile endeavor. It's fascinating to experience a work of fiction that feels truly endless in its possible interpretations. Eriksons world is truly awesome, and I feel like it'll continue to amaze me through my entire life.

Just finished Malazan, and have now decided to move onto the Stormlight series. By all accounts it’s also an exceptional series, but I’m worried that Malazan may have set the bar too high :o

SE brings an interesting point about having to write in a real life event and to bury it deep so that the reader reads with without the influence of pre existing bias/prejudice. It works for specific events but generally people also tend to have bias towards certain actions irrespective of the event. They would tend to lean towards compassion or bravery and other actions they would consider "noble" This is where writing/reading morally grey characters becomes so fascinating. To be able to write a character well to such an extent that the reader likes or supports a character despite knowing all the flaws they possess is not easy.

Indeed, the population of Ireland (Republic of and Northern combined) is around 2 million less now than at its height in the 1840s. Of note is that while the populations of the urban centres (Dublin and Belfast) grows the fastest, that in the Western counties (the most rural) continues to fall.

A.P. gives an excellent synopsis at 53:35 of what sets the characterization in MBoTF, apart from some of the simplistic "Hero worship" writing of the good vs evil stereotypes found in some fantasy

"steve is meticulous about planning" ya don't say...?

Holy Guacamole, I'm on this right now! :)

Regarding lack of mysogeny in the books (unless its intended by specific cultures/people) its great, that Malazan do not hit you in the face with it. Malazan empire treats woman as equal to man, including the army, and it is so obvious to everyone in that world, that it's not even being discussed. It's just there.

This video really made my day. :)

22:00 one advantage of having the authors is that you can tell how many "the curtains were blue" moment there were!

Oh, THAT'S how it's pronounced, and the WHY of it. Now it all makes sense. Because I was going to keep just calling it what I liked, but now the switch flipped.

Steve is totally the straight man to A.P.'s comic relief haha You can tell they've been friends since forever!

I am not sure what Steven Erikson's Malazan stories make fly after all this time. But I'd wish the same could happen to the late David Gemmell who was also a master story teller ... and whose stories could be contained in a single book :)

Holy shit the Malazan pronunciation never occurred to me that way

the last 20 minutes of this conversation might as well be an entirely new novel series, set in modern day earth, as written by Steven Erikson. he's hitting all the points noted by every reader of MBOTF. leaving info behind, meticulous planning, revenge plot, long travels.... it's all there, baby!