So we did the Honda and Lily videos and in both peopled asked for a followup for Manon so here we are! Manon is... bad. You can make a real easy argument for her being the single worst character in Street Fighter 6. If anyone is in line for buffs in SF6 season 2 she would be the one. However what do you do? Her character design is so aimless and random what do you even target? So as with the other videos(linked in the vid description) lets talk about fun but fair buffs for the character that help her identity, and help her not be hot garbage lol
I think a good buff for her would be to make ex spin connect of st lp. They did it for ed in sfv which added consistency and because it was attached to a lp it didn't do too much damage into ex psycho uppa.
And that's why they made the right decision to let people figure things out over time instead of making kneejerk balance changes based on the community's dumb takes.
And there's Tekken 8 after two months of release, there's already more than one balance patch and Bamco still can't find a solution to fix the game's problem....
It's wild to see the disparity in anti-fireball tools in this game; Manon and Jamie have double-digit unsafe get-in tools that are weird to use, meanwhile Cammy is out here pressing 214HP and a whole +3 on block for being wrong
What’s better is that Capcom made an effort to weaken anti-fireball tools for most of the cast then created a character that’s almost nothing but fireballs.
I love when people who use top tiers feel threatened by giving a grappler any buffs at all. "Yeah, my guy has projectiles that can dominate the screen, a teleport, and a full screen Level 3, but if she hits her command throw 4 times it'll be really scary from the 5th time onwards!" "I've got options at just about every range, plenty of moves that leave me plus on block, and I can burn Drive gauge for bonus damage, but you want to let a grappler have options against projectiles?!"
John Velociraptor from EventHubs fits this description lol. He uses JP and plans to use Akuma (of course) and he always complains about grapplers being decent or getting any buffs for this very reason.
This “someone must hate xy type character who made xy game and that’s why xy character sucks” is the most senseless bs people started puking out nowadays. Especially after how everyone on release thought for a fair amount of time that Manon is a contender for best character in the game.
Manon and Jamie have the same issue. Without their gimmick, they have to be worse than other characters. The problem is, neither of them are better than other characters when their gimmick is fully online.
jamie is worlds better than manon when hes level 4, hes whole tiers above her. Jamie level 4 gets more options and can do more things, manon level 5 is the exact same character as level 1, just sometimes you do more damage
Yeah like take Gohan from DBFZ for example when it comes to gameplay difference when he has no levels vs when he has level 1, 3, or 7. He goes from a decently mediocre character to an absolute monster. Manon needs to feel like a force to be reckoned with once her stacks are built
Manon is the reason I picked up SFVI, which is the first fighting game I've ever put serious time into. I love that I can build up a resource that carries between rounds so I feel like I was successful even if I lose a round. It's frustrating though that it feels like I can do more damage with Zangief for less effort when compared to Manon. Manon just doesn't get the same reward for getting in that Gief does.
What does gief get for getting in besides returned to neutral? At least when she grabs you you get a medal and becomes more dangerous. All her aa are better than geifs. Her over heads are better than geifs. I. Think she’s better than geif.
@@sidneydykes5032 It's the fact that manon grab movers her forward during the start up. this sounds good on paper but her normal grabs have woefully small range. and her OD does go far but again, can be hit while moving forward. Gief just has a great grab hitbox to begin with. if you space it they can whiff moves against you and still be in light SPD range. Manon grab because it advances forward can be jabbed out by people who mash jab against manon
Giving a little bit more time to cancel lvl 3 from hitgrab would be so good. Sometimes, because the timing is strict, I end up cancelling the hitgrab because I hit the button too early and then she just spins. I lose afterwards
Just press a different punch button, it only cancels the hitgrab if you press the same punch you used for the spin. I always use level 3 with HP because its not how I connect with hitgrab.
@@TrueDemonDragon Yes, but the hitgrab has such a long start, you can do two quarter circles during the animation quite easily. What I do is qcf MP qcf HP dcf HP and I get it everytime no problem. I used to cancel the spin every once in a while, until I realized using any other punch other then the spin will not cancel the hitgrab from coming out. While the first qcf can count, there is nothing stopping you from doing two during the animation.
if you looking to get your grab on theres basically zero reason to pick manon over gief. Although more to the point if you are looking to play street fighter 6 there's basically zero reason to pick manon over ___INSERT CHARACTER HERE____
@jonathancadle1261 if it helps sf6 inputs are very forgiving you don't need the full 360. If you end with any version of up (up backward or forward up) it'll give you the full 360.
Those are excellent points. Unlike Lily and Honda who's flaws are on the design that they have nothing to do, Manon's kit have the potential to work together so well, it just doesn't have the frame data to support it. Like Sin on launch, which they fixed by changing the numbers a bit.
going by the comments I usually get in these style of videos its exactly that. Even right now in the comments you will find people saying manon doesn't need buffs/shes good/etc
Man I'm struggling vs this character any advice? Her grabs are so annoying. It beats my attacks and you can't grab counter them. Plus the damage output is broken
Next video SHOULD be the Eddy Gordo guide! Give me the strength to get it out in time lol. Some people asked for a Zangief video too and maybe, but we will let it breathe a bit first if we do it. Very telling though, Lily, Honda, Manon, Gief... all grab characters, all bad. There's a agenda at play here, season 2 GRAPPLERS RISE UP
Good video as always, and you've perfectly summed up everything wrong with her. Manon is my first grappler character due to her design (I usually play set-play characters), and I was so disappointed when I picked her up. What kind of grappler character has zero ways to enforce strike-throw, on top of every special move being -15 on block (or worse)? You're forced to poke with normals with no safe-on-block buffers, and then you're somehow expected to enforce strike-throw with those minus-on-block normals. Then you'd think she'd have a good drive-rush to compensate and give her a source of plus frames, but it goes nowhere. Yeah, I dunno.
Her anti fireball move needs to be anti fireball lol, she needs counter hit jab to link into something worth a darn, her damage is super low without fully medal command grab. Her footsies is bad because she's negative on everything.
Manon is super dependent on drive usage and yet her drive rush is so bad, she gets punished for getting punished. I still enjoy her gameplay the most but I'll not be going back to SF6 until she gets substantial buffs, it's pretty funny that her buff in the previous patch was literally a bug fix to her level 2 lol
I'm an utter neophyte to fighting games, but I picked up SF6 in December and clicked with Manon pretty quickly (your video going through the roster is what put her on my radar!). I've only been playing online for a month so I can't tell how much of the difficulty I'm having with her in the ranked queue is because I'm new and/or bad and how much is because she's under-tuned. That said I still enjoy playing her, so I'm hoping we do see some buffs when the big patch hits.
@@EXFrost so I hear, yeah. It's why I don't fuss too much about tier lists, since in my case the problem is always between the keyboard and the chair XD
This is my first Street Fighter and Manon is my main. There's so much I like about her, but imo her biggest problem is that her neutral does paltry damage and her frame data is overall pitiful. Literally the only character in the game without a normal or special that's plus-on-block. This means you must use DR to enforce safe pressure, which automatically puts her at a big disadvantage compared to the rest of the roster. She's very meter-hungry. I don't really want crazy oki vacuums either. I'd prefer to see her damage output redistributed if necessary where her whiff punish combos do more damage and her level 4 and 5 command grabs slightly less. She has some very good buttons and in general is great at keeping opponents caged in the corner between her long pokes and her good anti-airs. I'm glad they've improved her level 2 super but would also like her level 1 to have slightly faster startup so it's a viable reversal. I'd also like for her anti-fireball tool to work as advertised. That being said, she also benefits more from perfect parries than most of the roster so I really like that aspect of the character. You need to lab perfect parries for cross-ups and for any annoying/spammable specials your opponent might throw out, but in most cases your reward is a medal which is great. Manon imo just needs a few tweaks to make her a more well rounded character. In general I think the core concept of "judo ballerina" is great and the developers executed it well, but between needing to use DR for safe buttons and having the worst DR in the game, she's not exactly playing the same game everyone else is. Here's hoping she gets the love she deserves in Season 2, but either way she's my main for the forseeable future because there's just so much I like about her.
Agreed about the meter-hungry. The amount of damage you get to her very short and little combo (and no oki) pails in comparison with other characters with the same meter usages
As manon main exclusively day1, i'm so 100% agree the changes. Still I 'm not hoping crazy buff but i just want her something that hard to be punished. Right now everything just too easy to be punished. I need play like very very few mistake if I want to win
I'm in the same boat but in reverse. Started out with Chun, was doing well, then moved onto Lily and Manon as my mains now. All the options I had with Chun really make me feel how limited Lily and Manon are. Yet I've been sticking with them anyway. Getting my ass kicked left and right. Maybe a testament to Capcom character design or maybe I just like playing games on hard mode 🤷
Manon was the character I was most excited to play before the game launched, so she was my day one main. First two months were fun, but I could feel early on I was hitting a wall with this character. If she gets the buffs she needs I will happily play her again! Or Capcom can give her a gun, knife, sword and teleport
Man seeing this vid and remembering how everyone was thinking Manon was S tier in like, the first week-week and a half of the game's lifecycle really reminds you that things can change a lot after an initial opinion
Manon main here ,P5 struggling to get to D rank. My heart bled at every phrase in the intro, and that's because it's all TRUE 😢. Got invested in the character when they first presented her along with Marisa and still have a lot of fun. Sadly, too little time to go with another main so I'll stick to her and hope for buffs. Thanks for the video!
I love Manon's visual design and theme but she feels too limited. In addition to the changes you mentioned, I think it would be fun if spinning a projectile would grant a medal. Might be too much but hey, it's more interesting than just using parry like everyone else.
I want her spin to turn the projectile's back at the person throwing them. I really think that was what the move was meant to do but got turned away from it before release in the same way AKI's Fireball > Whip got the crumple removed but still has the insanely punishable framedata on block. It goes with the Judo theme of using your opponent's force against them and makes sense why on read you'd be able to jump on her. I want that and that's the only change she would need.
In regards to the spin: I wouldn't mind if the duration is more or less the same, but the projectile invincibility for the held version should last for 95% of the move. After all, the held version has no other use than advancing through projectiles. If the recovery gets reduced as proposed in the video it'd lead to goofy situations where she cancels her normals on block and you have to be really quick to register which version it is and potentially leads to stealing turns because you're afraid of the frametrap grab.
Loved the suggestions, I have 2 more options: - have her medals scale better in combos. Like, fully scaled lvl 5 grab deals AT LEAST 50% damage; - make her dash slightly faster.
I've been Master with Manon since December, so I feel like I have a pretty good feel for what fixes she needs. First off, I don't think she necessarily needs new tricks or drastic buffs. Just making Renverse (her spin/hit grab) actually useful to get through projectiles would be huge. I think making one or two more of her normals special/super (not necessarily DR) cancelllable or +OB would be nice. The problem with Manon is that her non-grab damage is pitiful, and her command grabs are easily countered. The risk/reward is rarely worth it for Manon but given her toolkit, she MUST take risks. The vast majority of the roster gets better damage for whole helluva lot less work. The other big issue is her defense. Like... holy hell am I just praying whenever I'm in the corner. She has no DP so wakeup super is the only thing close to that. But thats such a risky/obvious thing to bait out. I feel like either a universal (or character specific) buff to drive reversal could really help Manon here. A big common issue that ties everything together that I've talked about so far is how drive gauge dependent she is. Everyone seems to get oki or side switch or corner carry or big damage with very little drive usage. Manon has to use way more gauge but she gets less out of it than a lot of the roster. Putting it all together then, Manon is a low damage character that is susceptible to burnout/drive impact and whose medal gimmick is very easy to counter. That often forces her to play neutral and have to win so many more interactions in a game where people can just braindead cruise control themselves into a W with a Dee Jay drive rush or any number of cMK into a DR combo. My Manon buffs: - Make Renverse actually good at dodging projectiles - Give her an overall damage boost which I might accept in exchange for a slight damage nerf to her grabs - Make her cMP have a slightly faster startup (1F faster?) - Make cMK special (not DR) cancellable - Buff drive reversal - My craziest buff request: Make OD command grab invulnerable to everything (but at the cost of a medal?)
Question for you. Before I dropped the game because the buffs a QoL changes were trash in that patch I was practicing with s.MK as a punish to opponent’s c.MK which works but realized the b.MK target makes it difficult to get back to N to do so since you’re also forced to not block in that moment to do s.MK. What’s been your experience with this or do you not even bother.
@votes4cows Yeah. It ends up being a very volatile time playing Manon. On a really good day, I've gotten up to 1600 MR. On a very bad day, I've gotten as low as 1300. Can get exhausting often. I can string together quite a number of wins when I get super aggro and gimmicky (by going all in on offense), but it ends up making me feel bored and disgusted with myself lol.
@bqing87 You might get different answers from other Manon players, but I think I rarely use sMK. I think I use it sometimes off a drive rush on their wakeup right into the OD overhead. As for the bMK target combo, I actually use it quite often. Use it for block strings or if they don't block the overhead, I go into a combo. If I've conditioned them to block, then I'll sneak in a command grab by only doing the first hit of the target combo. As for punishing opposing cMK, I really make sure to space them out, keep them out with Manon's cMK, and if they whiff a button, I'll punish with Manon's sHK.
@@thehobojarpenokay. Yeah I was curious because I hadn’t seen too many manon’s trying to wif punish with s.MK which is probably due to what I mentioned above but not really using it at all makes sense outside of combos.
You hit it on the head. The character looks like the devs had an oracle visit them in a whirlwind and tell them “FRENCH GIRL. TOO STRONG. FRENCH GIRL TOO STRONG!” And they got spooked and removed everything she was supposed to be
I tried Manon on launch and while I thought she was more fun than gief she really is a terrible character. Super low mixup potential and absolutely no way to enforce throw other than "f*ck it we ball" throwing out grabs randomly. No plus frames on a grappler is wild and her frame traps aren't even threatening enough to get you to stop mashing anyways
it's crazy stupid how crapcom will design and release a really cool and popular character and then make them suck ingame so nobody wants to play em....like wtf is the point?! also tbf crapcom DOESN'T know how to design grapplers. they always make them slow and hard to do anything with them meanwhile you look at snk and goro (maybe he's op) but clark shermie etc are fun to play with useful normals and ways to make you constantly guess and just a little bit scary to face off against. that's what grapplers should be.
Manon was my day 1 pick and I still only want to play Manon. It is a struggle, the other characters have so much to do and so many ways to disrupt my gameplan and I feel like Manon just gets hit by a truck.
I floundered between Manon... then Lily.... then AKI. It was painful LOL Saving AKI next? Or at least a video going over bottom half of the cast for some buff suggestions?
Aki's fine. Buff heavy whip and she's good. Maybe mess around with her serpent slide reversal thing. But other than that she's fine, very underated character
Making standing medium kick +1 on block would indeed go a long way. And yes, the spin move deserves a complete overhaul-she is a ballerina after all! I'm not sure if this would be game-breaking, but I would take st. MK registering as a "standing low" over cr. MK becoming DR cancelable.
if st mk becomes standing low then it just basically the same as cr.mk drive rush for the other chars (just a worse version). +1 on block gives it more identity than just doing what luke and juri do but worse
I agree with all of these. Some of the QoL changes like making Lvl 3 give out medal won't even suddenly make her OP, but it's just to fix something that often feels more like the game is screwing with you. You are already spending 3 bars, why are you getting extra penalized on doing a super lol. It's annoying because out of the new characters I like Manon's concept and design the most (and I don't even usually like grapplers) but playing with her just feels like a constant upstream battle. Yes, you could win if you could significantly outplay your opponent but that's true for anything.
Making lvl 1 fireball invincible is too much? I will spam the hell out of this since it does actually make a ton of sense, thanks for taking the time to deliver this ❤
iirc every single level 1 in the game is only strike and throw invuln at best. I assume it's by design to make chip damage more threatening when you're in burnout.
the problem is since the beta all level 1's had fireball invuln removed. I think its actually something she should have, but its very apparently something they do not want
@@elim9054which is one of the dumbest decisions in the game’s balance. Not only does this take away things characters could do in other games but the design of her level one makes absolutely no sense. Why does she slide so far if a) she can’t pass fireballs, b) isn’t invincible the whole way through or c) doesn’t recover fast enough to be used as an escape tool. Throw in d) the hitbox is so wonky it doesn’t always connect.
My Manon buff idea: at 0-4 medals, SA3/CA has its current frame data. At exactly 5 medals, the grab is active frame 0 like Zangief's and it can no longer be jumped after the flash. Is this balanced? I don't really know, but I think it would be funny.
It'd be a huge change, but why not have an anti-projectile spin move spin the projectile around and throw it back on the initiator? It immediately solves two problems. Firstly you won't get a situation where the projectile is too slow and hits you anyway since this effect would already have taken place so it'll already be "your" projectile by the time it would've lag-hit you, and secondly it instantly makes the anti-projectile game a particular strong suit since "your" new projectile will cancel out even the next projectile. So it's not just doing what parry could already achieve, but going beyond that and doing far more. There's no problem in this resulting in infinite mirror-match tennis loops since Manon doesn't have her own projectile to launch in the first place, and as for plonking the move on a custom character in world tour mode, that's already way beyond janky unbalance and we all love it regardless so it doesn't really matter. But perhaps the very best thing about this change would be that it would look damn awesome and fitting! You'd probably have to give the returned projectile a few "harmless frames" in order to avoid it looking weird if both players are super close to each other (as in, visually enough time to "go around" her body and actually get flung back)... so those could whiff (but still be successfully dodged). But it'd definitely boost the main anti-projectile situation of being fired at full-screen, anyway.
I'm gonna keep saying it until the heavens hear me, drive rush should've had a standard speed and distance covered from the start of the game. This will buff weak characters who have bad drive rushes and bring in line characters who have outstanding drive rushes. Standardized drive rush brings everyone to a more or less equal scale (barring characters gameplans. Gief will probably get more out of drive rush than JP) and moves can be finetuned after that
The more I listened to your defense plea, the more I felt disgusted/frustrated about the character design and flaws. YES, she is definitely the WORST character of current SF6. I wish Capcom could hear you and make some changes accordingly so we, Manon players, can enjoy the game as much as everyone else !
This is the best video I've seen. I REALLY hope Capcom is paying attention, because what they did to Manon is absolutely insane. I don't think they were thinking when they made her. I know French people are pissed she isn't good. Victor is good in Tekken 8! I love her design, but her ability vs her story doesn't match up at all.
When you were talking about Manon's anti-fireball hitgrab, I was thinking something as simple as giving the cancel recovery frames projectile-invulnerability would make it workable for what it's supposed to serve. It's not like you can't whiff-punish it with a normal anyway. Now that you mentioned decreasing its recovery frames, that would be a fun buff for the fact it'd give her more combo potential.
I really hope you will do the same type of video with Zangief. As a Gief player since street 2 i really would like to see some help for Gief. Not to much but he needs it. Then as a French and a grappler player i was rzally enjoy to see Manon and wanted to play her and Gief. But she needs help too . Even more than Gief .
I think everyone else is pretty functional. Jamie and Kim are just a lil undertuned. But they do what their archetypes set out to do and itd all just be quality of life changes really
Raw punish counter command grab could give 2 medals instead of 1. Will incentivize people to block and help give more opportunities for grabs. I love Manon because her oki is pretty strong, especially mentally. I'd like to lean into that a bit.
Manon main here. Frame 1 anti-air is something on my list as well. I like the target combo, and spin ideas too, but they're similar to the last change she got in that they're kinda things she should already be able to do and wouldn't change her MUs much. The big one here is spin. That move is awful on every level and needs fixing and is the main reason she feels so bad. I'd take projectile invincibility that actually works over being less punishable on block any day, but it is actually kinda crazy how dirty they did her. Especially when compared to Cammy who has a similar style move. I don't think she's actually the worst character, but it is certainly debatable and I'll take it if it means more buffs are justified. I also don't agree with the idea that she's aimless or has difficulty enforcing grabs. Her damage is relatively low, but I think that's more an issue with too many characters getting way too much damage for way too little investment. I do however, think she's one of, if not *the* hardest character to put all the pieces together with before she starts making sense. Appreciate the love you always show to the grab gang. Here's hoping season 2 treat them all a bit better.
I used to be a dedicated manoner, i love grapplers that dont have 360 inputs and i love the gameplan she SHOULD be doing, but she just straight up is not able to play the game properly and having switched to ed, i'm enjoying this game so much more because he is an actual character
If she has 5 Medals and you get Grabbed by her .. I think you deserved the Damage to your Life Bar 😂 she’s been grabbing you 5 times and you still didn’t react or change your game plan knowing she’s a grappler 😂 that’s not an excuse for not giving her Buffs 🤷🏻♂️
As a Manon main, I feel the most annoying thing is her drive rush. I’m not asking it to be the best or even good, it can still be one of the worst. But as of now it is borderline unusable because of how slow it is and how little it travels. I think it should travel the same but at least be a tiny bit faster
Kudos on another great 'rescue a character' video! I've found your character analysis and recommendations some of the best out there. Very thoughtful and reasonable. Hope Capcom is listening.
I agree with giving her a +1 normal so she has an actual strike throw game without drive rush. Idea - Her level 1 super needs to go throw projectiles to help her with zoners. You covered that with her spin and I also wonder why its so bad. She needs a wake up option to get people off her since command grab wont work on wake up like other grapplers.
Manon is the only character I'm interested in using in SF6. I had a lot of fun playing the first couple of months, but I haven't played in SO long because she's so terrible and everyone realized how easy it is to beat her. I'd love to see her buffed and come back to play again. 😔
Easier Medal acquisition using moves outside of her throws. The spin move for example, could get get a medal if successfully punishing the opponent after its use with the follow up kick. With Judo being the theme of her character a medal for countering a throw successfully. As you stated about the level 5 throw being overly scary, if the damage was reduced by 5-10%, but the medals reduced to 3 (with 1st medal at level 2, 2nd medal between 3-4, and 3rd medal at the reduced damage).
I do not know if anyone else commented it but you dont have to spend drive after down back lk to enforce strike throw mixup. You can time her l command grab as a meaty just by walking a bit
I think one more quality of life needed is making 2HP HP more consistent. If it hits early the 2nd one whiffs often. Also I think making 3HK more useful somehow. Maybe make it able to combo into to have more screen control ability. Like DR 2MP link 3HK
finally someone say that. I said that Day 2 of the release of this game and people called me crazy, " how do you know the game just got released blah blah blah say that to Idom blah blah " I was so exited to play her when the game got release. I'm not a top tier player I'm a grappler player and I love playing female characters, and grapplers are NEVER top tier in any game whatsoever. and she was announced to be everything I was asking for, the disappointment was terrible. . just looking at her numbers and frame data comparing to the other players and voilà. she is a grappler with no advantage on block even on hit, she is bad ,her close combat is trash, witch is completely opposite of a grappler. she has good buttons, but at mid distance, witch is useless for her grappling game. she is punishable on almost everything... etc...
Cool to hear your thoughts about buffing her. I remember how super hyped I was about her before release. I even planned on maining her. But in the end she wasn't fun to use. Mostly because what she can do is so strict. Cancel the wrong move into a special and she is like a million minus, because your opponent can just hold back to block that nombo.
I've been a Street Fighter fan since 4. I love the characters and the world but I've always stinked at the games so bad. When I got 6, I played with Manon and made it to Plat which was an amazing feeling. She was the first character I clicked with and made my love of Street Fighter even stronger. I really hope she gets buffs!
I feel like mettle should have other bonuses besides the throw damaged if they’re going to make her require so much setup for meaningful damage she really should be a snowball character that’s hybrid grappler and focus on that element of her kit instead since grapplers in general just struggle in this game
Went from Iron to Platinum w/ Manon. The biggest issue I see with manon is her special attacks all being minus and unsafe. Make her wheel kicks safe. Make her hit-grab travel further so that it can actually dodge. The strongest thing I find about Manon is her burnout pressure. With MP being + on block. You can spam MP and their forced to block. Mix in some command throws once you figure out if they'll jump or block. I would also like to see her to be able to combo into more attacks but not the hit-grab. Her punish game is terrible. She can only combo HK punish with HP which leads into strike/throw mix(which loses to EXDP). You NEED the corner and frame perfect timing to combo HK with BHP. After playing her for so long I started to wonder if people were just not playing enough lily to realize just how bad Manon was.
You are always reasonable with these, and yet, I'm certain the anti-grappler propaganda will probably prevail. The people hate what they don't understand.
I like where this is pushing. That spin cancel is pushing her into Makoto territory... I would love that. I want her to be the rushdown grappler. The fusion of Abel and Makoto. I think the s. Mk buff would be too much due to her target combo. If you make that positive then she has a real throw strike scenario just from having them block her TC. I'm for it lol.
What if you made it so, once you get a medal it changes the frame data, like one frame quicker for 2 and 3 medal and then 2 frames quicker for 4 and 5 to make the target combo into command grab work (nerf the damage a little bit to adjust it because you could get it more but that being the trade off)
I will say having a character with a weak Drive Rush and lacklustre defensive options can still work as a character, but she needs the right tools. She needs ways to essentially force the strike-throw mix-up. She needs good frame data. Her design philosophy at the start struck me as a snowball grappler - a character that starts off weak, but once you gain momentum you are a force to be reckoned with. But it's just so hard to actually get that ball rolling when other characters have better options.
I honestly can't believe she was made the way she was. Like I played her and got her to Platinum, but like I only won as far as I did cause people don't know how to fight her. Having no defense is so dumb. Potemkin has Back Megafist and Stand P, Zangief has plus on block normals that reach decently far, Ladiva has insane special moves. They don't fully solve their problems, but they are things that can contest with their opponents and put fear into them. Manon has nothing for someone to be scared of. She quite literally is a gimmick grappler, which is the worst type of character. I'm not asking for a DP or anything, just make one of her existing moves good on defense. Like maybe EX Command Grab has upper body invincibility. Or her Level 1 and 2 not be terrible lol
