MANY PAYWARE AIRPORTS CAUSE STUTTERS! 

To see the LOD problem with the scenery that causes stutters, turn on Developer Mode (General Options/Developers/On). From the new window menu bar, drop down Debug and tick Debug Model LODs. In the tool window that pops up, tick LOD face count and Display name in addition to the default LOD size. For each model in view you will see the following: (Name of the creator), LOD[0,3], the current screen size of that model and the count of faces that need to be drawn to display it. Most airports will be very cluttered, so you can restrict the display to a particular group by typing in a few letters of the desired object's name - such as part of the creator's company name or whatever. Most 3rd party developers precede their object names with the company name short form (also tick "Use short name"). You'll find that most of the "stutter-generators" show as LOD[0,0] meaning there is only one Level of Detail model available - usually an extremely detailed model. LOD[0,3] is the most detailed of four levels of detail (numbered from 0 as are most computer indices). The screen size is the percent of the vertical size of your screen that a sphere encompassing the model takes up. 100 means that the model is currently taking up 100% of your vertical screen. This number can to to 999%, and the object disappears when it is less than about 1%. I've dumped lots of freeware and payware on general principles when I see only one LOD for a model. Think a little and you will see why taking off past the main terminal that has only one LOD causes stutters. Once you pull away from the object even 50 feet, you do not need a high level of detail. Think about it. IMHO a terminal filled with high face count empty waiting area chairs is just silly! A zillion people milling about has nothing to do with hand-flying an ILS approach in a storm. Thank you very, very much for this video.

Many developers these days make them guilty of too much detail in their scenery. Like interior features which in my opinion we don't really need.

This is such a detailed and informative analysis of the stutters, clearly describing the issue. I really hope Asobo/MS and third party dev see this. People have been yelling "stutters" like headless chickens for far too long. We know now. Thanks for this video mate, top notch content.

Terrific video. Absolutely, 100% true on all points. Newark is the biggest stutter offender. Also, you didn't test this, but FSLTL and similar injector add ons worsen this phenomenon during the last 300 feet on short final.

Well explained. Let's hope your video catches the powers that be attention. This issue Needs to be addressed and resolved!

I agree with what you say and *love* your philosophy about Quality First and not money.

Don't use rolling cache. The rolling cache is prone to corruption and needs to recycle all too often. Another one is the various cache and shader files. Deleting them regularly also helps a lot.

Good video but people have to understand the key component in a gaming rig or laptop is the processor. The is the engine of it all. When you run payware, your running files not native to the scenery msfs has in the sim. When your GPU and memory are pulling from different application and the payware scenery and the aircraft and the voice inside 1 mile, it is taxing your processor like crazy. A rig must have a consistent range of hardware. Meaning just cause you have a 4 cylinder engine in a Corvette doesn't mean it will be just as fast. Your want high end then 4090 with i9 or razen 9 amd with 32 gb to 64gb of ram. 4090 in and i5 you want get the top proformance. It will be a bit better but not top. Add-ons are resource consuming. Work with your settings.

everyone on the forums should see this video, I dont know how many threads Ive seen related to this

Hi, many thanks for making this video, addressing an issue that is quite game braking. At least it makes the experience worse. By the way, what tools are you using for replay and landing performance measurement? And finally, your landings are great!

Great video, at last i don't feel alone. I use varjo aero with 4090 and it's doing my head in

Hoping that Developers take note of this excellent practically detailed video! Thank you.

Great Job!

Something they might be doing (i do develop MSFS scenery) is they might be using a set number for LODs distance on all models, so instead of each piece of scenery or building changing LOD at different distances to make the transition smooth absolutely everything is loading a higher LOD at the same time as you approach.

So far I haven't felt the need to buy scenery for MSFS.

Yeah man you put your finger on it well. I got a 4090, 5900X, and 64GB of RAM and similar situation to you. 2.5TB Community folder lol

Recording software on approach and take off, may cause additional load on system resources? Since the recording software is not Asobo its 3rd party. Just my thoughts.

Im with you. I, too, am not convinced 2024 with magically fix the stutter issues. I have approx 200 custom airports, and have noticed the load times and general reduction in performance. Im running a 4070, and still face performance issues. I fly the fenix a320 and inibuilds a300 most of the time.

Looking at your other videos and viewcounts, I think you really found your place on youtube with this new video type

I get this all the time. What I do is dump all my cache files and then use add on linker to empty my community folder and fly for a while in Vanilla MSFS. Not I plan my flights before I get in the sim and only activate the appropriate scenery and for the most part I have cut those stutters down. Also one crazy thing that seems to have helped is I log into my VPN before I start the sim. I am convinced that many providers throttle MSFS servers so when I use my VPN, the sim just seems a lot smoother and with less stutters.

I have been having this problem ever since I got MSFS early last year. For me, my standard "test flight" to see how good my system is, is to fly from London City to Heathrow in the Fenix A320. I have the iniBuilds EGLL and the Orbx EGLC. I basically never get the stutter on take off, but I do get them on approach/landing, however I don't get them at the freeware Gatwick. Last year I bought a GTX 4080 graphic card and I thought that would fix everything, but it didn't. I, like you, tried turning all the settings down, clearing cache, using Auto FPS, turning AI traffic off and all the rest. Nothing worked. Recently on the MSFS Developer live stream I asked them about this and they said "the memory optimisation in sim update 15 will fix this". I downloaded the update on Friday and in my testing I would say while there's no FPS difference, the stuttering has been reduced a bit. I then updated to the latest iniBuilds EGLL version 3.1.0, which is supposed to include optimisation improvements. Again, I would say there was a slight improvement. I am now at the point where I get one big stutter over the top of the city of London, then I get a few very tiny stutters high on approach (barely noticable), and I get one more medium sized pause at about 300ft. It's not perfect, but it's just about playable now. I really hope they keep working on this, but I'm fed up of waiting for it to be fixed, and I think now it's just about good enough for me to do flights into Heathrow.

I used to have to optimise Free and Payware in FSX and I still have to do it in MSFS. Some developers don't follow the SDK, maybe they made products for FSX and continue to use the same techniques for MSFS 'just because it's how they work'. Laziness is never an excuse but most of the developers don't fly like we do, or they might spot the issues. Just imagine if developers started following the SDK and optimising their products. Not all are at fault but many could deliver better optimised products that cause less crashes and/or stutters.

What about the new Sim Update. I'm not able to test it till now. But Microsoft was telling addressing exact this issues in Sim Update 15!? Any results?

Did you check the power window mode? I have a 4070 and have actually no problem at all

Thank you for supporting the YU-ANI livery!

very well explained

The approach hang is way more common on big vatsim events due to the vast number of planes. Inibuilds make super super detailed sceneries that initially run like garbage hence the bad fps but they slowly improve it over time so that definitely means performance can be improved for the scenery devs' end. One thing try to do remove static planes that are present in the scenery itself, this helps but I forget to do this step like 80% of the time as it requrires changing the name of some files in the scenery.

This is absolutely hilarious. If you really had $5000 worth of payware scenery, maybe instead you should have spent that money on a system that can run the sim with that scenery. Ever since I upgraded, there is not a single payware airport I have found that causes stutters or low fps. And I own a little over 100 different payware airports. Some that were brutal on my performance before upgrading.

great video.....now imagine that someone like me who is running a Xbox S is going through....plus....its gotten worst after SU 15. So......MSFS 24 will be the fix? I dont think so!

Has Sim Update 15 improved this problem, its memory handling is supposed to be improved and decreasing stutters. Does this improvement work on non-Asobo airports?

Good information; maybe Deep Blue can run this sim without stutters.

Good video, thank you. Stumbled upon this as one of the many "headless chickens" !! trying to reduce stutters or micro pauses. I will not be upgrading my PC until after MSFS 2024. I will be curious if Asobo can really make a new flight sim that has none of these micro pauses, stutters. I will hold my breath on that one !!. Currently I use my good ol' trusty steam-punk GPU, yes the ubiquitous RTX 2080Ti, (famous for its launch in 2018 at a ridiculous price !). It has an overclock and has served me very well from FSX to this current edition of MSFS 2020. I ususally cap my frames to 35FPS in Nvidia control panel. In the sim I set DX11, TAA, with my screen resolution for Ultrawide mpnitor 3440x1440. TLOD at 100, OLOD 95. I turn traffic down. And reduce ships, boats, vehicles down to a lower setting. Not really interested in those as I am flying. They may add to the ground ambience etc, but I prefer a smooth Sim. So I keep flying the same flight for hours if not days !! yup trying to iron out exactly what and where and why I get these micro pauses in the Sim. I fly from Milford sound in New Zealand to Christchurch RWY 02, in my fav Chancellor 414 from FlySimware, ( an excellent addon). Currently on a good Nvidia driver 552.44, very stable. I tried 555.85, was ok but 555.99, hmmm not good ! for me at least. So I am not a software eng, so forgive me if I am speaking complete bxxllocxks !, but not only do these over extravagant airports with a crazy amount of detail cause problems, its also the nature of how the Sim is built, at least for MSFS 2020. My understanding is that the world is a huge mosaic, with "tiles" like jig-saw puzzle pieces. You fly one one tile to the next, the system loads the next tile and cache's it ahead of the one you are in. I flew this same flight plan for hours on end. From Milford Sound to Christchurch RWY 2. ( Yes I believe Christchurch is hand crafted by Asobo after a previous world update ) And at a way point "Hodde" en route to Christchurch I get the same micro pause in the Sim. The pause lasts for about half a second. It always happens at this point. I suspect that at this point, is the so called "gap" ,between my previous "tile" and the next "tile", the "Tile" that has Christchurch airport and surrounding suburban small townships. The pause occurs as the system is trying to load in this more detailed "tile". Now, the "tile" size may be 50 sq miles less, or more, I dont know. But I suspect that is why I get that pause in the Sim. Because the Christchurch area "tile" contains the airport and suburban town, villages etc and fields, lakes. The pause happens exactly at the same point every time. I tried DLSS, DLAA, TAA DX12(beta) and the usual changes in the NVidia control panel. I also use software such as MSF2020_AutoFPS, Process Lasso to set my sim at high priority. For me this software does help, its not snake oil or placebo. So no matter what I do via settings in the Sim or Nvidai control panel that pause occurs every time at that location. I can reduce it slightly, and I did by going back to DX11 and TAA. And also by capping my FPS in Nvidia control panel to 35FPS. But the pause is ALWAYS there. I suspect if I chose another world area it will occur again. I have to add that as if by some luck there are the occasional world geographies where it does not occur. However, a slight pause DOES occur at most large airports 5 miles befor landing, EVERY TIME !! sadly. The knack, so to speak is to make your own adjustments to reduce it. So to end all my waffle here !!, I may go and upgrade my PC for a complete new system, but not yet, (not much change out of £4000 pounds !! dollars !! or whatever !!.) New hardware, CPU and GPU and DDR5 memory etc will undoubtedly help. Thats fine I do understand that, and speaking seriously thats where new hardware can have a big affect in performance. But I am holding back until I see what MSFS 2024 offers in the way of better optimisation. And of course by end of 2024 Nvidia will launch the 50 series GPU's. But thats another story !!. Thank you for insights to a common problem that most flight Sim enthusiasts encounter. Whether on a Mid Tier system or High End system. Ohh, and I subscribed to your channel, as hoping for more helpful information to flight sim common issues. Prologue : I am not convinced that SU 15 has done much for optimisation. Asobo should be applauded for many of the changes within SU 15, but optimisation ?, not so sure.

I have been increasingly flying vanilla scenery xp12 for a few months for the same reason, and while airport buildings dont look nearly as good as payware they do the job, and my brain forgets the second I release parking brake, not to say smootly rotating and flaring.

I've got a couple airports that I was *really* excited to finally get. Yet, they're absolutely HORRIBLE on performance because.......the dev decided to use Asobo default aircraft as Static Traffic around the airport. That's one of the biggest things that cause issues from my experience. Devs like UK2000SCENERY have their own asset library and others use hollow assets and that what more devs should be doing.

I would gladly join in for the free testing of aircraft / scenery / airport -- I routinely find spots where the stutters are so bad that the screen freezes for over 10 seconds - these are always in same spots, so it cannot be GPU settings or Windows 10 settings. A good example of those freezing spots (always the same spots) are in Rio de Janeiro for example or near Nice Airport in France. Adding mods will exacerbate the fault is already there on first / minimal install with empty community folder. I am a professional developer in a different industry but have been flying on MSFS 2020 since 2021 - I have accumulated over 3300 hours of flight. I would also do the testing for no financial profit but for contributing to the improvement of MSFS 2020.

I understand where he is coming from. But osobo only cares about money and same goes for developers. You watch osobo slowly drift away from msfs 2020 after 2024 is released.

Saw this video after last night experiencing massive stuttering at Inibuilds Luton airport just while taxiing - we are talking stutters of 5-8 seconds !!! I'm on the beta of MSFS and since the beta is more or less final release version I am not confident this will be fixed ever for MSFS 2020 - hopefully it will be in 2024

At 17:00 you said the most crucial part.. the way how they use msfs.... e.g. performance degration over time.... i cant proof it, but my msfs is running for about 10hrs a day ... i fly several legs without leaving msfs .... at the 3rd latest at the 4th leg msfs starts geeeting more lggyish .... asobo said they have pc' running for hours to check the issue.... but a running pc is not problem... it starts after several takeoffs and landing within the same sesssion....

My question is: What does 'pre-rendering' actually do? Are they caching data in VRAM, or DRAM, or even on a physical disk? I assume the amount of pre-rendered data is proportional to the TLOD setting, i.e. a TLOD of 400 would need to pre-render a much larger amount of data, and users with less powerful systems (Xbox, for example) simply wouldn't have the VRAM or DRAM to cache it all out to, say, 5 miles. Limiting TLOD would of course mean much less data gets cached, and then your theory makes sense. Less area pre-rendered = stutters, as the program tries to keep up with areas it once rendered, but lost the cache data for. Hopefully Microsobo is planning to use the system resources available in higher end systems like you, optimizing DRAM - and especially VRAM - usage to improve complex scenery caching. As you said, your system should be able to run at high TLOD and OOLD settings, with no fear of stutters, and reasonably high framrates, almost regardless of the complexity of the payware.

4K or even 8K textures? I have an UW 1440p...

Root cause analysis = Looking out the window :-). I think MSFS doesn't use all of our CPU cores. Maybe try setting the game up to load that scenery sooner so its not doing it at the last moment.

The MS Game bar can cause the sim to stutter. i had this problem and all i did was uninstall the MS / XBOX Game Bar and that fixed the problem for me. i never had to uninstall addons

I run in safe mode, then VR, and it's super smooth, amazing. Pretty sure it's not up to date AddIn's using older runtime libraries

Hey Man, I cannot agree More! I have similar specs (exept i run on 7800x3d) and have the same problem. I dont think it is too much to aske to exper 90-100 FPS on 5k PC

I realised there was stutters being caused by poorly configured add ons when I would rename the community folder when installing a sim update, so no add ons, lovely and smooth no stutters .

Posted on MSFS Forums

You guys should be at least grateful you are able to buy those peripherals for your PC with your hard earned money just so you could run this sim in 60+ frames. Not like me who has to shrink the 4K textures of liveries just to make it run smoothly.

RX6800XT, medium settings, VR Reverb G2, almost always on Vatsim with Navigraph panel and VSR open (in VR). I hardly get stutters. I fly in Europe.

For me it was the real life traffic injected by MSFS.

I'm running I7 9700k, rtx 2070 super 32gb 3200mhz ram and don't get any stuttering, maybe low frames at big international airports but no stutters, only fly into 3rd party scenery, this is what confuses me I have half the spec of yours and it runs fine🤷‍♂️

The approach stutters are primarily caused by 'services' on the ground loading in. It's not so much of a fix but changing 'Services' to 'OFFServices' in the Msfs data folder fixed most of my approach problems. The downsides are, you'll remove the in game standard pushback and parking guidance after landing.

I doubt Asobo knows how to prevent the stutters. The Standard Edition's "Köln/Bonn" (EDDK) Airport is one of the worst offenders when it comes to stutters on landing.

Turn on Auto_FPS just as you're on final (or taxiing out / departure) **as the stutters occur** - stuttering disappears completely... for a moment. What is Auto_FPS doing that eliminates stuttering (momentarily) and why does the stuttering start again? There's your answer. The dev needs to investigate that. ETA: For me, there is no apparent degradation of TLOD or OLOD during this stutter-free period.

I have a RTX 2060 on my mid-2020 PC and don't have this problem. This is the funniest FS video I have ever seen. Thanks! And I asked Asobo to make Pyreegue share their insider secrets for optimization. They ignored me. And that hurts the ENTIRE community! Pyreegue and Gaya know because they work closely with Asobo.

Inibuilds DTW is unplayable because of these issues. I am running a 4060 LP and a I9 13700k with 32 gigs DDR4

Software has always been ahead of the hardware. And there is no software or hardware (currently) that can handle the LOD our real world entail. Sims like X-Plane or MSFS portray the bigger picture. Whereas DCS, Arma or combat sims focus on the details, hence the former sims are able to simulate the entire world and others only a fraction of our very beautiful earth..It is going to cost us more than 1024 Exabytes or 999 Trillions to properly simulate the earth on our devices (PCs, consoles or mobi[le phone]s.)

Or you can just update to SU15 and things work much better. AutoFPS is a huge help as well.

Wasted your funds on that 7950, should have got the 7800x3d

I notice this on some Asobo and Third Party airports. Mainly in areas with high photogrammetry like Atlanta, or Los Angeles. A quick fix I found was to delete and rebuild your rolling cache.

Lol, its not your system!!! And lower setting helps, because just think what's going through your broadband router when it comes to MSFS2020. If its not Nvidia cache at fault, there timeout in MSFS2020 caused by packet drops on you home broadband, even if its fibre. Is not business grade or qos enabled for msfs2020 data packets. Over yiu broadband ther client and server positioning updates, LOD increasing at lower a Attitude and photo graphic scenary. Plus vat sim updates. I use Auto FPS to manage my issues, dialing down LOD LOT on take off and landing. Custom scenary or airports can make things worse. Msfs2020 needs to fix the old MSFS2020 preloading cache issues or reduce visibility distance to an aircraft, so not everything in the local area is crated around your aircraft.

SU15 DX12 update fixes all this

1) Don't use rolling cache 2) Use Addon Linker to separate your scenery into areas. I have mine as the 4 quadrants of the continental US, one for Europe, and one for "everything else." I have no stutter issues on my 7950X3D and 4090 with this setup.

Im pretty sure they changed how stuff loads on xbox, and that screwed PC users who have stuff on ultra...

Limit your FPS to 30 (60 with frame gen). No more stutters. You're aiming for too high FPS.

3:30 minutes in the video and I am immediately thinking about deleting the rolling cache. I had something similar. Ok, that said, I will continue watching.

I think you’re onto something. Another developer is MK Studio. I recently got one of their airport scenery and my god, it was a mess of studtters. Removed it and it was smooth as butter. I’m done, I’ll just keep the default for now.

This is why I love XP so much. First of all 3rd party airports usually work pretty well. And secondly default airports are so good that you actually don’t need 3rd party. You always get a consistent performance / output. 60 FPS capped with V-Sync buttery smooth. Love it. Just did a 5 hours flight from KSEA to KMIA in MSFS. Buttery smooth (60 FPS V-Sync) from take off to landing. Perfect experience and very happy with my new 7800x3D that is feeding my 4080 super. Then suddenly at 500ft stutters and low FPS. Almost cried…😅 maybe it was Active Sky? Maybe Latin VFR? Maybe DX12? Maybe the rolling cache? Maybe NVIDIA cache? Gaming mode on? Exclusions added? High power settings? Is the new Nvidia driver? NVIDIA settings? Re-sizable bar? Hyperthreading off? Bla bla bla And that’s the problem with MSFS. It’s hard to find the root cause. You get frustrated and you spend more time on trying to find the issue or on optimizing the sim and your PC gets spammed with 10 Microsoft gaming apps and language experience packages that you would otherwise delete if you would not use MSFS…😂

Works fine for me.

Addons Linker.

Its the 4090 the sim dont like it. I got a 7900xtx and a 4090 and the 7900xtx works alot better no studders at all. Soon as i put the 4090 in it studders. 64gb 7950x at 55.75ghz all core. The sim dont like 4090s

I encounter the same problem with payware airports, especially ORBX KBUR. I am unable to move when i have Frame Generation on and load into a payware airport, basically freezes. Once i turn off FG, then i am able to move freely. When I'm flying the PMDG 737 at KLAX by inbuild my performance is terrible. I am running i7, RTX 4060 32GB. DLSS-DLAA DX12. Everything runs super smooth, when flying stock airports and aircraft. Very disappointing.

Finally, someone talked about this and many people in the comments haven’t yet catch on to it yet since I guess most of them only fly GA aircraft and don’t engage in High demanding area.. but make it clear these developers need to be pirated. I know that sounds extreme but this is the only solution unless you have so much money to burn. Let me show you some examples 1- inibulids : whether it’s airport or aircraft either way you’ll get a terrible experience and no matter what product or where is it on the map you would still get bad for for no reason.. Verdict : These guys should be pirated every day all day. 2- mkstudio : their sceneries are somewhat terrible, but nothing comes closer to the Montreal scenery. The airport when it released wasn’t playable at all but from what I can see, they are making some progress specially towards optimizing performance, and that shows in their latest airport LaGuardia Verdict : buy if you have a somewhat decent hardware 3- BM World : it’s one of the most terrible dev you’ll ever encounter terrible sceneries not accurate and not optimized Verdict : pirate them 4- Drzewiecki Design : basically inibulids doppelganger all of their scenery look great from a graphic standpoint in terms of performance. All of them are shit even the ones in remote areas do not buy at all costs Verdict : pirate or avoid 5- aerosoft : some of their sceneries look outdated and they hit your performance so hard you cannot unnoticed it specially Brussels.. verdict : buy but be careful There are so many I can’t go through all of them, but these are the worst

Not being funny but have you tried without aircraft traffic? You didn’t mention testing this. Seems logical to me that as you’re flying into larger international airports, there are going to be a lot of parked aircraft that it spawns into existence when you get close. That surely causes stutters and it’s nothing to do with the third party scenery.

If you want performance for your flights, cmon on over to P3D where non of these issues exist because of the sim. You can get P3D to look about 85% what MFS is and still enjoy fidelity in the aircraft with even more capabilities than they have in MFS. Good to enjoy with and not have any issues or updates ruining it for you.

Try increasing your Object Level of Detail. 150 seems to work best for me at most payware airports. There’s a great comment on Airnot’s RU-vid video about MSFS settings which explains OLOD in detail. That is the culprit for most of the stutters you’re seeing. Sounds counter intuitive but increasing it should help eliminate a large part of those stutters. With your system you could possible push it to 200. You’ll be surprised at how much smoother your sim is. Keep your TLOD at whatever you usually keep it to. Also, when using AutoFPS mod, don’t use it to change OLOD. Keep that constant at 150 or 200. Also DX12 seems to work a bit better for me in terms of stuttering. Also do you have photogrammetry on?

MSFS will stutter unless you fix FPS at 30 or 60. Period.

Simmers Always decide what the future will hold OR NOT HOLD Then, 120FPS, THERE YOU ALREADY LOST ME. I sim at a locked 30 FPS. NO ISSUES AND NO STUTTERS. AND it IS enough To think that people spend money on a GPU that can buy you a small car. Then, we see many content creators who sim with no stutters. Why this only happens with certain PCs is truly a mystery Lots of posts daily is all about FPS. This is not COD. FPS chasing takes away many hours of simming enjoyment

ASOBO destroyed their own game. It has gotten worse and worse and worse. I have given up on 2020, and unfortunately I don’t think 2024 will be better. Awful developer.

You don't need 85-120 FPS! The humaneye can't discern that high. Sound a little egotistical.

iPad with X Plane Mobile, completely painless. All the fun, knowledge, and practice, without the insanity and PC tweaking and performance measurement. Planes don’t have fps and 4K fluctuations. No peripherals, no keyboard, no headache.

TBH the humblebragging about how much money you burnt on a video game and the constant shots advertising how smooth your landings are diminish any sympathy we might have for you .

Why would anyone spend $5000 on addons for a flight simulator in the first place, especially airports? I use my flight simulator for flying - I don't spend a lot of time wandering around airports. I don't get the point.

most disgusting trash is gsx. many stutters and when unlinked I load the sim 50% faster