Marcus Plested "St Gregory Palamas and Thomas Aquinas between East and West" at the St Tikhon’s Orthodox University Conference “The Opposition between East and West in the Cultural Traditions of the Christian World” 10 may 2016
If you search the title, "St. Gregory Palamas and Thomas Aquinas: Between East and West," in quotation marks, you will find a link to a blog called The Orthodox West where the text of this superb lecture is posted.
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese Yes, Pletus said that it was temporal. Still he (Pletus) quoted Palamas saying that "Because the consubstantiality with the Father and Son, the spirit can be said ... to be naturally from the Son and from His essence." This part I want to highlight because it's a curious part. A temporal procession in the divine substantial/essential. Now, that is like a dry water or a cold fire. Which is why I highlighted it so I could go back to it and maybe consult books or other people.
@@namapalsu2364 Sorry this is late. Does anyone know if the quote is Greek or Latin? The Greek has 2 distinct words for proceed (ekporeuesthia - hypostatic and proionia - energetic/economic). English and Latin usually only translate to proceed. St Cyril of Alexandria (Commentariorium ad Joannem) and St Maximus the Confessor (Letter to Marinus) say similar things to this St. Palamas quote, but they use proionia explicitly. Both have also stated that the Filioque using ekporeuesthai is heretical. Also, we have to be careful that the Orthodox and Thomists don't have the same meanings for "essence" or "substance". Thomist have a more Aristotelian and Semi-Nominalist take and the Orthodox are part Platonic/part Aristotelian. Also they differ on Divine Simplicity, so views on inter-Trinitarian life are radically different. For Thomists, everything in God, except the Persons, are Identical to the essence, even logical opposites and contraries (e.g. God acting and not actioning in himself are one and the same act). This tends to cause a lot of equivocation and confusion in Thomism. Everything can simply be redefined as something else since they're all identical, even though they're logically different.
So what are the conclusions?..which is more faithful to the early church understanding,...or is the theology developt within its human taste all along the ambition of man (on its cultural environtment) then??.. So what for,.. such truth claims on both sides??..
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese Oh man. Even Protestant could say that the fathers taught sola fide and sola scriptura. I asked you, where in the 7 ecumenical councils we get essence and energy distinction?
@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese I KNOW the fathers didn't teach sola scriptura or sola fide. That is not what I was getting at. Where is EED (Essence and Energy Distinction) in the 7 ecumenical councils?
The video is not about which one is more faithful to the early Church. This video is about the difference between east and west (regardless of whether those differences are more faithful to the early Church). The somewhat conclusion is that there's indeed difference between east and west. These difference were more contrast, especially before the 20th century. But after further study by scholars from east and west the gap became narrow (St. Thomas revered and loved greek fathers and their teachings, and on the other hand Gregory Palamas welcomed Augustine's trinitarian thoughts, tho not all. Palamas, and easterners, still could not get rid of a smidget of anti Latin. While St. Thomas or Augustine can't be viewed as anti eastern at all).
@@namapalsu2364 .,. It seem to me just an act of human hobby : just killing time activities.. In that scope of time human has both intellect and moral not enough capacity, just to evaluate (as truth seeker) that kind of scope of (dogma objective) difference... Not to mention the limitasion of human "language" in that time scope (2000 years)....🙄🤔... Successive (from generation to generation) claiming such " high" (moral) authority from each church (west/ east)..,... without any capability to objective 'validation'..... somehow... Gives a picture of just human trends/ mood in each time and cultural environment,...right???
