"Because they're bigger, that's actually a weakness, not a strength" - Imperial engineers explaining to the merchant princes why their crackhead invention isn't a steam tank
That’s the same reason why Dread Saurians as worse than Stegadons. Dread Saurians have a terrible time walking through city gates. Their mass blocks the gate and the animations keep them in place.
In the actual battle of Nuln the Empire sent four of these things against Tamurkhan's Chaos Dwarf allies, and they bought several valuable seconds on the charge because the Chorfs were that dumbfounded at what was coming at them.
@@vladdietheladdie7345 a landing company or something like that. The ships rolled right up to the artillery while shooting and then a bunch of melee infantry jumped from them to slaughter some short men
This is my doom stack and I've got to say that later in that campaign the Wood Elf end game crisis started and another army just like that one rolled over the Wood Elves (3 armies+ Garrison at Oak of Ages) in every engagement so much so that the End Game was dead within 5 turns. It only struggles in auto-resolve where it will randomly delete a unit, also just throwing them into melee and constantly driving them back and forth is more than enough to kill an entire army, which is what I did to those Chorfs during my own tests to see if they were worth fighting.
I used a similar doom stack, tanky melee lords really fucked up my boats but only because they didn't seem to target him if he was too close to another boat. Also, the game really hates land ships and thunder barges because it'll just randomly decide they died. Even when I have decisive victories for the auto resolve.
I used a "doomstack" of 1 gryphon general and the ror landship. Between the two of them and a tier 1 settlement(no garrison bldg), they took out two full stacks of chorfs. Crazy these land ships.
The Imperial Navy looks pretty sweet here. Glad to see naval combat being added into the game. We have the Franzer Division, and now we have the Imperial Navy.
I'm not sure Legend understood that he's supposed to be using these like chariots. They're supposed to always be moving and plowing through units; they're not just War Wagons.
@@TubeNewrome Except they're not, they have an active ability that increases mass and speed. That's their main purpose in multiplayer, and they're *extremely* busted.
@@TubeNewrome Are you basing that off numbers or gameplay lmao if you say gameplay your definitely lying if you have 5 or more land ships nothing is going to stop them especially when you have their upgrades I'll send you to a better Landship doom stack video Cultist of Khorne it's up againist high elves but that is what the gameplay for this doom stack look like results are basically almost the same across the board almost every race
I feel like the best Nuln doomstack is just a bunch of Ironsides, long rifles, and engineers with the Hochland Scope trait. You get ironsides with 250 range and long rifles with 500.
No, its the Volley Gun Steam tank by a landslide. These things are not only invulnerable, they plow through land battles and sieges in mere seconds, killing and routing everything without a worry in the world. Fastest and most efficient doomstack I've played in the whole series.
I have to say that the mortar on the RoR landship feels like it does nothing even when the shell falls in the blob of trashiest infantry - i’d say it’s bugged
Nuln is so stupidly fun and overpowered. Im on my third elspith campaign in a row. I just cant get enough of angy goth lady and her mountains of gunpowder
Lol. Exact same. I NEVER played s single second of empire and I was a day one player for TWWH1. But angry goth lady came onto the scene and I cannot get enough of her and her campaign. Sooo good but more importantly, fun as shit.
If you use a chevron formation gun line these things are great right behind the point of the front line, the cannons will fire at enemies that haven’t hit the lines yet and the Ironsides are firing broadsides in both directions into the sides of the enemy melee infantry. Against ranged heavy armies though the enemy will focus fire on them.
My doomstack of ships didn’t have any problems with single monsters - they shoot accurately with the main weapon, and from rifles they shoot "my respect". But there were problems with three full-stacks of forest elves - there were probably 40 shooters there, and the regen limit appeared for many ships.
I think one thing that could be done mildly differently is bringing these into melee sooner. They have the side shots similar to Thunderbarge which is where a lot of their killing power comes from.
This doomstock looks awesome!. I'm I'm currently having my faction capital reach rank *four settlement and then I'm going to build rank four artillery. I have an emergency stack I made from some regiments of renown and then whatever stuff I had to take out some orcs, that have been using to attack them. I'm thinking I'm just going to get rid of them all and then head on back to my faction capital to build this dooms *stack. It's going to be sick.
the Total War power creep is ridiculous. They used to at least try and make factions unique somehow yet balanced with strengths and weaknesses. Somewhere down the line we seem to have adopted the Warthunder method and release some new overpowered bat shit crazy stuff you pay for, then nerf it back down later on in life. Its taken something that was important to game i feel, its longevity, and traded it in for quick profit. People are gonna buy the DLCS, play it, enjoy it, steam roll and get bored then dump it. The strategy and Total War experience is what would keep people playing. Feels like they started making money and bashing ungodly amounts of cocaine in their board meetings, no one knows restraint or how to say no. its just " LETS MAKE IT BIGGER BETTER HARDER FASTER STRONGER!" and its met with a resounding "FUCK YEAH!" WOOOOO!" Maybe its just me? but i feel like we have lost something incredibly special along the way in the development...
@@gottagofastest I don't think most players were that motivated by making the game easy mode. Instead, I suspect CA was panicking and worried if things were too weak they would not be popular enough, it is bad news really since it removes challenge from the game.
It's like tabletop. Every couple of years they want to revamp an old faction and just dial stupid shit to 11. I got tired of it. When I was a kid playing 40k,a marine tactical squad was a viable unit. Now there there's so much bullshit why would you bother?
It just boils my piss the way they have gone about things, we had a game series that was shaping up to be great, and it’s severely lost it’s way. They took faction mechanics off of an established faction so they could give it to a DLC faction, so what is happening with the original faction? I imagine they are going to get a carbon copy + paste Franz / Gelt mechanics slapped onto Tyrion / Teclis now. Remember how flat out broken and ridiculous sisters of twilight were on release? Have you tried playing them recently? Nerfed into the ground. I challenge any of you reading to reinstall warhammer 1, or even 2 and replay it. The balance in those titles is worlds apart from the “give us your money while I rail another line off this hookers ass in Reno” we have currently. It honestly feels like a completely different team of people that have made the first game. Remember when people made video games and art because they enjoyed it? For the love of it, not just for profit? Sure you gotta make a few but that’s easier to do when you make quality. I am 100% convinced they do nothing but snort Coke and “fuck yeah!” High five each other with each power fantasy idea that gets floated across the table.
I do think that the steam tank doom stack is stronger but I like landship doom stack more since they kill stuff much faster and are more micro intensive (which is more fun to me). Plus being cheaper is nice too.
I think for the landships the same applies as for mammoths! Know your ABC's! Always Be Charging! Because they shoot in melee and are in my experience good at charging infantry down!
The interesting thing about doom stacks in this game is there's a limit on how much you can ever have to face; therefore, as long as people can keep identifying stacks that can handle it without taking lasting damage, there really isn't a limit to how many 10/10 stacks can exist. That being said, ease of use and cost effectiveness are real issues to consider- this one seemed very easy to use.
I was playing this and laughing my ass off as beastmen decided to ambush me. "Hey guys, watch as I ambush a herd of elephants!" -Growler the world's flattest lion.
I made this kind of spam and fought against melee orc heroes and they deal lots of damage to the landships unless we move around all the time. A bit clunky yet very powerful indeed.
In my experience these things work really really well as centrepieces to an army of cheap units. If you micro them intensively you can get insane value.
yes, the ror with a lord, garrison and some quickly recruted chaff did safe so many of my settlements against incursions. the ship got insane numbers while charging through the fighting frontlines and firing nonstop. those big tactical fights with a few centerpieces to micro and shine are more fun than the fire and forget doomstack armies you have endgame. but they are still fun :) great dlc in my opinion.
There is a new patch where hellblaster steam tanks do not benefit from the hellblaster upgrades. They did nit untend for ut to double dip. I wonder how the hellblaster doom stack compares now.
A lot of feels and not enough testing on what you believe to be better or not, idk I feel like the Landships are better tbh. Btw you didn't compare the Steamtank Volleyguns vs an hypothetical fulls tack of carnosaurs like you did the landship here (Landships probably can take it better as they can fire whie running away with their Ironsides on the top.) Also they are supposed to be used as chariots too that you didn't do, which is fine but you should had addressed that, the same as the Steam Volleyguns but you did do it there. Sry for sounding snarky, I'm just matching your energy Legend.
You also get these guys at tier before the steam tanks. Found my empire campaign I painted the map before the ven getting to volley gun steam tanks Also slight user error. The charge ability wipes whole lines of infantry then the 360 shooting on top. I find the ship doomstack does better than the tanks
I feel like this doom stack is a good one to build if you're wanting to do multiple doom stacks in your campaign. Because it plays similar to the volley gun one but is slightly cheaper and you can get it earlier. I don't know if there's ways to get a super fast tier v settlement so maybe not. But in terms of fun value, this is pretty fun looking. I feel that this doom stack while performing worse in the volley gunone, this one is easier to obtain and to maintain than the volleygun one.
One of the most cost-effective ways I found to play with Elspeth, is to have a general with one or two engineer heroes and then 7 to 9 of the volley gun steam tanks. Your armies are actually pretty cheap if your general in each of the heroes reduce their maintenance by 5% and the general can reduce it by another, like 27% I think. When you have steam tanks, you don’t have to have full stacks so you’re basically running a half stack and a little challenge but still being really strong.
I like using these as blocker units in my basic gunnery armies. The AI has gotten much better at ignoring forward heroes but they dont ignore a landship
Yeah I feel like the main difference for going for this over the steam tank volley guns. Is you being at tier 4 instead of tier 5. Because you build tier four you upgrade the artillery thing to tier 4 and then you wait to get enough growth to get to your five and then you build that one and then you build the tier 5 artillery and then you get steam tank volley guns. Which everyone's going to do. But I feel that making this doom stack once you get to your tier 4 with your first tier 4 settlement I feel is a good thing to do. I mean at least in my campaign I'm not exactly hurting for gold somehow I have like freaking 19 trade partners.
I kinda think the land ship should have either a 360 firing arc or two firing arcs from each side instead of a front one. Then you'd just do a drive-by.
Landships are so good. Not as good as steam tank volley guns, those things are busted, but these are busted too. I would hazard, that the steam tank volley gun stack doesn't really need a life wizard, whereas this one does.
I think the biggest thing to come out of this update is the auto resolve discrepancy, Decisive defeat sieging a settlement becomes a win with zero casualties when you play it yourself. I have been playing a lot more battles this patch than auto resolving which I suppose isn't a bad thing.
Thinking that might be a way to bring them closer to balanced without nerfing them, indeed. A "mechanical" trait, that disables life magic. But then maybe engineers can get a bit of repairs like chorfs.
I have a problem with land ships and steam tanks in this patch, they move too much of their won volition, constantly shifting the angle. I guess they try to line up the auxiliary attacks at the cost of the main gun?
Is it me or do the landships seem to underperform/bug out alot? They don't turn to face their target sometimes, they have fire while moving but sometimes just dont, it's really weird. Especially with the thunderbarges in the same update (which are far too strong) it makes them seem kinda bad when you have a full stack of them lined up and they seem to do less in a volley than if you had just regular cannons firing, especially with the lower range.
they are not a main artillery piece, but a heavy armor artillery range shock chariot. if the would do more dmg than cannons while just standing still, there would be no reason to still use normal artillery in your army. keep them charging like you would do with something like Kholek, Skarbrand or Tamurkhan and they will disrupt enemy range units effectively, while melee enemies don't really get to hit you a lot, therefore you get very little dmg. that big frontside cannon will shoot while moving, so don't bother with it. the frontside cannon is your option to focus fire down single entities from afar when you have dealt with higher threats like faster cavalry and the enemies range units. if i use my landships like that they outperform most other units in my army and do definitely more dmg than cannons or steam tanks over the course of the battle.
@@rinserofwinds I understand that, but premise doesn't make a ton of sense when landships are Tier 4 units and cannons are Tier 2. They already have far less range than a cannon, so just from a progression standpoint there isn't really much reason to pay for landships at all, especially when steamtanks do the job of the being an artillery piece and a chariot just plain better, especially with the new update that's turned them into literal modern day cars and the volley gun variation is the same tier as landships. Landships only benefit is that they have around 3k more hp and a couple more handgunners shooting off the sides, but they have less armor, less missile strength, less maneuverability and steam tanks can almost completely block ranged attacks from the front. The only place I can see Landships having some benefit is in pvp, but even then their cost likely doesn't make them all that much of a better choice than a steam tank or an elite flyer of some kind.
@@tehtayziez Ofc you can see it that way, but i see unit balancing differently. Landships are hybrid units and can do a lot of things. Cannons are highly specialized artillery units and can only do one thing (shooting at stuff from far away) Cannons die to everything, a unit of the weakest flankers like hounds or harpies, a skavenslave summon or a unit of peasant archers that gets in range. They are super slow, cant run away from anything and need hours to reposition and have a low angle direct fire arc, that makes them more difficult to position. But I personally like it, if those specialized one purpose unit are still viable in that one aspect, even if they are lower tier. We are not comparing two specialized artillery pieces, but very different unit types with some overlapping in far range firepower. Landships laugh at chaff infantry and run away from dangerous encounters. For me Hellblasters usually replace my cannons in terms of progression. I don't need the range, because that role will be filled by Hellstorm Rocket Batteries well enough for me, and for focus firing dangerous fast targets, Hellblasters do more dmg for more money as I would expect in a straight progression upgrade unit. Hellblasters are a very similar unit type in terms of role, strengths and weaknesses, especially with the Nuln dig in upgrade to compensate the lower base range. They have been outshined by the grape shot cannons up until now, but those were also nerfed in yesterdays patch, so Hellblasters now fit their spot perfectly. Steam Tank Hellblasters double dipping was a bug and was fixed yesterday. Both units do about the same dmg in battle, steam tanks are better tanks, better long range artillery and have smaller hitboxes. Land Ship has larger hitbox and performs better as disruptor, because it hits more units in a charge and has speed ability without any upgrades. Lands Ship also has about half the more mass than a steam tank and therefore also performs better as a chariot, because it gets pinned down less easily. It also gets more hp and is available much earlier as t4 compared to t5. Most of the time in my endgame combined arms Nuln armies i have 2 steam tanks as road stoppers at the flanks and 1 or 2 land ships as disruptor, depending on how much i like to mikro chariots in that army. the rest are heroes, Hellblasters and Hellstorm Rocket Batteries and a mix of range infantry. And they are Land Ships, they are just cool ;)
I made a stack of these recently. Noticed how poorly they perform in auto resolve... i was losing 5-6 of them against basic skaven settlement garrisons... doesnt seem theyre balanced right in auto resolve.
Ships are better in close combat than tanks - and by a lot. But the problem here is rather that tanks now perfectly perform the role of “tanks” themselves. In general, for me, ships are war-wagonson steroids, they play exactly the same.
3 landships, 12 VG steam tanks are invincible. Eng Lord, 2 Engineers, Warrior Priest (just to protec the engineers) and Life Wzd. you can have 3 teams of 4 tanks and a landship + the Lord
You would normally take points off someone for sending in a doomstack that wasn't complete, and this one was missing something pretty big. The set you get for progressing through the Amethyst Armoury comes with a variety of bonuses to the Heroes army, including adding explosive damage with an increased radius for ranged units. It also comes with both reduced upkeep and recruitment cost. Once you progress far enough, YOU CAN RECRUIT ENTIRE ARMIES FOR FREE and get around 50% upkeep. It also would have benefited from having a Hochland Scopes Lord or Hero. By the time you can recruit this army, which really doesn't take long, it shouldn't cost any more than the price of the Amethyst/RoR units, and upkeep shouldn't be anywhere near 10k per turn.
I think they are stronger than steam tanks without the workshop helping the tanks because the main advantage of the steam tanks in Nuln is the extra speed to just charge through melee with ease. Without that the Landships extra guns seem more valuable to me.
I still think these are a bit OP in that they have infinite ammo sub weapons. They seem to have similar range to the base cannons and AP, just not the explosive shots.
poor vampirates got powercrept hard and would get stomped. they have been the range heavy gunpowder faction, but their stuff feels pretty weak in comparison. 'member when we got Queen Bess? but it is so strong you only get one ror of course! Dreadquake Mortar enters the room... the stand alone undead factions really need a rework, would love me some new vampirate and tomb king campaigns! let's hope we get it in some kind of Nagash dlc!
The 'big machines' to me are missing their biggest weakness. If we were watching a movie of a big monster attacking one of the landships you would expect the monster to attempt to topple it. Yet these things are impossible to topple, for me (as a non-user of such) I find that both frustrating and boring..
maybe there's a bug on normal battle difficulty, but my landship doomstack is EXTREMELY WEAK in autoresolve. It loses to minor settlement garrisons. If I play the battle, I can literally just hit the start battle button and win
