as years go on the world changes around me but hearing Marine Corps stories reassures me that Marines will never ever quit doing stupid shit when they're bored or angry.
You have a strong antagonism towards the Marines which I find disrespectful. By your writing, I can tell you were never in the Marine Corps. You should have served in the Marines but without your antagonism.
I can agree with your statement that eventually a Marine will do something stupid. My take is that any man that isn’t happy or is not living with a purpose will eventually do something stupid which this guy fortifies throughout this entire video to the point that I’m struggling to understand why this guy was interviewed at all. There are finer examples of Marines out there that would have been a more positive representative for our Marine Corps. It took me until the last 4 minutes that it finally hit me. It was the fact that he opted for his discharge docs rather than go over to the Persian Gulf that maybe he just didn’t have the desire to excel to the next level. Not just in the Corps but in life as a whole. Why? Because it meant he had to grow up and take responsibility.
@@d.rcarrera6599 what's your favorite Kool-Aide? You have smug arrogance which I find disrespectful. Anyone who has a close association with the Marine Corps will have similar stories of the weak leadership and self-serving officers trying to punish their way to success
You are 100% correct, as a Marine I take no offense. I was in around the same time as this guy. Young men, full of testosterone and pretty girls and cheap booze everywhere....everyone drank. I mean a lot. All day every day. Nothing big happened that didn't have a keg in the middle. It's all we had, pay sucked. We had Marine security guards for nukes. They would play quick draw because they were bored on duty and on occasion someone would get shot. Note: this is why the Marine barracks bombing happened....the commander didn't trust his Marines with live ammo. Back then, I can't speak for today....but nearly everyone was a fuckup. The military was where you went to not go to jail (my cousin fit that) or have to work in a factory. College was still relatively rare. The Marines were perfect for an adventurous young man. My brother was a Marine too. He got an honorable but RE-4 code (he couldn't re-enlist). Too many NJPs. We all got into trouble, but generally harmless. It was like being in a traveling circus in many ways. Hard, backbreaking work.....superhuman endurance......almost no sleep....friends closer than brothers......but I had the time of my life. God I miss it. Semper Fi.
After that incident at 29 Palms, CMC at the time was General Al Grey, he went to every Marine Corps Base in and out of CONUS to talk to every Marine SNCO & Officer (at least that's what I was told) .. I was at KBay at the time he came through. All SNCO's and Officers were to report to the Base Theater for a CMC Lecture!!...I was a Sergeant back then, I snuck into the backside of the theater to listen to General Grey's speech..It truly was one for the books, he emphasized to all that it was "Our fault that LCpl was left behind and died, it was our responsibility and we failed him, It is the responsibility of every Marine Officer & SNCO and every Marine regardless of rank to account for each and every Marine regardless where your at and what's going on"....mind you he said and emphasized much more, and in very colorful language to boot....His words (to me) hit home hard later while in the Saudi & Kuwaiti Desert. USMC from 1980 to 1991...EAS after my return from Desert Storm...Never Forget: 19yr old LCpl Jason Rother!...
I remember reading about that incident in the newspaper. It was awful reading about that. They could have sent a helo to look for him but I don't believe they did. I was at 29 Palms for Desert Training and instructors would tell us that it is difficult to measure distance in the desert. We did a month there and went to Coronado for water-related training, it was freezing and we had only shorts, t shirt, and gym shoes. I don't remember if they made us take off our shoes; but I remember my first submersion into the ocean almost wanting to panic, all of us, were freezing. Fun times.
In 1984, I was in Fort Benning for jump school. I asked a Marine who was also in the school about promotions in the USMC. He said that he had 4 years in, no NJPs and was only an E-4. You tell some wild stories and your experience is relatable to many of us during that era of service. People seem to forget that the post-Vietnam era wasn't a popular time to be in the US Military. Especially the Marine Corps or US Army but someone had to do it. Remember the US population is over 350 million but there are only 18 million veterans. AATW!
Another incident around this time was, as I indicated to UV, Sgt. "Sam's" well-known buffoonery and its influence on his people. What his real name was, I've long forgotten but wouldn't use it if I knew; Sgt. "Sam" was one of those E-5's who no one respected--it happens sometimes--he was a nice guy, though, I was always nice to him due to how much shit he got from others--you'd feel sorry for the last time some E-3 gave him a swift kick. I roomed with "Izzy" (whose name is also essentially changed) and Kilo's corpsman--it's amazing I roomed with anyone, actually--when a crackhead knocks on my door now I get annoyed and how did three dudes share one room without losing it. So, Sgt "Sam" was getting people up for reveille, which they often had to do of course, which meant his job was interrupting hang-overs--he comes in our room one morning, which I now find odd once again, we were up, but not entirely, and you had to be up for real, or it would be one knock after another until you did--"Izzy" snapped on Sgt. "Sam," cussed him out as he sat in his rack, which was, again, common with Sgt. "Sam." I recall the Suck telling him if he didn't make Staff the next time he was up for it, he was going home and it was over--that's how bad he was at what he did (I was too inexperienced at the time to ever consider he might be crazy or that maybe he could have used an MCI called "The Marine NCO Who Is Never Respected And How To Prepare For Discharge"). But their beef wasn't about reveille--Sgt. "Sam" was from a borough in New York "Izzy" had a problem with--that's what it was about. A turf war at Lejeune is what I witnessed--a lesser borough was telling a superior borough what to do and the latter wasn't having it. I've forgotten where the two were from, nor do I know to this day why one New York borough fights the other, or if they do--who knows if the Bronx is better than someone from Queens--Sgt. "Sam" typically responded with what he'd commonly tell people who dumped on him "C'mon, Izzy now--don't be that way--don't be like that, get up, man. Be cool, it don't have to be all that--let's go Kilo--let's go, etc.,." (GBH had a song called "Sam Is Your Leader" a song title that naturally got written on our helmets the minute we became aware of it).
There were some who left Lejeune as PFC''s but this reminded me of other E-3's I knew before who never got farther than that, nor had they ever been busted.
He may have made it in 8 months but I knew people who never made E-4 who had to have been in just as long; they made me an E-4 whether I liked it or not then gave me people to tell what to do--I liked that even less but there was nothing much I could do about it--especially on ship--there was really nothing I could do about it, then. I wonder why some left Lejeune as E-3's, though, they had to have known they were up for promotion the same as I knew people who'd become NCO's kind of sucked--but they also sucked before.
I was in Army OCS when that went down at 29 Palms and it was a big deal, not just in the Corps. Accountability is the most important job senior NCOs and officers have in the military.
Thank you Army brother. In theory and in practice, accountability is of paramount importance. I am sure you have seen some questionable leadership in the Army; I know I had some that really surprised me. When I transferred to a new unit, the only regret I have is that I didn't do it much sooner. But all many of us can do is move on. Take care brother
No offense but from a marine grunt any officer..uhh nevermind officers don't exist in the same military as the (working class) enlisted...there are amazing officers but for the most part a college degree puts them in charge of guys who have been to combat when the butter bar himself is just out of ocs...officers should be required to do 2 years enlisted just to give them an idea of how things actually operate because the marine corps does not operate the way they tell these boot officers the way it does in ocs
My husband was in the Marine Corps at 29 palms station there at the time this occurred and it was absolutely heartbreaking when I heard about this. I worked at the PX so it never took long for anything to spread, and I will never forget what I thought, and how I felt simply living out there in that place. I couldn’t understand how this young man got lost in the desert, but then I can’t because of the terrain and the way everything is out there. It just seems like they would’ve been able to have some kind of walkie-talkie system or something going on so they would not have lost him, but they had planes and helicopters in the air nonstop all day every day for about 5 to 7 days until they gave up. That was heart wrenching!!
I do appreciate interviews like this, because you can tell that nobody would lie about any of this stuff. There's no bloating or bragging or anything like that, it's just an hour and a half of real talk.
Hey Cali, I think they should rename Camp Wilson to Camp Rother. Place a memorial and story of the commands failure as a lesson for others to see, not just hear.
You have to be some high falutin' person or some Lance Coolie tore to shreds by a 50 cal. when everyone else ran; there is actually a ship named after some VIP who disappeared because he got kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah--the latter we'd never heard of before, wouldn't hear of again, nor did we have much interest, despite current events we were now fully aware of--terrorism wasn't really a thing yet (or at least it wasn't to the boys of C 1/8). I did a SAW MCI I'd forgotten about entirely; if they had a Terrorism MCI I would probably still have it. You would think I would know all that, who it was and what happened, but I still don't; we went to the Med to puke in public toilets, not to actually do something (one time black oil came shooting out of me all over the place--and it was only our first bar of the day, too, the owner of the bar came in so we got out of there--it must have been a craft brew and lots of it). When the guy got kidnapped the terrorists claimed they still had him alive but it was heard that our people could tell by photos that they'd already killed him (those persons probably in Washington somewhere and not on the USS Iwo Jima LPH-2 with us). We actually hung off the coast of Lebanon for about a month because of it--I don't think we ever saw land, but we were all pumped because we thought we were going to kick some ass we actually knew nothing about; but believe me when I tell you that about a month is all you can take on ship--it was about all we could take (and I think they knew that). We mopped the same floors for about a month, listening to the same Clash record all that time--then took off and did the rest of the Med as if nothing had happened--when we got home, we told people how I spewed the walls with some black shit I drank but if you asked me the name of that officer now I still wouldn't know without looking it up--despite a ship named after him I learned of many years later--it's important to mention how ignorant and stupid you were in your 20's. How the entire world flew right by you. I forgot about that incident altogether entirely until looking into my SRB in 1991 where I saw it listed (I'd made copies of my SRB and so did others--but that's another story of how stupid we were when that was found-out).
I was a 4 year Lance 0311 also. 1987 to 1991. We heard about a Marine left to die at the Stumps. I was 1st Marine Div and the only thing I remember is being told about it as a way to say the 2nd Marine Division was unsat. They made no effort to warn us it could happen or explain how it happened or to who. The Senior NCO's only told it as a way to crap on the 2nd Division. I remember thinking at the Stumps that you could easily get killed around there in training. Especially CAX. I and some guys in my squad almost got run over by an Amtrak that ran through the area we were bedded down for the night in.
I was an 0331 in K 3/2. When I got my orders it was kill your own kilo. There were so many bad stories I was told when I got there. I have so many great memories of my time at 3/2. Semper Fi!!!
I don't recognize your name but I was one of the crew after some of the crew EAS'd soon after I got there--all that happens is when people go home is the Suck issues you more drinking buddies fresh out of boot camp--it's your job to break them in--if you do your job well they soon become just like you: Alcoholics who lost their driver's licenses always bumming for a smoke--"Kill Your Own Kilo" is a new one to me but I did know that K 3/2 wasn't the best of units by far--that was an easy one; it was so bad I always thought that those who did all their time there missed-out on a great deal (one of the homies I went to ITS with was in our platoon--I had no idea until recently he must have been with K 3/2 since ITS--I thought he got transferred there from somewhere else like I had--H 2/8 sent me to 3/2 but why I actually no longer have any idea--probably because my Lance Corporal chevrons were no longer serviceable--when they see that, they know you can't be helped and that they must act fast).
I remember hearing the story of that Marine that had died in the Stumps. They don't tell you who, what, when. I thought it was during my time, much later, and had no idea it was in the 80s. Thanks for the details and shedding light on the situation. RIP Rother 🙏
I was in the corps at that time. It was a snafu on everyone from the Battalion Co to the Platoon Sgt. Embarrassing and unacceptable. Especially the way the corps treated his family. RIP Lcpl Rother
As the unit was preparing to retrograde out of the training area after their CAX, they had road guards staged at certain junctions, as the convoy departed the area at night, the last vehicle failed to stop and pick up LCpl Rother, he was left there. When the Battalion returned Camp Pendleton, they marked him as UA....unsure how long after; A country Sheriffs & Fire Department Search and Rescue team on a Training Mission discovered his remains...
Brother , thank you so much for doing this video. Jason Jay Rother will always be remembered by those who love the Marine Corps. It still sickens my heart to think we left him out there. Did my time in the late 80’s in “stumps” I remembered the news breaking on the base. I couldn’t believe it. All posted positions like that should have radios. I hope things have changed for the better. To Jason family, we are truly sorry. He deserved the very best recuse, and we blew it.
I didn't know Rother was in the same platoon I would be in much later until seeing Wilson's other video on my phone last night; it's also incredibly odd to be on your phone and see your former Lejeune drinking buddy coming-up next on RU-vid.
I went in in 93-98 I Did three separate floats on 3 separate boats with MSSG-31. Each time was a kick in the ass. I got my shellback on the 2nd float. Did it all while stationed in Okinawa My first and Last duty station. I never made it stateside in the fleet. I Pinned on Sgt two months after my 4 year mark! Becoming a Marine was the best thing I ever did. I sure Miss those guys they made my time in so memorable. Especially before picking up NCO it was all fun and games from E1-E3. That was the best time of my life. I have regretted not staying in in fact. I got a call 2 months later from one of my Corporals saying my unit was being sent to Iraq. It was another 3 months when I got a letter that we lost 35 guys in an ambush. I knew each and everyone of them. Gone but not forgotten! Semper Fi Brothers! Till Valhalla we meet again. We all trained for the call I just happened to EAS out before it came. I'll live with that for the rest of my life. I truly felt I should have been there with my Marines!
My dad joined the Marine Corps in 1952 and retired as a 1st. Sgt. in 1983. He was a Korean and Vietnam vet. He spent about 10 years in the Reserves between wars. He got out as soon as he had his 20 active in. He had E-9 locked in. All he to do was reup for 3 years. He told me that the Marines were going to shit and he didn't think it was worth it. RIP Dad. You wouldn't believe this world now.
Right I remember the incident at the Stumps, with “Rother”. We knew it didn’t smell right and his command let him down. Thanks for keeping his name and memory alive. Of course the Corps didn’t learn, late ‘91 we were at CAX doing normal CAX shit one of our birds flew over a broken down hummer with 2 Marines, we picked them up and brought them back to the airfield. Lucky they were out of water and on their last MRE. They were out there for 2 days and told by their CC they would get picked up. Our Major (acting CO) was a mustang with Vietnam as a grunt Sergeant. He went to their command and from what I understand dressed down their CC in front of everyone.
Short story. I enlisted in the Army to become an Airborne Infantryman or as a Paratrooper. Got screwed by the Green Wiene to mechanized infantry in Germany for 2 years and 1 year at Ft. Carson Colorado. I had to re-enlist for 6 months to make my dream come true to be in a Paratrooper in an Airborne Battalion in Panama. I got there and enjoyed jumping out of airplanes and helicopters and do Paratrooper shit. December 1989 did my first combat in the Panama Invasion, missed the first Gulf War but made it to the 2nd Gulf War from 2006-08. The rest is my personal history, good stories but around 2017 when on Face Book I got in touch with friends from my Airborne Company from Panama. At 50 years old I went to Texas to meet up with them and jumped out of a WWII vintage C-47 every year up till 2020. Even as an old dude like me it brought me tears to my eyes as I jumped with my friends as like young Paratroopers. I love your stories as a young Marine, Army Infantrymen and Paratroopers are no different from you when we did Shenanigans... I cherish those memories of us as being horny young men chasing after pussy anywhere in the world. I think for our generation we as young men with Dads from the WWII, Korea, and Vietnam generation were passed on to us to be wild, strong men. I don't know what broke down with young boys today? I had many young guys as Millennials as soldiers under my command during 2006-08. They became fathers and now grandfathers. I don't blame the kids for not joining now. I truly discourage them because boys and men should make an informed decision for themselves in joining the military or go into combat when Iraq and the Stan was hot back then. Honestly after Panama 1989-90 I fully understood what my Dad had experienced about combat at the end of WWII and Korea and my 2 Uncles in Vietnam who were with the 101st Airborne and later with new recruits from the new brigades out of Basic and Infantry School into Vietnam because they became squad leaders and platoon sergeants. My Uncles as NCOs had to bitch slap new Officers to how combat conditions were like in combat. When I was in Iraq conditions were different as first of the beginning of the conflict, there were 2 classes of soldiers like in Vietnam. The FOBBITs were the soldiers who stayed behind the wire or POGs, us the Infantry, combat engineers, tankers, SF, or guys attached to or assigned to convoy security got to experience some IED attacks or combat got to become casualties. I got to experience some horrible stuff but not as hard as my Dad or my Uncles from Vietnam. Sorry it got long, it's just memories i have, everyone is different but tell the same story. I did love my times before the Panama Invasion of chasing women and having a good time at my young life back then.🤣🤣🤣😍😍😍💪💪💪👍👍👍
I was a Plt, Cmdr, at 3/2 (Lima, Wpns, and Kilo) from Aug. '85 - Apr. '87, before going to work for the Bn S-3 that summer. I recall when the new batch of 2nd Lt's arrived that summer and briefly meeting Lt. Lawson. If I recall, I had transferred to the regimental HQ"s Co., at the time 3/2 headed to their CAX, and was working for the 2nd Marines, Regimental Cmdr., when word arrived that 3/2 had lost a Marine while at CAX (I had forgotten it had taken 4 months to recover his remains). While everyone was stunned to hear of what actually happended, it hit those of us who'd served at 3/2 hard. 3/2 had been a damn good battalion. It was the first USMC unit to put an entire battalion on skis and take it to the Brits, Norwegians, and Dutch, during a NATO exercise in northern Norway in March '87. The Brits especially didn't expect us to take the fight to them up in the hills. While still at 3/2, and concluding w/the NATO exercise, I may have had issues w/the Bn Cmd itself, but all the S shops and company commands were solid, manned by good officers, SNCO's and NCO's. It was stunning how fast the Bn leadership had deteriorated over the span of a few months that summer. It turns out Lt. Lawson was a genuine shit-bird who should have never been commissioned. A simple head count at the end of the exercise and verification of who was on working parties could have prevented this tragedy. Apparently none of that was done. Lcpl. Rother, your brothers failed you, but your efforts to save yourself until you couldn't go any further, set an example for us all. Your death gave us the hard lesson on how leadership and accountability, are inseparable. RIP Brother.
I was in the USN from 11/84 until 06/2005. This man's story is the most honest and down to earth I have ever heard. No There I Was or I told the Colonel. Just bs. Very refreshing. Thank you.
I was in L/3/2 at that CAX. The exercrsize concluded with a night motor march through the desert. This was the era before GPS, and night navigation in the desert is difficult. To facilitate the movement the heavy guns platoon under Lt Lawson was employed as a route guide. This platoon was augmented by Marines from the line companies. To cover a fork in the road, Lt. Lawson ordered that a pair of Marines be split apart. The Marines objected, but followed orders. When the road guards were recovered Lt Lawson was reminded that they had been split apart, but Lawson insisted that another element had recovered LCpl Rother. ENDEX was around 0630 that morning. About two days after returning to Camp Wilson the alarm went up and we were on trucks headed back out to the training area. Rother's absence was first noted by the K company armorer. They assumed that he was on a detail policing a range. The story I subsequently heard was that Rother's squad leader had cut a deal with the platoon sergeant to go see his girlfriend. When the detail returned without LCpl Rother the alarm button was well and truly pushed.
@@fpftraining I was in 3/2 S-2 during that CAX. We searched for 2 days and unfortunately, we went in the wrong direction. it was a horrible experience and i remember the entire bn was devastated by this event. Prior to that CAX, we lost a Marine at the Schwab live fire range right before we were to rotate back to Lejeune. The Bn CO was relieved then when we get to CAX and this new Bn CO was relieved as well. Rough times. RIP Rother.. this joker talking wasn't even there..
The Rother incident is one that I taught every class during my time as an instructor of future Marine Corps officers and every leadership course I was part of.
Great interview. I’ve been an active duty Marine for over a decade. I’m an infantryman. And I’ve been to 29 palms many times. I’ve heard the story of the Marine left behind multiple times each time we left to train in 29 palms. I never knew his name, his unit, his MOS, etc. Which is weird since it is one of the most notorious incidents in the history of the Marine Corps.
I retired a few years ago, the LCpl Rother Investigation used to be on the Marine Corps Safety Center Website. This was an excellent PME to conduct with Marines specifically SNCO’s prior to an exercise. It’s one that as a group you meet, read through and discuss. The glaring theme throughout was the assumptions of accountability. Unfortunately, this scenario is far to easy to replicate post exercise when its a mad dash trying to secure. Leaders have to keep Rother in mind, “unbound by weight of command.” If no longer on the site I highly recommend taking to your senior enlisted or emailing the Safety Center. S/F
That one was very tragic; but, research the one about a year ago when an LAV drown with Marines and with one or two Sailors.. Those vehicles needed to be replaced with modern ones.
That's solid, brother. Recruiters can be something else. I had two major characters. They remind me of salesmen hustlers. I did Recruiter's Assistance, what bullshit it was. I was so very glad when it was over.
Hello, Fellow Alum! I showed up to 3/2 as a total boot Grunt about 6 months after you. I was in India Co. I recall all the Rother lore as well. Absolute tragedy and avoidable as hell. Thanks for remembering him and his cautionary tale. I ended up retiring from the Suck and that lesson stayed with me. That Okinawa deployment was my first real deployment. Some of your pics brought back lots of old memories from that time and some of the faces seemed familiar to me. Korea absolutely blew balls. And that live fire...WTF was leadership even thinking (trick question, they weren't). That investigation was brutal. But we did find out who actually pulled that trigger. The guy who figured out that HE was the one was inconsolable. He had partied with Newsome. We had to hold him down so he wouldn't harm himself. But again, the Bn leadership was atrocious and more concerned about solid PFTs than solid small unit tactics. As for the terminal LCpl rank, it also seems to me that quite a few dudes in that unit ended up like that.
If you mean retired, like 20 years, I have to applaud you. That, in itself, is a major accomplishment, especially in the Suck. You are absolutely correct, some in leadership could have avoided this unfortunate tragedy. You might be familiar with the Army Soldier, Pat Tillman. That is another tragic story. There may be one too many out there. But I deeply respect our military services, all of them. But bad leadership is bad leadership.
@@d.rcarrera6599 yes, I retired. The Tillman incident was also avoidable in my opinion. Especially after hearing the accounts of those who were on deck during the engagement.
I don't know why it is such a surprise that the Corps has 4 year Lance Corporals? That is typical. There aren't that many Corporal and above billets. If you have 40 guys in a platoon you have a platoon sgt, plt guide (sgt), 3 squad leaders ( either corporals or sgts but usually corporals. You might have a couple more corporals who are team leaders. So maybe 8 NCO's TOTAL out of 40 guys. That's called math, duh!
@@user-bx3hz6wl5m I am not sure which math problem you are referring to, duh. We had one platoon Staff Sergeant and three squad leaders (NCOs) and the rest were E-2s and E-3s. Three fire teams per squad. I spent three years in the same Company and platoon. We always only had three NCOs. So, where you calculated 8 is completely beyond my comprehension. Promotion is a puzzle. You have to figure out how to play the game and who are the players. I had more experience than most in my platoon. I didn't kiss ass to be promoted. I did a third deployment and was promoted at a different unit. I only wish I would have transferred sooner. There are some good unit & there are some fucked up ones.
I walked into the recruiting office said I wanted to join the Infantry and leave as soon as I graduate, the Gunny sat up and said "Out Fuckin Standing", "Go down to the pu**y ass Army, tell then you want to join and they will take you up to MEPs tonight, they will buy you a nice supper, then when you get back come straight to my office, F**k SGT Neff, he is a punk" I said ok Gunny. Walked over to the Army office, told SGT Neff I wanted to join and he was pumped, told me to be back there at 5 that evening and he would get me to MEPs, I show up, test, sure enough he buys me a steak dinner, gets me a big old beer at 17, then we back to the recruiting center, the Marines office was to the right of the hallway just before the Army office door on the left. I was walking and then made that right turn into the Marines office. SGT Neff says "What the hell" and the Gunny waits for Neff to try walk in and Gunny yelled "F**k you Neff" and slammed the door in his face and started laughing his ass off. That was my start in the Marine Corps, the day I graduated, I walked across the stage got my diploma, went home and the graduation party was going on and 25 mimutes later my recruiter pulls up, I grab my bag hug mom and dad and off I went. 0331 0311 for 12 years saw some of the worst of combat and lost brothers, but miss the brother hood everyday
I enlisted in the Marines in 1974, after graduating from infantry school as 0341, I was assigned to Marine Barracks Guam in Dec 1974. In May 1975 the Mayaguez Incident occurred. The last casualties of the final battle of the Vietnam War were 3 Marines (from 3rd Mar Div Okinawa) left behind on Cambodia’s Koh Tang Island. Men being left behind happens. As does friendly fire. I have always believe the cause to be the result of ‘loss of command and control due to not having situational awareness.’ USMC retired.
I was in boot camp MCRD San Diego Sept. ‘74-Dec. ‘74 Plt. 3105. I went in at 165 at 6’0” and came out 6’1” at 135. Initial PFT.: sit-ups 60 in two minutes, 0 pull ups, run 3 miles in 27:58. Final PFT.: 102 sit-ups in two min., three pull-ups, 3mile run in 21:30. M.O.S. 0311. Got out in ‘76, worked security jobs at different places over a 10 year period until I decided to go to a pre-service police academy. Completed that and began a thirty plus year career in Law Enforcement. Now retired, I have time to sit back and enjoy life with my lovely wife. The Marine Corps taught me a lot and I have used that training during my entire career. My wife STILL doesn’t understand why when to old Marines meet in the store or restaurant of someplace else, we talk to each other like we’re long lost Brothers. It is a Brotherhood like no other, forged in boot camp and remains that way during the rest of your life. Law Enforcement is not just a career but a life style as is being a United States Marine. Semper Fidelis, Marine!
SF brother 🤙🏼🇺🇸👊🏼 thanks for sharing your experience. If you ever want to share more send me an email Josh@urbanvalor.com we would love to hear your experiences brother
I was there for that operation and remember it well. It was crazy, kid was from Minnesota. There really wasn't a hard search for this Marine. And lot was swept under the rug.
I went to 29 Palms for EMV it 2010 and heard Rother's story in a safety briefing at Camp Wilson before they sent us out to the field. They did mention him by name and told pretty much the same story you did. Side note: the Marine who was supposed to be with him, Lance Corporal Key, was place at a different road that had not been accounted for when they planned the mission. When they picked him up, he told them that Rother was nearby and they needed to make sure he had been picked up. He was told bey the Lieutenant to shut up because he was a Lance Corporal. Some truly tragic stuff.
I remember when this happened as an NCO this incident was used to hammer into us to keep accountability of your Marines. Even when I became an SNCO I related this story to my NCO's. Thanks for giving the Marine's named.
I remember the lost Marine story when I was in boot late 88. I reheard the story again when I hit the fleet and went to 29 Palms from Tustin during training.
I was an achiever, back then, but lately I'm thinking like the platoon skate: "If I fake this, will it work..?" I also know the handy-man for The Budget Inn--that's never good--in fact, if he sees me, he says something--those are my people nowadays--it's impossible to avoid them. Even if you say nothing or act like you don't see them because they're low-life's, they'll say something and you have to answer.
I distinctly remember the story about Rother's death. I was in my 5th year in the Canadian infantry. We were stunned that a top military force like the USMC would abandon a man alone in the desert like that. I'll admit we were pretty smug about it while not admitting to ourselves that we'd done some pretty dumb shit ourselves.
Hey KW, I had a friend that rode cruiser class out of Indio in about the same time period, Mark Salmon. Did some time in the army after school. Just wonder if you might have crossed paths. It’s going back a few years but looking back, it’s a small world. Cool to hear of your adventure, after my tour I wound up a trucker as well. Local, doesn’t pay as well but home every night. Hammer down, brother.
Memories. MarDet, USS Coral Sea (when Marines were assigned to aircraft carriers on Sea Duty). Did on load, off loads in my 3 years with the Marines of MB Alameda and DOE. . Fast forward 8 years, MB NSB Bangor Wa. Standing M8 in the wire as the OD. Many times those black vehicles visited us in Washington. The Ghost of LCpl Jelly lives on. Was there that night right after it happened and had one of my Sgt’s relieve the SOG that night. Very rewarding tours in my 21 years.
That is a good recount of the Rother story. I was a radio operator with regimental headquarters for 2nd Marines at the time. And believe it or not, I was the first person to reach Rother’s gear and the arrow he made with rocks. It is true that they said he went UA. The captain who was with me said that, but I think he got that from some meeting they had with the folks at 3/2. Nevertheless, I told him that didn’t make much sense because if you wanted to go UA you could just leave the base in a vehicle and not come back. He was a bit of a dick and acted like that was the dumbest thing he had ever heard. The only thing I would say that might be a little different from this story is that we did have a search and rescue dog team out there on the search, but that was probably 3, maybe 4 days, after he was missing. He was already dead at that point. The 3/2 battalion commander was a total asshole. I forgot about the guy who later got killed with the M-60, and I, too, heard that General Gray said exactly what this guy said he said. This story takes me back…
The story of Rother......passed down thru the years. I was in from 1995 thru 2015 and every single time I went to the Stumps we heard this story. Many different variations of this story exist but 1 thing for sure it will never be forgotten nor explained in a million different variations
Man i retired from 29 Palms in 2015. 20 years just to retire from that shit hole. I didnt even want a retirement ceremony i was just ready to go down the big ass mountain to get to i10. Lol
I was in 29 Palms CAX in 1994. They gave us maps, extra water containers that we had to carry. We had a long briefing about keeping up with your fellow Marine. We were told about this situation and had to take extra survival classes. It is so crazy how your story relates to my experience in the USMC.
I was in when this incident happened. EVERYONE heard about it. After that incident we couldn't go anywhere without doing a head count. Quite a sad story, and yes, they did screw that Marine over by leaving him.
I just looked up Rother a few hours ago and then this episode popped up on my RU-vid. I remember when he went missing we went to 29 palms to do a CAX a month later working up for float in ‘89. We used to call it Lifer Lance. I had 36 months as one. Since MCI answers were floating around the barracks it was easy to fatten up your cutting score. I got in trouble once, so the only thing I had on my record is a summary courts Martial . Got that two weeks before my three year mark. So no good conduct for me. But I Did get promoted to Cpl six months before I got out. I had a shitty RE code and my career jammer told me I could reenlist but probably only get one more contract so I got out in Jan ‘90. Saadam who? Invaded where? I wish I would’ve gotten a heads up so I could’ve stayed in. Don’t know about you, but personally the whole Thank you for your service makes me uncomfortable because I didn’t do anything. I missed my war.Nukes, Pattaya beach ,even Pasadena and the Cult. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. 2:20
Brother I did 6 years active duty 86-92. Stationed at MCAS El Toro. I was a 5 year corporal...senior Cpl in the Corps when I got out. My MOS was closed for 4.5 years, so when my enlistment was up, I got out. Took a couple of scrub jobs and went to college. 10 months after I got out, I took a job in Kuwait setting up their F-18 program. Went back to El Toro and recruited 10 buddies that I knew were getting out to come work with me. Our good times just continued on, except now we had money. It was awesome. I loved the Corps and the brotherhood, but hated the Bullshit. Been working Aviation for over 30 years now, mostly contract maintenance. Ohhhh-Rahhhh!
Wow! I am overwhelmed by your life story and your energy! Thank you for putting this out there. I would love to hear an interview with you and Jesse Dollemore, another retired Marine! Wishing you all the best!
Does Kevin remind anybody of Tom Sizemore or is it just me? (Sizemore was in Saving Private Ryan, Blackhawk Down) Great interview, super honest and forthright. I lived 42 miles west of where Rother was found in Newberry Springs as a kid. I later went on to be a paramedic on a private ambulance in Joshua Tree, and I knew that area well. To walk that far in July is truly astonishing. To perish only minutes away from Hwy 66 is heartbreaking. Hats off to the San Bernardino County S&R volunteers who looked for, and found, his remains. Next time I'm out that way I will stop at his memorial and remember.
I’m a retired deputy Search Manager for San Bernardino County and the Rother incident has been used through the years in training. The incident helped fundamentally change how searches were to be conducted in the desert and the exigency of the importance of the mobilization of a hasty team and PLS vs LKP. 🙏
I was at a CAX with VMA-242 shortly after this happened( cant remember exact year) .We were working out of the airfield at Deadman Dry Lake.We were told the story during a “ safety briefing”…the whole “ arrow” part….true. We were told he was found under a bush where he had rigged up a shade /shelter with his “blouse”. He had apparently expended all of his blanks to thward off coyotes…….but they eventually got to him.
I was on my 10 day boot leave when Rother died. I reported to SOI Pendleton in the first week of September 88. We did one of the first training evolutions of MCT (it was 34 days at the time, if memory serves correctly). I did my first CAX with 3/9 at the stumps in early 1989, and that's when I heard the story. That Marine got royally fucked by his unit. Fair winds and following seas Rother. As for Okinawa, I was back there from 2012 to 2016 as a civilian (had been before on a UDP to Schwab). I absolutely LOVED it as a civilian. Hoping to go back for another 3 years. Miss that place badly. (Regarding Thailand, you were part of Operation Cobra Gold 😉)
I remember this incident. I was with 1st Recon Bn. at the time when it happened. We were training at Twenty-Nine Palms when we heard about the kid just left at a dirt road intersection after directing vehicles. Total lack of accountability at the time.
I was stationed in The Stumps w 3d Tank Bn when this happened. Learned more from this video about what really happened than all the rumors that flew around base for months. RIP Marine
I setved in the Marines from '85 to '90. I remember that incident at Camp Wilson. I was on Sea Duty at the time. I was an 0811 with 2/10 and did two CAXs at Camp Wilson.
I feel him on the promotion, Ive been in the Army almost 5 years and still a Corporal. Leadership wont promote if you're not kissing their ass the right way. On my way to Fort Couch in the next couple of months!
I was entirely unaware Wilson went to the Gulf but had always wondered why he didn't re-up and join us--a bad idea that would have been--when we got back to the U.S. they let all us short-timers go--if he had re-upped he would have been stuck with four more years (at the time, no one knew when the desert/ship bullshit would ever end--if it ever would).
I was with the 10th Marine reg artillery we all got on line and looked for jason, I remember calling out his name as we searched. We were having night time manauvers and eventially we turned our lights on just to find our way back. They told us that he went UA. I think about that night every day.
There are a lot of parallels between the peace time marines and the peace time army. I spent some time at NTC with the first Cav division and remember the missing marine story. It’s unfortunate that it was true. Not a myth. His stories tell how dangerous even the peace time military is.
This is my kind of guy. Especially the end, I was a war-time Marine and I did not like being in. I am proud of my time though. He's got some great stories.
Great stories. I was in the same time as you. I actually tried to join the navy out of HS but was disqualified at MEPS because of a heart issue I told my recruiter about. My dad was originally from Scotland so I bought a one way ticket to the UK and joined the British Army. They discovered my heart issue during a physical while in training so I was booted out 6 months later. About a year after returning to the US I got a call from an army recruiter. I told him I was rejected from the navy. He told me that they only kept records on the "active" computer for 18 months then it was taken off the computer and put on microfiche (this was the days of magnetic storage) so to come down and retake the ASVAB. I did and walked into the Marine recruiting office in Anaheim, CA after my ASVAB score came back and the army recruiter verified I was no longer on the "active" computer. I couldn't do that today as storage is digital and limitless so I'll always be on the "active" computer. The doctor at Camp Lester Naval Hospital in Okinawa discovered my heart issue on my exit physical when I was getting out of the Corps...LOL! The fact that I was in the Marines made the LAPD doctor overlook my heart issued when I tried to join the LAPD and he signed off on my physical. The USMC opened the door to a wonderful 26 year career with the LAPD. No shame in being a 4 year Lcpl. I got out as an E-3. That was the era when the Corps was big on the contract corporal program. If you signed on for 6 years you were guaranteed E-4 in 18 months. Because of that the E-4 billets were being constantly filled. I was an MP and as an MP the only way you'd see E-4 before your 4 years was up was meritoriously or you MIGHT get it a couple of months before discharging if you maxed out your composite score (maxed MCIs, PFTs, rifle range, etc...). I was also on a CAX at 29 Palms around the same time as the Jason Rother incident. I don't recall if it was the same CAX as they were always running CAXes back to back. What they didn't report, after they found his remains, is that they didn't find his skull for around a year after. Apparently the coyotes had carried it off. I only know about it because I read about it in the newspaper when they found it. Semper Fi, Marine!
I put "Chow Hall NCOIC" on my resume, which I was on the USS La Moure County, but I do that to see if they get it--if they have a sense of humor--if they're a jarhead, too, they usually get it. It was, of course, the world's stupidest title.
I was a similar, didn’t really give a crap, drink, fight, sex, peace time Marine! (83-87) I appreciate his honesty! I too am extremely proud to be a United States Marine! Semper-Fi
Oh my gosh!! my husband and I were stationed out in 29 Palms California when that happened around 1990!! we were stationed there from January 1989 until January 1992 and I believe it was 1998 because I was pregnant 1989. I PRAYED Over and over that they would find a young man and they had helicopters and planes flying all day and night, looking for him, and they couldn’t find him. He was a reservist from what I remember, and I couldn’t understand how he got separated from the unit.. I couldn’t understand why they couldn’t see him, except it was in the desert, and he was wearing desert camouflage, but it was heartbreaking!!
I think your dates are wrong. He was lost in August (31st) of 1988 and the body was found in December of 1988. It wasn't a reserve unit it was 3/2 Kilo Company.
I remember this incident of course it was told throughout the Corps, My unit had conducted a CAX sometime after this incident, we lost a couple of our own in that heat of 29 palms.
So, Brother: I have you. My date of rack for L/Cpl was 01 May 1983. I made Cpl 01 September 1985. I got out August 1986. I reenlisted 03 April 1989, The MARINE CORPS in it great wisdom said I had to go back to L/Cpl. So the Top(MSgt) says to me I need a date of rank for the paperwork. What do you want to put there, I said 01 May 1983. So I was a L/Cpl 5 years 11 months, and two days time and grade, with no page 11, no office hours, or court martial. They made me wait 13 months for Cpl (damm I was getting a attitude). So my second date of rank was 01 May 1990. I had been a E-3 L/Cpl with 7 years time and grade.
Im also gonna say i was 2/1 2001 to 2005, we STILL got that story....it hasnt been until the more "updated" internet that we were afforded what really happened......
It's been on Wikipedia for some time; it may have explained The Suck's near obsession with manifests: our next of kin, SSN and other shit they clearly knew all about long ago--and if they didn't, they knew where we lived so could have knocked for more information.
I was with H Btry 3/10 from Lejeune. Every morning rain or shine, we performed rifle counts...This Marine was missing 2-3 days before they even decided to search for him....They relieved the entire chain of Command for that FUBAR!
We all flew out from Camp Lejeune to 29 Palms. Every morning we had formation. Each of us NCO's conducted a rifle inspection. Accountability for the M-16 was important....This Marine was missing for 2-3 days and had his rifle with him, I think it was an M203? So, not having Accountability for the rifle for 2-3 days tells you right there......Anyway, I followed the case.....His buddy mentioned he was allegedly on a working party, but no one had seen him for a few days....
A working party usually makes people disappear for that long; while I find the whole thing impossible to believe, it is also true I missed an entire formation in boot camp but wasn't noticed--that, too, though, would also seem impossible but because of the disaster it was at the time, I remember it well. I also remember it because if I got caught--I would have certainly remembered the results had I been discovered--all know what that would have probably resulted in. I saw two people in the 3rd Bn chow hall on two different occasions that I'd went to school in MD with that I knew--I was too dumb to have considered that after we moved to North Carolina, people I used to know in MD would have done the same thing I did in N.C. (the recruiter in MD located under an arcade in Iverson Mall at the time--who knows if it's still there but it could be--it was an old-school recruiter from what I remember--the kind who told you go move on, unless you wanted to be a man that day and sign-up). I avoided the recruiter but because I had no interest in it; the "Playboy" pinball machine above, though, was a huge attraction--it was the closest we would get to some real action for years--we still had to pay for it, though. So, I'm in the chow hall and I see a guy I went to school with in MD; I no longer recall which one got myself in trouble but one of the two I spoke with for too long. As a result, I went outside after chow but the platoon was gone; I had plenty of ways to explain this, but was too stupid to think of any one of them at the time--life has since made me a professional bull-shitter. If I ran over the Queen of England accidentally, I could pin the whole thing on the Crown, no problem. I did all I could think of doing: I hauled ass to the barracks. I was all alone out there on the parade deck making it a stupid choice--it was not a time for thinking clearly. If I had marched in a military manner I could have fooled anyone who'd noticed me--they would have thought I'd been tasked by some D.I. to go somewhere on my own but come right back (I actually had to do that once, and as I did so, had to make right turns and march in a military manner all the way to whatever it was I had to do, then do the same all the way back to the barracks--I did so, despite no one watching me to make sure--that was on account of the thorough brain-washing I'd already received--I think I went to the armory but no longer remember). I ran to the barracks, ran up a flight of stairs, I no longer remember which floor we were on but know it wasn't ground level--look in the door through the chicken-wire encased in the glass--everyone is on line, that indicated they'd just got there--they did--I sneak-in, run behind the racks and get on line which is close to the D.I. per my last name ending nearly last. Right as I got on line, one of our D.I.'s comes out of the D.I. hut. I cannot believe they didn't notice me missing--it was also rather impossible that someone didn't rat me out. There were a few people I could have done without--if it had been one of them it would have been my pleasure. As far as I know, no one noticed and they should have--I was the quarterdeck king in boot camp. If anyone remembers me, they'll remember me for that.
Instructor at MCSF schools for a year (I was nicknamed Splatmasterson )& then 2 years at MCSF co CINCLANT Plt Sgt at 89-91 . I was OD at the wire for those 2 years & can verify those stories ! Loved sSecurity Forces ! Semper Fi
My dad was a Marine and he blew his top when he found out I wanted to go into the Navy. Shortly before going to MEPS my recruiter told me he couldn't get me in doing what I wanted to do so I backed out. I regret that move to this day.
My hometown is Va Beach. Great place to grow up. I left when I was in my forties. Moved to the mountains in Va. Not a fan of Norfolk. Or Portsmouth. But Va Beach is fun and there's always something to do. Places to go. Miles of beach. Muliple places to access the beach. Not just the main beach area. Lots of nightlife. But it's gotten very crowded. And people still buy houses around the base Oceana then complain about the jet noise like someone snuck in in the middle of the night and dropped a base near their home. If you buy a house in Va unless you go to the outskirts towards Chesapeake you're going to have to deal with jet noise. It's a master airbase. And it's important.
I almost hate to admit that I was in the Marine Corps, after listening to this ! Totally FUBAR ! I can't believe what I'm hearing ! Much different in the late '70's ! This is really sickening ! This deserves at least a WTF.....?
Loved hearing his wisdom. Thank you for sharing your story Wilson. @urbanvalor i really miss your old interview style. These new interviews feel so rushed. I miss hearing your little bit of commentary as well. These feel like mtv interviews now. Please go back to the old style.
Look I went down to the army recruiting place down town 5 of us were there they asked if we had any traffic tickets which I did, he told me go pay your ticket and come back, wow I was shocked I figured they would pay it because I was signing my life away, but while I was in the recruiting office I overheard a sergeant telling an enlisted man telling him off about being late etc and that they owned him, so I left remember I had to go.pay my ticket ok well I did some thinking and decided to go to trade school instead which probably saved my life
It was an unfortunate incident. He tried to handle it himself and unfortunately didnt know the training area. He walked west out of the training area toward the highway. If he had stayed put we probably would have found him because the combat service support group was right behind the infantry in the corridor. But no excuse for his command not following up. They could have radioed us or the air wing to look for him. Very sad story.
Got to 29 Palms in 91 after this. Story we were told was Commandant wanted to execute the Commander for leaving this Marine behind. Obviously a break down in communication in the unit and Commandant was prohibited from killing the guy. Was told he covered himself with a poncho liner with no venting.
Terrifically told !!! This guy should public speaking. I watched intensely for what seemed like a short story. Absolutely gr8 👍. If this guy ever wants to come visit Toronto I'll take him to some pro fights and sparing sessions with pro's. It's all about doing it and the story ✌️.
You remind me of my dad. He was17 yrs old and joined the army. He was a stocky strong young man the youngest brother of 4 tobacco farm boys. Dad lied about his age to join like a lot did back then. He made some mistakes partying and being with the girls. He broke Curfews too and one time they came so close to catching him. He got turned into MPs by a Pol for fighting. So he was caught out of uniform. He said he thought he was discharged that time but the Soldier/ Commander he was put before listened to why Dad was fighting with the Pol and why he was out of uniform. The army listened and had mercy on him. Dad was given back his stuff and he put his bedroll and personal belongings back in his barrack. They were all surprised to see him back. At times he was a stinker in the service. It all took place in Germany
