Mark Zuckerberg: First Interview in the Metaverse | Lex Fridman Podcast  

Thank you for listening ❤ Here are the timestamps: Transcript: lexfridman.com/mark-zuckerberg-3-transcript 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: 0:52 - Metaverse 15:27 - Quest 3 30:16 - Nature of reality 34:54 - AI in the Metaverse 51:51 - Large language models 57:49 - Future of humanity Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast: - LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - Eight Sleep: www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - AG1: drinkag1.com/lex to get 1 month supply of fish oil - NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour

Mark and Lex have finally revealed their true form.

The most unrealistic thing about this VR projection is that Lex isn’t wearing a suit and tie

Nice to see that Lex and Mark are thriving in their natural environment

Timestamps: 1:05 Lex is astounded, thinks this is so great 1:31 Lex thinks this is incredible 1:52 Lex thinks this is the most incredible thing he's ever seen 2:08 Lex thinks this is just really incredible 2:19 Lex thinks this is truly truly incredible 2:34 Lex thinks this is really really incredible 8:16 Lex is just almost at a loss for words this is just so incredible this is truly incredible he hopes that people like watching this can get a glimpse of like how incredible it is 11:42 Lex thinks this is an incredible transition to something else 13:55 Lex's mind is blown he's literally at a loss for words cuz its very difficult to convey how incredible this is 14:13 Lex thinks this is awesome 29:54 Lex thinks this is totally a game changer he can see himself sticking with this for a long time 30:15 Lex is already forgetting that Mark is not real, like this really.. its novel 44:45 Lex is getting his mind blown and is just really excited 57:51 Lex and Mark are talking about AI but Lex is still blown away 1:03:26 For Lex this is really really exciting. He's really excited for this future 1:03:51 Lex is getting his mind blown and can't quite express/ would love to measure his heart rate 1:04:11 This really blew Lex's mind and its one of the most incredible experiences of his life 1:04:24 Lex thinks this is so, so amazing. This is so amazing

Lex leaning into Mark and going “and it’s not awkward to be close to you” and Mark going “no, it does. I moved you back”. Was a very funny opening

Good to see lex in his native environment

I wish they would release a version of this as a VR video. I would definitely throw on my Quest to watch it that way.

It’s like watching two hostages tied up in a dark basement having a chat.

Everyone clowns on Meta but this tech is nothing short of incredible.

This is insane. Mark looks more real than he does in real life.

It’s incredible that this is ACTUALLY a thing that is REALLY HAPPENING. It seems like just yesterday that my mind was blown at the fact that a virtual headset could even exist, but THIS?! This is something else.

Just got the Quest 3: • *Hand tracking* is incredible. After a while though, I go back to the controllers because there's a slight latency between my physical hand and the virtual hand - a little annoying. • *Passthrough* nothing too spectacular on its own, but boy is it cool to see virtual objects overlayed on top of your living room (referring to the First Encounters demo here). • *Resolution* is pretty freakin good. Sure, Meta apps are gonna look better than 3rd-party ones, but they'll soon catch up over the next couple of years. I'm stoked for the day Meta can implement eye-tracking onto an MR headset. At that point, being able to click on things just by looking at them and then tapping your fingers AND being able to see your surrounding physical environment just... blows my mind.

Meta should host these types of interviews with 3d recordings so you could sit next to them and listen to the conversation in VR. That would be surreal.

Imagine a podcast where you, the listener, are the third seat at the table and you can convincingly be in the same room as the two people talking.

“Sitting in a dark room which is familiar for your podcast “ lol

Right from the beginning this discussion reminded of Ghost in the Shell. Which I recently had the pleasure of watching/binging for the first time. And it was incredible. Thought-provoking and just ahead of its time. In it, even television news anchors had virtual avatars representing them on-screen. Meetings between business men and politicians happened as one was sitting in a limo, suited up, while the other sat at some, in their underwear, but their avatar displayed to the other participant(s) of the conversation was of them fully dressed, showing up either on a separate screen that was physically in their immediate environment or it was displayed, as far as I recall, in their retinas, through a cybernetic implant, that practically projected an image across their personal field of vision, as if it was an overlay of augmented reality, which only they could see. ... 32:15 On the question of what identity, the protagonist of Ghost in Shell has been using a full cyborg body since before puberty, because of an accident. She never even menstruated. And that part definitely made me think, as it also resonated with today's culture war about gender-identity and what even makes someone either what they biologically are or what they see themselves as. What is a woman? If having a vagina and menstruating doesn't make one a woman, as some proponents of trans-rights claim, then why are some people convinced that putting on a dress, make-up and a wig can make them one? The fully cyberized people in the world of Ghost in the Shell are, as the series' name suggests, digitized individuals/souls/ghosts housed in ultimately meaningless artificial shells that could be custom-made, with any physique, genitalia, if the latter even mattered to some. Now, obviously, the main character Motoko Kusanagi is a woman, considers herself as such, is referred to as such. There's never actually a discussion about how her brain was already digitized and uploaded into a fully cybernetic body since childhood, because of an accident, and how that affected her maturing mind. The series didn't need to delve into that, but it can definitely provoke some serious reflections on certain things. In that universe, because of the level of technology and what it allows, the difference between what could be considered a man or a woman, by whatever convention, truly matters very little; or more accurately, people are able to identify however they view themselves to be, as technology allows them to match their custom-made physical bodies and all of its function to it, tailored to their detailed preferences. Similarly to the series Altered Carbon, which I also often bring up as an example to illustrate how it is presently impossible for people to be so cavalier about what they identify as and demand society to conform to their whims, as we are very much still limited by both biology and technology. That doesn't stop some from mentally already living in such a (presently fictional) utopia where merely being in a certain state mentally can be completely translated into being in it physically. No one can yet claim that they are 100% what they identify as, man or woman, both or neither, because they cannot physically/biologically completely be so, no matter how they see themselves and identify as, no matter how liberated it makes them feel, no matter the dysphoria that causes it, no matter the language and terms used. Their physical reality cannot yet be made to completely match the one in their head. If we had technology that allowed people to transfer their selves into a body of their preference, and lived in that body, either since before puberty or even starting after, they could say they're a 100% what they believe they are, because they could be, with all the biological functions, and other physical, physiological characteristic that came with it. However, were not there yet. Acknowledging that shouldn't be transphobic. It shouldn't constitute an attack, an invalidation. It is an uncomfortable, but honest reality-check. ... And about AIs in chat-rooms and video-games. It is already making waves in Skyrim, through a downloadable companion that functions through ChatGPT. And the conversation in can cobble together from all the information/lore of the game is SCARY IMPRESSIVE. At this point, pretty much the only thing they need to work on is the still rather robotic tone of its voice. If they can somehow program it to sound more natural, they're done. In games AI could definitely offer a completely and constantly fresh experience that could revolutionize replayability for just about any genre of video-game where they could work it in. In chat-rooms, and social platforms, I can definitely see how it could, perhaps, help people with social phobias and even disabilities it could stem from by offering them virtual connections they could use, akin to exposure therapy, to strip away their anxiety. It could also help people study, prep for tests by having it pose questions to them quizzing them, acting as a tutor. The only real criticism I can level at it is that in a virtual room full of people, an AI would still be just that. No matter eerily human-like it could get, it would still be fake. Granted, nobody is a real person on the internet, in the sense that everyone can and does hide part of themselves behind an avatar and username. Many actually act braver and with less consideration than they would in person, which doesn't translate well into the real-world, where, if they eventually find themselves in they'll be ill-prepared to interact with other people in person. That's already happening! So, it'll have its drawbacks. Maybe it'll draw people already addicted to cyberspace, with a virtual (re)presentation of themselves, further into it. Another series that utilizes this concept is a show called Gen:LOCK. Now, the first seasons is amazing, and it actually has a gender-fluid character whose reveal and presentation it handles very cleverly, with the technology of its world. Of course that's just a footnote. The plot itself and characterization is interesting.

Lex's smile at the beginning says it all. He's made it back home. 😄

Lex and Mark are the perfect AI’s to test this new technology with

It looks amazing in 2-D so the full 3-D immersive experience must feel incredible. I guess Lex's reaction gives a good clue to how mind blowing this must be.

Great episode its history in the making for sure it gave me chills when the interview started in the metaverse. This is the first thing that I have seen that has definitely crossed the uncanny valley.

When Mark said “I am real.” I almost believed it!

The most shocking part is Lex not wearing his iconic suit and tie

Within 10 seconds I am hooked. Omg. I'm an original Star Trek fan at 61, and this is, without a doubt, the best interview I've ever seen! Both my younger son, 24 and I are high functioning, and this would be great for us!!! 😁😁😁

This is absolutely incredible. If you can manage to make the creation of these avatars easy for an average consumer, I am 100% on board. I have a quest 1, quest 2, and hopes to get the 3rd too someday!!

Zuckerberg couldn't have wished for a better advertising campaign than the Lex Fridman podcast, this is next level

Wow! Mark somehow manages to look more real in the metaverse than real life.

Why is this video not available as a VR video?

What device are they using. And what programme. I bought a meta quest 3 today thinking thins was possible but I don't think it is.

Dear god this is amazing. 2 robots in a cyberworld, with copied real life faces pasted BACK onto them. Lex always bringing the awesome

As a 3D arist and dev, I'm blown away by the realtime body and facial mocap and the flawless retargetting. This is bonkers.

@lexfridman I was touched by your statement about the changing nature of reality and about consciousness (around 1:00:37). It's this kind of questions that come to my mind as well when wearing a VR headset. And anyone investigating the reality of nature should not miss out on Analytical Idealism that states that consciousness is ultimately fundamental (e.g. The Idea of the World by Bernardo Kastrup).

Great interview, Lex! You both made some great points, very thought provoking.

Everyone laughed at the Metaverse when Mark first showed it off. This is next level.

This interview belongs to the history books.

If at all possible, how do you become a great conversationalist like Mark? I can listen to him talk all day long

Imagine graduating highschool and then getting a degree just to sit in a meeting with Bob, the AI. 😂😂😂

Zuckerberg has more emotional range in the Metaverse than in the real world

This is insane. It’s not a video feed. It’s a digital stream of your real-time expressions projected onto static facial scans. Wild stuff.

I really think that this could be developed in a really helpful and healthy way. I instantly just had 3 ideas: 1) put magnetic shielding to stop electromagnetic waves from going through the eyes or brain by redirecting it. 2) Make the glasses cause your eyes to focus on objects far away so it tricks the brain and eyes into relaxing eye muscles periodically because we are designed to look closer and then suddenly far away, naturally. 3) Make a tall hologram machine using gas or smoke or steam in a 3d glass container so you can see it 5ft away from you on your couch. I have an inventor mindset to help people but I need tutoring and help learning math, electronics, &programming. Can someone mentor me for dreams of helping people and being happy with family and wealthy?

Even though being in VR is something you have to experience in person, ive got to say that, this is probably as awesome as a 2D representation of talking with avatars in VR can be. Its incredible!

This is the first time in recorded history that Lex has ever kept eye contact

This should’ve been captured as 3D video so people could sit in the same room and follow the conversation in VR. How cool would that be!

I have a Quest Pro, what app are you guys using to dot this?

going outside is old school now

Feels like this podcast will become a real landmark moment.

This interview may have changed my mind on the Metaverse. This is pretty awesome.

That technology is pretty crazy. I couldn’t tell it was an avatar at first.

God, Lex is a genius for bringing this to light. A true gem to the world. Mark looks more human through his avatar than through his real face. 😅

Can't wait to avoid eye contact in the Metaverse! Probably gonna be "offline" to avoid social interaction. What a time to be alive!

Marc actually looks way more human than normal in the metaverse

This is awesome. If the lighting in the 2 person view cast shadows in the same direction on both of your faces the immersion would be vastly improved.

We miss you Lex! Hoping you come back to podcast soon! ✌🏼♥️

definitely saving lots of bandwidth on transmitting facial expressions with this pair 😂

It's weird to see lex and mark more emotive than they usually are.

Seeing them together I never thought anyone could be less animated than Mark Zuckerberg

Given all the recent hype reviews of Apple Vision, you have to admit that the quality of these face renderings are impressive

Was half expecting Mark to drop the bombshell at the end that Lex had indeed been speaking to the AI Zuckerberg the whole time. That would’ve been badass

Honestly for once I'm actually impressed, this is incredible

I'm 51. I joined Facebook in 2009, and I've never seen, or heard, Mark Zuckerberg before, except a video of him speaking to Congress (I'm a Kiwi / NZ in NZ). I appreciate Mark doing this interview.

The delivery on this promise was worth the wait. Damn, Mark!

I just imagine using this as a physics tutor, you can create a surrounding area with objects, which have physically accurate interactions, and demonstrate anything while being face to face with your student, regardless of the distance between you. Absolutely amazing.

I love how Mark understands people think his expression is monotone

Hey I’m a virtual piano teacher and I’ve been waiting for a better way to demonstrate piano in my zoom lessons ; there is a delay still so when I try to clap to help keep my students to play to the beat , it doesn’t work bc there is a slight delay

Pretty unreal how fast things are moving.

Lex: “and it doesn’t feel awkward to be really close to you” Zuck: “no it does…”

Lex *almost crying and close to getting a cardiac arrest*: "This really blew my mind. One of the most incredible experiences of my life, so thank you for giving that to me" Mark *trying to make up a virtual smile*: "Glad that you got to check it out. It's always fun to talk"

WOW. @Lex Fridman avatar is shockingly accurate. I've binged on his pod episodes enough, it was immediately apparent. 💯

Hi there, May I know how we can use or buy this kind of technology? Is there in the market these VR glasses already?

The tech in 10 years is gonna be absurd. This is genuinely incredible, and frightening

When Lex was looking at Mark and started describing how the imperfections like freckles and variations in colour are amazing and Mark, looking at Lex replied with "yeah- wrinkles, facial asymmetry"

Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly

Who did the intro? It’s awesome! Did meta put that together for him?

Have to admit.. this is pretty freakin awesome. I can totaly picture everybody communicating like this on a daily basis.

Mark looks more realistic in the Metaverse than he does in real life.

Amazing, would love to try. Really helps me imagine how this is going to go. Have had Vive, Quest 2 for a few years. Just waiting for a quest 3. Looking forward to see how this goes.

This is one of the dopest things I’ve ever seen! I’m huge into technology and this makes me so excited! Good job, Mark & team 👏🏼

Feel like I’m watching Mark go from a billionaire to a trillionaire

Lex is reading my mind on what questions to ask.

This really looks amazing, and beyond uncanny valley. The black background also accentuates the subtleties of the VR.

My engineering side is thrilled, but my philosophical side is in despair

This is wild! This is the future I don't know if I should be excited or be very afraid. As someone who prefers a text to a phone call, a zoom to an in person meeting, a deep an meaningful email exchange to a long in person lunch, I love this. I also know as humans we need something more or we will evolve (or maybe de evolve) into beings that are not longer "human".

Lex’s reaction to this VR atmosphere is akin to our grandparents looking blown away by the first time they saw a real computer

They should have recorded this as something that we could experience in the meta verse. I think it'd be dope to be able to basically be sitting there with them

Zuck is a genius, everyone was doubting meta but this is the future

I just imagine going to a sports event from my living room. Having virtual seats and seeing and talking to real fans nearby

Would love to see an interview with Leslie Lamport - one of the best thinkers in Computer Science history

I had no idea the 3D was this advanced, this is actually insane.

Amazing to see two actual AI's talking to each other in human form

well this puts the Apple pro personas to shame hahahaha

Love your casts Lex, TY for bringing people together, both of you. My opinion of you Mark, has completely changed since seeing you on Lex's pods. Thanks for addressing your expressiveness. Now I understand your humanity and lack-of-being-robot. Sick BJJ skills bros! Id love to train with either of you on the mats, OS!

Mark and Lex are looking more and more lifelike. Great work, engineering team!

Stunning turnaround of Metaverse by Mark. This actually has potential.

glad we got the 2 most expressive people in the world to demonstrate this technology

Was this done with the quests stand alone hardware or with help of a pc wirelessly?

I have to be honest, this is the first time in all those metaverse bullshit years that I am actually 'wow...this might actually be good'

I think it would be fantastic to watch a podcast or interview content like this actually in VR, as if youre watching a live on stage interview, or being a third person at the table.

This is historic. Speaks volumes that this historic moment happened on RU-vid rather than legacy media

Using this technology to communicate with a dead loved ones avatar would be amazing.

This is incredible. How has the Metaverse come this far in such a short time? It feels like yesterday we were memeing about the cartoon avatars. Simply amazing.