Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. Transcript: lexfridman.com/sam-altman-2-transcript 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Cloaked: cloaked.com/lex and use code LexPod to get 25% off - Shopify: shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial - BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/lexpod to get 3 months free 1:05 - OpenAI board saga 18:31 - Ilya Sutskever 24:40 - Elon Musk lawsuit 34:32 - Sora 44:23 - GPT-4 55:32 - Memory & privacy 1:02:36 - Q* 1:06:12 - GPT-5 1:09:27 - $7 trillion of compute 1:17:35 - Google and Gemini 1:28:40 - Leap to GPT-5 1:32:24 - AGI 1:50:57 - Aliens
The fact that these two still think consciousness isn’t something unique to life is laughable! You will never build general intelligence! You don’t even know what consciousness is!
The fact that these two still think consciousness isn’t something unique to life is laughable! You will never build general intelligence! You don’t even know what consciousness is!
Do you think that in 2035 with the advent of AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) and ASI (Super Artificial Intelligence) they will introduce universal basic income!? a subsidy!? there will be free will!? an era of abundance will begin!? the intellectual and motor capabilities of robots have already surpassed the average human and before 2035 there is talk of them surpassing those of any human and then again those of any human combined! regarding both body and mind! answer me please...
Let's take everything with a grain of salt until this goes through the court and all records are public. "Regurgitate me the propaganda narrative you came up with to save face while employees rallied behind you so they could get more than a $2 billion payout from a not-for-profit [and let's avoid speaking of your sister's many years of allegations of you sexually assaulting her for years as a child - where you seem desperate to attempt to maintain the head position of an organization that can AI generate realistic CSAM]."
"Tell me how Blackrock totally didn't install stooges on your board of executives in order to secure powerful AI for their sentient killbots that will eventually come for us all"
@@jackxiao8140 I agree, he's withholding information but its obvious he doesn't want/is allowed to say certain things, but the subjects he does touch on he's pretty insightful and informative.
Dead-on. Him talking about how "painful" the board situation was for 20 min was hilarious. "But there was a lot of love too" It's like those amateurish horror stories on reddit about Skinwalkers imitating humans.
@@esyjournalhe can say a lot, doesn’t mean it has substance. He said in a lot of words just in the beginning “AI/AGI is going to have a power struggle” without elaborating on it. Look more into Sam and the company lol.
Feels like he’s portraying a humble, sensitive persona when he may actually be an egomaniac with unbelievable power at his disposal. Didn’t learn much from this interview, but still engaging and important stuff watching Altman’s communication strategies.
Yes! All I took from the entire board saga in the end: I was hopeful/positive for OpenAI before, now I'm scared and get a nefarious vibe I really don't like...
I think we may have to admit that we all learn far more from uncomfortable uncertainties than the pleasant echo chambers we understandably tend to like. Not to be unkind or to root for drama but I'm certainly curious about the giant reaction this guy's uneasiness generated.... Might be something worth taking a look at there... Examination of all parties (we viewers/commenters included) illuminates a lot about psychology and sociology. 😅
He clearly said we have great people working on it, and there's a big group of very smart AI researchers, and I'm actually very happy that we're doing that, because we need to think more about these things, and we don't want to overestimate the risks, and moving towards the future, we still have much more to take care of.
Sam isnt really that deep, he just happens to lead a top AI company. Discussions about other civilizations and simulations are always interesting but he was just dead quiet there. Elon and Andrej really answered those questions quite well with deep thought
It felt a lot that he can't say to much or don't want. Both about technical stuff and the drama. More about the vision of the future may have been easier to talk about.
In the clip (57 Min) he totally avoided the question of tranparency and data privacy of user and started talking about his firing and tried to appeal emotionally. This guy is shrewd. how long is AWM19V opened to us?
1:09:22 “You're not the man you used to be, Sam." "Very different job now than what I used to have." I watched this part so many times and it still sends chills down my back. I listened to the 2 podcasts with Sam so many times and examined them in detail. In the first podcast, Sam's stance was "Look at the amount of pettiness among the "experts" when we started, now look where we are. We are going fast and going strong. Great accomplishments, huge milestones, bright future ahead." He was the guy defying all odds and proving everyone wrong by making something remarkable. The future was unknown, and in a dark cave, there was light. Now things have completely changed. By moving towards that light it becomes clear that AGI is not an IF but WHEN, and as things move forward at exponential speeds, we are racing toward that light we see, kicking and pulling on the people around us, and what's waiting for us at the destination? Would we run off a cliff without being able to stop? The level of certainty in his face and voice just 11 months ago that OpenAI would either make AGI or "not make AGI but still make humans super great", and the level of uncertainty we see today that "AGIs are coming any second and the world is not ready for it", is insane.
What was remarkable between then and now to me was his wisdom; his going on record to say essentially he'd at least hope to set aside his own need/desire for power in exchange for saftely. How fortuante for the world that someone like him is at the helm. I love Elon but its rather obvious that we cannot trust him with irreversible power buttons.
Thank you for pointing out the timestamp I rewatched it several times. Got chills as well Really make you think how much one can be changed by many. It'll be an interesting movie to watch in 10 years
@@VejmR I take it to mean more certain it's on the horizon, less certain the uses will be worth the risk. I suspect Sam has a much better understanding of how even people he would have innately trusted can be swayed by the stress of power. That doesn't extrapolate optimistically to the development or potential uses of a tool as powerful as AGI.
@@VejmR To put it simply, he has become certain that AGI will be here, most likely very soon, and now the work has changed from "Can we maybe create AGI?" to "What do we do with AGI to not ruin the world." It's the same with nukes. "How do we build a nuke?" is a scientific problem. He was Oppenheimer. After nukes were made it becomes a political game: "How do we leverage our nukes to gain advantage in world politics?" His identity is shifting or has already shifted from being a research scientist to a politician. That's my understanding of this line he said. Edit: I can't spell. Removed an extra "s".
After scrolling through quite a few comments I finally found this thread. I'm surprised more people aren't pointing this out. Yes, Altman gives CEO answers, but also... He's learned a "love" vibe too well, and I feel like he's using manipulative tactics constantly on top of that. I don't quite trust him. There are a couple short moments that I think are real, but there are more moments where it's hard to tell if he's honest at all... Certainly he reframes each question slightly to avoid much true detail...
When he said "I love Ilya" you could just sense that deep down he probably feels the exact opposite about him. People like Sam Altman are really really dangerous.
I love Lex poked from every angle trying to get Sam to talk about about the openAI drama, and all responded with deplomatic answers or redirections. But then he asked how Sam felt, his personal feeling through this whole drama, finally it cracked.
Poked every angle ? He plays both sides while always choosing power over his feelings . Lex doesn’t have his own thoughts and sam isn’t here to play friends anymore
@@kaynewest6167 I think Lex does indeed have his own thoughts and Sam has a lot of focus on him worldwide so he has to be diplomatic and reserved in every answer he gives, anything he says can cause significant issues or fears at least, so he has to be reserved
pointless interview and you can tell Lex knows it with his sarcastic jokes late on. Altman answers in CEO form. There was some better responses late on but the first hour of the interview was just a waste of time.
he was a pure soul when he started, and now the corporation has corrupted his soul, his mouth is tied. He spoke his heart , and served the world. Now he speaks his mind, and serves the devil. Probably oversimlifed and overstated. He is trying to save his soul. But the internal struggle is impossibly hard. @@imaspacecreature
@@pushkarbaral4064So that's what the liberal mantra "right not to be offended" gets you. Everyone afraid to say anything about anything, so that fragile minds don't get upset.
Lex you have so transcended any interview of Altmann and any interview about AI. You patiently, empatheticly asked and then let him search internally for his answers, his thinking - good or bad. Thank you sir.
He wasn't very assertive with Netanyahu - I feel like his credibility in my eyes definitely took a hit with that choice of interview, he could have really asked some big questions but dropped the ball completely
My AI Agent. So his endgame becomes clear. I understand social phobias and fear of deep connection but he just revealed that he wants or is motivated by wanting a personal AI agent that will know literally everything about him and accept and help him - a feeling he wants from people in his life but has not had. This is a frightening motive for creating a “system” that could hold so much harm to human society and life. I didn’t expect to be so alarmed when starting this podcast. Lex has been amazing in this interview.
I think it's just his generation. Uninspired, boring and just out there fulfilling the captain of industries dream. Automating economic output at all costs. Nothing really exciting or imaginative about it. Maybe the machine will produce something exciting... almost like a script being followed.
Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Jensen Huang and Bill Gates in one room with Lex hosting the discussion in a round table discussion would be insane and totally relevant. This would be the ultimate podcast.
In the clip (57 Min) he totally avoided the question of tranparency and data privacy of user and started talking about his firing and tried to appeal emotionally. This guy is shrewd.
This was a huge red flag to me. Not only was it an issue I wanted to hear discussed (its huge in the public space right now) but the way he shifted the attention to his personal pain? It was the exact wrong moment to invite empathy. Nope! Sorry Sam burn out isn’t a get out of jail free answer to ethical concerns.
While I'd love to hear from him, you generally have to hear one side of the saga before you can hear both sides. And so far, we've heard no sides, just some emotional responses to it.
On the cusp of AGI, the doorsteps to absolute power stands Sa-ah-ah-am. Seriously though, we are really going to let this vocal fry communicating robot take over the world?
Most hilarious part is Sam *somberly* recalling when Elon tweeted a silver medal at Jeff Bezos after surpassing him as the richest person in the world 🤣
The fact that he feels justified because his paid mercenaries supported him is all I need to know. Trusting private companies to race towards AGI is the biggest joke I have heard in my entire life.
@@ikotsus2448 Sounds good. Im just too black pilled to believe any higher ups actually care about humanity. The covid craziness definitely opened my eyes to what people will do to control others
@@MrSeanman30You mean like the question what data types they store? Or when if a guy walks across the room with an iPhone, does Google see that? Oh wait, that was Sundar. yeah, i'd be as confused as they were.
At least we got a good Lex interview before he handed the world unwittingly to the demon he has no idea exist ruling the world. Sad dystopia he is rushing us off to as Bill Gates 2.0, surprising Altman sees no issues with Bills insane control of humanity, down to owning patent rights for organic seeds.
Lex is a force of nature. Not only does he get the most influential guests but it also seems like the guests seek him out and it is just as important for them to be on with Lex. Amazing journey, congratulations Lex, you are awesome!
Of course, after all Lex does not ask any difficult or important questions. The guests basically promote themselves, and I also feel Lex prepared very poorly for this interview. No in-detail questions, just layups and easy way outs...not a satisfying and value added experience. I learned nothing new that I did not already know.
@@bbmatfreddy He's not a reporter. His aim isn't to dig up dirt on his guest, it's to let them speak and give insights into their own knowledge/wisdom. If you think his questions were too surface level, then that's a valid argument.
@@Astra2 he takes on the function as investigative journalist. In that he does a pretty poor job. Not sure what else his purpose in such interview would be. Altman could as well have just used a Sora bot to ask easy questions that make him come out on top of everything. For example, why did Lex not press harder on the opensource issue. Letting Altman simply say "I don't even know what this lawsuit is about" is as disingenuous and dishonest as it gets. OpenAI not being open at all. Letting tons of outsiders contribute for free, for Elon to invest millions, and then shutting the whole thing down and distributing unheard sums to friends and family, aka employees. Really? Lex had nothing to ask about that? Or the issue of Sora being trained on unlicensed content. Whatever one's position on this may be, it's an important issue worth many upcoming lawsuits. I stand by my stance, one of Lex's worst conversations and interviews and a great chance wasted to get to the bottom of many very important topics.
Well. He runs the hottest shiet in the tech industry. There's big money from big players involved.. i'd be veeeery careful too sitting at the top of a 100 billion $ company 😂. You too
- Are you training Sora on other peoples' IP? - I think people who created valuable content should be compensated - ok, thank you for answering This is what this conversation looks like in a short form. Thank you Lex, very insightful
@@doyourownresearch7297say that to me when your face is being used for "bank robbing attempt 176". Allowing it to use your most private data in something that can so actively harm you is a terrible precedent. You are inviting the most powerful digital panopticon.
Yawn. These talks where the guest is political and performing are so boring. This guy's true opinions on any question regarding his company is locked behind 10,000 NDAs. He can't give anything away, and will only say things that will increase funding and sales.
So what questions would you want to ask? With some patience they both reveal some interesting stuff about the projects. Yes Microsoft is paying for a lot of compute, but as they discussed it’s about balance of power. Again what questions are you looking for?
This conversation, besides Sam’s comments on the board movements, largely mimic that which took place last year. I think these models have exceeded Sam’s technical depth. And I think the closed source, for profit business plan, Open AI has adapted to prevents lower level personnel from speaking to the challenges they are dealing with day to day, that the greater community might enjoy and derive real value from. This felt so high level that I could conceive it being synthetically generated.
Well said. A lot of comments noting they don't trust Sam/get bad "vibes" from him. Really all I'm picking up on are very calculated, non-inflammatory responses amounting to very little.
This is exactly how I felt. Initially I felt like Lex was trying to be more technical but the guy sounded like a software salesman who doesn’t want to get deeper. Had to google his background again cause I was very surprised
@@DeadRyGuy and to a certain extent you have to expect corporate speak from a guy in his position. Because the valuation correlates with his sentiments. But this product category is far more nuanced, if I was a shareholder I’d expect a lot more technical depth.
@@Chibabachacho Lex has interviewed Open AI’s real CTO Ilya Sutskever, albeit years ago, and years before they even had a product. I have no idea who this Mira Murati is claiming to be CTO but in interviews she’s somehow more inept than Sam. I believe she’s likely a token figurehead. The interview with Ilya was adequately technical, but he’s been radio silent since, almost as if he’s being intentionally silenced. I can’t make sense of much of this company, but as someone in the space, I am really curious to see how this plays out for them.
Evening lads, well, i've watched this twice now...with friends and family. Slightly concerned, as one should be, but this is indeed the world we live in. Thank you Lex for the platforme.🇫🇷🥂
I have bad vibes about Sam. Just very calculated about certain questions, I smell some dishonesty. Also seems he calls all the shots, is above the board and chairman.
@MacroAccwhen altman got kicked out by the board, ilya sutskever who was a founding member and is the one driving most of the technical aspects of openai voted to kick altman out. The reason for that is unknown, which is what caused the meme. No one knows what happened at openai and what caused them to kick altman out, hence “what did ilya see (to make him want to kick altman out)”
It's pretty probably that Ilya agreed to a gag clause in the new report. So it's pretty slimey for Sam to say ask him. Dude you made him agree to a gag order, he can't answer publically.
The Q-star thing is really interesting here. The fact that OpenAI is so quiet about it says a lot about it as Lex pointed out, I think that Q-star is indeed a new form of fine-tuning of GPT whose performance is so astounding that even OpenAI can not explain.
Sam Altman is the ChatGPT we all love: lacks depth in his answers, responds slowly, avoids explicit wording that would pose even a nuance risk, and performs red herrings by any means to get away from answering The questions. (This comment was supported by ChatGPT.)
@thebestlutz - it sounds like you are referring to many points of disconnect, which probably would be hard to list them all. if you were to choose just one, the most prominent or major point of disconnect, what would it be? i am very curious because i did not detect any, and that makes me wonder if i myself am disconnected too and somehow i dont know it lol so i hope very much that you will at least list one and hopefully many :p
I mean OpenAI delivered, and you can use it for free, what did he take from you? GPT4 is insane, have you not used any of the AI stuff yet? I mean Sam can seem a little deflective but the AI speaks for itself, so what point are you really making?
@@benjaminkemper5876 Because all of it is not AI, it's ML. AI = ML but ML != AI. It's deliberate false advertising, like vegan meat. Technically even ML e.g. "Machine Learning" is false advertising since it's not really "learning".
You really believe that? He rarely answers in a straight manner. Like when he said it was going to be a total non-profit, and now it has a small percentage of non-profit. How about when Lex asked about security and Altman jumped in with a non sequitur and never answered that question either. Re-watch the interview and hear the politician in it.
1:06:30 "what's the way we release this thing", makes me think he refers to making Sam give honest first hand answers. I adore the dynamic that's happening. It really is about getting Sam to open up. But of course, it's hard.
When Lex asked if Ilya was being held in a secret bunker and Sam seriously replied 'no' rather than taking it as the joke it was it was is pretty telling. Illya is obviously not in a bunker lol, but the fact that Sam took the accusation seriously, and didn't actually say what Ilya was up to seems to indicate there is some underlying truth.
*Proceeds to release ChatGPT in 2022* *Announces a state of the art video generation with SORA that blows the competition away* Yeah don't get me wrong, I think those are nice to raise awareness but they are not doing great in that department lol
Dude, Lex absolutely killed it on this interview! Mixing up funny and calming questions with the hard ones and memeing just the right ammount to make Sam feel better.
One advice from drop out student. Don't waste that time. If you have opportunity to study what you like then study hard. Easy to say.... I know... but DO IT! Focus on what is important. I believe in you :)
He totally changed the subject when the privacy and data issue came up. Like why won't tech CEO's just admit that using your data is the core part of their business model. @57:34
@@allanshpeley4284 But listen to Lex's rebuttle to his response, which is then followed swiftly be a change in subject.. The query isn't about "user choice", it's about total transparency of what "user choice" means, and what exactly companies are doing with your data outside of just improving your user experience / tailored advertizing..
Sam keeps smiling as he speaks about the board that fired him and Elon. You can clearly see that he has gained lots of confidence and believes he's invincible to them at this stage
You guys are nerds, no one was "spicy" at all in this interview lol he just seems to be so in love with these two that anything is interesting to him. @@seenochasm7101
@@thelonewrangler1008 it's like that deep rasp in the back of the throat kinda like if you have been sick or start to lose your voice or how you sound if you are exceedingly tired or just woke up.
Elon is annoying as hell and needs to be checked. People need to stop worshipping that guy just like they worshipped Jobs. He says the most idiotic things and treats his own workers like trash.
@@4l3dx nah but when you throw all that money at a company and they completely change their ethics and goalposts then yeah, they deserve the lawsuits coming there way.
Lex, you are providing me with such high quality and unbiased interviews with so many of the most important people in the world. I am grateful! Not sure how you get these guests but it must have something to do with you being so honest, selfless, curious and kind. If I could have only one RU-vid channel, it would be yours.
getting this interview is a home run for not just you, but content creators in general. Interview exclusives like this are really the mark of a paradigm shift.
One of the most inspiring and challenging podcasts I've ever listened to. There's a lot to digest, I'll have to re-watch it when I can give my full attention. I've been reading Sci-fi since I was in grade 7, lots of Asimov, Wyndham and Pournelle and Niven. It's interesting that a lot of what was in my childhood just considered flights of fantasy is now becoming fact.
