megadeth22885 I still keep my 686. Sold the 624 as I found myself too often pulling cartridges out of it to put in my DE. I think it's a matter of all the trigger snobs out there. I got training on a standard issue M16 and mine was after the previous grunt over-cleaned the coatings away so the trigger was grinding. Still, no big deal...
Eralen00 it’s a good habit to have. I have proper trigger discipline when using an electric drill lmfao. A good firearm owner and user’s good habits subconsciously follow them into every part of their life.
I know, you can't be too safe when it comes to guns, it just gave me a chuckle. I know there were some guns from the civil war found loaded, and some of them accidentally/negligently discharged for that matter.
Heh. its not like you are needing to worry about actually SHOOTING it. Proprietary cartridges for a weapon with 80 examples in 4 different calibers? Yeah, those will never be fired again.
Who said BF games ever had to stick to common weapons? They have rare or even unused weapons like the AN-94 or AEK-971 available for use in BF4, and they even had a weapon that was completely fake. Rare guns is what BF is about.
To add insult to injury, it actually ejected spent cartridges backwards, straight to the shooters' face, so he would get more than just a broken wrist. Sir Hugh was clearly inspired by field artillery when he designed this piece, too bad he didn't think of adding a hydraulic recoil buffer of some sort.
Thanks to you I was able to succesfully use a MARS pistol in a French gunshop (it had a lot of surface rust but nothing to severe). The mechanism is really stiff but I managed to try to see the disconnector in action with the "keep the trigger pulled" thing. Even the seller wasn't aware of that feature. You earned my Patreon sub . I wanted to do it since I'm following your wonderful channel for now a year or two but I was always pushing it to tomorrow.
@@kvproductions2581 The shop owner actually told me that if I was able to find ammo for it that we could go test the gun. Unfortunately I never found any kind of affordable ammo for it.
Fun story, several months ago I was part of a small team making a mod for the indie game RimWorld. I had the job of writing descriptions for all the new weapons the mod added. One of the guns in the mod was the Mars Pistol, which I had never heard of before, so I googled the name to research it and found this video. I've been in love with your channel ever since, I'm learning new stuff every day. Thanks heaps for making these videos!
The pistol operates strangely like a cannon (howitzer) with a feed mechanism. The grabbers invoke images of the Kriss. I wonder if this pistol served as any inspiration.
@@zoeyuroboros5739 no.... It's not. Look up the definition of steam punk. It is a style that references old technology. Old technology is not trying to be steam punk. It can't use steam punk references as by definition it was designed long before steam punk was created.
Gotta say, the slide coming back and revealing every single thing inside the gun, and the rear of the slide looking like it's a good 10 cm out of the gun is crazy
rewtuser exactly what I was thinking since models of the Luger P08 and Mauser C96 had carbine variants as well and they were designed/manufactured in the same era
I’ve always had a fondness for the Mars, even though I never knew all that much about it. This video just endears the Mars to me even more. Lots of larger-caliber handguns are referred to as “hand cannons”, but the Mars is the only one I know of that recoils like an actual artillery piece. Much like the cartridge LeMat revolver or the 37mm Hotchkiss rotary cannon you showed recently, I would consider the Mars to be a “Rule of Cool” weapon; the kind of weapon where it’s just so inherently weird/unique that any questions of obsolescence or impracticality are rendered moot. Excellent video, thanks very much for shedding some light on such a cool and little-known weapon!
hi, Ian. Those are amazing pistols. I wonder if they could have been steam powered? Or if using a few more brass fittings would have increased reliability? It is a pity that using a red dot sighting system seems to be out of the question. A ballistic computer would probably not be of any use either. The only customer for these pistols I can think of would be Robo-Cop. That pairing would definitely be one made in heaven. Anyway, thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
"Aha! I follow your line of thinking. "Did he fire eight shots or only seven?" I must confess, that during all this excitement, I have somewhat lost track myself. But as this is a Gabbet-Fairfax Webley-Mars, quite the most potent pistol in the world and would blast your cranium clean from your shoulders, it behooves you to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do you Sir, you utter cad?"
I would like to say that this the first time I saw Gun Jesus. I was a freshman, interested in engineering, only slightly educated in guns. So, when I saw an article about an early auto-loader, I was interested, to say the least. The engineering and complexity astounded me. I was hooked instantly, and this channel has taught me so much. Even as a novice shooter (with more talent than skill) I understand how guns work better than those trying to teach me. I guess this is a thank you to Ian. Thank you, kindly
Forgotten Weapons Kinda want someone to handmake reproductions of this handgun. I did ask Copper Custom in Valparaiso, Indiana if they have apprenticeships available, and they might have it as a summer opportunity.
I think it's really interesting how the bullet feed delay mechanism is used in the Battlefield 1 version of the gun. The gun in the game is powerful, but it's balanced by it's slower rate of fire. Very cool gun!
What an amazing piece, and so far ahead of it's time. The rotating bolt. The detachable box magazine. The push button mag release (rather than heel release). Whether it was a commercial success or not, this was far ahead of it's time.
To the winner of the auction of these guns: 1. Get some ammo for these suckers. 2. Bring it to Ian. 3. Let Ian shoot the gun and do some slow motion of it. 4. ?????? 5. Profit!
It'd probably be cheaper to buy the machinery needed and easier make your own brass than to find someone willing to sell to a price you can afford without selling your car, house, mom and grandma.
My dad has one (had one he's been gone since 1988) and he had lots of ammo for it, he emphasized the fact that the right ammo was most important to working correctly although we did shoot American ammo through the gun and I only remember it functioning perfectly. Loud, very powerful and would hurt my hand afterwards! Loved shooting it.
I think it's a pretty cool concept. It adds more fear in the gameplay.. Especially when you realize that these where once real weapons. I think it adds a lot to the fear of the unknown that many soldiers at the time had
But if you check out some other FF videos you see there were many pre-WW1 semi-auto pistols that used proprietary cartridges. In the Austro-Hungarian army in WW1 they used about a half dozen different pistols and they each had their own different cartridge.
The very first semiautomatic pistol was a whopping 7 years before this came out... only revolver and long gun cartridges were established, and the revolver cartridges weren't really suited for any sort of self-loader. If you had a self-loading pistol in 1897, *all* cartridges were proprietary. Every hear the term '.32 ACP' or '.45 ACP'? Automatic Colt Pistol. Those were proprietary designs too.
Wenk Hsueh Nearly every gun at the time that was being developed used proprietary cartidges. It was actually smart for the company, if the gun was chosen by a military to be produced, they'd have to buy all the ammo from them as well, as opposed to say, buying the ammo from a competing company.
The Boberg pistol has a "reverse" feeding system which looks amazingly similar to the Mars action. Can't help but think that the Mars design managed to have an influence on firearms design over a century later. In size and power the Mars seems to be the spiritual antecedent of the Wildey and Desert Eagle pistols and the late lamented Auto Mag .
Similar looks, mechanics, yet better caliber margins, reportedly the Mars had either a 10 or 8[or 9] round capacity depending on the calibers, .45 Mars Long and .45 Mars Short with the 8[or 9] round mags, and the 8.5mm Mars and 9mm Mars with the 10 round mags.
Jayton Hawkins the gun is quite literally the best definition of a gun I can ever think of. You want something that goes bang? This does more than a bang could ever do, it'll get your shoulder sore and you wouldn't even be using a stock Such a pretty gun imo
The profile of the barrel and the bolt unlocking handle reminds me of artillery. How was the bolt unlocked? I notice there's a little arm that acts on a little nub attached to the bolt, rotating and unlocking it, but what moves the arm itself?
I was kinda curious about that, and I don't know much about British culture but I'm guessing the fact that he was a Sir indicated that he didn't really need the gun to sell well and he was content to just show off his 1900's era Desert Eagle at the military trials, even if he knew it wasn't what they were looking for. He knew it would be appreciated eventually, like when it sold for $75K.
Anyone else wounded if dice just watched all of Ian's video to find any cool looking guns that existed around the time of ww1 to put into battlefield 1
I would not be shocked if they did the guy that runs the great war channel about ww1 was consulted for person and day to day stuff of the people of the time so the game would be more accurate
I really, really wish we could record one of these firing... The recoil and muzzle flash are said to be so great, it's sad to think we won't be able to record and preserve that for everyone in the future to see
Really interesting video, I like the fact that it has a rotating bolt and the only other handgun which I can think of with a locking-lug rotating bolt is the Desert Eagle, which also fires comically overpowered rounds.
I see a great deal of elements that were later adopted by future successful designs. I see the Boberg feed mechanism (the Boberg is an excellent, well-thought out and executed design). I also see the bolt in the Desert Eagle. Then there's the Springfield 187 where the bolt remains fully to the rear. I am interested in your take on why... because it increased reliability. I can understand that it allows the feed mechanism to completely cycle and settle down. Thanks for the video.
Well, between cost, strangeness and small name recognition, that's just a few reasons. The sensitivity to ammo is also a dealbreaker for a lot of people. The main problem is this: the gun community is heavily skewed conservative. As a result, new designs are viewed with suspicion (unless they are common sense changes like the P365 expanded capacity subcompact). The Boberg design aimed to give the consumer a longer barrel in a shorter package, and achieved that aim, but it came at a steep cost, and with the drawback of no lockback at the end of a magazine, and serious potential for lockup problems if there is a malfunction. All told, it's a fascinating design, but the need to extract a few more feet per second velocity out of a given length gun was probably never enough to justify such a high cost, or the other downsides of the design. That's my take. I love weird designs though, so if I ever get a chance to own one at a decent price, I'll take it. This was one man's obsession, and he apparently lost his marriage over it, and ultimately had to sell the company to Bond arms. I guess he should be commended for getting as far as he got and actually selling the assets he had (who knows if he made a profit though or just broke even). Anyway, the world is full of obsessive-creative types, and only a small percentage of them become successful. Arne Boberg wasn't one of them. I think the lesson is this; we've reached a point in history where most of the low-hanging fruit in the world of design and engineering have been done already. At this point it takes teams of very creative people years to advance science and technology. Arne was operating on an outdated model for creativity, and it bit him in the ass.
The Triggerati Sorry for late reply mate was a bit busy lately Yeah I guess that holds up, I do wonder if maybe a tapered cartridge like 357 sig or 40 S&W would be a better choice for the ammo sensitivity issues and in that those cartridges are more velocity based, but if this design is inherently more expensive and prone to lockup then I can't imagine the boberg being a service gun I guess it just got me thinking because it seems that compact rifles are all the rage nowadays with pistol braces on 9 inch AR pistols and whatnot, but the 5.56 wasn't really designed for that, so wouldn't the bullpup rifle be an obvious choice? that you need a manuevarable rifle for urban fighting, but need an adequate barrel length? I guess it just seems like a nice choice since people rarely carry beretta 92s or hi points if they have the choice not to, so something with a fighting pistol length barrel that you can carry everyday seems like a good place to market, though it's not an idea you'd wanna make from just a small company I bet, do you think the concept of a bullpup pistol just won't take off in general?
OMG you were NOT kidding when you said these were complicated. But are you not allowed to try these guns with snapcaps? I'm sorry if that's a stupid question.
KrisHimself Well.. If you were listening...They all fire proprietary calibers which never entered mass production.. Bottom line - even if you could find original ammo for them.. they would be really rare and expensive
Georgi Karakolev So, not even handloading, you'd have to manually machine out the brass as well. Assuming detailed description of the ammunition still exists.
If you turned pieces would maybe made out of some kind of metal. Just imagine this rare gun to become damaged during a demo with a too stiff metal dummy round that causes an malfunction. If anyone should make a dummyround for these, it should be made out of softer material than the gun's components.
Whoa, those are crazy complex.. Fascinating to look at, but they must have been a nightmare to actually use. What was the rationale behind such complex weapons? Certainly everybody with a mind that could design such pistols, must also realize that there's no way they could compete with the revolvers of the time?
I conceal carry a Phalanx CIWS 20mm in my minivan because its the closest thing to enough dakka that you can find in the 21st century that will fit in a turret platform.
The M1911 wasn't based on this pistol though. there's actually another gun that holds that title that came before the Mars Automatic made by browning, and had a much more striking resemblance to the M1911.
No wonder it was a failure. Watching you try and pull back the "slide", or whatever this gun has, was hilarious, but it seriously looked near impossible. I haven't a clue why the creator would refuse to change such an obviously flawed handgun. I say it deserves its fate. Let this be a "forgetten weapon". Regardless, I'd like to own one; for display purposes only, of course.
If I'm understanding you correctly... he was just dry cycling it to show how over-designed it was. You wouldn't be manually operating the action for every round, it's a recoil-operated pistol.
Kusagari Blues To play devil's advocate, this was something nice to have 100 years ago. Obviously there are better pistols today that are more reliable, prettier and better preforming, but I'd take this over a six gun revolver.aEs
Donald L. The M1911 is one-hundred and five years old since it's adoption, and is still used worldwide to this day. Civilians, special forces agencies, professional target shooters, many still chose the 1911 platform, or a variant of it, despite the availablity of other contemporary handguns made with the pinnacle of modern technology. So, the Mars gets no sympathy from me. A very powerful handgun had already been invented, and it was unequivocally better than the Mars in every way possible. Only four years after the commercial failure of the Mars, the 1911 would be mass-produced, silencing any real argument for owning a Gabbett-Fairfax design. Also, really? You'd take this piece of shit over a revolver? Are you crazy? For all of a six-shooter's draw-backs (capacity, reload speed, etc.), reliability typically isn't one of them. Even if I was around back then, I would never, under any circumstance, trust my life to a Mars Automatic Pistol. Like I said, you've got M1911s, M1900s, M1903 Pocket-Hamerless', Lugers, the C96 "Broomhandle", and a plethora of revolvers that had already been time-tested and proven their mettle (Dragoons anyone?). Hell, I'd take a C-93 Borchardt over one of these sad excuses for a handgun. Please, enlighten me on what you find desirable about these pistols, because I cannot think of anything for the life of me, with the exception of stopping power. Even then, the power of the .45 Mars Long cartridge doesn't mean squat dick if the gun won't be reliably chambered the round. "Your move, creep."
I love the engineering of all the mechanisms that are working together. Granted, they are a bit overcomplicated, but you can definitely see how it helped pave the way for modern automatic pistols.
+LittleMikey The term "automatic pistol" came into use to differential semi autos (aka self-loading pistols) from revolvers and other manually operated pistols. It can be confused with fully automatic, but those are generally called machine pistols.
because it was automatically self loading, self loader was the term some used, before the advent of sub machine guns seems the term auto pistol or semi auto somehow supplanted the term self loader
I am having a hard time finding footage of this weapon being fired. i mean i get they had issues, but does anyone have any footage of this being fired?
Forgotten Weapons Oh Wow. great video, man. but see i was making a story in which the main character uses a pair of mars automatics and I was researching how they worked. of course i suppose since it's fiction i could just watch how similar 19th century auto-pistols were fired
I'm working on an animated series based in a fantasy WW1 setting, the protagonist was handed over two of these, one regular the other long barrel, and over time, it starts breaking down the protagonists psyche because of how much devastation he deals with the guns, he is superbly strong enough to handle both, but over time it starts to be too much, any man no matter how good they are at fighting, has their weaknesses. If anything, I'd just wait until BF1 drops because that's when the gun will be featured in all its glory, so when that time comes I'm sure I'll be able to study deep and recreate this weapon as much as I can
I wouldn't use a DICE game as a basis for something if you're trying to be faithful to the original. They let you top up the magazine on the Gewehr 95 when it uses an en-bloc clip, they have the Mauser Selbtslader somehow working in a damn desert, they have a 'magnified leaf sight' and an MP-18 with a three round burst for 'variety'. I like the idea of your series, but I do hope you know that pistols aren't terribly good for fighting a war. In something like a trench raid they could be pretty good but in anything besides extreme close quarters fighting - granted, there was a good deal of that in WW1 - they were pretty much useless at hitting anything. Most men can't hit anything at a range of 25 meters, never mind beyond that. Furthermore, I think it's just going to be a reskinned Desert Eagle in BF1. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same sound files.
Thinking about it, one of the big US gun makers should grab this design and incorporate some sort of recoil reduction system (think gas brake like the Steyr GB) or a hydraulic piston to slow down the bolt at the rear, and use a powerful caliber like the FK Brno or even a 500 Magnum, it would sell plenty.
