Marss vs zackray - Singles: Losers Round 2 - Ultimate Summit 2 | ZSS vs R.O.B, Joker 

With a game like Smash, more people should change character, depending on the matchup. Some characters have better recovery, some are faster, some jump higher, some take more damage. And don’t tell me it’s hard. The reflexes and the strategy are 99% of what makes a good player. Learning a character just takes some practice. The inherent weaknesses of one character versus another are significant enough that even played flawlessly, someone’s “main” just isn’t good enough. At its core, Smash isn’t that complex. Hit button to attack. Push directional button to change the attack. Hit the other guy before he hits you. Don’t fall.

To be fair, one if those characters is Rob. One of the simplest characters in the game

@@chrisp2757 just say you've never played competitively or learned any character beyond Mac and Dorf.

The game is actually a port of smash 4's engine as proven by the code so when there was first gameplay without knowing the in depth mechanics, the general community thought it looked like a port. Though it is a port I completely agree that it's a major upgrade over smash 4

@@sterling_x9 its not a port. game plays completely different lol.

@@sorinnoctis652 the game does play completely different yes however it is the same engine and all existing characters from smash 4 were ported over then modified. It can be seen in Bowser Jr's code for example. It contains unused code for mechanics present in smash 4 that are not used in smash ultimate. When I use the term port I mean it in the literal sense, they ported the game to switch then began working on it from there. I don't mean the game is a carbon copy of smash 4, since it is quite different, but it is built from smash 4.

@@sterling_x9 yea but a lot of games do that. we dont call majora's mask a port do we? do we call CoD or any of the sports games ports? When people say "this game is a port" they literally mean like a mario kart 8 deluxe or a game that doesnt have an overhaul in the system and just added a few bells and whistles(like a definitive edition.). i mean even far cry reused the same map between 3 and 4(i forgot which two games.) the game was marketed as its own game(which is why sakurai even made fun of the idea that it was just smash 4 at e3 when he said "the end, just kidding")

Sorin Noctis omg calm down you’re wrong

There’s people that discredit all top players, and always people that defend them, it’s not just about zack and marrss.

What even is mastering Joker anyway? Is being as good as Leo mastering Joker? Or is beating top players with Joker having mastered the character? Because if it's the latter, then Zackray has mastered the character.

@@SeriousStriker mastering is to reach the maximum potential of your character. mkleo pretty much reached peak joker, i don't see much room for improvements (or other styles of play). zackray has still room to grow with his joker and will probably never be as good with him as leo

He is getting nerfed anyway, even Leo calls Joker OP...

This. Zack plays like fucking 5+ characters and makes them all look busted because he's that good.

You guys don't understand that the top players are pretty loyal to their characters. When Joker came out marss off rip on stream said he doen't like him. samsora and marss will never leave their mains, tweek probably doesn't like jokers play style. Leo was the only one because his sword characters have certain matchups that are bad so joker came at a perfect time for leo. all top players say joker is op or broken...cause he is

@@TheFreshkidd619 But Leo was already a top player before Joker, as was Zack. It just feels as if people who go "joker carry lol" are discrediting already great players. Zack and Leo both use alts that prior to them playing those characters people thought were ass. Look at how many times Leo used Marth during Summit, a character who only even works if you're playing incredibly precisely.

@@TinyPrinceGames I don't think joker carries per se like definetly not leo but arsene definitely saved zack but he's elite himself I dont think its that cut and dry cause like zss joker is hard to master but arsene makes joker easier to play than zss and I think that match shows that a bit but zackray is definitely a top player

Talking very fast and over top of people doesn't make great commentary

i actually cant watch this set because esam is so annoying

@@TheDoor616 What's the deal with people hating on ESAM so much?

@@ecota8150 Do you still need an answer.

Arsene too strong.

Lmao you're proud of being in elite smash cause you still cant top 8 your local weekly's

Online is garbage enough to not actually matter

Online is virtually a different meta. I only have 6 characters in elite and lose online all the time but have done very well at every tourney i've been to, and I have friends with like 30 charcters in elite that go 0-2 at said tourneys

I understand nerfing arsene slightly but buffing joker is kinda wild like he still is really good

@@kumarisampson8425 we only really say it because of Leo tho, other people struggle to get kills with base joker, in any case I wouldn't want his damage/kb to get boosted by much of course, just slightly

@@Lorenzo_Talpinum other people don't lab joker like leo thats their fault leo proves that base joker alone is high tier if not top 10 add arsene and he becomes top 0 the character as a whole is way too good i think base joker is better than arsene its just that he becomes a fox like ganon with arsene behind.. character needs to be nerfed its that simple

i've been saying this for ages. just move some of the power from arsene to joker so that the character is more consistent. I dont think joker is broken or even the best character in the game because there are waaaaay too many characters with dumb bullshit. palu, peach, snake, pikachu, zss. but arsene potential is too high lol. just buff base by like 1 to 2 percent on some of his moves and remove like a 3rd of the knockback from all arsene moves. also his counter is too big.

It means both players pick their first character without knowing what the other player picked

What about glutonny and prodigy?

@@subzero9889 prodigy has only beaten Leo once

@@ojutay8375 He never specified how many times they beat him, just said "all the players who have beaten leo". So that applies to prodigy as well no?

@@subzero9889 he actually did. He said Zackray has beaten all the players that have beaten Leo more than once

@@ojutay8375 Oh my bad, my brain kinda turned off for a moment. I thought he meant zackray beat them more than once.

フワンテかわいい

He 3-1d Maister and kinda carried the team in the crew battles, that on top of getting 2nd place at TS3 with a crazy losers run and a reset against Tea like 2 weeks ago...Marss is still a beast and his loses here are against Leo (best in the world), Zackray (best in japan) and Samsora (top 5)... He is still among the most consistent players and honestly, summit isnt a serious tournament, its a tournament to have fun and relax.

Also apparently tweek busted up his thumb with a football

He seems kinda inconsistent in the joker match up

@@Lorenzo_Talpinum Yeah for sure, its the match up itself tbh, Zss does really good against Joker but as soon as Arsene comes out...it becomes in her worst MU in the entire game.

His thumb got injured before summit so his hands aren't in tip top shape for tight executions

Tokenetta sounds like someone loses to joker a lot

Joker is way different than sheik.. wut... Just cuz they have similar size/fall speed and dragdown uair combos doesn't make them the same lol

Easy to critique one opinionated missed opportunity from behind a screen. Opposed to on the fly against a top 5 in the world. Every top player has oof moments.

You don't need to be in cali to smoke a fat blunt

@@bluckq i like u

Pay them no mind. Even Mkleo said Joker is busted but it is his job to WIN so there is that. The people crying out loud Joker is not busted are the ones that are afraid of possible nerfs which are propably happening once Terry comes out.

@@Yokai_Yuri Joker is 100% getting nerfed and its not like he doesnt needs them or deserves them... The Arsene mechanic itself its flawed, very poorly designed and with very little balance in mind like...Arsene buffs Joker from VERY GOOD to BROKEN, whoever denies how dumb Joker is knows absolutely nothing about what balance is.

you know he won game one with rob right?

@@paste3082 yeah then he got destroyed 2 in a row...

If it was as easy as picking joker to beat mars all the top players would be doing it. Zack is a very good player, joker is definitely top 3 characters but so far only 2 people have made him look good at this level.

Lucario gets rewarded too

ZSolid DanyS Is he? Considering he doesn’t get rewarded for losing stocks, while Lucario literally does

Not for losing stocks, just for the damage. Lucario gets rewarded for both. The thing is Arsene is crazy strong and Joker without Arsene is actually really good as well. It’s not crazy though, I don’t want them to nerf him to the ground because he’s mad fun.

@@laughinghyena888 Yeah but his awful frame data and gravity balances that out, Joker just becomes Sheik with Ganon's kill power and he is also a midweight cuz fuck balance.

@@rileymac2191 He gets a good chunk of meter every time he dies...

So why don’t you play joker and win summit?

Lul

You could always play joker and win majors if that's the case.

I don’t have ultimate :( and you know what I mean

Shagun Bhalla, ah. The ol “these top players suck, I could take them....if I owned the game”.

Ah yes, because a person who got top 5 at Genesis and top 8 at EVO and is considered 12th in the world is carried by Joker. Nice bait.

@@SeriousStriker ok

@@SeriousStriker 12th in the world, the best in Japan, consistently put a stress on Mkleo and drag him to game 5, always make Leo have to clutch the match out in an incredibly closing match. Like this Zackray is such a beast that people keeps discrediting him

@@hoanganphanle 7th best in the world*

@@SeriousStriker yeah I looked at the old PGR Rank

"unpolished joker".......i won't say anything else

Yes because individual match ups dont exist LOL

ROB isn't Zackray's actual main. The last time Marss played Light was at Evo, and Light won 2-0. Zackray's "unpolished" Joker has also beaten Maister and Nairo Literally *everything* you said was wrong. It's honestly impressive

@@kimjongchrist8943 You do you realize it's sarcasm, right? You see all the people pissed about Joker in the comments i'm pretty much mocking off of that.

here’s a tip, if you see anyone with that profile picture completely ignore them. They fanboy over the literal scum of the earth.

Top 8 character