Marx, Capitalism, and Neoclassical Economics | Steve Keen | Escaped Sapiens #65

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On this episode of the podcast I speak with UCL Honorary Professor of Economics and
ISRS Distinguished Research Fellow Steve keen. Steve famously predicted the 2008 market crash. He is also known for his criticism of modern economic theory, which he views as being inconsistent, unscientific, and empirically unsupported. He is currently working on a new science of economics built upon incontrovertible facts. We discuss the history of economic theory, the problems with neoclassical economics, and the way that our economic theory causes environmental destruction.
►Find out more about Steve's work:
profstevekeen.substack.com/
www.profstevekeen.com
►Support Steve on Patreon:
/ profstevekeen or Substack
►Follow Steve on RU-vid:
/ @profstevekeen
These conversations are supported by the Andrea von Braun foundation (www.avbstiftung.de/), as an exploration of the rich, exciting, connected, scientifically literate, and (most importantly) sustainable future of humanity. The views expressed in these episodes are my own and those of my guests.
Menu:
0:00 - Introduction
1:22 - Is economics a science?
3:15 - Chaotic and complicated systems.
6:25 - Economic Tribalism.
10:11 - Neoclassical economics & BullS@%t!
18:40 - History of neoclassical economics.
22:44 - Socialism Vs Capitalism.
29:20 - China and dynamism.
36:55 - Ghost cities.
40:45 - Economics on mars.
46:10 - Should there be billionaires?
48:40 - What is value?
56:20 - Micro Vs macro economics.
59:15 - Managing the economy.
1:01:50 - The value of economic predictions.
1:12:45 - Toxic assets & the little guy.
1:16:10 - Value and free energy.
1:22:20 - Avoiding economic disaster.
1:28:10 - Fossil slaves
1:31:55 - AI and consumption
1:36:40 - UBI.
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30 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 117

@Chasebald Месяц назад

OMG, the part where he absolutely bolts through all of neoclassical orthodoxy was completely insane. Steve Keen is something else lol.

@andrewpaterson5192 2 месяца назад

" Economists get away with their bullshit because they are not essential to the functioning of capitalism" . 😢

@truthaboveall7988 Месяц назад

America can’t do capitalism we do something far more nefarious & the so called capitalists r fully reliant on the symbiotic relationship between the govt & the policies that protect them from having to compete or succeed on their own sans taxpayer bail outs subsidies free printed $$$ & trade wars / China does capitalism if we’re honest about using definitions in their actuality & not the Orwellian way the US defines things including democracy

@jgalt308 22 дня назад

@@truthaboveall7988 When you don't understand what the words mean, and are ignorant of the history of the species, that you have anything positive to to offer to the discussion is highly improbable. As most are simply reacting to the circumstances they are subject to, positive contributions are negligible to nonexistent, and most are simply engaged in preaching to the various factions in order to accumulate power for themselves and the benefits that accompany it.

@waynemcmillan5970 2 месяца назад

Internationally famous and the most trenchant critic of mainstream economics, Steve Keen elaborates brilliantly why economics isn’t a science.He wants to rebuild economic theory from the top down and I support wholeheartedly his noble goal. Economics as taught in universities today is just sophisticated, mathematised, elegant cant, devoid of reality.

@krishammond8851 2 месяца назад

Economics as a degree is predominantly an easy pass. It’s not actually that difficult. Looking back, math was simple. Never touched linear algebra for example. Only uses of it without knowing underlying mathematics. Micro and macro is pretty crap aswell. Very out of date. The only reason I don’t regret is that I had a teacher akin to that teacher in dead poets society who was a legend and very inspiring

@Lyra0966 2 месяца назад

Indeed, but it's even more cynical than that. Neo-liberal economics is little more than an 'academic' edifice built to justify greed, inequality and exploitation.

@lengould9262 2 дня назад

Religion

@DaveShap 3 месяца назад

Nice beard! EDIT: SYSTEMS THINKING! Yes. The world needs more systems thinking.

@EscapedSapiens 3 месяца назад

Its never a permanent feature :,D

@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 2 месяца назад

I'm glad Ricardo corroborated my Environmental Economics University paper, "The Incorrect Supply and Demand Model"!! I relied on a great book called "ANTI-Samuelson"

@scoutjohnson1803 2 месяца назад

It’s easy to see how well economics work. All you have to do is look at the IMF statistics, (comparing the approx. 200 countries). It shows their ideas don’t work!

@shaunbooth1836 2 месяца назад

This was so refreshing to hear someone who truly understands the limitations of unscientific economics!

@arminius6506 3 месяца назад

35:02 last time i checked CCP had nearly 90 million members.

@craigrik2699 2 месяца назад

Who is the CCP? I know of the CPC?

@mikhailfranco Месяц назад

@@craigrik2699 CCP is the normal English abbreviation in common usage. CPC is the official English abbreviation approved by the CCP.

@chrisburnett4742 10 дней назад

It is astounding to me that Australia can produce a top notch economic thinker like Steve Keen, yet we operate an economic system that is designed to sideline those like him precisely because he shows them the fallacies of their models.

@Mary-Mar 4 дня назад

When I was in college, I took an economics 101 class and I distinctly remember my professor asking me after class to consider becoming an economics major because I grasped the concepts so well. I remained a political science major, and remember, even at 18 years old, I thought, I couldn't possibly spend my time studying something that's inherently made up and ignores the facts and realities of human nature. Looking back, while there's nothing scientific about "political science" either, at least the study of power dynamics and human behavior on both the micro and macro level was real. (I probably would have made more money, though)

@Pasandeeros 3 месяца назад

I wish I could give this more than just one thumb up.

@carolyntyrrell1645 3 месяца назад

Agree

@stringlarson1247 2 месяца назад

I feel the same about every conversation or talk with/by Steve over the past 10+ years.

@user-Jfjd638bdj82 20 дней назад

Such an underrated channel!

@daraolugbake7895 Месяц назад

Fantastic as usual, thank you Mr Keen.

@blairhakamies4132 2 месяца назад

Excellent. I got that idea around the third lesson of introduction of Economics. 👏

@mathieuraetz2041 3 месяца назад

Great talk.

@EscapedSapiens 3 месяца назад

Glad you enjoyed!

@jacktherip7750 3 месяца назад

truth and facts here....very nice thanks

@EscapedSapiens 3 месяца назад

Very Welcome... :)

@BFWRParadigmChange Месяц назад

Everything Keen says about the economy is correct...and the new monetary paradigm of Gifting strategically implemented is the solution.

@davidgordon1981 19 дней назад

As much as I am convinced that colonising Mars is the stupidest idea anyone ever had, a colony on mars would have to be basically primitive communist, like most indigenous societies where and still are.

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

The high cost of technology that was claimed to reduce prices had the opposite effect.

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

It’s not isms that causes problems it’s lack of anti monopoly laws taxing the poor

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Marketing and advertising blows ALL so-called theories of labour consumption and logic out of water

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

The double entry accounting is the root of the problem. It’s the smoke and mirrors of the system

@The0ldg0at 2 месяца назад

One of Marx goals was to build a scientific fondation to Economics. That's why he started with Dialectical materialism to be able to build some "objective" definition that could help to describe the evolution of societal economic interactions in the know human history. His best known dialectic expression is "Class strugle" between the few people of the "Ruling Class" against the "Working Class" which archeologists use to distiguish between between "civilized" and "non-civilized" societies. Like the famous Mr Spock said "The needs of the many common people should outweight the needs of the few (ruling) elites people. Live long and prosper." And that why the few elite capitalists wanted to promote the neo classical economic religion ("religare" what connect all people) in our higher education system.

@jgalt308 22 дня назад

"or the ONE!!!" But you seem to have missed the plot, and the ending/continuation because the "reality" and the choice, was totally the opposite of that "ideology". The essence of "being human"...or as Robert Sapolsky has shown...that altruism in behavioral biology is one twin, two siblings, or eight cousins.

@knasil Месяц назад

This is probably the best video about economics that I saw in my whole life... And I have been trying to understand this complete pile of garbage since the 2008 crisis!!! Thank you!

@davidgordon1981 19 дней назад

A realistic model would and should include the power and influence of money in politics!

@viralshaman5736 12 дней назад

making a lot of dubious assumptions re the uniqueness of our current "knowledge"

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

When those that benefits in increased demand also have the power to control supply of a critically important product or services then the entire demand supply price nonsense falls apart

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Why is shares not treated as debt when the corporations are literally borrowing from the investors cash and giving them a portion of the business?

@jgalt308 22 дня назад

Not true...as the shares are sold in the free market with no obligation of the issuer to purchase them. Actual ownership belongs to those holding "common "voting" stock, and in terms of the debt a corporation may be liable for, they are the last to be compensated should the corporation be dissolved due to bankruptcy. Other creditors, must be satisfied first before these shareholders receive whatever value might be left. Many corps do not issue "common stock" nor pay dividends...such as Amazon, so any gain comes from the appreciation of the stock itself and that is determined by the market. Those who issue loans to corps or who purchase "bonds" issued by them, are those who hold the "debt" and have priority in bankruptcy proceedings.

@scoutjohnson1803 2 месяца назад

The colonisation of Australia could be a blueprint for the colonisation of Mars. Without the mistakes the English made. No soldiers, no criminals from the slums of London. Maybe they should have somebody who knows what is going on.

@jesperandersson889 Месяц назад

Mars bars

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Why the heck are we trying to run the economy in 21st century according to theories from the world as it was before technology and marketing in the 18th century

@sebastianbalbo1906 2 месяца назад

Grazie

@davidgordon1981 19 дней назад

Buildings in Australia are glorified tents compared to the rest of the world!

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

The ultra rich families use the most energy by far per person

@jeffchapman8992 2 месяца назад

Enjoy Steve Keen BUT this is the first time I've heard him reference how "we've screwed up climate"! WTF? 😂 I'd love to hear him expand on this. Bizarre. 🤷‍♂️

@sammyDAbull2 17 дней назад

Turn your car on in the garage and wait around. Thats the exapansion

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Welfare harms humans except for the very disabled and sickly elderly all should earn their daily bread

@thecarpenter645 2 месяца назад

Good as usual Steve Keen. A good experiment for a society on Mars would be to send all the believers to Mars and see how they cope with life on mars, Elon and Jeff would be good starters for this experiment

@crowesarethebest 2 месяца назад

Great conversation. Thanks for posting.

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

When debt goes up so should wages to afford the debt of families. If business debt goes up and it failed to achieve growth from it then they should be declared bankrupt

@jgalt308 22 дня назад

Right...so you have no clue what money is or inflation or the source of either?

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Is governments going to tax the robots and are corporations going to sell to their robots?

@lengould9262 2 дня назад

They place significant emphasis on "economists" failure to predict the 2008 financial crash. I've long held a theory that what really happens (in the USA) has a crisis level disruption in each presidential election year that the GOP expects to lose incumbancy. A) if the wall street bosses of politicians expect their GOP pets to win the election and the presidency (and hence responsibility for the economy for next 4 years IN THE MINDS OF VOTERS), then moves are made to keep a "happier" situation for voters. B) if forecast GOP loses, then a really messed up economy is left for the winners. Similar for military (Carter/Reagan and Iran resolution), eg has notoriously conservative officer class of military EVER won an action for a Dem admin, or lost one for a GOP admin since Vietnam? (Actually i was surprised at raid on Osama compound actually achieving objective, highly motivated lower ranks overcame several problems. How long had CIA known he was there?)

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Economists read books they don’t run factories that’s the issues

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Only life has value in other words we sell our hours of labour and if we spend too many hours on anything it’s unproductive

@HerrschmannNachmann 2 месяца назад

1. CBDC 2. CBDC-backed UBI 3. to avoid hoardings and gains based on these: a ressource tax 4. use the centralized data provided by CBDC (= status of all resources in real time, patterns and trends) for optimizations of resource allocations 5. implement a real competition - that means: innovations / best-practices - and provide gratifications for sharing this knowledge (I'd have a Groupware-CSCW-solution with AI-integration for agile development with reviewsa, assessments and feedbackloops for CIPs at hand, btw ...) PS: the argument for private ownership of capital goods was what again? ... is this argument still valid, after pts 1-5 are implemented?

@crhu319 2 месяца назад

It isn't. Information problem solved.

@life42theuniverse Месяц назад

Economics is legally a science... for the grants and tax deductions

@life42theuniverse Месяц назад

Neoclassical ideology emerged from the oil market ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m30qeMboYXY.htmlsi=sjR248m9IIt4Kv5_

@life42theuniverse Месяц назад

Is there enough wood to make more chairs? How fast does the wood regrow? What purpose does the wood serve to nature? External and Irrelevant to the Rich.

@user-Jfjd638bdj82 20 дней назад

@@life42theuniversebut not only to the rich. To the poor as well. Poor are just as indifferent to environment or even more so than rich people. They like to play victim and put all of the blame on rich, as if poverty automatically implies righteousness. And i say it as a poor peasant. Humans just suсk.

@Keyur904 3 месяца назад

Loved your deep dive on Marx and modern economics! If you're looking to boost engagement, I specialize in transforming long-form content into catchy reels and shorts. Let's make your insights pop and reach a wider audience!

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Why can’t pensioners work in Australia?

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

Go study the Armish economy and you will see what economics should be

@vivianoosthuizen8990 Месяц назад

How much energy does robots and AI consume? Bet it’s more than humans.

@KenHinnenkamp 2 часа назад

The Earth is flat. All critical observations confirm it is not a sphere.

@terrancedick8912 Месяц назад

Proudly sponsored by The world economic Forum. How far can "you" walk in 15 minutes steve?

@foo_tube 23 дня назад

What will happen to the labor theory of value when/if they develop AI to do most of the white and blue collared labor, which seems an ever more real possibility these days. Will they give us all UBI? Or will they simply quietly kill us off by ignoring pandemics and the like? I want to be optimistic, but I'm guessing in a world that values money, business and commerce more than human lives, it will be the latter. It seems to me that a government that has no ethical qualms financing the bombing of hospitals and aid workers and universities and refugee camps... probably also lacks any qualms about doing roughly the same to its own populace... should they turn out to be inconveniently expensive. I would love to hear from any people who understand the higher level workings of economics on how things could work out for everyone. IOW, please talk me out of my pessimism if possible. Thank you.

@jgalt308 22 дня назад

Clearly, you missed that part of the discussion...and that Marx buried the "objective reality" to achieve his"intended result". The whole point of Keen's work He is currently working on a new science of economics built upon incontrovertible facts. However, that should read...economics as "science"...since it never has been and still isn't. a.k.a. entropy and the laws of thermodynamics.

@gilland2000 Месяц назад

No. It is not.

@psikeyhackr6914 23 дня назад

GDP is Grossly Distorted Propaganda What is NDP, Net Domestic Product? Where is the data on the annual depreciation of automobiles and other durable consumer goods since Sputnik? In his major work Karl Marx used the word 'depreciation' 35 times. But consumers did not buy automobiles and air conditioners when Marx and Smith wrote about economics. John Maynard Keynes never saw a television commercial for automobiles. Wealth requires land. Iron and copper had to be dug up somewhere. Crops have to be grown somewhere. But money does not give people brains though intellectual property can be bought or stolen. The NAZInomic Wargame is a continuation of the Military Wargame by other means.

@mikhailfranco Месяц назад

36:30 China does far less to help its poor than Western countries. You might say that the West is _much more_ socialist than China. China has poor education, private healthcare (and a bunch of TCM quackery), no state pensions and very few welfare benefits. Families are expected to help each other, and support the elderly - difficult after the one-child policy created an inverted pyramid. The West has decent public education, access to healthcare, massive welfare state, and pension system, so a huge fraction of GDP is public education/healthcare and transfer payments. For example: healthcare is free at point of use in UK and Canada, even the US has Medicaid and Medicare; education is free 5-18, university used to be free in the UK, until student fees & loans in 1998 (ironically introduced by Blair under Labour). China falls far behind the West on social support. Tier 1 cities give a false impression, because The Party tries to keep everything looking good, but there is a lot of poverty in the countryside (especially ethnic minority regions), smaller cities and local towns.

@user-Jfjd638bdj82 20 дней назад

Because the west is exploiting people and resources in all other countries of the world, including China and its population. They ARE ABLE to afford better social security for their people. Their loot is far greater than that of China.

@jesperandersson889 Месяц назад

Anglosaxon imperialism... wow POPCORN!!!

@Rob-fx2dw 6 дней назад

What about Steve Keen's prediction of what would happen to Australia's g housing prices? Oh that failed miserable but he doesn't want to talk about it because it shows his prediction that turn out correct are just due to chance. What about his MMt idea that Taxes put value into the money and get it accepted when the reality is Taxes did Nothing to keep the money accepted or put any value at all into it in all of the countries where massive inflation made the money worthless and rejected by everyone including their own governments. But I am not holding my breath because his admission of being wrong is not something his stunted emotional growth will allow. He doesn't want to talk about his failed economic theory because it will show he and Kelton and the other MMT economists are perpetuating MMt myths of huge proportions. They rely on the financially challenged people to fool and when someone with difficult challenging questions comes up to question them and point out their fallacies they run away and hide.