Yeah, pretty much 100% agree here. Especially the bits about Seele, Bailu and Gepard. I heard those parts and I was like "YES! Someone gets it!" The only nitpick I could make is I would make the same comment about Herta that you make about Himeko since she has more to offer than her FUA, but at the same time she has the same issue that Argenti has which is she's so match-up dependent that it isn't even funny. But when she has a good match-up, boy does she clean house!
SAME, I personally share his Pela and SV opinions, also Himeko’s. But mostly Gepard, I was constantly dying to bosses until I randomly got him one day. If anything he is just mini Aventurine for me
@@27Ganon but some characters fall off really hard if you can't meet a certain threshold. Namely Robin or Seele. If you have Seele with cracked stats then she goes hard, but if you don't meet the threshold that enables her to go that hard she will fall harder than other dps because she needs certain conditions to be met. Just like Robin, she is insane for 0 cycles because you are able to go more often with your main dps when the new wave starts, thus generating more energy for Robin and reducing the downtime of her ult and allowing 1 ult per cycle without having follow up characters. 0 cycles do show potential of a character, but they aren't indicative of general use performance.
@@oli201 I don't see why that's matter? Can Blade 0 cycle with insane relics? no. Can Jing Yuan 0 cycle with insane relics? maybe. Can IL 0 cycle blablabla, yes with E2. Now, can Seele 0 Cycle every single MoC since the game release? Yes. So why should investment be a downgrade? or 0 cycle for this matter? if she can put this much damage and clear every single MoC 12 at 0 cycle so she is a top tier character, regardless of how much she needs to achive that. And she don't even needs her sig LC or be hyper invested....
@@solace4366 It's not that investment is a downgrade it's that those levels of investments aren't reached by 99.99% of players. A tier list for people who have reached that level is not good information for anyone. I agree that Seele is strong with great investment, but it's misleading to put her in top 3 dps in a tier list that will mostly be USED by casuals and then build their Seele and run her in auto battle and be disappointed. Sweaty players don't look at tierlists for info, they look at it to confirm their bias or for fun.
Tierlist are used by newbies who want to see powerscale, and if they see things like Seele still on top, they would think she's easy to build now and would weight her higher than those who are easier to build. 0 Cycles exist due to there not being a harder criteria, if there is another harder MOC level or a future MOC, most units that can barely 0 cycle now will not be able to, and we can see them be outshined by those who 0 cycles easily. For example if you bring the current teams that can 5-10 cycle back in time to the first MOC with Seele. Most of them will 0 cycle it easily due to enemies being alot weaker before.
Yo the seele argument might be valid. Everytime i see a cracked seele she goes crazy and does stuff people dont think she can do. Im like you when it comes to speaking on seele without playing her. I use to do that, but now i look up characters i dont normally play with before i speak.
Seele is still cracked afik, im literally still using her in MoC since day 1 besides Acheron. She does able to 0 cycle every MoC actually, so idk how tf people think she is bad. Those denials sound like skill issue to me. Tho its prob mostly because she requires insanely high investment especially god relics.
@@notxendras7730 Nah, the moment you miss a crit in ult or skill that should've 1 shot the enemy, you will realize that she needed that God relics. It's all about the playstyle, she depends too much on resurgence that dropping the CD body for a CR body is justifiable just to guarantee a kill but you may lack the damage to oneshot unless you got like an E2 sparkle or something.
@@notxendras7730 It's okay, I understand that some people can't understand simple math and just cope with it by thinking they are better, in a game where you have a basic attack, skill and an ultimate. I guess your brain has alot of issues.
I disagree with putting robin in dual dps as forcing depending on the units used. Blade/robin/jingliu can get her energy back up pretty well with the only issue being blades horrendous spd.
thank brotha people love talking out they ass dhil has literally one of the strongest teams in the game it’s isn’t a debate E0 or E2 call it cope but prydwen has the best teams in numerical order in terms of 0 cycle and jingliu isn’t even in the top 10🤦🏾♂️
U mention downtime but robin and Ruan Mei have different downtime. Mei doesn’t no dmg till break. That’s including her ult. robin always has benefit from ult but and provides more dmg in general. It’s better to compare the whole kit that 1 to 1 ult, skill etc.
Robin is like Crit Ruan Mei using Bronya mechanics. I have both and have seen that they aren’t so different to each other overall. Even Sparkle doesn’t reach the level of Acheron T0. Adventurine makes you never take damage and resists debuffs. Fu Xuan can give you a much needed buff and mitigates even the hardest hitting one-shots. They both deserve that T0 because the moment you get them, sustain will never be a problem. Harmony has yet to get a real T0 since there are caveats to their kits right now. Mostly allrounder but not specialising enough to be overpowered in that one aspect. Proper team comps is what makes them T0.
@iyoverse i always wanted to ask something after being a veteran genshin player and i can 36 star moc in hsr.. Just answer this question with yes no or extremely simple words.. No explanation. I have e0s1 acheron. If i can save 500 pulls till next acheron banner and get e6 s1 acheron. Is it better or is it better to pick up other meta characters on the way?
@@Andrew_S1 still doesn’t change the Fact that Pela is more or less on the same lvl. And let’s also not forget a majority of the player base probably doesn’t have SW because they weren’t here for her or skipped her Rerun for example meanwhile just about everyone has a Pela and with dupes aswell.
I use Welt for the new weekly boss of Penacony. He made it possible for me to "auto" that guy without having Adventurine (I skipped him for Robin). Anyway good video!
I beat him with preservation MC. That boss is easier compared to the crab. It was just a challenge of it is possible to solo sustain that fight with FMC and it actually was quite easy
Hey iyo, I just wanted to say that although I might not agree with some of your takes about certain characters I respect you for actually giving an explanation instead of being biased. Also don’t let what people say get you down :) I think your pretty solid RU-vidr who has some interesting takes.
Mad respect to Iyo for that Seele take. Over the last couple of weeks I've seen a lot of people say Seele fell off and she isn't that strong anymore but that is only true if you compare her to Acheron and everyone fell off compared to her. However one thing that nobody can argue about is that Seele has consistently cleared both MoC and PF since day 1 (she at least carried my ass through one side since launch). Also Seele not only 0-cycled every MoC but also full cleared every PF
It's not just that she 0 cycled every MoC, but she also 0 cycled most MoCs CHEAPER than any other DPS. Acheron requires more limited units to 0 cycle Sam than Seele does with both at E0S0.
@@spicynugget7406 Here we go again. This is proven fact, feel free to search for evidence on bilbili and YT, I'm not going to waste time doing so for you. This is exactly what Iyo and others mean when they talk about how Seele's potential is severely underestimated by the community. IIRC, Acheron's cheapest clear needs SW while Seele just needs Bronya - it's just the difference between a limited and non-limited 5 star, but Seele still wins in terms of cost.
So when people said HuoHuo isn't straight better than Luocha since she needs SP, so at the time for a lot of teams without high investment she can run out they were wrong, but now Robin needing high investment teams is some huge downside? Talk about not being a RM simp
Prydwen demoted DHIL supposedly due to SP issues but the problem with DHIL has never been SP but his damage per cycle - people don't realize this since they look at dmg per screenshot Sparkle did enable him to frontload his damage IF you can get 3 Sparkle turns in cycle 0 but you still run into the same issues in cycle 1 onwards
Sparkle barley made dhil better. Just easier to play. He is still well outperformed by dr ratio and seele if you actually look at dmg per cycle not big screenshot dmg
he is nd it isn’t clowns these talk out of there ass like prydwen doesn’t have each team in the game ranked in terms o cycle ability. Of the top ten teams in the game 3 are Hypercarry dhil, the rest are Acheron and various Kafka dot teams. Men lie women lie numbers don’t
@@Iyoverse Dhil don't really suffer from overkill damage like acheron does and he straight up just sheets higher than jingliu, I will admit a lower invested jingliu will perform better than a lower invested dhil but if that's your standard then you can't rlly talk abt selee cuz although she's cracked at higher investments at low investment she struggles quite a bit. This is assuming the metric if 0-2 cycles, if you want to look at the recommended minimum of 5 cycles exclusively then i can get why jingliu might be better.
The only thing I will say about Ruan Mei is while she is easy to use and gets a lot of value on a lot of teams, to me personally she doesn't feel as necessary as other supports in some comps. Like Dan needs Sparkle and while you can run Ruan Mei it's not bad you would rather have Ting Yun. Acheron wants Nihility but if you are going to replace a nihility with a harmony its going to be for sparkle. FUA Mei can work but you much rather have Robin now. Even in like Hyper Carry someone characters like Bonya and Sparkle are more important than Ruan Mei is. And while Break Meta is coming, and Ruan Mei is important for it I wonder how her value in time will compare to Harmony MC and if Ruan Mei is more replaceable/Unnecessary She still the best for Dot/Dual DPS (Unless you have like a tuned and set up Robin comp then they can be equal) And in all honesty I wouldn't against her being above everyone else in Harmony she is still so easy to use and get value out of in EVERYTHING.
Mei might not be necessary for any team, but since she is always good and doesn't have many drawbacks, she can slot into any team and it's good. Her value is flexibility. She also helps with sustain due to the break efficiency and ult debuff, so she can work in sustainless comps or even help weaker sustain to function better. I often use her in sustainless teams since I only have 1 limited sustain, I use Mei as my other 😂
Welp I don’t want to spoil anything but if you spent more then 5 seconds reading the New Mc kit then you’d know the Break meta is here so ya RM stocks are going up… As for RM vs HMC that’s a dumb comparison ( not trying to be mean ) because if you know how Super Break works the only 3 things to buff it are 1 Break Efficiency, 2 Def Ignore, 3 Res Pen…. Hmm I wonder what E1 Character buffs all 3 of those???
@delilahdavis6768 If we are bringing up E1 then yeah Ruan Mei outclasses all probably, Also my thing with Ruan Mei in HC wasnt that she didnt have value no its amazing value I was just saying is how much it would compare to like an Action Advance or Energy Recharge from other characters thats all. Like Ruan Mei is still probably better but could you get by with other options but for Super Break you need HMC because well its their mechanic.
@@Foreverskull0 the best thing to add to HMC is Ruan Mei, even at E0. Even if you’re not getting the DEF shred, the res pen and especially the break efficiency is gonna make HMC so much better. There’s literally no other character that would be better in that position. Robin, Sparkle and Bronya are gonna be kinda meh bc the ATK and CRIT increases are gonna do nothing, so all you get is action advance which is good but like…there’s only a certain extent that would help as compared to RM. Like the weakness efficiency isn’t just gonna help break faster, which is really important, but it literally increases the dmg by 50% because super break scales off units of toughness that would be depleted by an attack
hour long video and half of it is just trying to explain why ruan mei is the best despite literally everyone knowing this, coulda saved alot of time by just saying "yeah ruan mei is cracked" end of story.
she's not the best, everyone has their own specialism and they are excel in that category. Ruan Mei can be a little bit more universal but right now, she's no better than any other 2. Ruan Mei is only the best in Jingliu/Blade comp right now, which is kind off but it is what it is. She needs those break characters so bad to really make her own special.
@@viethoanggamer Still in the next patches there will be several break DPS like boothill and firefly which will increase her possible teams even further.
As a dhil main, i apologize on behalf of the people who are attacking you for an opinion. It's probably the hottest take I've seen since i started hsr so I'd like to see a video on that. The way i see it and feel free to correct me, this tierlist is aimed at general people and not everyone can 0 cycle so idk how much it hold weight in terms of character placement. With dhil given you've sparkle you just use 3sp ba, ult and stuff which is pretty easy to follow and get the damage meanwhile you'll have to probably try harder by thinking and managing seele. It's kinda like how yukong can be a great support but she needs so much brain power that most people don't even use her. I've seen some seele do some crazy shit so wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong🤣
Did you even watch all of his videos? This guy has been a dhil hater since day 1. There is nothing wrong disliking a character but he hates him to a degree that its not funny anymore. He is biased towards female characters (which can be fine ig) but his takes are awful. 😂😂😂
@@Noamy092 how is it biased? It is fact. Dr ratio is a male character and he is better than dhil. Seele is on the same tier as ratio so by logic she is also better than dhil. Why are y’all just blaming all us takes on male hate? Like bro only makes a take on dhil and all of a sudden he hates men? Dhil mains brains are truly underdeveloped
@@Tam-lv1mp bro u r a dhil hater as well. Just look at ur comments haha I guess you are one of his sheeps or parrot? I am not even sure anymore 😂 I am sorry but you are a complete joke at this point 😂
@@Noamy092 Not jus dhil he hates the Hypercarry team style of play so much he tries to advertise FUA as the next best team, it will never be Dot and Hypercarry are jus too far ahead
As a Robin/Sparkle main I don't think you're wrong. I understood this when making the purchase because all characters kits are out there for us to get an idea well beforehand. My playstyle is get characters I like and save to make them stronger. Tier list is still very important for base knowledge on expectations of a character.
Honestly, they can be cracked but if the AI is stupid it doesn't help you 😭 I've had to come off auto too many times while farming because one of my characters made the dumbest choice possible or didn't heal/shield when they should have If you could configure your auto battle preferences by character It would go down as one of the best turn based games period
I still think Argenti is massively slept on, due to both him having been skipped by almost everyone and I guess the prevalence of judging characters by their ability to 0 cycle. Argenti has been very reliably 2-3 cycling at least one side of MoC EVERY time since his release with very realistic investment (a.k.a glue him to Ting, have one advance forward support, Huohuo is great but not even mandatory, and have some good relics) but is just terrible at aiming lower due to 0 cycle basically being impossible for him due to the way his ult works. And before someone says he needs physical weakness, he has been able to do so in previous MoC 12s while bruteforcing through non-physical weak floors. Of course not saying he is Apex or T1, but he is defo universal and serviceable enough to actually clear MoC in a timely manner, which should be enough to let him be a "meta" char for MoC
Lack of Huohuo still hurts his performance in MOC, especially when only using 4star LC and rainbow relics, while others do just fine with same setups. HSR needs to give him an upgrade. I'll take relic sets focused on ERR and ult. DoTs, hp scalers, Fuas, breakers and debuffers all got their relics working and he is still on boxing set that only amplies his ult, if ever he can even fill his ult before cycles ends.
Acheron kinda suffers from the same problem tbh, it's just that her overall level is so much higher that it's not noticeable (yet). She might be able to 0 cycle more easily than most if not all units, but her ceiling is kinda capped in the same way Argenti's is.
Definitely agree. I've seen f2p argenti with okayish crit ratio do so much damage in both showcases and by using him as a support. These tier lists make me question if I was hallucinating or not💀
I sometimes disagree with certain things you say, which is why I love hearing your perspective. You back up what you say and it definitely makes me consider to change how I look at certain characters or builds. I appreciate the vids. Good stuff
seele is definitely one of the top dps imo, i never run any problem on MoC using seela. but for pulling value wise, she is glazed so much and often can mislead new players but if u have her alrd she is still a competitive dps. i have both acheron and seele but if u put half seele investment to seela yes acheron can dish MoC easily unlike seele. but in terms of the investment ceiling and what shes capable of, she definitely competes with the apex tier dps.
Lol Iyo chose violence with this hsr community today, I agree with most of what you say though. My only disagreement is with Topaz she is niche asf. She only works with FuA characters that have FuA that hit constantly, like ratio and Adventurine. She has less value with all other characters vs a good harmony character The Seele take is gold though
Agreed. People also don't bring up that if the enemy team doesn't have a fire weakness, there are valid arguments to not even run topaz in the FUA team and instead run another support like a tingyun. Some creators already pointed this out and it's something to consider. Topaz is amazing, but as you say, in niche situations.
@@GodofGoblins You can either replace topaz with two characters tingyun AND pela because you need a debuffer and a buffer just to match her value which topaz does both. I think that says enough. Also of course she only works with fua teams you're not seeing black swan used with anyone besides dot and acheron. With the introduction of jade fua teams won't be as niche and she'll be a premium unit
@@mitzi3262 no, a debuffer is not the requirement to match her value. This is why I mentioned tingyun, because her energy gain and attack buff can be more than enough for say a Dr ratio to put in fine work and clear just as fast or faster than if it were topaz. But again, this is assuming you are facing a team that doesn't have fire weakness which I pointed out initially. If there is then yes, topaz would be ideal. But you see why she is rather niche yes? Side note, black swan isn't used in just dot teams. She is quite popular with acheron teams as well, who is currently meta. I think you mean to say kafka as an example of niche, which would be fair. Yes a damage carry kafka is a thing, but of course isn't optimal. But yeah, hope you understand what i am saying. Topaz is incredible, but pretty niche.
I only disagree with his SW vs Pela take. SW is worthy of her placement now because of Acheron and because we're moving into a more Break oriented meta. SW isn't as good as she is because her debuffs are better than Pela's (which is why most CCs used to rank Pela higher).
@@mitzi3262 firstly you just replaced her with SW and you get defuffs, def shred and planting Imaginary weakness. Secondly ntn in topaz kit synergies with Jade, Topaz only works with characters that benefit from having A Lot of FuA done. Like Ratio, Adventurine and Robin. All other FuA are better buffed by regular harmony characters. Because of the frequency of FuA
@@chisenchou It was sarcastic, It's literally impossible for ratio's fua to hit as hard as a selee ult cuz the selee ult multiplier is higher, with the same buffs and same stats selee always outdamages (purely ult vs fua)
People saying iyo has bad takes basically dont listen ngl I don't agree with everything buh the fact you explain your thought process is what i respect a bunch
@@papichulo2756 can you show me where that was said I probably forgot and I want to be sure before I proceed with a follow up comment Because I believe he explained he's thought process as to why he thinks that
I feel like Ruan mei is slowly becoming more of a jack of all trades master of none type character. When hoyoverse starts releasing more characters like Robin and trailblazer that do more for specific teams than Ruan mei, she will slowly turn into a secondary support character that won't be as important. She'll still be great just not as impactful as she is now.
I think what make seele in that tier is becaus she need high investment, 70% cr is not enough you need 90% Oher than that you must do big brain play her, all others char above seele is just spam skill and do the same or higher dmg than seele That 2 things above is what make seele in that tier, not to mention in nowdays MoC most enemy is just 2 boss with no mobs Thats what i think, just share opinions
Got Robin late but won 50/50...then got Topaz and her sig in 34 wishes total. Have Ratio and Aventurine built and the boys are just waiting for me to build these new girls now 😊
Making a tier list for teams is a good idea in concept, but I think it's too hard to set in practice. You might see the same core of characters (acheron, sw and pela for example) 3/4 times because the team works greatly with aven, with gallagher and with gepard. What can be done however is a list of synergy for 2 characters, but it won't completely delete the problem either and it would "nerf" teams that require more characters to work
I really need to see the main dps comparisons in a video. Because I feel like Daniel does so much with his enhanced basic that it rivals Acheron damage even on her ult so long as he is paired with Sparkle. Jingliu and Seele feel more situational in how they can be good as well. I have seen Seele nukes, but Jingliu just doesn’t seem impressive. Maybe it’s just been a while
Acheron can get her ult really fast. She can easily get 2 ults in every cycle. Acheron works against pretty much any enemy especially since she has colorless break, but also all-type RES penetration. Acheron allows you to use your other premium Harmony characters on your 2nd team, thus improving your TWO teams damage just by existing.
@@Tam-lv1mp My similar investment DHIL and Acheron both clear in 2 cycles. I don't see a big difference. Acheron overkills a lot so you get a big number on screen but what matters is kill speed. This is with a 161 speed Sparkle though which dramatically improves DHIL so he can attack much more often per cycle. The kill breakpoints can matter here because Acheron kill speed is usually determined by how many ultimates it takes to kill the wave. For me it is often two ultimates. If it takes third then her kill speed falls down a lot. DHIL damage is more spread apart letting you kill them with just the right amount of damage needed. Acheron is still better because she is more universal but so long as the enemy is imaginary weak the performance is similar in my experience. What is funny is if I get really lucky my Qingue can also 2 cycle.
I think you lose relatability points when you mention what they can do and then ignore what it takes for them to do what they do. For example, I have no doubt Seele can zero cycle, But what artifacts do I have to grind and how much do I have to grind to be able do that and will the average player even want to do that grind? probably not. When DHIL Jingluiu clear MoC alot faster then Seele at more comfortable/relatable investment/relic grind then the amount of grin it would take Selee to do the same thing. Which is why they are placed that high. Same thing Ruan Mei and Robin situation. Can Ruan Mei perform better? Maybe, but what do you need, Break effect sub stats on all pieces, and it roll into this subs stats and to make it easier on the player you would of needed to pull and get the a gacha light cone that gives break effect for harmony either way as well which is only two light cones. Her signature or S5 Memories of the past, Both Gacha. Other wise you need 17% break effect on each piece you got. Robin doesn't need this. Sub stat she only cares about is Atk% and there is no requirement she is trying to meet to get x effect either. Will she perform better if each relic had atk% and it all rolled into atk%? Sure. But is it needed for her entire kit to work? No. That is why they are ranked where they are and why Prydwen is hesitant to move Raun Mei up above Robin. On top of that with the new characters coming out, you now have characters competing for that break effect stat line as well. No one is competing for Robin's who has ATK% orb with flat hp, flat atk Flat Def,DEF% or worse sub stats. hell even if that percent atk sub stat anit no one competing for that. TLDR: You got to think about the average players relics, how much they are willing to invest into a character, and how likely are the are going to have x stat line for that character. Easier to build to perform and clear MoC the better they are gonna be on the tier list.
The thing is if you do want to do a 0 cycle, Seele can generally do that more cheaply (factoring in both relics and limited units/eidolons) than any other unit. This more or less applies to 1 cycle clears and in some rare cases 2 cycles. It's only when you get to 2+ cycles that Seele starts to fall off sharply. For Day 1 players, DHIL/Jingliu should frankly just not be clearing that much faster if at all if you've invested smartly into all of them. They'll only seem to perform much better if you're not playing Seele well or if you have poor investment into all of them. Jingliu in particular will perform much better at low investment, but you can comfortably have them all at decent investment at this point.
I mega agree with your Robin take, but I gotta disagree on the Seele take because it seems like your stance is largely predicated on her being better at 0 cycling but that's a specific criteria that i feel you cherry picked because it skews towards certain units, namely Seele because she has innate SPD buffs and action advance. These advantages do not matter as much in normal circumstances, so in terms of practical performance at reasonable investment, DHIL should still be better
@@Pineapple_Papi don't matter if he said it or not a mega invested selee does beat out the average daniel, damage dealers aren't so far apart that a mid build will win againts a really good build wth.
@@Pineapple_Papi If you want selee all power to you brother, but feel no pressure, the influence media has is crazy but realistically speaking any char can clear all content so long as you invest in em a bit.
The thing about Seele is, is it really Seele doing the 0 cycle or is it the supports buffing her. Was arguing about this with another person in the last video then I check his stats and he uses E2S1 Sparkle and E1S1 Fu Xuan, at that point ANY DPS will 0-1 cycle. Plus the data doesn't lie, you keep yapping about how good or bad some units are etc, like ratio being a tier lower but there is no proof unlike prydwen's data.
@@LyriaAstralius Yes, but if we're talking about dps with E0S0 supports then Seele cant even get 5 cycles unlike the real top 3. I tested with my Seele with 87/270 if buffed (124 speed 70/180 unbuffed) by sparkle and with FX and SW. And yeah she got powercrepted hard. I used the same supports with dr. Ratio and he finished in 3 cycles. Though my Sparkle isn't speed tuned to Seele due to her being in 160 speed while seele has 150, I could probably shave a cycle or 2 if I changed her to be slower but has higher CD. I really wish Seele eidolons were more significant
@@chisenchou well that sucks, I guess it is expected though since she is a day one unit. I am saddened by this. Would this still say that supports are more important than dps characters?
@@LyriaAstralius Yeah, Supports are king in most gacha games. If you have E0 bronya, sparkle, Ruan mei, Robin or even E6 Tingyun or Pela, you can guarantee a less than 10 cycle MOC 12 even with the weakest DPS. As usual in these Gacha games, pull for playstyle, not Meta.
@@chisenchou I definitely pull for who I like character art direction and animations wise. I just want more future prrof DPS characters to launch. In FGO the buffs they give to a lot of dps characters help them at least keep up and I want more games to kind of adopt the old unit upgrade system
Omg Iyo your video just gave me an idea after you talked about Welt, we all know about the Ruan Mei combo but now that we have Robin who's ult does have priority, perma lock with Welt, Ruan Mei and Robin just got even better. The order should be Trap with Welt's technique then break enemy shields with Ruan's extra break and when enemies recover from break then you Robin ult and then rinse and repeat. So the last slot would be pretty flexible such as Huo Huo for more energy and more consistency or either use to include a dedicated break unit with the proper element or even a follow up team mate. Another idea I have now that break will be meta is Break Luocha, the real value of Luocha lies in him breaking the enemy shields and since he is imaginary would trap enemies and thus increasing even further his team utility the new gallagher light cone its perfect for this at higher refinements and even adds further to his own survivavility. Id love to see you turn these two ideas into videos if its possible for you.
there needs to be different tiers for dual dps hypercarry and dot since they have different needs. for example fu xuan absolutely not above huohuo in dot
Idk why they are so allergic to just using SSS, SS and S naming conventions like seriously EVERYONE USES THIS IN TIER LISTS AND EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS IT Sigh Also major issues with this list and not having Ruan Mei in SSS is actually insane and genuinely just ignoring every players input on her actively Also pela ALWAYS goes where Silver Wolf does. We have established this since day 1 Edit: I just realized where the hell is Harmony Trailblazer? Y'all really rated Robin and not even Add the ONLY HARMONY CHARACTER THATS ACTUALLY SSS TIER ON PAR WITH RUAN MEI????!!!! Edit 2: wtf is this list fr Lil gui lower then literally all the other DoT characters??? Huh? WHAT??? Bruh... I swear to GOD prwdyn does NOT play DOT teams at ALL AND if whenever they finally do decide to add Harmony TB for whatever reason Himeko BETTER go up multiple spots or so help me IX
49:50 Serval being tier 3 is crazy, she is literally one of the most goated 4* with the ability to extend shock state (can have multiple break effect shock on an enemy at once if you want to and you're playing her with Kafka) and she does pretty good damage Edit: Not even mentioning that she's hella good for pf
As a Gallagher and Luocha haver, I'd be happy with both being up in the same tier. In some teams, Gallagher definitely brings more to the table. I'd also put Ruan Mei in the top tier, above Robin and Sparkle. She elevates every and any team you make. The other two are absolute apex units, but Mei edges them both out. Truth about Silver Wolf. So many people think the only thing she does is implant weakness. That's just the cherry on top! Silver user her WHOLE kit to apply debuffs and multiple types of debuffs at that. Also the quantum break. Poor Blade, lol. He is definitely a dual/sub dps unit. Guinaifen should be higher. She can also take advantage of Resolution light cone and a break build.
Same - auto heal is so clutch from luocha but Gallagher I feel does more damage and is really good at breaking, I'll use him as a sub sustain and not feel like I'm losing out if there is fire weakness
47:39 Bailu is the only one with a revive at E0, but not the only reviver in the game. Bailu has her standard 1 revive per battle and E6 Bailu basically gives you 2 revives per battle. Huohuo may not have her revives in her E0 BUT Huohuo's E2 gives Huohuo 2 revives per battle while her SKILL is up - unlike Bailu (who has it passively on and will kick in as long as she is not stunned); Huohuo will revive your character as long as her skill is active even if Huohuo herself is currently stunned. Fu Xuan (don't have her- have only read the E2) also has a revival mechanism at her E2 when her SKILL is active she can revive 70% unlike Huohuo's 50% (Bailu's revival heal scales on her own HP) ALL downed allies that were affected by a single action once per battle (I am uncertain if this scenario also includes herself). So yeah- I know it's not their E0, but we have 3 characters that can revive allies in the game. The only thing I haven't managed to properly test out (since I only get to have my E1 Huohuo to E2 in SU) is whether Huohuo can use up both of her revives at the same time if two characters get one-shot and if her own skill can essentially revive herself - I know Bailu can't. Can anyone here with an E2 Huohuo confirm? Bailu is the only reviver in the game that revives allies at E0 and does so passively with her talent. If a good LC comes for her that can provide cleanse, as you said, she will be golden - while making sure she has a good eff res ofc. Currently 127 pulls into Robin's banner - lost 50/50 and have my Bailu at E4 now; currently 50 pulls into my guarantee, but holding back since I'm pretty much out and I really want to E2 my Huohuo in the next patch.
Sounds solid. If you already have a luocha or huo huo though I would advise to reconsider since 2 high quality sustains are all an account needs. But if you don't, fu xuan is solid. That and if some day u wanna run mono quantum which is solid too
@GodofGoblins Don't have huohuo or loucha. And I have everything for monoquantum. My confliction mostly lies in picking between huohuo or fu xuan for my lunae team. Huohuo seems to be the bis pick but my personal like leans more towards fu xuan.
@@sleepy3474 ah OK. Yeah I would pick whoever you find more appealing and fun at that point. Both would be strong picks and can help clear end game content, so that will be up to you
@GodofGoblins Yeah, I think im gonna pull for fu xuan. It I had kafka and swan. I would consider huohuo a bit more. But since i have everything for mono quantum, she feels like a better fit for me right now. Maybe I'll pick up huohup in the future once my account is more built out.
about your take on blade, honestly imma have to wait until we get a proper HP buffer before i can make my opinion on that. The way i see it, rn blade has an abundance of crit damage, damage percent and def shred buffs at his disposal but because of that there's a large imbalance of HP buffs. Its also possible that his HP scaling is actually quite low and we just dont have the context of another hp scaling dps to really see that yet, but tldr i wouldnt judge an attack scaling dps without an attack buffer so im not gonna do that for blade either. Another thing people tend to forget about blade is that he's one of the dps characters who have 3 separate AND potent sources of consistent damage. His enhanced basic might not hit as hard as dan's, his ult might not hit as hard as Dan's, but he has a whole extra potent source of damage that's has the potential to become more potent by being triggered faster, at his disposal.
It was dope coming out to the stream and watching! I'll have to come back! But really though, this tier list is so much better than the older ones, more specialized and is easier to understand with the numbers. I still do think that RM is Tier 0 and Robin is like 0.5 and as for Seele, she should be higher as well
Looks like you recorded this before HMC got added. Since you're one of the only HSR creators that digs into high level hollistic meta shifts and trends on the reg, I'm curious on your thoughts on HMC and what you think it means for the upcoming meta - they're definitely pushing a new style of break archetype and HMC seems to be the primary (and only) enabler for it right now.
"only enabler" I wonder if theyll ever add a unit that can do super break too. I'm very new, but to my understanding, actual taunt status still is only on Fire MC right? Or maybe the next break enabler will use some other mechanic (like breaking enemies adds back 1% of toughness bar, so you can reapply break effects and super break etc)
@@terrellrideoutt1244none of those are taunt - preservation tb *guarantees* herself to be hit, all of the others only increase the *chance* of being hit.
Iyo, idk if you'll see this but talking about Acheron i made a psuedo BE team with her, Aventurine, Mei and her best imaginary friend (don't wanna spoil for some people). And i explained to a friend that while Acheron isn't getting the main buffs she usually has with nihility characters, the mega breaks still look good and can kinda be abused for Acheron's ult (ult toughness cleave) because she's so cracked even without her perfect team. And i just wanted to see if you'd ever test wild teams out just to see what happens? I know it isn't optimal or her best team, but it's interesting to see if it does work and how it does 😂. Also, never stop making ya videos, man. Always good to see them
Glad to see Yukong is getting some love. Yukong(E6) is quite frankly a very strong harmony. So far the best way to use Yukong is in a dual dps mono-imaginary team where she's the slowest or a fast team all 147 spd where she is also the slowest 😭. I'm confident her best team will be Her, Welt, Imaginary Dps(Ratio works but he's a little too greedy, unless you have an E1 Welt) and HuoHuo. Hopefully when Screwllum drops he'll be an imaginary Erudition crit dps unit with a relative low ult cost and has enhanced basics because then Yukong stonks will 📈📈📈. If he has an SP recovery mechanic that'll be even better.
44:50 actually no,u can watch in pokkes video, where he was reviewing cn usage,average cycle a.t. . Xuei was on average fastest clears (granted with small amount people playing her,but still). So she was meta character ever before harmony mc,just in right hands (like Selle).
Disagree with the Robin take! When she goes all the way down after using the ultimate, she has already done her work. She has given all the buffs and her buffs don't run out in the middle. Now she attacks with every character and gains energy with them. The faster your character attacks the more energy she gets. Even with a bad team, she gets half the energy back. It's the same thing with slow Ruan Mei, you use the ultimate and then you don't want the buff to run out, that's why she's slow
Will you go into more detail about Daniel vs Seele in the Seele video coming up? And do you genuinely beileve that seele is either 3rd or the 4th best dps in the game?
@@papichulo2756 CN has proven y'all clowns wrong abt 1,000 times, you can say whatever abt low-mid investment but at the top of the top selee is high up in the dps list
@@papichulo2756 the thing is if you just put all your bias aside and looked at practical and legitimate data. You would see that seele is just better than dhil with much faster clear times and better team synergies.
@@Tam-lv1mp where would I go to find this ? because according to prydwen she isn’t even in the top ten of clears of the MOC …..yk who is Kafka, Acheron, Dhil in that order not Jing or seele so go ahead and show me these number you are referencing???
I do love my Seele, I just seem to be unable to nail down how to play her properly. So I am glad to here all my attempts to invest in her are going somewhere. If you do end up making a Seele video/guide I very much look forward to learning how to master her
Nah at this point we should make a tier list for hardcore/experienced players and one for user friendly/new players. Because Huo Huo only loses against Aventurine in the modes where the bosses literally OS your team. In the other modes Huo Huo sustains perfectly and her making your dps and supports getting the ultimates earlier is stronger than Aventurine’s chip damage, at least in my opinion. And Robin v Mei is basic: if Robin is outside of Fua teams and Mei of BE teams (dots prolly will get a more suitable Harmony or Nihility), are you a hardcore player with high quality investment? Then Robin is better, straight. Are you a new player with standard investment and/or not willing to explore the depths of the game, then Mei is straight up better. Easy
Yeah I mean I think the issue is majority of players are likely more on the casual side. This was same with genshin impact too. Not to mention if someone is sweating that hard and is ultra invested, you probably know what is meta and good anyways. You're probably 0 cycling like no one else's business, so idk how useful a tier list would be for a player like that. But for those that aren't as invested, it's good to see what are general high value characters for an account, like how they analyze sustains. But that's just my perspective. I guess people out there can make a hard-core list if they like
@@GodofGoblins I get your point, from an engagement perspective making a hardcore tier list can be redundant or unnecessary because they already know how the game works. But eventually casual gamers with time will have accounts with enough investment to reach what the hardcores are doing right now, that's why I think it will be useful somewhat. Like, you can do a general user tier list and then as a side note the hardcore tier list where the passionate players can discuss and give their thoughts to the community. Because I'm a bit casual but I like listening to the good players to understand more deeply how the game works.
@@pauvaldes4291 Fair. I somewhat disagree that casuals with time turn into invested hardcores though. If anything, from what ive seen not just with this game but games in general, is when a casual reaches end game and has a full account, they tend to play less or treat it even more casual. Like if people reach a point they can clear MOC, I dont think most will then figure out how to clear MOC in 0 cycles. As long as they clear it, they good. And that is assuming they even care about that mode; general sentiment is many dont bother with MOC 12 since its just a small amount of jades. However, I am not against a hardcore/invested list out there for people. If enough people want it, I am down. Would be cool to see what the sweats use or consider meta and stuff. That is fair
The western community undervalues huohuo by a lot. If you watch eastern Honkai content at bilibili or any other format, all you see is huohuo being the most valuable sustainer because they tend to cater towards more endgame scenarios. Some even recommend her for Robin teams, since in average she’s able to generate more energy and further increase her atk buff than aventurine.
Thing about ruan mei and robin is though, that they're not placed in a general play tierlist like many people seem to forget, but in an moc tierlist. So while mei might be easier to use in virtually all teams, you can't deny that for a more casual player, robins action advance is more likely to make the difference between a 2 star and 3 star clear.
you dont need advance forward when enemy is dead. stop coping, robin is just not complete E0 vs Rm E0 and I have both E1. the diff is not night and day but theres a diff
For more casual players, you will run into heavy energy issues with Robin and have a 3+ turn downtime on her ult unless you happen to have a full follow up team. That's a lot of damage lost from her full potential and doesn't even come close to Ruan Mei's general use.
So robin team is highly invested meanwhile Ruan Mei team is assumed to be low invested as if people that have Ruan Mei dont build their dps on purpose huh
I can't place Robin on the same tier as Mei when it comes to the #1 support when Robin has a specific thing in her kit that benefits ONE play style (her follow up only dmg boost). It's like Ruan Mei having 4 boxes, and every DMG dealer can take from those boxes, but with Robin's 4, only 3 is available to non follow up DMG dealers......how can she be the #1 support...
Her extra buff to follow ups is pretty minimal... By that logic, non-break DPS are also not making full use of Ruan Mei's kit Or non-quantum DPS for Sparkle
But when were talking about tiers we're looking purely at their best team, don't play robin if you're not gonna put her in her teams, this is like putting kafka inside of a break effect team when she's purely DoT
I do agree Ruan mei takes the cake for number 1 because she has the same capabilites on a wider range, but when calculating, always calculate purely on their best team then go by versatility afterwards
I aint surprised Seele beats out Dan lol, i knew the numbers, numbers arent surprising. But mad respect for actually publicly stating you changed your mind within the prydwyn criteria. I dont think it needs to be argued, just shown
Dr. Ratio, Seele, and Jing Yuan belong in in the same tier. have been 3 staring moc with him from the beginning. Everything you said about how people misplay Seele applies to Jing tbh. Skill issues
JIng has some of the most expensive 0 cycles amongst all limited 5 stars (unlike Seele who generally has the least expensive) and Jing performs as badly as Seele does at low investment (and/or poor play). Seele's negatives apply to Jing but Seele's positives don't.
@@Tam-lv1mp not sure what exactly you're trying to say but Seele has had the cheapest 0 cycles (meaning least amount of 5 stars and/or limited units/LCs/eidolons) out of any DPS for every MoC except the latest one
@@Tam-lv1mp so if your a acheron main and i say seele or arlan is better and acheron will be fighting for 6th is that fact or hate it was funny before but now hes repeating it like a broken record anyways why you commenting im not gonna watch his videos anymore so winwin situation so keep quiet im not gonna reply on this comment anymore
The tierlist being no sig, f2p, topaz too high. Min 2 max 1.5😂. Pela same tier as blade in her support category is criminal. I would never assume pela in the same league as blade. Pela should sue for defamation 😅
On the Seele point, she's had basically the best gear set in the game since launch, to the point where even Jingliu gets use out of it while being a whole different element. I'm not saying she can't have zero cycled literally everything with no sig or Eidolons, but she has literally EVERYTHING at her disposal to do it and the fact it's STILL hard/requires thinking is ridiculous. Tons of extra turns, a built in support that lets her get more of those turns and use the same amount of SP as Dan and then gives 30% more attack to her than anyone else, a debuffer that'll make sure her set is always in effect, etc... Dan's basically only got Sparkle and her bottomless well of SP and is surpassing or at least "Keeping pace" with that in your mind. No great set (Musketeer and IMG just aren't it), and meh general LC cause Aeon has a condition on it to where you have to match a units weakness to get the max use out of it compared to just killing stuff with Cruising. I don't think if Dan actually got a better set, let alone a more general LC he could actually benefit from or a character that implanted IMG weakness, there'd be anymore discussion.
Umm, my E0S0 Robin helps me 0-cycle the first node in MoC12 consistantly with the IPC FUA team, lol. Her traces aren't even fully leveled yet. This is something that was impossible for me with my E1 Ruan Mei (with permanent ult uptime btw) and maxed out traces. Also, replacing Ruan Mei in sustainless 0-cycle Acheron teams makes it a cakewalk in comparison to running Ruan Mei. Don't get me wrong, I love my RM but I don't agree with your take. Robin has more potential for clearing faster at higher level gameplay.
Hoyo really did fire MC dirty with all the AOE attacks that straight up ignore the taunt (if you can taunt them at all) and tear through everyone else's shields
Idk I think putting all the harmony’s on the same tier is very fair. In ruan meis case, sure she is versatile but she is only really bis on break teams now. If she was mile ahead of people in every team or atleast very very close to others than i’d say she goes into T0 but ruan mei doesn’t even come close to sparkle in hypercarries especially those which require alot of sp, and ruan mei ain’t as good as robin in dual dps teams. In acherons case she is MILES ahead of all dps in every situation. Single target, blast and Aoe which is why she is in T0 In aventurine and fuxuan case. In terms of pure sustain they are also miles ahead of everyone else even huohuo. Although huohuo is very good because of her er and atk she gives, she can still die way way easier than a team with fuxuan and aven. She doesn’t really come close to their sustain. This is just not the case for ruan mei however because she just isn’t miles ahead in almost all situations. Also robin buffs aren’t just the same as ruan meis. They are signifcantly better especially including the team wide action adv. This is why she is balanced by her er. But even with her er, when playing at a higher skill cap there are ways to circumvent this such as running tingyun and ulting robin. There has been so many 0 cycle clears using this method that i’ve seen and its something ruan mei simply doesn’t offer.
40:59 bro wtf u talking about,pela does 40% def reduction at lvl 10 ,while sw does 45% def reduction at level 10,thats just 5% difference, how tf is it twice lol,also pela with lvl 15 ult gives 45%,nd many will hv her e6 so ye,she better than sw,her ult uptime is also better + its aoe..., Also she hella sp+,also sw needs the event lc for her ult uptime which many peeps that arent playing from day 1 wouldn't hv,while pela can work without it..
It's not twice but it's higher and it's not the only factor for the final damage output, level 12 Pela gives 42% DEF shred (as far as I know you can't reach 15 at least at the current time), SW level 10 traces gives ulti's DEF shred 45%, plus 8% from the talent, plus the 10%+3% RES PEN from skill and A6 passive, giving overall better defensive reduction for a single target, which is better in single target but Pela is better in AoE. This is reflected in the Prydwen's tier list with SW being over Pela by a small margin in MoC but much lower than Pela in PF
i believe he meant the total dmg amp. SW gets 52% def shred and 13%(+20) RES shred. thats why the "doubled dmg" thing he mentioned. i think this is what he meant
Man I agree on almost everything.. These tier list still refuse to acknowledge break characters.. Also ironically made the Yukong/Robin comparison yesterday speed tuning with both is so wonky and I have to get out of my playstyle to get the most out of them.. They need to put some respect on Break Queen Mei and Himeko
It's pretty simple you wanna take advantage of her basic atk which advances her action by 20% now her best partner rn is sparkle and sparkle advances by 50% if you use basic and then advance seele that's an extra 50% which makes it 70 basically what I'm trying to say is seele is able to get at least 2 to 3 turns without resurgence in a cycle if you use basic sometimes and not just spam skill
It's pretty simple basically her basic attack advances her action forward by 20% and let's say like her best partner is sparkle no doubt but sparkle only does 50% action advances when you use seeles basic before sparkle advances forward that's 70% bringing seele up back again for her turn using basic attacks allow you to get 2 to 3 attacks in excluding resurgence in the same cycle the problem people do is spam skill which you shouldn't do you should be using basic attack so I hope this helps
it's funny since when you talked about Mei-Robin, you took the example of low investment, of people who cant replicate amazing runs that Robin can bring to you. However, when thing came to Seele, you said she's strong if she's highly invested and played smartly. So what's your category?
Black Swan teams without Kafka do the same damage as Kafka teams without Black Swan. And Kafka is just more future proof. Kafka's damage is reliant on your dot character. So, in the event that a better dot character comes out, Black Swan will be replaced. And her def shred is only 20% and ephiphany is hard to work around.
@@albiflora i disagree, both are top tier but BS does more damage on her own, Kafka’s dot prox do significantly less damage when BS isn’t on the team. BS is especially broken in SU when you can get her stacks up quickly
@@sp-exos3517 Kafka DoT depends on other DoT capability of DMG, if another DoT character that have better DoT mecanic that does more damage realeases, then Kafka will trigger even more DMG, while Swan will not have the same advantage since Kafka can reproc 2 time + the on turn DoT proc. Swan is a Kafka DoT bot, when another flashy and stronger DoT releases Swan will be a second option.
to your argument about sw vs pela, if you dont have sw lc tutorial she's taking 2 turns to ult. if you dont have sw e1 she's taking 3 turns to ult after the first ult. pela just needs one lc and she can ult turn 1 and consistently 2 turn ult. now I have a e1 tutorial sw and yeah she's cracked but without that pela's just better. i can take them in the same tier but honestly feel like shes just better than e0 sw especially without tutorial since she just had a rerun for newer players
With the addition of HMC, I think SW brings so much more value than Pela for BE teams. Weakness Implant + Quantum Break + Loads of Debuffs that massively benefit every member of the BE team is nothing to scoff at.
@@barpeot7966 i mean sure, but pela can provide aoe def shred which can eb amazing for hmc because she can hit so many enemies, as opposed to sw who can only do big def shred to one
@@LostTrigger If we are talking BE Team then Pela's contribution is very tiny when compared to SW. For BE team if your whole team is not breaking it's a big DPS loss. If you go Pela then she only contributes to ice toughness. SW helps your other teammates break with implant, has really strong delay with Quantum element, and also basically buffs break dmg taken because of all her debuffs.
Hot take. Robin is a T1 one trick character. The one team that robin is actually fully functional in, ruan mei and sparkle can function fully in as well. She does not deserve to be on the same level as the PPG, she's basically sp useless for fuck sake as a double dps enabler being sp positive is arguably THE MOST important requirement as its more common for dps's to be sp negative than positive
I completely agree. Robin is, to me, geared for FUA. There is nothing wrong with that. We have other harmonies to fulfill other roles. It's boring using the same characters for everything. I love the idea of team building.
love the vid so far! (I’m about halfway through) and i’d love to see your characters builds because my Dan Heng (which is arguably horribly built) is slapping my Seele and Jing Liu in the face😭
What makes Seele 0 cycles even more impressive is that her eidolons are extremely mid and almost do nothing. Unlike Daniel who has some crazy number buffs from e2 and people still struggle with him
See im starting to really have a problem with the "ease of use" angle that people use for comparisons like Luocha vs Gallagher. How difficult it is for the character to do the job does not matter imo as long as they CAN do the job CONSISTENTLY enough to be considered a solid option for that job. Yes i agree, Luocha is basically an iphone camera, he heal, he heal good, and he heal easy, basically (LITERALLY) auto pilot. Gallagher is more involved, you gonna change the camera settings yourself, you gotta tweak stuff, but my god when you do the pictures are incomparable. We're talking effects and features not even possible on the iphone. I'm not gonna take the worse character just cuz they're easier to use. And for the record Luocha is an iphone 8 not a 14, bro's pictures arent even THAT good, he's outdated in terms of feature set and functions. Maybe when the next iphone healer drops and they do a lot more with as much ease as luocha then we can talk about them and gallagher, but for now? Nah. Ease of use cannot be discussed without the context of the final picture and i stand by that for any such comparisons regardless of whether they're a dps or support
