Massive WEDI Shower FAILURE (Done by Certified Installer) -- Warranty Claim DENIED 

Before you comment that the wrong sealant was used, please understand that Wedi was using Sikaflex polyurethane as the approved sealant at the time of this install. I have proof from archived websites that explain it in detail in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_skYsjFBnPM.html. The sealant they now use use is a silane based sealant similar to kerdi-fix, which performs much better in wet applications. Important to note that Sikaflex polyurethane has a manufacturer one year warranty.

I was just doing my research to perform my own shower re-tile and came across your video. Thank goodness I did. After seeing a professional job go horribly wrong, even after following all of the installation procedures set by the manufacturer, I have chosen to go with a different product. Thank you for your videos and willingness to educate us. God bless.

I am a tile contractor in Florida. I had a failure with Wedi and they denied my claim. This was on my own house. The gray cement like material delaminated off the blue closed cell foam on my shower pan causing the pan to become spongy. Wedi is a terrible company and will never back there product they will always blame it on the installer or some other factor. I am so glad to have seen this video. Thanks

Every time I see these videos I appreciate my generic one piece drop in shower/tub more and more

Sir Isaac. You are like a CSI of shower failures. Love what you do

Yes sir Isaac, I have been in the business for over 37 years and I still install the old school way. Rubber membrane and real mud. I have seen all the schutler and wedi systems at the trade shows and never bought into it. All these guys been in business for 10 years haven't had any issues with these products. All of a sudden 11 years later this guys floor is completely rotten and could have been termite infested and then some. Thanks for the video brother and keep educating the world. Al from Maryland

Wow! If you described to me as a concept of permanent waterproofing a bead of caulk between two layers of foam I'd be skeptical at best. I'm shocked that this was a popular shower pan practice. Common sense should always prevail. You've raised some questions in my mind about the 24hr test as well. Well done!!

Amazing Isaac Ostrum, you are truly a professional in every aspect. You and your personal character truly reflects on your desire to do great work, your dead ass honest! This is coming from a person, with 35 years in the field of construction. Mad respect !

1:51 you know you wanted to laugh

The extreme amount and severity of the wood rot means the water leak did not just did not start recently, more likely it's been leaking for several years. Probably started when the shower was still quite new.

I've never installed Wedi or any foam shower and thanks to this video, I never will. Thanks for sharing!

I am glad I saw this. My wife and we’re thinking of installing a WEDI system. Great video, thanks.

If you learn anything from Issac's videos, it's this: Build the shower like a roof exposed to daily thunderstorms.

I've been tiling for 30 years and Appreciate your education of all things tile you show. Including your failures . There is many videos showing incorrect installation . And your education helps people understand the proper way . Also various methods done incorrectly . Keep up the good work !!

In the Uk most of the wet room systems we use require you to build a solid frame under the floor as minimum so that all of the outer edges of the “tray” are supported. There appears to be no addition framing installed in this video to give additional support for the wedi shower tray

I know tile shower bases can be great but that depends more heavily on the installer. I went with cast iron for the shower base because it’s hard to mess that up 😅

Thank you for this video. As you took things apart I knew exactly where the water went. I agree why would you ever have so little protection from water getting thru. Once again so valuable to see these things for me. I love to learn thanks Isaac

IVE BEEN WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS FOR AWHILE NOW. IM A HANDYMAN FOR 34 YEARS AND I WATCH AND LISTEN TO YOU. IM NOT A NO IT ALL AND YOU ARE RIGHT! IT DOES NOT HURT TO BE EXTRA CAREFUL AND THOROUGH LIKE YOU ARE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST AND I WILL SUBSCRIBE NOW. MIKE

Another great video, sir. Let the truth reveal itself, we are all learning.

Man you are the Medical Examiner of failed showers. Love your work and transparency. Keep it up mate!!

I'll stick with my Oatey pvc 40 mil liner in the pan, overlapped by 6 mil plastic on the studs. I sleep good at night.

I never trusted those caulk joints, and am quite paranoid about my installs. Thank you for sharing. I am not a bit surprised. Excellent point about the soft foam pans, as well. That includes Schluter.

Excellent Info. I love how you give. your live commentary as you go. 110% agree with your assessment on where and how the failure occurred. Never never never rely on sealant of any kind as waterproofing. GREAT job Isaac!

Very nice video! Educational, honest and informative. Your way to humble dude! You are the definition of professional. 👍👍

hI iSSAC Thanks this video. I have a great deal of experience with this product and have made a lot of videos showing how to install this board. I can state categorically that his is not a product failure. The rebate (rabbit) cut is not required and neither is the caulking. The joint should be sealed with a neoprene flexible tape that will give you a perfect water seal. This will cope with movement and that is why it is specified. The contractor is out of business so, the homeowner needs to go back to the terms of the warranty. It will not fail if it is done properly so the fault lies with the installer. I agree that better training is required but I reckon the installer was trying to save $40,00 on the taoe.

Your videos are extremely helpful I do some tile work among other things in the Northeast very grateful for your time and efforts with all of this

Again, congrats for the info, I’m a certified wedi installer , I agreed that won’t look like the sealants that we use today, but after 12 year we don’t know if will still being gray. I still using the rubber liner and pre slope and wedi just on the walls. Sucks to be the homeowner. Keep up with the good work.

Its easy to not clean the rabbet cuts during prep. It gets pretty messy and then just put sealant in there. It's got to be clean. I would be hesitant to say that this is a failure because of the manufacturer. I'm pretty sure they didn't get enough coverage when they adhered the pan to the subfloor and created a hollow space, which caused the pan to deflect. The project doesn't look prepped as well as it could've been either I am a Wedi Pro installer and a CTI. Great videos! Keep it up!

Now this might just be my perspective - but my first thought is that the structure probably isn't up to snuff for a tiled shower. The joist bay that you are sitting in is MASSIVE and although the i-joists are rated for those spaces at spans - under bathrooms, I always preferred to see them cut the spacing down one level in order to give the floor more stiffness (24" to 19.2", 19.2" to 16", 16" to 12"...). It is one thing to deal with bouncy floors under tile in a kitchen - but in a bathroom it will cost tens of thousand of dollars out of pocket for something that a builder looking to cheap out on a few i-joists could have solved when the house was in framing. Granted, the tile guy should have said nope as well. Might not like the decision that WEDI came to, but just seeing that and having been in a few hundred houses over the years with similar structures...I wouldn't trust much other then a fiberglass drop in on them.

"He jerked that off" i cant stop laughing! Great videos as always Isaac ive learned so much from you

Issac -- You have such a great smile but we rarely see it. You are so professional.

Keep upsetting them. Your videos are great. The corners and edges definantly leaked. No water made it past the wedi to the Sheetrock. That proves it decent waterproofing. But the chain is only as good as the weakest link.

Another great video. This is my issue with not only wedi but some liquids as shower pans as well. You really need a monolithic transition floor to wall. Not just a sealant or topical membrane. Shifting and settling are a real things in all parts of the country.

I appreciate the details you guys get into and it only helps all of us in our industry. Good work gentleman thumbs up 👍

I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years that whole system looks Shawty to me

Thanks I was seriously considering using Wedi system in my bathroom remodel this coming summer. I definitely agree with what your saying, on the butt joint and not holding. Thanks again!

I'm curious to know if anyone has ever had their labor cost covered under warranty with a faulty shower claim. A couple of bags of mud is nothing to the cost of this repair.

Im investigating one right now. I have verified its not the plumbing. I am advising they get a Tile Contractor to investigate the Wedi install. It seems to me that there is not enough attention in these Wedi systems to make sure the water that gets below the tile layer is able to flow to the drain.

“I use a lot of common sense” lol Great quote Isaac

I really appreciate your videos, very easy and entertaining to watch; and yes I’m also a wedi guy who is NOT offended. I’m more interested in learning to expand my craft in this industry. You never stop learning.

This looks like a job for Flex Tape!

I’m a UK bathroom installer. I won’t do tiled shower pans on timber floors. I’ve done quite a few over the years but I’ve had 2 that have failed, both on timber floors. All the ones I’ve done on concrete/solid floors are fine. The problem with these systems is it only takes 1 cracked grout joint from a bit of movement and the water gets in. If the waterproofing is sound then water sits under the tiles and saturates the entire mortar bed eventually leading to mould growing out of the grout joints. If the waterproofing isn’t sound then the water has somewhere to go and just causes major wood rot. I don’t know why you guys in the US are so dead set on tiled pans when you can get solid stone effect shower trays that feel and look amazing. Best thing of all is they can’t fail.

Excellent failure analysis! As with every failure completed by a factory trained technician, the manufacturer will deny, deny, deny.

I have been installing Wedi and Schluter products as a professional for many years, both companies have great products for creating waterproof showers. Like anything else in life, if the product is not used correctly you will have problems. Adhesives and sealants need to be used properly, trying to save money by using an opened tube you had kicking around the back of your van for a few weeks is not a good idea, here in southern Ontario Canada extreme cold for installing these products during winter months can also cause issues. I like the Wedi panels for the walls because they are more rigid than the Kerdi board, but still easy to cut with a utility knife. I have never used the pre-made shower pans from either company as I find them to be too soft for my liking. As most of my work is custom, I like to create my shower pans the old fashioned way using sand and cement mix. However, I do use the Schulter drain system and install waterproofing ABOVE the concrete base with Schulter Kerdi-DS membrane and Kerdi-Band and Kerdi-Kereck-F corners to seal around the perimeter of the base and Wedi wall panels using good quality Kiesel Thinset for all of my installations. Unfortunately for this home owner, my guess is that Wedi did not warranty because they found that the product was not installed correctly.

Just because someone has a license, that doesn't mean shit.

Even before these videos, I never considered any of these gimmicky waterproofing products. Concrete board (only whole pieces with tight joints) and silicone all joints including corners). Concrete floor with PVC liner or premade acrylic floor pan only. My two cents as a 30 year carpenter that dives into the occasional washroom reno/upgrade. Love my tiling hobby and matching furniture.

I use and love the wedi boards. But for pans I either sand pack my own or use the Schluter foam pan with a double layer of the Kerdi. Kerdi Band then wraps up onto the Wedi wall, then Redguard on the seams.

I've been tiling 25 years and I'm so glad i never tried this garbage. .

Hi Isaac... I used Wedi sealant recently and also about 10 years ago. I can tell you for sure it's not white. It's a medium dark gray. That's not Wedi sealant and that channel should be packed with sealant. Due to a mistake on the first job years ago, I had to pull a piece of the board away where two boards are sealed together. Holy shit, that stuff sticks to the foam like crazy. It rips the foam apart. I feel confident in saying that is not Wedi's sealant and it looks more like they used some caulk from Lowes.

This is a great example not to have a tile anything. Had a new tub put in with a well made tub surround. No more cleaning grout lines and mold

Thank you for making this video. I've installed a few of these but have switched back to mortar pans with bonding flange drains and sheet membranes after noticing the foam pans would dent easily when unprotected. I would use the cardboard from the pan box and a piece of 2 inch rigid foamboard to work off of only exposing the pan prior to floor tiling. Was curious about joist spacing and subfloor thickness of this shower and whether the joist depth and connections are rated for seismic activty as you said. Seems like common sense to beef up load carrying capacities of floor system and make current connections between framing members before putting 1/2 ton of mortar and tile on top of them. Excess movement will case failure in most sytems over time. The Wedi sealant Ive been supplied with is a grey modified polyurethane and I learned after bedding joints to spread a 1/2 inch bead with a plastic wing tool from 1 1/2 to 2 inches on both sides of inside corners 2 times. These two steps are supposed to strengthen the joint but apparently this is not the case. Your work here has proven to be very sobering indeed. Much appreciated.

I have been watching all manufacturers videos on shower assemblies with foam boards, and still can’t persuade my mechanical mind that TV packaging grade polystyrene foam with some fleece and sealed by mortar or adhesive can build robust shower stale situated at 2nd or 3rd floor of stick frame house we have in America and will last decades. It may be enough at grade level where you either have concrete slab or your load bearing walls built with 2x6 or 2x8, as you climb higher, walls get thinner and more prone for flex and drift due to temperatures. The only exception may be if you built your custom house and exceeded construction standards. Either way, Those shower systems answer ANSI requirements that allow mechanical give up to 1/16”. This implies that your shower should be rather large to spread contraction/expansion load over more surface to compensate for seasonal dimensional give. In this video shower area rather small 3x4ft, back wall was double layered (not sure why, perhaps contractor thought drywall will server as temperature barrier, or Wedi presolpe was undersized, either way, all it mean that longer screws has to be used, so more roam room for Wedi wall board) Sheetrock has different temperature drift cycle, Wedi board different, and mortar with tile different. Also, bench was installed, which likely added on number of seams, which are temperature breaking points, getting all this combined you can imagine amount friction happening behind tiled surface, all this was just time bomb in my view.

I feel really bad for the homeowner. So much damage.

This video makes me feel better about my apartment bathroom I ripped apart. The more I rip apart the more stuff I need to fix though.....

The former owners of our house had a Wedi shower installed around 12-15 years ago which we just had fail. We have no idea who the installer was - and it's probably a good thing because this failure was due to extreme negligence on the installer's part. The wall was cut too short and tried to use wedi urethane to make up the difference. We had an inch and a half thick rope of wedi urethane around the base of the shower. He also 'adapted' the plumbing on the drain and self-modified wedi parts by slicing off everything and using a rope of caulking the size of my thumb to attach the wedi drain to the P trap....with some other weirdness mixed in for good measure.

Tell your installer to over build. He will say that you don't need to. tell him that you always buy extra insurance.This is noce Roman stone tile.I would cry in my car if I had to deal with this in my home.stay strong man.

I'm still amazed that anyone thinks that putting drywall in a shower, no matter what it's covered with, is a good idea

Ah the charm of unfinished basement. You can see little problems before they get out of hand. A water stain on the kitchen ceiling isn't as good but at least you catch things before the structure rots out.

Flexable foam shower walls and 250lb guy day in day out. What could go wrong. LOL. I thought my concrete board was light.

I love your analysis! You are true professional!

What you showed in this video, no homeowner should ever go through. My observations even though it’s hard to tell from the video, few things did caught my eye. This type of shape of shower would’ve been much easier to do traditional mudpan, than WEDI and most likely cheaper also. WEDI pans come in squares and rectangles, meaning the installer had to cut this pan to fit perfectly into that opening which can be tricky and if he was off at any of those angles that could’ve created a problem. If you ever worked with WEDI sealer you’d know it doesn’t just “delaminate” that stuff you can rip off even if you wanted to. Another problem, I didn’t see any fiberglass tape at all the corners connecting floor and wall and sides. when you connect wall board to floor pan you squeeze extra sealant out and add more if needed than use a square spread tool to spread sealant couple inches on both side and run a fiberglass tape into corners. That secures both sides and keeps them together even if there’s a large settlement. Isaac run a test with it even for your self, WEDI sealant is crazy strong, I just can’t believe that it just delaminated, there must be more to that story. Either bottom pan wasn’t properly installed to subfloor and there was a “play” which in time tore them apart, or those panels weren’t installed correctly. It would’ve been nice to see how bench was assembled, but it just looks wrong. I would’ve made square shower corner and installed wedi type corner shower in already installed WEDI shower. That would be the correct way to do that. Also we didn’t see drain assembly which can leak if not properly installed and another very important is curb, we didn’t see. Thank you for your videos, they help me to pay more attention at certain things at work on daily bases. And don’t feel bad pointing out things that are clearly failed, we all who do this for living need to see them. Sorry for the long ramble.

Here in Norway for the Wedi system where floor meets we use a membrane tape and tape all joints, inner and outer corners then apply two coats of liquid membrane over all of the tape.

I became a Wedi certified installer in 2007 have put a few systems in at first then I started to see some flaws in the system like no attachment to the wall and floor except for basically caulk . The adhesive I have seen in both white and grey , I always assumed they changed to a different adhesive or different manufacturer. When we see changes like that I get nervous. I don't use this system anymore or ones like it because of the same reasons Isaac mentioned . It's important to not that as our industry moves forward we will see changes it's up to us to determine if we wish to change with it. A warranty is only good if the company or the manufacturer is still around , and it has been my experience that the manufacturer more than likely will deny the claim so it almost always lands on the company or installer the put it in.

That's one reason I like a fiberglass shower base or composite base. There's less chance of leaking and I like the look.

Added text -- Does home owners insurance policy cover it ? Tile guy no longer in business, wedi walked away. ? Two gentleman on here in the comments did state they believe the wrong sealant was used / wrong silicone caulk. What recourse does the home owner have. someone correct me if I am wrong , so we can learn from each other, and help our clients, so our clients dont have live under such circumstances and we can help them out. Ok - my point,,, from what I was recently informed ,, slow deterioration, like the plywood , joist, and walls are not covered , under any of the following home owner's policy 1-2,3,5,6 even though the damage was hidden, I thought this was morally wrong , but in this new direction society, under these types of policies, this is not covered. I don't know if there is any type of extra endorsements homeowners can get added to there policy to get this covered. We need help and advice from an insurance company, please no guessing here, only professionals in the industry, that is willing to educate many. Who knows you might pick up a few clients here for your input, and professional advice, even hook up with Mike and do a collaborative Video together. this information would help all, --- we could help protect our own property, --- our families and loved ones properties as well. As stated above -- A future Video with an insurance company would be a great Video with thousands of hits, as many face this type of problem and deleama. Your videos are great, the way you dicected the wall and its complete system with its components was great, with so much information. Mike you have a great channel and wish you great success. .

Information and knowledge........ 100% great video. ..we got to feel bad for the home owner that thought he was getting a good deal.

Wedi sealant is Grey and is a proven product. In your Video you mentioned the caulk is wht. Proof the builder did not use correct sealant. Builder/ installer is liable...

as someone who sells wedi in a tile store, this is of great concern. Very surprised wedi denied the claim wtf

Im gonna build an outdoor shower after watching this, Im done with it lol

Had someone quote a mud pan for me in the middle of our conversation his phone rings and he pulls out a Nokia with antenna 🤣I swear they stuck in the stone age

I think we should stick to what works; the basic traditional mud work .then water proof. Like hydro ban.etc. Isaac I appreciate what you do . You care and have a passion for tile work. When you have a change look up Michael Byrne videos yes they are dated, but he’s work will last. Now he is a consultant for tile industry. I go buy his teaching. But keep up great work👍

This is one of the reasons why I don't particularly like topical waterproofing because if there is a shift in the house foundation it could crack down in the corners of the pan and then you're going to have a problem. It's so important to get the perimeter of the pan sealed really tight.

Looks to me like the floor was not super stiff and the sealant flashed before they put the walls on the pan, thus not sticking.

I refitted my bathroom out in 2006 using wedi all round. On the walls and floor with a fundo shower. The wall to floor joints should be taped with their neoorene tape and not sealant because the sealant will fail with slight movement. The tape will accept a much higher amount of movement. I've not had a single problem in all those years and when I refurbished my kitchen, I replaced the ceiling which is below the shower and the joists were bone dry. This job looks like it wasn't done properly. Wedi is a good product but like anything it will only work if it's done properly. Also, I didn't notch out my shower tray. I don't know about the US but here in the UK it's not advertised as being an easy product to install.

My father built a shower in his basement using cement and tile floor, waterproof paint and sealant on the cinder block walls, and while it looks horribly out of date, it never leaked in over 40 years.

Star tile needs to patten his system. Because he claims his is better than any manufacturer, and in 20+ years. he never had a failure. I call bs on that. Issac has shown us that no system is absolutely fail proof. Thanks, Tile Coach, for showing the truth and continuing to spread awareness and knowledge. Anyone who quits learning and getting better is definitely doomed for failure.

Installation instructions state to put a 1/2" bead of sealant in the rabbit joint, insert the 1/2" wedi board into rabbit. Then you are required to use a trowel to strike that joint. After the shower is completed they are then required to come back and add a 1/2" bead of sealant to all seams. Then strike that. It appears to me that the 2nd bead of sealant was never applied otherwise we would of seen that sealant going in both directions towards the drain, and also towards the rabbit channel in the walls.

Issac thank you for your honest opinion about WEDI, I think the reason for this problem is due to insufficient quantity of sealant used in the dado recessed connection of wall to pan and also not adequate seam of 1/8 inch thick x two inch wide along the perimeter of the pan and wall board. I also think WEDI may be aware of some installment difficulties since they make a One-Step pan system with a lip which I prefer but it is in limited sizes which works for new construction but seems never to be the right size for remodeling. After reading your post, I wil consider using prefab pans which have a lip.

When I started using the Wedi system about 10 years ago the sealant that was recommended was made by Sika, the tube said Sikaflex, it was a grey ureathane sealant. It was also solvent based (mineral spirit cleanup). A few wears later the tubes were marked "WEDI" but the sealant was still grey. It could be possible the installer used the wrong sealant (maybe water based) To save some money. Almost all of the Wedi pans I installed needed to be cut down to fit the drain/opening layout. That required a new rabbit to be cut into the priemeter of the pan. that rabbit was always filled with sealant before the wall panel went in, making sure that the sealant flowed up and out onto the pan and wall board, then another bead was applied and troweled with the corner trowel. I don't know if Sikaflex was white before 2011, but the first time I used a ureathane sealant ( around 2010 solvent based) it was grey. I am thinking the installer used the wrong sealant to start with.

This is why I use fiberglass floor pan.

Love your videos and commend you for your detailed insight on proper and quality workmanship. One thing Id like to point out. The floor structure. Looks like 24" OC TGI joists and only one joists lands in the layout of the shower pan without any supporting joists at the perimeters. With a single layer of 3/4" t&g decking (maybe it's 1-1/8"?) that would certainly cause a lot of movement. But, if youve been to a WEDI seminar, this is exactly what they preach it is designed to do, move. Not that I agree. We normally open our floors up for drain placement anyway and at that time add additional cross blocking around the drain and perimeters, sometimes adding new joists where needed. Also, the major area of damage seems to be near the bench. How was the bench wall board connection to the pan and pan designed around that bench? Curious I'm no advocate and don't want to preach a product that may have flaws, which almost every product does. But we are certified and have installed these system. On the installs we have done, we have took extra steps and used waterproof membrane adhered with thinset to the floor and 6 inches up the walls before installation. Not something Wedi requires, just an extra step. Like back caulking a trim board, window or similar when dealing with water penetration and envelope. Also, additional floor blocking, pan backed blocking where the wall boards meet the pan etc.. I can't say definitively without seeing it myself whether there was some sort of installation error or product failure but don't wish this on any homeowner or contractor. If this is a product failure at the joints from prolonged movement with the proper installed sealant, Id sure like to know about it. That is what every argument is against these products.

If a shower pan leaks it will almost always fall back to the installer. I rarely see a manufacturer stand up and take responsibility for a shower pan failure. As an installer I always second guess the manufactures instructions and then fall back on my experience to install a leak proof shower pan. Relying on a caulking joint scares the heck out of me, would never go there.

2007 there was no warranty over 10 years. The Pro Warranty came out much later maybe 2016? And that was a 15 or 20 warranty. Also Wedi has never had white sealant

I just have to say I have never used Wedi for my showers but I use Laticretes shower system. That type of sealant actually "welds" itself to the foam. If its similar to laticretes sealant theres no way you could pull two pieces of sealed foam apart at the seam, you would rip the foamboard before that happened. My theory is the wrong sealant was used, Wedi sealant back then was not sufficient in adhering the foam together properly or the contractor did not perform that step correctly (dust in the joint preventing adhesion possibly). Then again maybe this is the long term effect of these foam systems coming to light. Who knows? Time will tell.

I’m having anxiety after watching this video. I just finished installing the Wedi pan, walls and curb and sealing all the screws/washers, joints and corners. Ceiling tiles are up. Planning to start tiling the walls in a few days. Now I’m thinking about putting another layer of sealant at the joints.

Failure by design, there should be a class action.

A contractor wanted me to install one of those Foam shower pans... I told him to find another tile installer. I don't trust it... and now you see

Hey now, there are some good handymen out there. PVC liner and redgard in every one of my showers.

Great Video Isaac, I’m in the UK and just installed a Wedi pan. In the UK instructions it doesn’t mention at all to to do a rebate in pan if putting tile backer boards around it what you do get is a sealing kit made from two components like Kerdi Coll that is available in the UK for my safety I’ve also pre sealed the joints with a product called C-Tec CT1 before using the wedi sealing kit. Time will tell if it fails.

Wow!! They must have done something wrong.I have a video testing Wedi sealant and there board.It held water 30 days no problem. But yes if there is a lot of movement of the structure over time,something has to give.

Good one Isaac. That is why I refuse to use any other products. Other than shluter. So far they have been the best so far.

I've been using Wedi for over 15 years and even then the company supplied their own sealant and warned against using other products. While I've seen hotmops fail, none of my Wedi installations did. In Mike's case obviously a lot of cheap shortcuts were taken, starting with leaving the old greenboard in and creating a Wedi filler board (instead of demoing all of it properly down to the studs) to using cheaper Sikaflex instead of pricey Wedi sealant. This has been probably leaking from the get go (a 24h water test wouldn't detect a small leak, you know that) and pointing to all that timber damage is good youtube sensationalism, but is nothing but to be expected if it's been leaking for over ten years due to an installer who didn't know what he was doing or did't care. Why is he out of business....

Tile contractor 20 years... Mud guy. Was about to make the switch to the kits. To speed things up. I had my concerns and this video confirms I won't be switching. For a guy who hates his job I do enjoy your video all the way from Jersey. I haven't disagreed with you yet 😂😂...

thats why i dont care about manufacturer warranties, they have salaried goobers that will weasel their way out of every claim.

Materials and Methods have far improved the last 15 yrs.

I am sitting here watching this video and your assumptions are really bad. I am a certified WEDI installer and have spent untold hours with the reps whenever I have questions. Here are some places where I disagree with you. 1. The pan is soft - We have NEVER seen any flexing in a shower pan. We have reinforced plywood floors BEFORE installing if we felt they were flexing. That is not a WEDI problem. And to say that you like hot mop pans? They cure hard and when you get seismic movement (your term), they crack. I saw a few of those after the 1994 Northridge earthquake. 2. Caulk - WEDI does NOT advocate caulking the joints. He said this was done in 2007 (13 years ago) and we were starting to use WEDI around that time. Any sealant from the company has always been grey. We were trained to use the sealant to connect the pan to the walls and then to apply an additional band of sealant that overlapped onto the floor and wall. We typically use a 6" broad knife for this and our band extends 3-4" on both planes. 3. Joint - where you show the wall/floor joint, there is NO sealant. Whenever we have bonded two pieces together, whether on the wall or a connection between two sheets, once cured it does not come apart. 4. Your issue with delamination at the floor/wall joint could have been caused by floor flexing, incorrect sealant or as simple as dirt in the joint (we always clean our joints after cutting and way overfill the rabbet. I would be sending those to WEDI for testing but everything I am seeing under the tile is installer error. 5. Pan installation - this might be the root cause of the problem and again, this is installer error and not WEDI. WEDI requires the installer to thinset the pan to the floor, regardless of whether it is concrete slab or plywood. There is none there and that would allow the pan to flex. No different that the same failures I see from floor backerboard failures when the installer does not thinset the panels to the floor or use enough screws/nails. 6. Conclusion - In my view, you are plain wrong. I am not a paid shill for WEDI; I just like their products. This failure is caused by nothing more than installer errors and it is unfair for you to negate a product that you are not familiar with. Take some WEDI classes and talk to the company reps. BTW, I have over 35 years in the tile industry and have written two books with my partner. I, too, have REAL WORLD experience and failures related to products are extremely rare. I have done forensic work and worked with the Ceramic Tile Institute and the vast majority of failures are attributed to not following instructions.

Here in the UK, and I think much of Europe, the bases of showers are usually solid one-piece ceramic or resin castings, like a shallow bath. Seem much less likely to fail. Why is tiling the bottom of showers so common in the US?

I'm just a DIY dummy and I would never use a foam product to support something like tile in a bathroom. That does not compute in my head!

Been a CA licensed tile contractor since TileCoach was running around on his tricycle, and have nothing but immense respect for this and his other videos that put the focus clearly on quality, integrity, and durability of the tile-installation process. Of note: Isaac, at the end of the video you say, as if to apologize in advance, that this video will upset some installers. Honestly, you don't need to throw out that qualifier---you're highly experienced and qualified, and based on the basic, essential, factual info in your video it's 110% reasonable to say that the Wedi "process" required by Wedi included use of a defective (caulk) product. That point doesn't need or require an apology, and any installers/contractors offended by it are likely not worth their salt.

was i bit fearful when i read the title i fit these wedi pans and always recommend them, there not so quick or easy to install. the trays need complete coverage so the sub-base needs to be made completely solid flat and level before fitting, with a stable resin bonded ply (marine) base with expansion joints around perimeter, osb or chinese ply is no good you need a dimensionally stable backing, glue lam floors joists flex to much and will need extra support, the drain needs to be precisely solid set in screed within the subfloor before fitting else the drain area has no support and will fail, extra support and modifications to the sub-wall are also required like with kerdi board adding extra studs levelling and noggins etc, to waterproof you need to use proper band and two part adhesive or i use kerdi band and coll, honestly believe if done properly this system is far superior to any other, but in reality the wedi system requires considerable more labour and expense compared to a mortar pan, the advantage is if fitted properly you can have completely fail-proof system especially with a four sided fall tray and the dimensional accuracy makes them great for large format, iv seen videos by Seb and home repair where they fit these pans straight over sagged damaged osb flooring, then leave a massive gap in the sub-base where the drain is located, then waterproof seal the perimeter edges with a tube of caulk this is all wrong, its almost impossible for the wedi trays to fail only the installation and sub-base can fail, wedi will claim either the drain wasn’t solidly set in screed and the pan broke or the subbase wasn’t structly sound or dimensionally stable causing movement that damaged the waterproofing, or the incorrect waterproofing was used