See 15:06 as we roll it back to the flop to show how the bet/3bet sizing could have played out. Yes a bet/3bet is strong but with a flush draw on board we still get a lot of calls from top pair. We also maintain betting lead and get to size later streets more effectively to get stacks in.
I had a similar hand yesterday and was unsure of best betting line. The main difference was the flop was KT6 and did not contain a flush draw. How would this flop change the suggested line? As we do need to worry about KT especially as there are less draws he can be re-raising with.
It's just very weak when an opponent same bets or smaller on the turn. I think you can check raise in a lot of spots vs opponents that do that and take down the pot with bluffs.
These days online, after strong flop action, I am seeing a lot of tiny Turn bets with both strong value (trying to induce xr) and with weaker (pot controlling) hands. What to do?
Why would a hand like KJ call a 3 bet on flop, though? What's he ever beating? You're ahead of no worse K, you're barely beating combo draws that very, very, very rarely 3 bet at 2/5 anyway and you're drawing almost dead against KQ, AK, KK and AA.
Bart is a good, thinking player, but he's clearly lost touch with the reality of low stakes poker. Even fish know to fold when you start bending their fingers backwards.
@@pot_kivach160 I just don’t understand why your playing style would change depending on the amount of money you’re playing for. EV doesn’t change based on how much money you’re playing for
4:31 Talking about 3-betting the flop vs hands like Kxhh, A3hh and A4hh but hero is barely ahead of those hands. The only reason to 3-bet is if V has a fair chunk of Kx hands to offset the times that V does have 55/22.
what do you mean: _barely ahead of those hand_ ?? He is ahead by a mile. 3-bet is a right move. (denies him pot odds, and removes bluff option later). However, does V have those speculative hands? ?? A set, which is very likely, would clean H stack in no time (drawing dead 99.5% of time!!). So, yes: NO 3-bet is an (sound) option here.
I don’t really understand why they completely discounted 55 or 22. Villain limped pre-flop, raised flop, bet turn and called the raise. That’s gonna be a set at least a decent percentage of the time
Probably because of the flop raise size and turn bet size. Especially in live play, 55 and 22 are likely raising 3.5-4x on flop rather than 2.5x, and not going for ~1/3 pot on a brick turn but rather at least 2/3 to 3/4.
I think the combination of the turn raise and river jam make it difficult to get called. Think w the player doing the $125 flop and turn bet I use his own recipe and bet the same amount on the river as the turn raise and expect to get called 100% of the time.
Question, i play alot of online (have been for almost 10 years now) which i know is different than live but i noticed your same bet comment which I definitely agree is weakness most of the time. The tell i never see talked about is down betting which is probably less of a thing live bc the bet sizing is less structured and exact live. I rarely see someone double barrel going 2/3 pot and then going less than 2/3 on turn., Somewhere from 1/2 pot to 60% pot is almost always weakness. Is that read accurate or just a lower stake thing i play between 35 & 70NL 6 handed regular tables ( i'm in canada and the site i play is in euro's). I'm curious the higher the stakes if that becomes less of a tell I do recognise stack depths plays a part if its a 3 bet pot and the sizing on turn is down bet is set up to leave a descent river size but but that to me is the exception not the rule Would love to hear some thoughts.
I think the way this played out is probably at the high end of available value, but when the button "same-bets" on the turn, I don't know if I would have the intellect to just call that, feels like an opportunity to set up for a 1/2 or 1/3 pot sized bet on the river to give villain odds to call with top pair. I'd be thinking about how to raise that turn-bet in a way that gets SPRs so I can make a 1/2-pot sized bet that gets villain mostly-in.
The river did not really surprise me here. The villain is beating air only. I wish there had been a discussion on flop about call donking, but only 3 betting or call checking are discussed. That would be the real difference in how I'd have played this versus how Nate actually played it. I'd have called the raise to 125 on flop, but I would not have checked turn. I'd have donked for about 240.
I agree. I like donking turn for 250ish and then going like 425 on the river to get crying called by weaker kings. Unless villain is a massive calling station, you just don't get called enough on the river by taking this line. I also don't want to give villain the opportunity to check back a heart draw on the turn.
So, villain had a K but didn't have the K of hearts which is what I thought. I figured if he had KQ, KJ, Kx of hearts he would have bet larger on the turn. I'm not entirely convinced villain has KQ or even KJ. I think he might be weaker with K10. If villain is calling the check raise on the turn, then he's calling the 705 shove on the river with KQ.
I don’t understand the river jam at all. You think he call with KQ of hearts after you raise the turn. I can see getting a little value but you only getting called by jamming by hands that beat you. Wasn’t played well at all, imo. I’d rather jam on turn than river.
@@hickoryst.6961 I’d have to replay it all again, but I was trying to make decisions during the hand. I think the flop bet is right on. I may have re-raised on the flop but maybe not. Depending on my read of the villain. I put him on KQ hearts. I feel like hero knew he was supposed to not check river so went 1.5x the pot or so. Have to rewatch to make sure, maybe way off. But I think only way to make money is to value bet. Feels like hero just didn’t want to check and took the thinking out of it. Scared of getting reraised and costing himself money. I really don’t see how anything losing to him calls that bet. KX should be not much more than a bluff catcher imo.
@@hickoryst.6961 Sorry. I was in a drive thru and listening while driving. I had the size of the pot way off after the turn. I can understand the jam. Anything between $400-$700 hard to find much fault with imo. I mean the jam might be a little much. Ideally I would rather raise a little more on turn to get it to 50-60% pot on river but in real time it isn’t nearly what I thought.
If I thought the Villain had a K. I would have a hard time not wanting to jam the River just like Nate did. Unless I kind of knew the player and thought he would make a nitty fold of KJ or lower. I would expect KQ to make the call. Otherwise Bart's 475$ sounded perfect. But I don't blame the caller for doing what he did. I would have also been super disappointed when i saw that K flashed as he folded. I too HATE missing value in any way.
What hand does KQ beat on the river here? Does villain suspect Nate up front jams a busted AXhh here? I suppose many will feel it's too nitty to fold KQ here, but I don't think it will be good here very often. Now against a LAG, that's different, but I doubt Nate's image is as a LAG.
when hero raises turn that’s never a bluff and will never be strictly a flush draw after calling flop raise I think that’s quite an easy fold for villain on River I think calling turn and open ripping River after the hearts missed is a lot more effective and will get called
Tbh whatever he did if it is 3bet flop or check/raise turn it is extremely strong to me. I would be shocked to potentially see AK only. Ofc my perspective is online i just once played live
really? you have only played live 1? Online and live really are incredibly different. But in the end, it's all just betting and calling. Do you live in the middle of now where and don't have any access to live games? what about home games, no one does that around you? or do you just love to convivence of online poker? I personally don't think it's healthy to be able to gamble on the toilet or with no pants on.
If this guy thinks he can steal the betting lead with a draw by x/raising flop, he's in for world of bad news on the turn. Check in flow on the turn?? Never.
My thoughts exactly. At least hero check raised turn, but I personally don't like risking him checking back and then giving up on river if we fire big, which we'd have to do since we got no value on the turn and didn't build a pot.
I don’t understand the river jam at all. You think he call with KQ of hearts after you raise the turn. I can see getting a little value but you only getting called by jamming by hands that beat you. Wasn’t played well at all, imo.
you know, when stuck alone in a trench with one single gun, and no way out, you jumped out and start shooting everything that moves and not moves. If there's nobody, you are relived, and if there is a squadron of warriors, you're dead anyway, quickly, so won't feel the pain. That's what H did when jammed river.
