I first heard Megan speak on Relatables with Allie Beth Stuckey. I consider her the only Christian at Daily Wire but really admire them more now for supporting her work.
Thank you for this Interview Jon! It was great to see Megan interact with someone who’s been tracking down the church’s current issues for several years. 🎉
I did. Ortlund is clearly in the wrong and has deceived a lot of people. His mild mannered, "nice guy" persona is deceiving people. I read the book and watched his video. She was very fair with him. He ought to apologize for trying to discredit the most important book written in recent memory.
I don't think fabricating a quote that misrepresented what he said is ok. He encouraged everyone to watch his old video which shows he's not afraid of people checking out what he really said for themselves. (I also watched his old video and he did NOT make environmental issues on par with salvation issues)
Listening to Gavin Ortlund's rebuttal video it is interesting to note that he explains climate change from 60 million years ago🤔. Trust in the science even from before creation?
Gavin Ortlund clearly believes he has been totally misrepresented in the book. If this is true it cast doubt on the integrity of the rest of the book and she needs to retract what she said and he is undoubtedly owed at least an apology that would need to be made public and shown on all platforms that are promoting the book. Maybe Megan could be asked to respond to what Gavin says? Here is link to what he had to say about being mentioned in the book. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--3ClEkfP8pM.htmlsi=CUUoddQSPMrs2lPD
@TheThreatenedSwan If she has lied then yes, a retraction and apology are warranted. Ortlund is on staff with Russel Moore however. That makes me doubt anything he does. Moore is a libelous stain on the church.
There's an enormous amount of spiritual warfare here. No doubt, the spiritual forces of darkness are desperate to discredit this important work. Basham expertly exposes a tremendous amount of evil. This is a book that every Christian needs to read. It ought to be a turning point in the evangelical world as we become aware of these wolves and drive them out of our institutions. And yet, people keep bringing up Ortlund, even though it's already been well-established that he represented her fairly. Why? Because he comes across as a super nice guy? Is it possible that he's out lying about her to try to draw fire away from Russel Moore, who is on staff with him at a Nashville church? We have to have more discernment than this. Just because he comes across as super nice doesn't mean he is. Look at what he's actually said and who is telling the truth here. Hint: he's not such a nice guy after all.
@@jaredhageman4986 I see a great amount of spiritual warfare as well, but not in the same vein as you seem to. The division is the attack. The thrust of the criticism of Basham is not so much in the substance of her claims but the spirit of those claims. She seems to be out to start fights rather than correct fellow believers in a spirit of grace. I should emphasize "seems to" because I do not know what is in her heart. But regardless, we either have Gavin being deceptive and manipulative, Megan being divisive and manipulative, both of those or neither and confusion is causing strife. Spiritual Warfare is indeed occurring here.
Megan does a great job in her interviews and talks. I am reading the book now and it is very enlightening. It highlights situations that I did not know about but am not the least bit surprised by. It is one of those rays of light that breaks through and makes sense of a whole host of facts.
Here is Gavin Ortlund's response in regard to Megan's misrepresentation of him in her book. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--3ClEkfP8pM.htmlsi=J_g6NcFQCHPJvzI8
The misrepresentation of Gavin Ortlund unfortunately calls into question much of the rest of this book. An author has to be very careful when they name names and characterize them as sell outs to the left agenda without discussing the issues with them first. I have just finished the book and while much of it is without doubt true especially as concerning funding, yet I am left wondering if it is entirely accurate. Some people mentioned have been possibly unfairly blacklisted.
This is my thought exactly. I've been listening to Gavin about as long as I have been listening to John. I have not read this book, but if what Megan published about Gavin is true ( as referenced in his rebuttal podcast), then I cannot take anything else said in the book as true unless this egregious misrepresentation is addressed.
@nancywenger2025 Gavin, pastor of a small church in California at the time, with a modest RU-vid following, who mainly posts videos on protestant/catholic differences, discusses early church father's, has a ministry basically centered on theological differences between protestants, catholics, and orthodox, who emphasizes charity between believers, gets a short opinion piece on his thoughts on climate change 2 years ago landing him in a book entitled Shepherds for Sale. This is the definition of absurdity. I am very conservative, theologically and politically. I do not share Dr. Ortlunds views on climate change. In the chaos of comments being thrown about, our witness is damaged. In Megan's desire to expose true sellout pastors, she has slandered the reputation of a man of faith.
The huge number of unequivocal buyers of Ortlund’s defense in this comment thread has a very astroturfed stench to it. For anyone reading the 75 comments that all match the same thesis, she’s covered all his rebuttals on Twitter -with receipts for many and a clear explanation that a particular paragraph in question obviously wasn’t about him, but a was chapter summary referencing a number of folks mentioned in the chapter.
@@lalumierehuguenote she’s demonstrated multiple times on X that not only was it in context, but there have been additional times he’s said the same things. she’s backed up every claim she’s made, and none of his punches have landed, despite the army of commenters making vague, similar, unspecified and unsubstantiated claims here.
Megan should consider engaging in a conversation with Gavin Ortlund about the comments she made about him in chapter 1. Seems to me that she misrepresented him quite egregiously.
@hannahmcmillan5712 She took his quotes out of context in order to twist their meaning and present him as saying that Christians must come to the same views as him or they're not smart or not Christian. Ironically, that's actually what she's doing by treating him this way for one video on climate change that departs from the politically conservative party line. Ortlund is a solid teacher and pastor, so I blame Basham's mistake on intellectually lazy ghost writers as much as anything else. Who knows if she did her own research or even watched his video. You can watch the video yourself and watch Gavin's video responding to Basham's book.
Hope her book shakes the church of laziness and they will start studying the Bible for themselves in some gatherings the pastors have become 'Little gods'
Why is so many here getting worked up on a very small part of her book. What about the many well known pastors and groups that she shows with clear evidence, that has agendas not in line with the gospel. Trying to take the focus away from the horrible truths staring you right in the face.
I love Gavin but his rando, left-field vids/posts on climate change demonstrates one of her thesis statements.....he is not named as a 'wolf' but leaders can be affected by wolves (who HAVE infiltrated the church), leaders are not immune to propaganda, and propaganda is harmful.....just ask any kid in a leftist school if they think they will survive 'climate change'....I've seen multiple young people say they want to off themselves because they are so scared of this alarmism. When I was a kid we had 'acid rain'....they use it to create a voting block. Leaders need to educate themselves on the techniques of propaganda and audit themselves to ensure they are not relaying propaganda to the sheep.
That's not true at all. His integrity is in question, not hers. I've read the book and seen his video. I even re-read that part of the book after seeing his video. She obviously told the truth about him and was very fair. Just because he presents himself as a nice guy doesn't mean he is.
“[Gavin’s] insistence that those who holds views that differ from his can be doing so only because they are motivated by politics or haven't hit the books." - This is a lie, as he does not and has never insisted that which she claims. “But it is wrong for [pastors] to make agreement on environmental policies a test of biblical faithfulness. It is wrong to make to make climate change activism a measure of one's commitment to the Gospel." - This is at minimum a lie of omission, as by placing it with the larger discussion of Gavin she either (a) lies about the weight he attributes to climate change activism and the gospel (since he doesn’t believe climate change activism is paramount to the gospel) or (b) intentionally obfuscates between Gavin (who the last 6-7 pages of the book Elster dedicated to) and these other “unrelated” pastors to the point of deceit. Gavin has never asserted that agreement on environmental policies is a test of biblical faithfulness. To say so is to bear false witness, to speak with a lying tongue that God hates. Christians have a moral obligation to call out liars, even when they are those we look up to - try reading again, maybe you’ll get it the 3rd time.
Orlund pushed old earth evolutionary theory, local flood, monkey's with Genesis 1-11, etc...he is not a theological conservative...He thinks atheistic scientific research is neutral without bias
@@jaredhageman4986no, he didn’t do that at all. She completely misrepresented and lied about what he actually said. It’s very sad that she hasn’t bothered to talk to him directly about, or apologize when she was clearly in the wrong.
@@LilyGirl02 You argue that she was "clearly in the wrong." I haven't seen that. I read her book, watched his climate change video, then re-read the portion of the book that was about him. Can you please show me the exact statement she made that was false? I've asked a lot of people that question and the best anyone has been able to do is cite her words on page 30, which are not about him at all. But you seem confident in your assertion, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you've got.
@@jaredhageman4986well said, I listened to the video and read that portion of the book. His video turned out to be worse than I expected it to be even going as far as to gaslight believers into putting pro life on the same sphere. If anything, she went easy on him imo. She has nothing to apologize let alone repent for. Also, has Gavin repented for pushing the jab?
Jon, personally have been blessed by your dedication to fighting the social justice gospel. Expecting you to respond to the Ortlund-Basham controversy in a faithful, rigorous and Christian way.
@@JDJ616I watched his video and read the portion of the book she spoke about him. The video to me was actually worse than I expected from what I read in her book. Can you give a specific example how she slandered him? I thought she went easy on him if anything. Equivocating climate change and pro-life imo is evil. Has Gavin repented of encouraging the jab?
@@th6252 repented?!? Lol 🤣 It's a political opinion. Christians of good faith can agree to disagree on political opinions. Whether or not to take the jab has nothing to do with biblical orthodoxy. I disagree with him politically but I respect him as an apologist. I do not respect people who manipulate quotes, or defend those who do.
If he does not need repenting for encouraging the jab then by what measure does Megan need to repent, she’s presenting info based on hard evidence and backed it up when called out with more evidence. And you also accused her of slander which she did not do.
She's one of our more phenomenal Christian models in America right now. Very down to earth as she changes the religious landscape of our culture by shining a light in dark places. I'm glad you were able to provide some time for her to talk through many of these things.
I completely disagree with Gavin Ortlund on climate change, and I completely disagree with Megan Basham's depiction of him in her book. I am not familiar enough with the other men she mentions to know if she is misrepresenting them as well, but I have to say I don't trust anything she says at this point.
Black child labor for electric cars is taking place today. Please watch videos on RU-vid. Liberals and politicians reveal little or no concern regarding this black slavery for ecology-sake. Of course, not! Black Lives Matter certainly does not care as they relish in their millions in donations. "After 50 years and hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies, loads of regulatory advantages, & political support, solar power generated under 4 percent of America’s electricity in 2023, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).” "Over 2023 and 2024 to date, 16 major solar companies have filed for bankruptcy, Solar Insure reported.” Customers are unable to receive repairs from their solar installment companies. Liberals did not care about all the pollution that fed the skies after the train derailment in East Palestine. Did not care about the dead fish and animals in East Palestine. They offered nothing to assist these people and also their resulting skin conditions and coughing up blood. FEMA refused to assist. Fish still dying after all this time. Everything is still poisoned/contaminated. Libs do not care about environmentalism. It is all a lie! Liberals own no true concern about the environment. It is only using this to gain more power and to rob people of their conveniences and rob them of more tax money. A Michigan Senate committee gave final legislative approval to allocate $175 million in state funds to a factory planned by Chinese manufacturer Gotion in northern Michigan. China is the worst of polluters; yet, liberals who claim to be green do all to protect this communist/marxist country. And they do not stand with green when it comes to natural marriage and it is the only green way. It is God’s way of two virgins, male and female, coming together to be united as one in marriage. "Nitrogen is an essential macronutrient for plant function and is a key component of amino acids, which form the building blocks of plant proteins and enzymes." This is what science speaks. God declares in His Holy Word that He removes fish as a result of man’s sinfulness. And the earth will remain until there is a new heavens and earth where righteousness reigns. The earth is polluted by sinfulness and will be till Christ rules the world from Jerusalem in the millennial. Jesus Christ, the thrill of hope, for a sick, hurting, and weary world-Romans 10:9-10 from the Bible: “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart man believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.”
What is with all this Gavin Ortland stuff? The guy has a PhD from Fuller Theological Seminary. Fuller was progressive way back in the 60s. Plus he is somehow connected to some Keller Foundation. What did she write that wasn't true? Now I really want to get the book.
Opps. But his piece was nothing until he got to the "I started to get reeely depressed an only a Tesla is gonna help." I had to stop. But then i come upon all this trolling, really organized wherever you are on the webs. They seem really upset. Usually you only see that when money is involved. Facinating. Im old and gullible so apalled by these creatures. Gonna buy your book though.
Gavin appears to have enlisted a troll army. Rock on ma'am, you are over the target. I watched his take on global warming. Catastrophic Global Hot/Cold, Wet/Dry unfalsifiable nonsense. His knowlege base is leftist pap but he did manage to work in the vital, "I'm kind of depressed about all this but we must fight on." For the children, amirite. Ojai is nice though. Wasn't Krishnamurti there too?
Such a dumb and ignorant comment. Typical ad hominems from those who don't have the facts on their side. I had no idea who Gavin Ortland was until this blew up. But I took the time to watch his response video and give careful consideration to his concerns. He was clearly slandered, which makes people mad when they see such awful treatment perpetuated unfairly towards an innocent person. THAT'S why so many are speaking out! I have lost the previous respect I held for Megan. She needs to apologize and make this right!
Great episode! Thanks for having Megan on your show. I recently saw her on Allie Beth Stuckey's podcast, and I'm so thankful that you and others are giving her a platform. Im looking forward to reading her book.
Here is the best breakdown of the Gavin Ortlund situation I have seen: Gavin says, "X" Megan says, "Gavin said X+Y" Gavin says, "No, I only said X. I do not believe Y." Megan says, "No you really did say X+Y." Gavin says, "No, I only said X, and here's the proof." Megan says, "He said X, and he was very careful to NOT say Y so that people would understand that he really meant to say Y." Gavin says, "No, I only meant for listeners to understand the thing I said, which is X. Not Y." Megan says, "Gavin is throwing a fit because I'm exposing that he believes Y." Gavin says, "I wish you well, sister. Peace. I'm out." Megan says, "Look, he's retreating because he doesn't like being exposed!"
She has made false, slanderous claims about at least one of the leaders, Gavin Ortlund, in her book by clearly and purposely taking statements out of context. Gavin Ortlund addresses that here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--3ClEkfP8pM.html
Megan needa to address the situation with Gavin Ortlund. If she doubles down or refuses to address it, it doesn't reflect well on her. She needs to have a public conversation with him. As she is busy marketing her book now, I have strong doubts that she will do the right thing. But that is why you have to be really careful when you criticize and label people, especially in print, and especially as negatively as she painted Gavin.
I get that Ortlund has a very charismatic persona that is quite likable, but that doesn't make him above criticism. Have you seen his video pushing Christians to adopt his view of climate change? It was very wrong and deserved to be called out. She was fair and accurate in her criticism. Why shouldn't she have included him in the book?
Orlund pushed old earth evolutionary theory, local flood, monkey's with Genesis 1-11, etc...he is not a theological conservative...He thinks atheistic scientific research is neutral without bias.
@@jaredhageman4986 "Have you seen his video pushing Christians to adopt his view of climate change?" In general most people want other to believe what they believe is the truth? so what's your point here? You are sweeping too wide. She was not fair in her criticism. She says that Ortlund makes some climate change position to be a central point of the faith while Ortlund actually says that it is not even a secondary issue.
I'm glad others noticed Gavin Ortlund's charitable response to her poor caricature of him. At best, she should be admonished for careless misrepresentation. At worst, she bore false witness against a fellow believer, having it published for the world to see. That's not service to the cause of Christ and the Kingdom doesn't benefit from half-truths and slander. God help us.
@@TheThreatenedSwan Even if that is true, Basham indisputably misrepresented him. He has demonstrated it. The only person dishonest in THIS ordeal is Basham, and a person of integrity should apologize and retract the statement to rectify the defamation.
You've got that exactly backwards. He lied about her. I guess his fans are so taken with his "nice guy" routine that they're unable to see it. But I read the book, watched his video, then re-read that section. She was extremely fair with him, yet he lied about her. Awful behavior for a pastor.
A fellow believer (in the Lord Jesus Christ)?? GO is a peopIe pIeαser who encourages Christians to get united with those who believe in fαIse gospeIs and criticizes those who take God at His Word. He is dangerous and continues to remind me of the one who asked Eve (in Genesis 3), “Did God really say ...?”
“It’s worth asking: If we can’t trust her with the basic facts, why should we trust her with the interpretation of these facts?” - Warren Cole Smith, _Which Shepherds Are For Sale?_
The fact that Gavin Ortlund has been solid on so many things doesn't excuse him. It makes him MORE culpable. Because sheeple (demonstrably) can't think. So it is worse when the Devil works through someone otherwise trustworthy.
If you actually watched his video, you'd know that he was encouraging people to research and be informed. Also, believing in climate change is not a sin and it certainly isn't a gospel issue.
The misrepresentations of Gavin Ortlund, which are demonstrable, make me question the credibility of the rest of the book. See his video where he brings the true “receipts”
Interesting that the Ortlund Boi's greek chorus are all worked up about Megan's "misrepresentation". A pretty nebulous accusation. I remember noticing how swiftly Ortlund, Inc. was deployed to try and do damage control for Alistair Begg when he started taking flack for his performative punching-down on "fundamentalists" re: marriage earlier this year. Haven't yet read Megan's book, but it would not be remotely surprising to me that GavGav is on the same payroll as some of the other usual suspects in his orbit. The couple of pieces that were pushed on social media that I looked at briefly were pretty well-orchestrated damage control PR to defend a left-slouching dumpster fire, and those things don't come about by sheer happenstance. They are commissioned. But I guess G.O. has amassed a fair amount of viewers to influence, hence the squawking. Must have hit a nerve with Team Gentle 'N Lowly. (I've never seen a pic of Big Daddy Ray Ortlund that I'm aware of, but I picture him as Lowly the Worm thanks to the cringey content in his book that so many people foisted on me back when it came out...including Alistair Begg's org that mailed it to me for free. I guess that must have been a down payment on services to be rendered by the Ortlund clan in the future.)
thats a whole lot of crock suppositions from someone who doesn't even know what he looks like. im not saying it is impt to know what any particular person looks like, but g.o. is more known for his youtube channel, which has him in it, so if you have no idea what he looks like, you don't even know anything about him firsthand, you had better hope he truly is everything you accused him of. you are aware of what God thinks of slander and gossip?
@@meepmeep545 You mixed up what I said about Ray Ortlund with what I said about his son. Maybe you don't realize that there are multiple Ortlunds being marketed to people. Regarding the younger Ortlund, yes I've obviously seen his face. I've no idea what Ray looks like. Ray's Gavin's dad, and wrote a mealy-mouthed tract a couple years ago that was being given out like candy by various Big Eva organizations. And now, thanks to the magic of Google, I have now looked up Ray and know what he looks like. Regarding Ray's progeny, the only vid I ever saw of his was his lightning-fast defense of Alistair Begg's defiant little punching-right moment this year. That was enough to inform me that he's willing to run cover for any slide to the left on the part of Big Eva figureheads. I suppose that if his audience is composed of folks with as poor of a grasp on reading comprehension as yourself, then it's no wonder so many of them are buying his phony Reasonable Conservative shtick. He seems about as conservative as David French.
If only I had a gaggle of hangers-on to start hounding @meepmeep545 about how he or she MISCHARACTERIZED me. Meepmeep took a comment that I made about Ray Ortlund and claimed that I made it about Gavin Ortlund. For shame! Meepmeep is as bad as Megan Basham. 😆 I deserve a full apology for this MISCHARACTERIZATION, do I not?!
@@TheMaineReset well no, i did not know you were speaking of gavin's father. why should i? Ortlund Boi, Ortlund, Inc, GavGav, G.O. Team Gentle 'N Lowly, Lowly the Worm, Ortlund clan why should i assume that Big Daddy Ray Ortlund refers to a different person, his father? i have just finished watching [What Critiques of Alistair Begg Are Missing]. i do not know if there are any related videos to the issue that you mentioned, but i have found nothing within that video that is wrong or disagreeable. i only wish to tell you this. you have shown no Christlikeness, no love. even if you were right on these issues, you are still wrong with God. yes you are eloquent, yet that will profit you nothing.
@@meepmeep545 I'm going to send some counseling clients your way! If you could determine that I'm "wrong with God" even if I'm right on an issue, based on my wisecracks in this thread, imagine what you could do with someone in a full hour's sit-down session. That is impressive. The only notes I could come up with for you based on this interaction were as follows: 1.) Reading comprehension needs work. 2.) Needs a refresher on when to capitalize, and 3.) Generally gullible. But you, on the other hand, were able to ascertain the very state of my soul! No less than astounding.
Talking about Crist, I kinda get what you were saying, but oh, it was all consensual, sexual sin, except one. That lil ol’ one potential r@pe. And he’s making a comeback with the softest repentance of all time. I don’t know, just seems shady.
I believe James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries has done some research, at least read some articles that were produced outside of the United States by reputable scientific writers and academia that debunk the climate change narrative quite well. You might check in with him about his sources on this subject.
Who is John Crist? What movie are you talking about? How about some background? I’m very interested in your topic, but you lost me after about 12 minutes.
John Crist is/was a Christian Comedian. He worked a bit with Tim Hawkins (who is funny, clean, and has some amusing song parodies, like, "Hey There Delilah." "Hey there Delilah, this is your old boyfriend Samson...")
I remember John Crist trending some years back. He seemed to enjoy wide appeal but something always bothered me about him, namely, he would make jokes about some very sacred things. Is there such thing as an appropriate joke from a 'christian' comedian about abortion or drunkenness? I think not, which is why I stopped listening to him. Later the real John Crist' came to light and I felt a bit justified in my boycott of his material.
John Crist is a Christian comedian who put out several videos that basically made fun of the Christian experience. Many can still be found on RU-vid. He also would do stand up shows at large megachurches. He seemed to come from a Pentacostal background. He apparently became sexually involved with several women and was called out on it. He did make a public confession and apology. I don't know the circumstances of the one abuse allegation.
37:02 “culture is doing [it] too, see, but we're doing it for different reasons, we're doing it for gospel reasons they're just doing it for other reasons, but we're all doing it together so nobody despises us” They see it as "Winsome Evangelism" which, in my observation, does not include the mandate of the Great Commission (irony there) - Make DISCIPLES which goes beyond the 'track', the 'Roman Road' or the 'sinner's prayer' and actually into teaching the Bible and theology and the marks of a follower of Christ, which, he who did it best with the 12, took about 3 years!
Well then, read also the breakthrough masterpiece novel, Where Do Ee Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Explains much. Very much. It explains the NLP pastors use to entrain, mesmerize and stage-hypnotize students, employees and congregants against their conscious consent. A fun read, but quite ameliorating. Enjoy!
Yea, except Gavin Ortlund is anything but a shepherd for sale and is a completely orthodox evangelical protestant. Her smear of him is totally unjust and she should issue a clarification at minimum. But her treatment of him most likely deserves a complete re-writing of the book. Totally untrue and a misrepresentation of good pastor. Shameful.
Right, if her caricature of Gavin Ortlund is any indication of how she performed research for the rest of the book, I would take everything with a massive grain of salt.
@MickJagger-el6of Definitively not. Even if he were, would that fact justify a Christian bearing false witness? How much more so a fellow Christian whose disagreement is due to a a tertiary, non-Gospel related issue and one that he discussed years ago on a single video. If conservative, orthodox believers can't have charitable disagreements, God helps us.
@MickJagger-el6of And conservatives have not done that also? I think both sides are guilty of that. I am not saying Ortlund did that. IDK. But I have heard conservatives do that for conservative issues that are tertiary issues. But then again I have heard some radical things by some very influential conservative (politically). And I am very conservative before you think different
@MickJagger-el6of no offense but you seem close minded /f you want to know I have heard people in and out of the SBC refers to items such as climate change or lack of belief of it as more than just a tertiary issue, .one can believe in it or not and be a good Christian, economic issues such socialism vs capitalism while important are also not a gospel issue, I have seen pastors such and RU-vid professionals talk about them like they are, just like you pretty much did unless you did not mean that one has to believe in the right side of the issues to be a biblical Christian, I also went to acSBC seminary in which the president was very conservative about women in ministry, so much so the school turned fundamentalist, I had a professor who said he would not marry a couple if the woman would ever work to provide needed income fo4 the home, Another example of conservatism in politics gone too far
Megan owes a massive apology to Gavin Ortlund for snipping and misrepresenting his words. We can consider the merits of the rest of her work once she makes this right. Trust has to be re-earned at this point.
Jon, I'll add mine to the chorus of voices expressing concern over Megan's treatment of Gavin Ortlund in the book. I watched his video on climate change and I'm well acquainted with his ministry. While I think he may be misguided in one or two areas, he's not one of the bad guys, and certainly has a lot to teach us about church history and the early reformers and how instructive they can be in helping us form our understanding of certain areas that maybe deserve a second look or a deeper analysis. That said, I think it would be very helpful to many of us for you to address comments he has made since this interview, as well as addressing how Megan has responded. Thanks for this wonderful interview, brother.
We should not platform someone like her who is so careless to slander a godly pastor like Gavin Ortlund. She needs to publicly apologize to him and correct the record, however that can be done after so carelessly publishing untruths in a book.
I have an honest question. Why does a Christian expend the time and energy to impugn the integrity of fellow believers they disagree with, that many people have come to respect? This is especially troubling since the person Basham is doing this to help is so much worse than the people she is outing. Whatever improprieties they may have, they are certainly not as bad as those of Trump, who has no moral values and defies everything the Bible teaches. Do we really want to help put someone in the highest office in the land who is part of a worldwide criminal kleptocratic ring that subverts the rules of law and takes advantage of innocent people so they can gain power and acquire personal wealth while taking advantage of other people? A tiny bit of research will reveal this about Trump and it should disturb anyone, especially a Christian. It certainly did Jesus, who was circumspect in his attitude toward the powerful taking advantage of common people for dishonest gain.
As Christians we have to be much more careful with our words than this gentleman is around the 17:00 mark. That comment about the abuse allegations not being a “big deal” is exactly how Christian’s give our detractors ammunition. Sexual sin is always a “big deal”, even if it isn’t systemic(which I don’t believe it is). Grossly irresponsible words. Think before you speak.
Listen to other conversations with Jon and you’ll understand that he certainly did not mean that . He tried to walk it back a bit, made a simplistic comment and moved on . He has addressed the sinfulness and horrific nature of what happened. His point, and the truth of it, was that it was greatly overblown and the scale of it was a small percentage of a very large group of pastors. One instance is reprehensible! Dozens or hundreds of sexual sins staggers the imagination, but what was actually reported was just minuscule in light of the SBC’ s 45,000 churches and 15 million members.
@@davidprell3838 I agree, and that doesn’t contradict my concerns about his words. Any new interview with Megan is going to get a lot of eyes right now, so it’s even more discouraging that he used that kind of phrase.
I think it's different for a journalist, not a pastor? She's not acting like she's pastoring a church or teaching Biblical doctrine. She's sharing information about false teachers. It would have to be within that context bc in that case every time a woman has a conversation with someone else on biblical matters, she would be teaching and exerting authority.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast I did watch that video. Are you intellectually honest enough to have Megan or Rosaria on your show and voice your objections directly to them? Or to address your wife’s calligraphy business?
Ortlunds characterization in the book seems pretty unfair IMO. How exactly is he a Shepherd for sale? He has a small ministry talking about niche theological topics of interest and promoting dialogue and critical thinking, no money there whatsoever. As a pastor, I find his channel and books very engaging and incredibly helpful in ministry; it helps me have conversations with people who have other perspectives, while giving me the critical thinking tools to think through my own view points, even if I don't hold all of Ortlunds positions, I don't think that is the point of his channel at all - he doesn't expect or require people to agree with him, rather he seeks out dialogue and conversation on issues - instead of making every secondary issue a 'non-negotiable litmus test of true faith' - which seems to be the premise and spirit of Megan's book..
At 6:30 There should be a big "record scratch moment," when she says, "I got a pitch from somebody, I don't even know how they got my email." When actual Nazis take over America, lets look back at this moment when we saw the pendulum swing to the right, and ask ourselves...."How did they get my email?"
This was actually pretty surprising. A good conversation that should matter. Megan has been spot on with many of the things she's reported on. At the time it took great courage for you to stand up against the fawning over Rachael Denhollander and the elevated status many gave her as an expert on Sexual Abuse. This is the old Megan that I've seen in the past and certainly NOT the Megan she's been showing on X in her tweets wrt Gavin Ortlund. Now she needs to just get the GIANT Sequoia Tree outta her eye socket, apologize to Gavin and others, and confess "I got that wrong" as she says in this video that some should do. Two other things I'll mention. First, I'd have loved to have heard from Megan whether she has looked into and done any investigative journalism of the whole Julie Roys reporting of JMac covering up sexual abuse in the Eileen Gray scandal. I'd be interested to know her thoughts on Julie's reporting and on any specifics of the whole issue if she looked into it. Secondly, the mistake I see Megan making in her book and the conclusions others are making from it is the whole idea that because someone took money from a Leftist organization that they are somehow in bed with that organization. That's the stereotypical Boogeyman Fallacy. Guilt By Association and it's wrong. It's sin. A violation of the command Jesus gave in John 7:24.
Basham's shameless objective lies about Dr. Gavin Ortlund, (a conservative Christian pastor,) which she refuses to retract, show that there is another side to this idea of "selling out the Gospel for a political end." Namely, that a person can just as easily sell out to the Right Wing as they can to the Left-- as Basham, in so doing, handily exemplifies.
She addressed this on X and brought receipts to back it up. If anyone should be repenting it is him along with yourself for slandering Megan Basham without evidence.
@@the_hortator you are doing exactly of what you are accusing her of doing…only she’s in the right and you are in the wrong…so how is she “selling out”. She’s actually going up against the money and propaganda machine of BigEva whom many have unfortunately folded to, like it seems yourself. And all you’ve got is detritus in response but nothing of substance to disprove what I said. Thank you for proving Megan Basham right.
Only a mature loser with no life would make a dumb comment that two people having a private conversation outside of a RU-vid podcast is troubling. No, seriously, you really do need to get a life.
Yep, the women who found the empty tomb should NEVER have told the disciples what they'd found. 😂 Some of y'all are the ones giving patriarchy a bad name! Patriarchy doesn't mean treating women as idiots. A secure man will hear truth wherever it is being spoken, being wise about the nature of the relationship, of course. But that doesn't mean being scared of such relationships! We're to live as brothers and sisters in the Lord. Patriarchal order is not the sum total of our lives together.
Ortlund is one of the orthodox, conservative Christian pastors that she goes on about "selling out the Gospel for a political agenda" for 7 pages-- each and every citation of which, as it turns out, is a fabrication. He's got a video out about it, since she decided to slander him in print, which needless to say is impacting him and his ministry.
some christian pastor who isn't right about everything (no pastor is), but models (consistently) how to disagree in a manner that honours Christ, especially among believers. (he does not budge on essential doctrines, in case that is your next qn)
