Melee Controllers Have Gone Too Far 

Maybe if Leffen didn't throw 30% of the worlds supply of controllers into the floor, we wouldn't have this problem.

Its funny to see how challenges from sports have come to esports as well. Hockey for example has gone through a similar debate, albeit a long time ago. Players would modify their sticks to put a curve at the end to allow for better puck control. Players and fans didnt universally love it but it was never outright banned. Same thing with when they changed from wooden sticks to the composite ones they use now. Its totally different than what the game was originally played with but I think it has raised the skill ceiling for those who are truly skilled. As time goes on people will find a way to modify their tools that gives them any advantage, especially in a competitive setting!

So glad you mentioned UCF, truly one of the best innovations for this game and a very elegant solution.

"Are Melee players allergic to change?" I mean, they still play Melee, so that answers your question.

Just a note for the editors: Leffen is probably one of the most biased, unreliable sources of information on box-style controllers. I wouldn't base a 14 minute video on his opinion.

When it comes to the HitBox I remember distinctly hearing that one of the major advantages of it was ergonomics. As SEVERAL smash bro's players had suffered injuries from playing the game, and that this hitbox offered them a way to play without being in pain from conditions like arthritis

I have a friend (He's not a pro or even trying to be a pro), yet he owns like 15 controllers with countless parts and stuff that he adjusts every time we play Smash. It's actually mindboggling when you actually watch him talk about it. He even has a 3d printer that he uses to make parts (He says it's an utter disaster trying. It's nuts how much time and money a person can invest into Gamecube controllers.

Man, I love dipping into random communities occasionally to watch a video about a current problem or hot topic. In this case, I'm not even playing Melee, but it's fascinating to see what's going on in their “world” and appreciate the effort, experience, and history involved in all of this. So interesting!

I held a large magnet in the nearest room to make jmooks controller explode mid set.

Dan Salvato is a legend, also mang0 has one of the most modded controllers in the scene so take his words with some salt lol

Dan Salvato is not just saying game dev, he's the dev behind Doki Doki Literature Club

used to be a TO for some melee locals. can confirm: 2/3 of my gc controllers are from Japan lol

Finally a Different Cracked episode! Its always shooters in here...

Every time homeboy comes on screen the more evil villain that curly mustache becomes

Yes more melee content please!!

Been watching for a long time for the CS content but this melee video finally got me to sub GG

Im very pro hitbox style pads but I'm still on the line with how to allow multiple angled inputs for the crazier movement. I don't know how youd really be able to test the code to make sure its compliant, I think the most you could ask is to limit the number of buttons total allowed on the box.

The guy that actually knows what he is talking about. The video editor XD knows everything.

There was a hitbox/mixbox issue in streetfighter a while ago bc you could hold forward and back at the same time which would allow you to block while moving or start charge moves earlier because of this iirc.

If someone wants to take the time to learn the insane smashbox, more power to them and good for them for saving their hands.

came for the melee, stayed for the stache

melee is a cargo cult at this point

Would love you guys to do a vid on the 5 gods of fighting games Daigo, Nuki, Sako, Haitani, Tokido. The 5 Gods of Melee term was inspired by these guys. They all played more than just Steet Fighter too. Not so much these days as there's more at stake but back in the day they were on another level.

Imagine my surprise hearing how much these guys spend on modded controllers while i play Melee casually (Slippi) using an old PS4 Remote with some stick drift 😂

Coming moreso from other fighting games, and playing them on keyboard, I can see how it's an advantage to have a purely consistent controller. However, Haxx$ made "The Boxx", which intentionally is nerfed for melee, making it a much more viable alternative to the gamecube controller. It's a hard question to answer, but especially in melee, I believe that it makes far less of a difference. Anywhos, FGs are awesome, and you're awesome if you play any of them, no matter your controller

LOL Controller players are threatened of a keyboard just being better they call it cheating.

This dude is over here looking like a Fable trader on the way to Barrow Fields.

As a 3 year smashbox controller user, it does feel very good to use and there are objective advantages. Though small, they can accumulate in those cutting edge situations. The drawbacks are real too, but situational and in some cases may not matter. Why do I permanently use my smashbox / crossup box controllers then? It is 100% because of my wrists and hands. I use my hands exhaustively in my daily life, taken further using the switch pro controller daily which left my hand and fingers numb regularly. I developed carpal tunnel and couldn't hold things like milk gallons without quickly exhausting my hands for the day. Using the smashbox controller turned that around so fast. Yes, I can technically push myself even harder to get the most out of the benefits, making my wrists worse despite the smashbox controller. However instead, I distribute the work across my fingers better allowing me to play with better endurance, which I would otherwise be behind average on due to my wrist issue. Thank you HitBox Arcade for making the smashbox. Now that my years in smash are over, accelerated by Nintendo's continued apathy towards the tournament scene compared to companies like Valve, Im going on to use it in other games like Tekken 8.

Every time I think about getting on Smash I remember just how crazy complete it is…

You should see the goomwave. That controller almost plays the game for you.

As for the phob. We do need some work to make them better. I think a lot of the problem comes from builders who dont know what solder to use or using the wrong specs when having the PCBs made. I built my own phob and its been great. It took a while to get it calibrated but once i got that done ive had no issues. As for Leffen and whatever he says in literally anything just ignore it. He is either 100% correct or 100% wrong. Nothing against him there just that he is not a good source of information or community sentiment.

Tournaments should supply controllers. Everyone gets a built and verifided-to-work controller. No dopey mods, it just works as it should. Simple as. That change would eliminate controller modding as there'd be no point to cheating outside of tournaments where you'd suddenly have a huge disadvantage.

Glad Asumsaus got time in the sun here. His videos are my favorite melee content by far

4:40 calling them Smashers gave me a good laugh

Worth noting that Dan Salvato of UCF is the same one from Doki Doki Literature Clube! Very fun fact.

I think keyboard style boxes with mtx silver switches and extremely short travels are the ultimate.

2:52 this is the first real person i have ever seen in life to use hair gel in his mustache lol

Peripheral kings, unite!

As long as the controller has 1:1 inputs I don’t care how many buttons you put on it or what shape you decide to put it in. Speaking accessibility, controllers being 100% customizable with everything from size and shape all the way down to button choice in size, placement, and type is a huge mega win for gaming at all levels. If someone is using a non 1:1 by utilizing macros and combo inputs then I do take issue as it brings into question the legitimacy of their inputs as a whole. Custom notches at specific angles don’t bother me either, if I showed up to a COD tournament and put a red sticker on my screen for sniping am I cheating?

I'm okay with box controllers simply because they are products that are still being made, that can still be bought. At a certain point, Gamecube controllers won't be available to anyone, and the playerbase will have to accept that other types of controllers will have to be used instead. Banning any non-oem controllers would be like forcing all tournaments to play the game on Gamecubes with the original Melee disc. At a certain point, it's just not viable to cling to components, hardware and software that you can no longer buy.

Damn, and I thought us Halo 2 kids were nerdy with our OG Xbox controllers haha. This is in a whole other league.

i have a question .. now tbf i have never played mele but i do play a lot of COD MW2/3(lvl 1225) . SO.. i bought the elite 2 controller , very nice controller might i add, but THEN i was like " i should get the scuf " . Holy hell i love this controller . Some say it is cheating because of the advance controls . i was wondering on anyone thought's on this . If you reply thank you if not so be it . Have a nice day .

The solution is simple, standard design specifications agreed by the tournament organizers. Controllers should have standard spring lengths, button sizes, notches, etc. It's clear the scene will last for decades to come and OEM hardware will be harder and harder to find and players will be forced to use 3 party controllers. I think hit boxes are fine to a limit. No macros, no dual input, can't do anything that an OEM controller can't do. So buttons that can let a player go right or left are fine, but buttons that let's someone to immediately do up+B attacks with one button are illegal since that's two inputs with one button press. Accessibility is important so we need hit boxes but there has to be a limit for competitive play Just because a controller looks OEM does not mean it is. Besides, they can always make two different brackets

Newer box style controllers are not an issue for the most part. I am sure that there are some that give an advantage but I definitely don't think box/smashbox style controllers are "cheating". It's also a barrier for entry due to the low amount of good gamecube controllers and the amount people are willing to charge for them. It also helps players to avoid damaging their hands, which has happened to some pros in the past due to the executional requirements of the game.

If only melee players put this much effort into showering...

That guy saying he's not going to play like it was going to stop everyone else lmao

when all the top players get into their 50s and touching a gamecube controller causes their hands to burn they will want box to be legal

Its not about whether or not a scrub becomes a god with an unfair controller. Its about whether a top 100 player suddenly becomes a top 25 player. Its not about the lower ranked players and never has been. Giving even a slight advantage at the top level is massive.

the gamecube controller is the reason i didnt get into melee like that

It's also illegal to remove the trigger springs in the controller for Melee specifically, but not the other Smashes.

I'd absolutely never be friends with someone THIS obsessed with Melee.

Nah that Colton guy looks like a 90’s cartoon villain with that nasty mustache

In a competitive enviorment everyone should be using the same contoller set just for a level playing field

11:44 this clip cracks me up cause leffens airtime complaint after losing to hbox was minutes after losing. whilst in the vod hbox's complaining started before the match was even actually finished rofl

I like how Yuko Yurei's in the background

if I see another argument about banning hitboxes let me remind you its a custom keyboard for fighting games so if hitboxes get banned prepare to ban keyboards as well.

To get back to the sports analogy, the hitbox vs even modded/hand-crafted controllers seems more like bringing a cricket bat up to home plate at a baseball game instead of a baseball bat. It's radically different hardware.

The moment that moustache appeared was the moment I closed the video 🤢🤷‍♂

Colton out here looking like a minor One Piece villain.

I hope I one day find a girl that will tell people incredibly flattering stories about me that are as flattering as this videos use of "actually knows what he's talking about"

This explains so much why smash felt so finicky in it's movements all this time..

Friends don't let friends have that mustache. Holy shit.

I play on an Xbox controller. I find it hard to imagine switching to a GC controller or whatever would make such a big diff. Maybe if I were a top-tier player, I'd see the difference, but as a very mediocre player, I think focusing on the fundamentals is much more important. I'll worry about controllers when I reach gold rank

I always forget that colten is a Takodachi.

It was nice on part of Salvador Dali to participate in the vid

He looks like an early 1900s villain about to tie the girl to the train traxs

I think its fair to experiment with controllers just like anything in the world that people compete in you want the best sht for the job and everyones needs is different

I can understand leffen argument. Is like having a mouse with recoil scripts. you struggle with recoil, while he beams you across the map with an high recoil weapon.

Woah just noticed Yuko Yurei in the background 😂

in a competitive scene everyone should be using the same equipment.

Question for a new video: What was Nintendo thinking (or lack thereof) with the GameCube controller? Insane that nearly every component isn’t using standardized parts. Really? Even the trigger springs inside are different?? Why??

The smash box has been a thing for years, whys this only coming up now?

What console is smash tournaments played on?

My GameCube controller came with humbuckers

to have follow this topic since some time u did a good job, having a part with goowave and the other custom board that was ban would have be cool but that s still a quality video. ps: lefen doesn represent melee or aanybody in it and his opinion is often more wrong that true

As a non competitive smash player who over years has worn through many many original game cube controllers analog sticks. The best solution I have found is to replace the original stick using a Wii nunchuck analog stick. The rubber is connected entirely differently and has extended the lifetime of my sticks by what feels like 10x . Maybe someone finds this helpful.

Here is my take, the input devices in any game will evolve over time. As long as there isn't software that presses buttons for you or any macros that allow you to execute combos with one button its not cheating, its still the player making ALL the inputs.

smash is the only community where an arcade stick used for decades for fighting games, is seen as cheating LOL

Jesus Christ I thought Leffen was gonna be a host this video based on the thumbnail

So no wonder me and a friend of mine (who played more gamecube than we should have) had favourite controllers. My orange one dying sucked lol.

I LOVE FGC CONTENT PLEASE MAKE MORE RAAHH

if only panda didn't go bust after that whole situation. we would've had a great controller market

i already knew leffen in the thumbnail was about to brew comments 😭

Dude with the mustache sounds like Norm Mcdonald

in video games as long as theres a 1-1 player input as intended , in terms of accessibility it shouldnt matter if my openent is playing on a racecar controller

Controller expert dude was watching some weird shit on his back left monitor.

Kind of reminds me of racers and racecars. You want the best of both.

Just need to change so you think f1 racing will go back to manual gear box ?

Modded controllers is 100% a no go but since a lot of the biggest smash players use them they let it slide. I see nothing wrong with Box controllers, they have a higher skill ceiling and def won’t make you a pro overnight.

Setting aside issues of competitive integrity I think its kinda funny that the melee scene of all scenes would be against a controller thats better for your hands.

I think esports are a great equalizer, where those with physical differences or impairments can compete on equal footing. Use whatever controller doesn't cause you pain to use. Evolution also keeps the game alive.

Considering that they’re no longer manufactured, I wonder if there will ever come a point where the Melee community will move away from GCCs entirely. Like, if in 30 yrs you’ll go to a Melee tournament and see people using an XBox controller with an adapter, or smth like that.

Golten has the face of a young man but the voice of 60 years old

Just don't ask any clone hero/YARG/Guitar hero top players for modding controllers.

Colton has taste.

Your buddy needs to switch the oil baron stash for a handlebar. its unnerving

why are we still dealing with "is hitbox cheating?" arguments? There is an Spanish phrase that translates to "what is equal is not an advantage" hitboxes are legal and if you don't want to use them well then that's your problem. I don't usually play fighting games but when I do I play with a keyboard, hitboxes are the closest things there are to a keyboard, If someone wants to jump from being a casual keyboard player to a serious controller player they will probably chose a hitbox.

Leffen would complain about the air his opponent breaths.

BOOBROS WE WINNING

We all know that if leffen developed hand problems and started using a lever less, the melee community would be supportive of him