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@@joshdimaggio5764 the b-reverse window is solely on frame 3, which is also the first active frame. i'm not entirely sure what frame the launch occurs, but it's not until after the sourspot comes out, so there's a fair few frames after the b-reverse window in which you can input a backwards angle for more height
another small tip dr. mario down b rises a tad bit higher if you jump down b instead of using down b alone why doc using his down b while falling he does a slight curve before starts rising, jumping and down b keeps the momentum from the jump rise and doc will be able to get his full down b height this helps sometimes when I accidently forward air offstage and have to use this to recover and I also use this as a mix up when I'm offstage
Doc's terrible recovery is also great for teaching stage control. Being knocked off stage as Doc is terrifying, so you naturally learn to stay as far away from it as possible when not in advantage.
I find myself camping ledge a lot with Doc because he can put a lot of fear into people with his dair and grab. An up smash with your back to the ledge is better than a back throw if they weren't at kill percent and can be followed up with bair and dair. Confidence in your fundamentals can make you feel comfortable camping the space between the underside of the side platforms and the ledge. It is a playground for the Dr.
Yeah, Doc's one of the most honest characters in the game. No tricks, no gimmicks, no comeback DLC mechanic, just fundamentals, punishes, and edge guards. Your grabs are earned, your combos need to be hot, and you gotta know how to play hard enough to push advantage, but smart enough to not get thrown off stage. Him and the Pits will make you a really mindful player.
Their mobility, recovery, and disjoints make Pit/Pitoo a much safer/easier character. I agree they are gimmick-free. Wins feel fair. But they do not force you to understand the game quite so integrately as Doctor Mario. You can get complacent with the Pits. You can't with the Doc.
Dr. Mario makes me wish we had N64 Mario back. I like the moveset way more than the reworked Mario. Doc inherits it, but with new physics I don't enjoy.
No pits not really Pit has a broken recovery gimping tool and projectile in arrow You don't even have to go off stage to kill off stage and you can without being punished because of your multiple jumps and up b as well as easy combos with nait Dark pit has good arrows but not as a good multiple jumps busted recovery and a side b that's better then wonderwing yet has no limits
Like a real doctor, playing Doctor Mario requires surgical precision, specific techs, and always being ready to adapt to unfavorable situations. He is the true tactician in the game, always needing to think and play ahead of the opponent to secure kills and wins, unlike alot of the cast where you don't have to be as strict on the basics. Doc is super rewarding when you succeed and brutally punishing when you fail. I think harder and better when I play as Doc due to his playstyle requiring it, and I think I need to play as him a bit more after watching this.
So, originally, Dr. Mario was a quickly-added clone of Mario. But one thing people need to consider is that Mario's moveset was changed in later games to add FLUDD, so now Dr. Mario serves a niche purpose - being the closest thing to Melee Mario in later Smash Bros games. As a result I actually don't mind him that much.
Yeah considering literally every single one of the original 64 characters already have a clone in game cept DK and yoshi they could use the chance to update some of their movesets keeping the old stuff on doctor mario the younger links dark samus pichu etc after all most of their movesets havent gotten actual changes other than niche small details or visuals since Brawl and thats ONLY because of final smashes some havent gotten changes since melee or even 64 and most of them can't keep uo with the stuff new characters have
I very much miss Mario's down B. The Fludd was terrible in Brawl and even though it got made better in later games, its nowhere as fun to me. I have good memories of Dr. Mario playing Melee casually. So Dr. Mario basically is a nostalgia trip for me in current Ultimate
Dr. Mario used to be my choice for playing with friends as there was a bit of a skill difference between me playing 100++ hours and my friends that didn't even have the game.
It feels really awkward watching this after owning the game for over a year and realising I didn't actually know what 'out of shield' options actually meant so I've never done them correctly even with the characters that I knew had them...
You’re not alone. For the record, your out of shield options on any character are up-smash, up-b, jump (and by extension any short hop aerials), and grab.
I've known about it forever but for some reason I just can't do it. I'm not amazing at the game in general but in particular I have this weird block about acting out of shield. I always either miss or do it too late. I feel like there is just something I'm doing wrong fundamentally, or maybe it just requires drill, which I am not nearly serious enough to bother with.
If Doc's air speed wasn't so atrocious, he could be a much better character. Actual Mario is also pretty limited in his recovery options, but his higher jumps and much better air speed gives him the flexibility to have a decent off stage game. Doc doesn't need Mario's hops, but he definitely needs a better air speed imo
Let the Dr. use down special multiple times in the air. It losing verticality until you regain your jumps is too harsh. It should be refreshed alongside up special if you get hit. Let the sheet stall, too. It would make him harder to read while recovering.
he's my lowkey main too when i get my ass kicked in a set and i pull out Doc and surprise the opponent by playing a bottom tier and actually winning (i main banjo so its even more hilarious)
The exact same reason I mained Little Mac. Maining what people called "The literal WORST Smash character" taught me how to excel in movement, understand the importance of spacing, and mixups. Plus he was my type, a rush down fighter with INCREDIBLE DPS, just lacking in aerial and not enough options in neutral. I was never good at Smash until I got amazing with Mac.
lowkey. i know we all have a lot of fun with all the crazy special moves they’ve been adding to characters like hero or sora, but i miss the bigger emphasis on more melee oriented attacks
I haven't watched much ultimate but one of the most surprising things about this game to me is seeing pretty much every character having insane recovery, feels like 50+ of the characters can make it back easily from the bottom corners of the blast zone. Meanwhile Doc's recovery is basically the same as in melee lol
While I do understand having this sentiment after watching this video, having a game be filled with underpowered jack-of-all-trades with only a few specialist characters, the roster would be pretty boring. I think the game is better for having Doc be alone where he is, serving as the place where people can go to polish themselves up before returning to the rest of the cast
As a Dr.Mario main playing as him is hard, I did switch mains but I’ll always include him as a character I play (I main Roy now) but playing him has always made me think harder than I needed to. Which has completely gone away with my brain dead Roy still like him tho
One thing I find interesting between Mario and Dr. Mario (intentional or not) is how even though they have the same moves, they do separate jobs Mario teaches you the fundamentals (hence why he's pretty up there tier wise; he's got all the tools you need which makes him good for beginners) However, Dr. Mario takes that, and adds patience to the equation >You can't force yourself in (too slow, most characters outrage or outspeed you) >You can't unga bunga with your buttons (refer to above) >Even when you're in, you can't mindless combo (again, no range and can easily have it turned on you) You dont play this character because of the insane 900IQ plays, or having a consistent gameplan, or because they have a gimmick that you like You play Dr. Mario in order to FEEL the W once you learn
Dr Mario also teaches discipline and why true knowledge of a character is important. Because of the points you mentioned, you are forced to learn what risks are worth taking in neutral, and if the risk is outweighed by the possible advantage. Playing as Doc teaches you how to work around a characters flaws to the best of your ability. It also makes you realize the true utility of your tilts, aerials, and specials and the many ways to use. What moves are most effective against specific characters. Doctor Mario will make you both realize the true meaning of every tool in his kit, and start thinking about the true purpose of other character’s moves. Dr Mario’s name fits in Smash Bros and with Mario’s, because while Mario teaches you how to play and the fundamentals to Smash, Doctor Mario *diagnoses* problems with your fundamentals and play. If you have problems with certain mechanics of competitive play, your failure as Doc will help you figure out what it is, and show you what you need to do to not fail again.
@@theobserver4214 "Dr Mario’s name almost fits Mario’s because while Mario teaches you how to play and the fundamentals to Smash, Doc diagnoses problems with your fundamentals and play" Holy shit get this man a true
@@theobserver4214 Damn, that line about Doc diagnosing problems with fundies, sheesh, have you been watching EmpLemon? Because that sounds like something he would say.
I think I like playing Doc more than Mario himself. I feel like I work with him better even if I still not claiming games with him. It's like Dedede where they aren't a main and are more of a back pocket, "I wanna have fun" character.
Doc feels so satisfying to win with. I especially love that down B kills at 105 and back throw kills in specific places as low as 95. Really good for cleaning up a stock if you can't hit something meatier.
Really solid video, I loved how in depth you went into why certain aspects of the good doctor's kit were important for general improvement. It also made the occasional funny all the funnier, which was nice. Also it's legitimately heartwarming to see how long you've known Zach for, I'm really glad you two are still buds and I hope you'll continue to be for the foreseeable future!
When my friend and his coworkers had a smash night every month for ultimate I remember walking in my first night and my friend said "he mains Duck Hunt and Dr. Mario." They laughed at first, but after my first night where I did a clean sweep of the room I became the certified Antagonist of smash night. Only in the context of smash had I the enmity of an entire room. ESPECIALLY when I caped anyone for the edge guard. The banter and drinking afterwords was primo though. They brought in their equivalent of their older bro to get me a few months later. The cheers when I lost fuel me to this day.
3:38 I highly disagree, King K. Rool's recovery requires an insane amount of brain cells to calculate the recovery and angles that you must take. That aside though, this gives me the same vibe as a League of Legends video I watched a long time ago, where someone tried an experiment where he wanted to see what would happen if he played a basic bad character (Garen) for a long time, and found out that by playing such a basic bad character, it forced him to get good at the fundamental part of the game, which is the same here with Doc. Really interesting video! Maybe you should do a reverse version of this video where you just spammed Minecart as Steve and state how this destroyed all sense of neutral.
I am loving this new style of video, i rarely catch myself watching smash content as of more recently, but honestly? This had me interested the entire time! Great work👍
I really like playing Doc. He's like Ganon to regular Mario's Captain Falcon. I've also upped my 2-frame game by going for cape -> down smash. If you think double jump fair hits the dopamine, hit that cape 2-frame. You'll never want to edgeguard again.
Doctor Mario is basically how all of the other characters should be balanced, the dynamic of matches would be so fun to watch because it's more clear who deserves to win or lose
Okay I used to main doc a while ago and I'm glad to see you're enjoying him too, I highly recommend trying out down tilt stuff because that move is genuinely crazy with how much hitstun it has and how much it does for him mid and late game. Also down b is an amazing and consistent kill move that has armor on the ground and ridiculous base KB, it feels like rob side b on crack off stage
I love Doc! I've always believed that he's so underrated! At the same time it's that EXACT mentality that has led me to victories! People see Doc and think they're getting a freebie . . . until they're counting the cracks under the stage, lol!
Doc is like for expert players, same with anyone with terrible recovery, as you need to think outside the box, but if you are able to get the hang of it, your rewarded with some strong attacks and damage, but he is very fun to play with I won’t lie.
That point about elite smash players having bad habits is so true, I remember a clip of Alpharad demolishing a captain falcon by reading every single spot dodge after he had fallen for a few
As a Dr. Mario main in Smash Ultimate, thank you for making this video. I've played with the Doc for a good while now, and I've gotten to be decent with him.
Been convinced for years that Doc is a Mario family member but is NOT the Mario Mario we know in the games. It would explain why they are different. Even Luigi’s last name is Mario. Maybe Doc is a uncle or something
I've been a doc main since the start of smash 4 and this video appearing in my recommendations made me so happy since nobody talks about this character lol makes me realise how much I still have to learn as him
as a doc main I am so happy you made this video! his down air is one of the most satisfying to hit and his down special works wonders in any situation!
Dr. Mario's hard hitting moves feel good to land, KOing with his Up B is always satisfying. I like his playstyle so much more than Mario's, even though Mario has an amazing combo game and shenanigans with FLUDD. Also, he has the best backthrow animation in the game.
Don't comment a lot, but this video was amazing. I like the history you put and the amount of detail you put on a character that wouldn't get a lot of this. I think more in-depth character pieces would be great, this was an awesome video.
This is a great video! I kinda love the talkie vids, it feels right to just start about your experience after playing this game for so many years. I also love it for other games too
This is why I like playing Wizard in YOMI Hustle- doing melee combos with a projectile character. The mixup headgames are real sometimes, it's funny watching someone get nervous bc you are play aggressively and they don't expect it. You made a lot of good points
What a nice video. I remember many years ago, when Hopcat was just starting, playing against Little Z, almost never winning but having a good time and some "hopcat's win", but got better and better as he practiced, and now he is an excellent player, able to teach others about the game. Thanks for many years of entertainment.
I have exclusively mained this guy since 4 and I always had a "reading" centric playstyle, I never really thought about why but this def explains it. Now I wanna play Smash lol
Really well done, HopCat. Super informational and will help a lot of us to get better at the game! Keep up all the hard work - a lot of time definitely goes into these videos
"Doc's recovery is worse than Mac's" 100% true, at least Mac can punch the air and get some air drift to up B, even Mac's horizontal recovery is somewhat better than Doc's. Also, I main both :v
in the N64 engine, Remix Doc is kinda busted, since he's got the combos, he's got the speed for N64 combat, and Tornado is kinda busted with mashing there being very forgiving.
i find it very funny that the entire section on range is something i had to learn in my irl mma class. if ur shorter than ur opponent, u want to either be too far for them to hit you, or up close and personal so you’re in an ideal position to hit them, while they’re somewhat uncomfortable hitting you back. you also have to mix up your timing so as not to be predictable, because then you’ll just walk right into their fist lol. it’s always cool when real life fighting knowledge is applicable to video games!
Welp, this not only taught me the importance of faking out your opponent, but actually gave me some plausible ways to practice them. Let's hope this helps me be less predictable as that's probably my biggest flaw.
When I used to play ultimate I only played doc and I had so many mental battles with myself about why I played him and how I had to have inner monologues with what and what I shouldn't do to each character, but you put almost all of my thoughts in this video it's hilarious. I thought I was the only one who has gone through that doc adventure. Nice video.
Watching smash players try to explain things is so funny to me. Like when you were explaining the pill. Seeing barebones characters like Dr Mario confuses so many people because he doesn’t have a unique win condition. The pill isn’t a neutral skip like most characters have, it’s a neutral tool. It’s just a traditional fireball
As a Doc main, this video is spot on. He's an awful character with too many disadvantages to count, but boy, when you beat someone with him, it feels amazing. You seriously have to earn every hit, combo and recovery, and if you don't, you'll probably lose. I don't think he should get removed from the next smash game though, I'd like to keep the bad characters. :)
its crazy how alot of concepts can carry between completely different games, the part about dash dancing really interested me, i dont play smash much, but there is an equivilent strategy in League of Legends, it doesnt have a name as far as im aware, but most players will move in and out of an opponents effective range to try and bait their important abilities and to make their engage less predictable. so cool!
It really is funny how seemingly the only thing keeping Doc from being the worst character in the game is just “He has a projectile, and both Ganon and Little Mac don’t.” P.S. Not to get too pedantic, but to correct what Hop was talking about in the intro, Brawl didn’t have 7 years of development time; it had about 2, as it didn’t enter production until _after_ it was announced at E3 2005, and then had a few months of pre-production before proper development began in late 2005, (most likely October) according to SmashWiki. The game then launched in Japan in January of 2008, so realistically, development was probably complete by December, since physical copies need time to be sent to retailers and such. So while Brawl wasn’t super rushed like Melee, as it had about twice the development time, it didn’t have an especially long development cycle either, despite what the long gap between games would suggest.
character apology videos are my favorite. i think it works better one character per video though like this one. especially with this one explaining the history of the character
Loved this vid and it really made me want to give doc a try! One of the few characters I’ve never played. Great analysis here hopcat, love your content
This is a good video, but Dr. Mario was my favorite Ultimate character back when I played it . His movement and timing feel more melee-like for some reason and he just feels good to play in ways that no other character does in that sluggish ass game. His hits feel so good, his spike is satisfying, and he just has this swag about him especially with his alternate costumes. Once I stopped being concerned with minmaxing ultimate I played Doc exclusively and had a lot more fun with the game.
haven’t played in a few years but Dr. Mario was the first character I picked up. His recovery and speed may not be good but he’s got some good early percent combos, pills being a decent approach tool (reverse b was pretty good for catching people off guard while retreating), one of the best beginner friendly killing moves being down B, seriously even when my opponent was getting used to me you don’t know how many times they let their shield down early and I got a stock. But yes I think everyone should find a low tier in whatever fighting game they play because not only is it good practice for fundamentals but it’s just plain fun bullying high tiers or projectile characters with them
Thanks for explaining a ton of super basic smash concepts/controls like out of shield options that beginners don’t understand and other videos assume they already know
i havent played smash at all for at least a year even though i used too be a huge nerd for many years, but you made me want to pick it up again, thank you
Great video. I've been maining Doc for 2 years now, and I've fully accepted that he's not gonna win me any tournaments but I will always have fun when I play with him.
I haven't played much Smash since Meele (and even then I wasn't very good), but I'm suprised to see you don't talk about his cape for edge garding and general disorientation or his down-smash which used to be amazing. Before my friend-group got seriously competitive, we used to play with items which made his cape a lot better because when you cape a poke-ball or whatever, it becomes yours. However, nothing felt quite as good as caping a space animal recovery and just watching them fall helplessly while their brain struggled to figure out what just happened.
You finally found out about my GUY Dr.Mario ! Bro is just so fun to play ! I really like this type of video, and it feels like you enjoyed making it ! Keep it up man, that is some good content !
