Joe Biden doesn’t seem capable of any of those things if you think of it like that lol Can’t pay attention because he’s 80 Can’t speak properly because his mind wanders Can’t keep chaos at bay because his solution is to make the friendliest decisions his advisors can come up with
I wish the ancient Mesopotamian storytellers could hear this. It would make them proud to know their work would be explained millennia later, and with such a level of respect and insight.
Okay, but who are the Mesopotamians? The Sumerians? Akkadians? Elamites? And in which period? None of these peoples called themselves "Mesopotamians". (That's a construction we came up with somewhere late 19th early 20th century, or perhaps somewhat before that).
@@jjetson403 lmao yeah they might be mind their belief system was chalked up to a toddler adult’s explanation of the world... or maybe they’d be satisfied by the summary lol
My People (Mesopotamian) don’t teach us about that history ! Instead we are learning about who invade us and why that kind of minor stuff Why ? Because it’s what got messenger Abrahim out from his country and went to desert But I think myths are great for imaginations And to know more about our ancestors
@Shibumi Nope, Mesopotamians were the people who lived between the two rivers Tigres and Euphrates. It is literally what the word ''Mesopotamia'' means; between that two rivers. That makes it Iraq today. Elamites are the people who lived in Southwest Iran. So back to the ''who were the Mesopotamians?'' question: it is the Sumerians, Akkadians, Assyrians and Babylonians. Also, it wasn't a millennia ago. J.B. Peterson is talking about the first-ever recorded mythology is 6 millennia ago.
I was thinking about that in the context of Greek mythology (since i am Greek). So, in a sense, the titanomachy (gods vs titans) is an archetype of good versus evil lets say. In the end, it comes down to Typhon vs Zeus. Typhon is this massive terrifying creature that has all the other gods fleeing in terror, except for Zeus, who masters the courage to confront the darkness which is Typhon. However, he gets overwhelmed by the darkness and is therefore incapacitated ( Typhon removes his nerves, making him unable to move). So when darkness overwhelms you, you are truly useless. But after Zeus gets back on his feet (with the aid of Hermes who steals the nerves and places them back in Zeus's body) he bombards Typhon with the thunder, chasing him all the way down to Italy and burrying him under Etna (an active volcano). And thus Zeus becomes King of the Gods. And the King of the gods is the god of thunder. And what does the thunder/lightning do? It shines light into darkness. It chases darkness away, illuminates things, it draws your attention, gets you to look at it (either due to the light or the loud sound), its the weapon used to defeat darkness/Typhon. There could be deeper meaning to the story but thats just roughly how i see it.
Nasus The Curator Of Sands Wow man thanks for the insight! The same idea is there, the thunder idea of illuminating what's unknown and chaos makes a lot if sense. I suppose that it's a plot so ancient and important for the continuation of civilizations that virtually all myths and stories from religions have to make reference to. I mean to the idea of chaos and order and the hero.
There is also parallels to Thor's(God of Thunder) fight against JÖRMUNGANDR, the world serpent and also what Peterson mentions here about "capturing" the darkness. He baits the monster, capturing it and then kills it. The same happens to Fenrir, being bound
Incorrect; it should be that which perceives with utmost clarity and can keep EVIL at bay by the delicate melding of chaos and order. Conservatives love to think they are the only barrier between the world and evil when really they are afraid of the chaos required to maintain an absolutely untarnished perception; and in so doing become as Osiris was described in the video "Egyptian Gods" on this channel; willfully blind.
I would recommend a lecture by someone who specializes in the field- look up Andrew George, he is a professional Assyriologist and has some lecture on RU-vid. Peterson doesn't know what he is talking about here.
@@cmtat1976 I have a degree in history and in linguistics, with my focus being Mesopotamian languages and history. I am intimately familiar with Enuma Elish as well as their other myths and have read them in the original languages, as well as having read scholarship on the issue.
After hearing about the Enuma Elish, it's not too hard to find lots of material about it. The issue is first hearing about it. Glad you enjoyed it though!
The reason that you don't hear about this on the net or in the majority of universities is because this is outside the realm of most people's understanding. You are not supposed to know about the archaeological historical history of the earth that would make you a danger to the oligarchy and the pantheon of demonic fallen angels and their children the Nephilim. See Genesis 6:4 have fun with some Chuck Missler and look into the pathology of giants. I.e. the Smithsonian cover up.
@@deefazhion It doesn't matter what qualifications @miles or peters have. It's about citing sources. perters isn't citing any. he's making connections as he sees fit. If you listen to actual historians, everything is framed as a leading theory or one of several possibilities, with clear distinctions of what's known (little), what's likely and the archaeological evidence to back the theories. this guy just spouts every connection as if it's a historical fact and as if he's reading the minds of the gods. even, if by accident he's right about some of these things, there's little reason to believe him till he cites some proper sources.
I could listen to Mr Peterson all day long... For someone with attention and learning difficulties, that's saying something! It's the articulation and explanatory embodiment he creates. ;-)
Marduk reminds me a lot of The All-Father Odin Marduk can speak the magic words. Odin can speak the magic of the runes Marduk has eyes all around his head, allowing him to see more than others. Odin has one eye, yet he can see far more than others. Marduk is king of the gods. Odin is king of the Norse gods Marduk slain Tiamat, a primordial being and used pieces of him to make the world. Odin and his brothers slain Ymir, also a primordial being and creates Midgard from his body
As Dr. Peterson has said before, the god from one set of gods who arises as dominant will be very similar to the god from another set of gods who arises as dominant. They represent civilizations ideas, views and values, and due to human similarity, they won't be that different. Many parallels can also be drawn between the respective 'king of gods' of most if not all mythologies.
Ymir isn't really primordial he doesn't embody any aspect of our nature he is simply an old being. Also Odin isn't king as much as lord in the sense of zues and marduck and such. He is simply oldest and most respected for his wisdom. He isn't a formal leader he is simply remaining from the beings who defeated ymir. Yet you have some very good points. A lot of the aspects that garner respect for him are embodied in marduck. I encourage you to check out Jordan's other lecture. In which he describes the beings who always inevitably top the dominance hierarchy as being remarkably similar. Swing as humans always after long consideration come to a similar conclusion of why we are dominant and what aspects that we have are so important.
@@Cmusko427 Primordial being simply means that it is one of the first beings to exist, and Ymir is literally the first being to exist in the Norse cosmogony. Odin is, in fact, the king of the Æsir, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about here.
All of the pagan myths and lore have a common origin in the first civilization of Ancient Sumeria (Ancient Mesopotamia). They have changed over the years in different locations and languages but at essence are talking about the same deities and the same historical happenings. Some of these are based on stories that were a prefiguring of the coming of Christ, passed to different civilizations such as the Persians from the ancient prophets. Odin sacrificed himself by hanging from a tree. Thor slays Jormungandr... the God of the Bible slays the Leviathan etc. Everyone at one time worshipped the One God but after the "fall" began to take up all sorts of things as God, the stars, the animals, other humans etc. and made statues to them, or rather this was the fall. Every pagan tradition has the idea of an unspeakable "God above the gods" or at the very least a god that is chief among them. This gets interesting for me because I sympathize with nationalist circles and many of these nationalists try to argue that we should not be Christian as Christianity is a semitic religion from the middle east, they instead cling to Nordic paganism or the like (which not much is actually known about). I try to explain to them that if you go back far enough even the Nordic myths find an origin in the middle east, as does humanity.
Peterson's views on stories has made me realise the significance and maintained relevance of them today. Gilgamesh: "He who saw the abyss" Beowulf: Overcoming the child, the mother and the dragon St. George: The bravery and potential ultimate self sacrifice to face the dragon which requires sacrifices to be appeased
I've only known of Jordan Peterson for a month and already parts of my life are being illuminated. His words are helping me get my life together. JP for president 2020.
I advise you to watch the vid where he splits his Psyche in half or something like that, just type in Jordan splits his Psyche and it should be the first one you will not regret it and have a nice 2020
I love the parallels here in other culture with regard to the Mesopotamian gods making their home on the deadbody of Absu: the great-he-she called Atum in Egypt who disintegrates into the gods; the dismemberment of Ymir by the gods; the sacrifice of Purusha to Purusha himself to create all beings.
Marduk in the subtities gets to be mark Martic, Mark and Marck. In the end of the speech he says "someone else should be emperor". Thank you forr emphasizing the idea algorythm text ;)
It’s quite interesting. The Mesopotamian gods have persisted through culture and time. They have names in Greek, Roman, Norse, and other cultures. What hit me the hardest was how Jordan Peterson discussed how war & love (lust) are gods because they are undying and control you. It’s no different from today where we think secular culture is the predominant mental process or belief. If you live your life ruled by anger and violence or passion and lust (among the various emotions), it’s no different from how ancient people worshipped “gods” (rituals aside). You have to serve somebody, right?
Although I found this interpretation interesting, I don't agree with much of this analysis. For example, the gods did not kill Apsu because they didn't understand their dependence on him. They killed him because he planned to kill them. Apsu was not a god of culture. He was an elemental being who simply wanted to sleep. Also, the net had nothing to do with encapsulating and forming a conceptualization. The net was a way of tying the Enuma Elish myth to the earlier myth of the Anzu bird (that followed the same theme) --a net is used to capture birds.The Enuma Elish was not a philosophical myth, nor was it the product of subconscious insight. It was a contrived political myth used to drive home the message of the need to remain loyal to the Babylonian king (Marduk's earthly manifestation).
As a descendant of Mesopotamia (I'm Assyrian) I'm very proud hearing JP speaking about my former empire, always interesting to hear about your heritage, especially when it is JP who is speaking!
He's wrong on almost all accounts. I wonder whether he has even read the Enuma Elish, because he doesn't mention really that this is all just one single account of creation, but there are so many more mesopotamian myths. He ignores the entire historical context of the Enuma Elish too. Its a babylonian story from the mid second millennium, that is relatively late. There were already far older myths around at that time. The Marduk creation story aimed to overwrite these older stories and replace and older mythology with the figure of Marduk, as much as Babylon claimed dominance over all of Mesopotamia. Enuma Elish is not a single account which represents anything about the world view as whole. It represents the narrative of a small babylonian elite. Abzu is not killed. Only Enki lives in the Abzu. Qingu is a not a demon king or anything related to Satan. Human creation was also explained in other myths, chiefly Atram Hasis, where humans are made from another rebellious god, who was basically from the working class gods. Even the Akitu ceremony he mentions goes back to older myths centred around Lugalbanda instead of Marduk.
Thanks for cutting this up. It's so interesting to see it all strung together without Peterson's psychological analysis. I've never viewed his lectures this way. Thank You! And Thank You Jordan Peterson for providing such a well-articulated demonstration of the Mesopotamian Mythology.
For those that are curious: this is the enuma elish. Apsu is killed by the wisest god, Enki, bc Apsu was going to kill them for making a racket and disturbing his rest. Not really a parable of killing culture as it is a parable of the process of creation. The younger gods were a noisy and chaotic, disturbing the established order. When the established order (eg apsu) tries to subdue them they kill it in order to survive. Tiamat raises the forces of chaos to gain vengence but the gods put her down, and in the process grow up to become the new rulers of order. Creation is a tumultuous process whereby change brings destruction to make way for new things. It literally transforms the old order into a new one as we see in the story.
At 10:28, the difference between humans and animals is not deception. Animals use deception all the time through the use of camouflage. The difference between humans and animals is the ability to Conceptualize. With that we can create, and overcome, instinct, and our limitations.
You should not underestimate the ancient Sumerians! You may not be sure that notions of the shape of the earth belong to ancient cultures or this is mixed with recent childhood misconceptions.
I always wondered, HOW the heck people came up with not only one unspecific god, but with a full Pantheon. I suspected the (maybe unintentional) consumption of psychoactive herbs and other plants, buts this three-point-characterisation is just brilliant. Know this and you "know" the source of (virtually) every ancient religion.
I'm sorry, I usually agree with everything Peterson says but, "humans are the only creatures capable of deception and malevolence" is the line of all lines. If he really believes that he might be wrapped a little too deeply in the field of psychology and a bit out of touch with the physical world around him. Animals do horrible things to each other, particularly to babies... and I'm not even talking about for food I mean just for sport. Pretty much any animal with a somewhat complex social structure commits HORRIBLE atrocities and it doesn't take much prolonged observation at all to see it. Deception is something that even insects are capable of. I'm not joking around spiders can use deception quite well. There is a type of spider that knows to pluck the web of other spiders to bring them in for an ambush. Is that not deception? Peterson might write this off as them just following their natural instinct... is that not what humans are doing? Are we not all play things of the gods?
Humans are animals of deception. What separates us from the other animals is that we deceive OURSELVES. This is because we are capable of complex thought. Thus, we can convince ourselves that we are something we are not. We constantly deceive ourselves.
The way he explains everything in such a manner , so comprehensibly and easy . I could listen to him for long time . All teachers, professors should be like that .
As a person who is heavily influenced by postmodern philosophy, this is amazing. He flippantly dismisses postmodernism, then proceeds to go down a thought process which stops about 1 paragraph away from Foucault, Derrida, Heidegger, etc. He sees the metaphysical transformation at work; the determination that the highest and most central aspect of the human organism is the organ of language. The next logical questions, which he doesn't ask, would then be; how does this determination reflect modalities of power, and how does this monopolization of linguistic clarity come to silence embodied forms of knowledge and voices of dissent? If language is determined to be the highest god, then how do the particularities of certain language games play a role in the consolidation of inter-personal and intra-personal power structures?
This is the Babylonian version of the Sumerian creation story. Marduk was their dom8nant deity. Other cultures in Mesopotamia had other gods defeating teaimat
I'm very impressed very few Scholars have the wherewithal to try to take on the Mesopotamian Scrolls and the Babylonian cuneiform Wheels. This makes you A Cut Above. My hat goes off to you sir. Carry on.
It's crazy that these ideas proliferated in every culture in some shape or form. The egyptians had the incarnation of horus as their pharao (horus conceptionalized as the all-seing eye) and acted out the retrieval of the eye through their temple ceremonies. Then with the mesopotamiens it was Marduk as their king who was LITERALLY all-seing because he had eyes all around his head. These strange analogies really make me believe in Peterson's interpretations. There is some strange wisdom within these old stories...
He was predicted 2020. This is out of head of everything. Everything collapsed as Mother Earth is sick and the only way to make Her healthy again is to come together, talk together and stick together. The lesson God wanted us to learn for so much times.
It still boggles my mind how many people come to these videos with the express purpose of typing negative comments with little to no basis. They are clearly premeditated and not the words of someone accidentally stumbling upon something they disagree with.
JP believes we are or posses "a host of personalities" (spirits) of conflicting desires. "Either we make Gods in those images and we are controlled by them, or they who are in us make us in their image." Oh boy how he is deceived by the dragon.
A simple and straightforward video title. Imagine that. You deserve a like. And it looks like I've already subscribed to you. I guess i knew what I was doing.
He says one thing in this talk that is absolutely patently false. Human beings are NOT the only animals that are capable of voluntary deception. This is quite common throughout the animal world
I just thought of the fact that Kingu sounds alot like Godzilla. Godzilla and the Kaiju basically are the same archetypes of Kingu and the chimera that Peterson speaks of. At the Command of Tiamat who is mother nature they will wipe out her opposition. In the case of the Kaiju,humanity is the opposition who have taken too much from mother earth for too long.
If there is one person I could ever wish to talk to it would be you, I can translate through life through what I have lived. And I know exactly what you say every time. I'm a student that isn't yours that can completely understand you
The concept of malevolence and deceit exists in all animals but the only difference is humans can act out these voluntarily and with malicious intent thats premeditated. All other animals act out these as a necessity at times and/or without any intent/accidentally.
Dear sir I follow a lot of your lectures, but unfortunately just as they are getting juicy they come to a sudden end. Many of your utube upload are 10 15 min duration which I believe r edited for the complex subjects where can I get the detailed lectures comprehensively dealing with the subject matter. I am from India.
Incase some of you are interested in the story google enuma eliš/elish its basically the babylonian way to underline their earthly superiority withing the world of goods (marduk is the city god of babylon)
3:05 a hitmarker sound plays...idk if its SFX or the actual lapel mic lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Also, the interlinking stories of Gods (Or heroes) of Order defeating the Dragons of Chaos i.e. Zeus killing Typhon, Marduk killing Tiamat, God (or Baal Hadad) killing Leviathan, Thor killing Jörmungandr and Ragnar Lodbrok killing Oroborous
It seems that the Mesopotamians were trying to make sense of the external environment (natural phenomena), but also internal environments (social behavior and the effects of civilization). Interestingly, they deduced that the existence of multiple gods wasn’t sufficient to defeat chaos, but that the appointment of one, communicative and all-observing, god is enough to produce order. Not that they forgot about the other gods, but this one god is the intelligence that knows the eternal and controlling manifestations of the personalities associated with those gods. It’s interesting how this somewhat bleeds into Judeo-Christian beliefs of the one god that prescribes humans on how to avoid the controlling temptations of sex, power, hungry, anger, etc. I’m not saying that Judeo-Christians, and maybe even Muslims, plagiarized from ancient scriptures, but merely propagated the story, with time being a factor of interpolation. People change the names and the numbers, but the undertones remain intact for the most part.
10:30 Explain to me how humans are the only creatures capable of deception. Lots of animals have quite frankly mastered it and some predators toy with their prey or kill for sport.
Dude we should Have State Philosophers and we dont because immediately that would keep people in check but we dont and i think thats for good reason. So this kind of times people can spread the word of How to Keep Your leader humble and how the Common Philosophy of the People is, you need us as well.
The problem I think is thinking of them purely as religious stories. Like the Hebrew Bible the story is religious in nature but the stories within can be based on real things. Absu being fresh water and going into a rage about his loud children planning to kill them all makes me think of a massive river flood. And then Tiamat the salt water attacking in revenge sounds like a salt water flood. Which makes sense for the area. The rivers flood, it could be devastating to early communities located in their edge. And the Persian Gulf did flood a valley to form the current coastline. So if a devastating river flood happened and soon after the Persian Gulf started filling up the valley you lived in, it would be like being attacked by the gods of fresh water and salt water. Then even more interesting is Marduk(or whichever god is in the story which depends on which one was the most important god in that city) kills Tiamat. Now this makes me think of the possible meteor impact site located in the Persian gulf region. It’s a mostly dry lake bed today, but remove a few thousand years of silt fill from the rivers and it would have struck in 10m of water in the Persian gulf. So, if it happened to hit around the same time the gulf waters stopped noticeable rising then it would have looked like a battle f the gods with some god above striking the god of the salt water directly. Spilling Tiamat a entrails about, etc etc. basically it could just be an old story about two floods that happened near one another and a meteor impact. Again, we can look at them as purely religious in nature, but I think that maybe with further context we could identify events that would match up with old stories, maybe not exactly, but enough to get more out of it.
Inanna is the ancient Sumerian goddess of love, sensuality, fertility, procreation, and also of war. She later became identified by the Akkadians and Assyrians as the goddess Ishtar, and further with the Hittite Sauska, the Phoenician Astarte and the Greek Aphrodite, then ishtar became easter In Bible
Once you learn about Mesopotamian Gods, you understand where Genesis and Yahweh came. Every question about Yahweh is solved when you think about him as a Mesopotamian God.
Tis’ the same for me. Though personally, I stared with the Norse gods as my benchmark because they feel more real to me, I feel close to them than any other gods. That’s not to say say I would ever dismiss someone who’s says to me they feel closer to Buddha. Everyone is different, everyone has their own beliefs. No one should ever force the other to believe in their beliefs
