Metal Sonic Is Lame Now? 

Do you like the current portrayal of metal sonic? Or do you think he’s not being used right?

Metal Sonic peaked in Sonic OVA and Heroes.

I agree with Ian Flynn, there always has to be a plan to defeat Metal Sonic. And he almost killed Surge but he was taken down because Kit saved Surge

The one problem I had with Metal Sonic lately was that he appears way too much and he never seems to have a soul Purpose. I really wish someday they could bring him back with a real story arc.

I dont think anyone believes that Metal Sonic is washed up. He is still very relevant and loved by most Sonic fans. I hope they bring him back as a boss battle in the next Sonic game.

Metal sonic isnt even classified as a boss battle in forces. The problem isnt that he always loses, its that he never WINS

Ian Flynn: "He's not a jobber" Also Ian Flynn: "He's the bad guy he has to lose everytime"

As someone who watches wrestling and the phase jobbing getting thrown around a lot, personally you can't lose too much because people will stop caring about "Why he lost" and will just talk about "He lost". A funny comparison atm actually is John Cena. Like Metal Sonic, he's at a point where he's lost so many times that now it doesn't even really help your career beating him nowadays.

I like the way Metal was portrayed in Sonic Mania Adventures, specifically, during his encounter with Mighty & Ray, the way he systematically goes about getting the chaos emerald from Mighty, basically threatening to crush Rays neck if Mighty tries anything, all without saying a word, the quick glances to Mighty’s “pocket” were very chilling, because we all knew what he was saying, “I know you have the chaos emerald, give it to me or I won’t hesitate to crush this yellow rodent’s windpipe.” He has an objective, and he makes sure he completes it. That brutality is something that really caught me off guard, and I love that part of Metal Sonic. Another great depiction of Metal that I really enjoy is the IDW version. The way Metal looks at Eggman and clenches his fist when he’s told he can’t go after Sonic, or how he was about to go without being ordered to. That resentment towards Sonic isn’t something we see anymore, and it’s really disappointing.

*At least in the comics, he is a bit of a menace. But even the comics have hit a bit of a wall now 😅.* Sega needs to lift those restrictions for real...

You are right. Nowadays, metal sonic is just a side character for Sonic to destroy every time

The hype metal used to have is something i miss

He will never be lame to me he is my favorite character

i can see why ppl feel that way with metal, in the games hes pretty much just been a fodder robot boss and is treated as just one of eggman's henchmen heroes is the only game to expand on him as a character, its the only game where we've seen him actively try and overcome sonic on his own terms and it shows up how he feels towards him with his inferiority complex, why he wants to complete the purpose he was created for and how he proclaims that he is the real sonic during the final boss

Bro went from the ultimate rival to Sonic to just being a ordinary robot

Flynn has a solid point. Metal did lose, but not in a jober way. Surge would of been killed if Kit didn't blindside Metal. unless Egman have those EM shielding installed in Metal, would be controled as a little puppet for the deadly six. Sure the anggle island felt a bit anticlimatic as to how he was defeated, but it was still epic. The real problem is Metal is overused like Green Hill zone. While it was fun to see him back, unless they switch him up like Heroes or Frontiers, you really don't have a lot of things for him to do than to be a loyal badnik soldier for Eggman to command.

Very interesting stuff here! I’m quite fond of this informative video essay type stuff. After hearing what Ian Flynn said there, I’ve kind of changed my perspective a bit.

I think what would help is if Sega introduced a few more reoccurring villains into the rotation. 99% of the time it's Eggman or villains who only last for one game. It's what marvel and DC do to make fans forget that basically all the villains are lame and are always defeated

He should come back in the games and making him interesting. Also he should have his voice back.

The characters could have been defeated and imprisoned by Metal Sonic in Frontiers. And he could have been an NPC on Ouranos Island.

Though the reply given related to the Metal Sonic issue was fair, it still comes down to the point that Metal Sonic potential is wasted to some extent. I personally didn't have much problems with him even on IDW nor do I expect any serious battles coming from his side.. but if we consider his entire legacy related with his ideology.. let me just give just a trait of what Metal Sonic clearly meant to represent, an ultimate creation done by Robotnik to go toe to toe with Sonic and give Sonic run for his money. Being a complete sort a "DARK" reflection of the hedgehog you did expect more coming from his side, I like the idea of keeping him mysterious and later on dragging him out of his shadows as a surprise enemy overall.. ultimately they **FAILED** to use the potential Metal Sonic has. Kids comic or not, it isn't bound to how the story should be described. Metal Sonic should have been treated as a main threat, and to be honest due to Eggman being thrown back and also treated like a joke that had clearly left an impact on Metal Sonic as well.. just because Metal Sonic haven't been shown much of a legacy nor had he left any behind doesn't means he should be treated far worse than the rest of the cast. You need to treat the characters with depth of their potential rather than a temporary obstacle for the hero to deal with to some extent when it comes to those like Metal Sonic. He can reach faster than Sonic, be more durable and so much more yet he... is still at the end just like most of the characters as if today mostly **VILLAINS** thrown off from their glory. This is my opinion so farewell.

I… don’t really have much of a problem with how Metal is treated in the series. Sure the Battle for Angel Island arc with him may have felt a bit anticlimactic at the end, but outside of that, I think he’s portrayed fine. Although it would be nice to see Neo Metal return in the games again and receive a proper boss fight. If anything, I think Metal gets too much attention. I wish we could see some more of the other Sonic robots return aside from him. It would be cool to see the Mecha Sonic line more. At least with Mk.I, he gets a skin in Superstars. And Mk.II gets a story arc in the IDW Comics. So I guess they aren’t completely forgotten by SEGA.

Look how they mascaraed my boy

He's kinda like "Classic Sonic", because most of the time he's not allowed to talk or have a personality besides "I'm a robot from Eggman, oh there's Sonic let's kill him". And I think that's what actually bothers people. Though, personally I think if they brought the Heroes characterization back he'd end up being nothing but a better Infinite after a while.

"One of the first ever rivals" You could even remove "One of"

I think it would at least be fun if we they set up a new villain threat, only to pull out the rug from under us and have Metal Sonic be revealed as the actual threat, destroying the fake threat

I wouldn't mind another sequence of Metal leaving Eggman again to become himself and retrieve Eggman's former machines who are broken down

I don't know if he's lame because for me, he is pretty cool. I don't know why but he just is🙃

Nice video! I’ve been waiting for this one. In my opinion though I feel like Metal Sonic fell off a lot after heroes, but he’s still a cool character.

Crazy how metal sonic lost to a wall

I think metal sonic is cool but the problem is what ruins him metal sonic has more potential as an enemy of sonic. And in heroes is confirmed evidence and proof that metal Sonic gives so much more depth on Why he became metal madness/overlord

We have to have some sort of Metal Sonic related Arc that starts with him casually speedblitzing an entire army. Ain't nobody calling him a jobber then.

In the games Metal Sonic peaked in Heroes. Only time he was better than that was during Archie comics.

3:20 did you guys realize that metal sonic has a mouth in this box art

I mean the meta narrative says he's meant to be defeated by Sonic or Shadow , his first fight against sonic ended in the most humiliating way possible and usually if you are not Sonic or shadow specifically you need to jump him to have a chance at beating him.

I'm pretty sure Metal is the most full-tilt when it comes to actually killing Sonic, more-so then even Robotnik himself!

3:10 fun fact on the us box art of cd he actually has a mouth

To be honest no character is the same as the old characters! Even Flynn can't change them!!!

6:01 there have only be 2 instances where Metal Sonic betrays his own creator and try to over throw him heroes and free riders did this I don’t know in the comics because I’m not comic person

R.I.P. metal sonic, my favorite character boi 😔🫡

I disagree that a villain's roll is to lose. On the contrary, a villain must win until the very end, at the climax of the story when the hero finally rises to the occassion. Until that point, the villain must have the upper hand, otherwise there is no real threat. If a character is losing consistently, especially in minor fights with side characters, he's just jobbing.

i just love how Ian was basically calling himself old when he talked about the question of why metal sonic is lame now

Honestly, they should just make Metal Sonic not appear every 5th Issue and get defeated within 3 Pages or him being a bit out of character, hope they will continue with the Identity Crisis thing (Reflection short comic)

i think i saw in a comic or a youtube short or something, metal sonic finds out what he is

Please do more videos like this, I love hearing your opinions and the 1-2min blurbs of Ian Flynn talking it’s nice

Sega: Next year is going to be the year of metal sonic!

Metal sonic was good in mania but he was sadly washed up in forces why do they have to do that to my boy

Metal Sonic does well what so many other 'rivals' struggle with. A consistent threat, who is routinely defeated, but still a valid threat challenge. Sonic often wins but doesn't become stronger than Metal with every win.

I think your Sega is gonna build something up with metal sonic that’s gonna be big having his butt just think about it. They do that a lot right

Metal Sonic reminds me a lot of General Grievous. The 2003 Clone Wars series made Grievous a nearly unstoppable mechanical nightmare. He defeated teams of jedi knights and masters. Successfully beating Shaak Ti and capturing Palpatine. However, the 2008 Clone Wars series reduced Grievous to a total jobber. Losing to everyone from padawans to gungans. Same thing happened to Metal Sonic. He went from challenging multiple teams and Super Sonic all at the same time. To getting demolished by characters in their base forms with no power-ups.

He forgot about Rocket Metal Sonic. If you dont know who is Rocket Metal Sonic he appears and only appears in Sonic The Fighters for like 3 seconds.

I think he probably deserves more but I think he has gotten a lot, especially when he turned into neo metal sonic, that was really cool, and I think his character has more lore than just “a battle in a bunch of sonic games” I think metal sonic thinks of himself in that way and eventually he is going to get his biggest moment yet I think the devs are trying to prepare us for some big moment where metal sonic will win, but of course, the heroes are eventually gonna win, because, it is sonic but metal sonic will be the main villain and at least beats sonic.

Not to be that guy, but I personally believe Ian's statement singlehandly stomps out the: "Metal Sonic is Lame now" Idea. But this also comes from the fact that I well.... completely agree with Ian🤷‍♂

Well, just because Metal is supposed to be losing as a villain doesn’t mean he can win a few times, or, even make him the main villain of a game again

Ah, yes, my favorite sonic character, and i so wish i saw him less frequently so i can actually fear him

no i think the writers haven’t found a place for him that’s it the second they do we will have a banger

Metal Sonic wouldn’t be a threat especially if sonic has the chaos emeralds but he’s going to the junkyard if sonic is in his hyper form which his hyper form was only shown in sonic 3 and knuckles and hopefully they bring it back

Metal Sonic is my favourite character. It's weird because I like him more than the characters that get more screen time. The characters that get more screen time tend to get more people to like them but Metal Sonic seems to be an exception. I would like to hear more opinions on this matter.

I disagree with Ian Flynn's reasoning. The problem isn't that he is more prolific now. It's that the pacing of the current comic sucks. In this entire discussion, Archie was never broached. You know how much of a threat Metal Sonic was in that comic? He put down one of the core Freedom Fighters! The IDW equivalent would be if Belle or Whisper went down (There's no direct one-for-one with Antoine). The guy was supposed to die, but instead spent the next 20 issues in a coma! We have a threat, we have stakes, we have lasting consequences that would've lasted long after Antoine got better! Yeah, Surge was almost merced by Metal Sonic. The fight lasted 1-2 issues, and had no lingering consequences. Yeah, young/classic Amy spent an entire special trying to avoid a fight with Metal Sonic. But then the guy was trapped in the end, and, again, no consequences. I don't blame Ian. It's obviously restrictions from on-high. It just bugs me how "Nah guys, here's what you're missing!" about something that sucks because of Sega. I wouldn't call Metal Sonic a Koopa. He's a mid-boss. Presently, a mid-boss, in the process of falling down to the state of "first boss". Better than a grunt, but nothing really scary. (Metal Sonic got jobbed a lot in Archie, but that was more acceptable because, for years, there were multiple Metal Sonics. So of course the threat of each appearance would go down. But you always got the sense that the level of danger increased when he, or different Metal, showed up. This changed in the last stretch of the main Archie canon, as Sega mandated that there be only 1 Metal Sonic. Notably he, apparently, killed the turned-good Metal Sonic, Shard. Afterwards, you had Metal and Roboticized Sally teaming up to run missions across Mobius, and shit got spooky. Sorry for the rant but I loved that comic.)

To be fair I like metal knuckles more than metal sonic

Idk that much about newer sonic, but metal overlord is the best metal sonic to this day. That is the one moment that made metal sonic super cool to me.

I hope His next Major appearance, Doesn't end in his Destruction, It Feels like Metal should, at This point, be More than Being Just this one and Done Boss Fight. He's Failed So many times, You kinda feel bad, I wanna see him Win, in Some way.

I know what a VCR is. I didn't live under a rock

Metal's problem isn't that he always loses. It's that everyone misses why he loses each time due to how the conversation isn't "why this outcome happened", but rather, simply "this outcome happened". He's being used right, it's just that he has REALLY bad luck when it comes to earning Ws in that he aims big every time. Every single time we've seen Metal, it's been in a situation where a force that wasn't in his control led to his defeat. Here's a mostly-complete list of notable confounding factors, in a pattern that I believe to be roughly chronological (I may have missed some): Stardust Speedway? Built for speed, not sudden unexpected decelerations. Triple Trouble? Repaired and rebuilt to handle both extreme accelerations and decelerations, wasn't remade to withstand all that many hits compared to Sonic. Selector (Chaotix)? Tried to isolate himself, couldn't quite do that while still controlling the machinery. Kai (Chaotix)? Built for hit-and-run attacks, not equipped to handle his transformation. He was barely holding it together in that fight; two enemy combatants (even if technically just one) was just too much for him to handle. Sonic the Fighters? As you said, he's an absolute menace in this game. This one was just a straight-up case of Metal Sonic doing what Metal Sonic does best and the one who confronted him coming out on top because they were just legitimately a better fighter, even if it would be a close match. Speedway (Mania)? See "Selector (Chaotix)". Kaiju (Mania)? Managed to harness the Phantom Ruby properly, failed to account for the exposed weak point it resulted in and had no way to change it mid-fight. Mania Adventures? Actually a legitimate threat, but Knuckles absolutely blindsided him. That guy was able to punch the emeralds out of Super Sonic; what hope did Metal have to stand against him? Speedway (Mania Plus)? Same location, same tools, same outcome because both sides had learned. Can't really blame him on this one. Kaiju (Mania Plus)? See "Speedway (Mania Plus)". Cyber Station (Superstars)? Strictly speaking, that wasn't Metal Sonic, but instead one of Eggman's Metal Fighters. It just has the potential to look like Metal Sonic due to how modular they are. Sonic 4 encounter 1 (White Park)? He was shaking out the rust after being inactive for so long. He'd only just gone through the events of Episode Metal and was still getting adjusted to his new upgrades. Sonic 4 encounter 2 (Sky Chase)? That was his first time piloting an aircraft. I'm honestly kinda impressed that he managed to fly in the way he did as a first-timer with a hostile aircraft that had a much more seasoned pilot at its' helm. Neo Metal (Heroes)? Figured out how to handle multiple combatants, wasn't equipped to handle that many all at once at first, but transcended that limitation by becoming the Metal Overlord. Metal Overlord (Heroes)? Able to handle multiple combatants with ease (he faced off against twelve at once!), wasn't built to handle three super-powered individuals all at once. Generations? It was Sonic's memories of the fight. Of course he'd lose again; that's what's happened every single time he's done a rematch in the same place with the same tools at his disposal! Forces? That wasn't actually Metal Sonic, but a phantom copy that Infinite made. Technically speaking, Metal was never present due to being upgraded into. Neo Metal (IDW)? It's Shadow. Shadow's the ultimate life form. Sonic never wins against Shadow without outside factors like getting the drop on him; Neo Metal actually managed to technically win by getting Shadow to engage so he could upgrade. Master Overlord (IDW)? He had almost all of it figured out, only for him to be hoisted by his own petard. The Master Emerald was powering him. Pop that out, and his reserve power runs down FAST thanks to how Shadow's biodata is a massive energy hog when in active use, and he can't go Metal Overlord without using Shadow's biodata. Thus, pop out the power source and he goes down like a computer being unplugged. Plus, Knuckles knows the Master Emerald's strengths and weaknesses inside and out. Infection arc (IDW)? He actually won this one due to teaming up with Starline. Silver may have telekinetically thrown him, but he got right back up. Only reason he didn't continue the fight is because he couldn't get back fast enough. All or Nothing arc (IDW)? The zeti can control metal objects. They pulled the same stunt against Gemerl. Metal didn't stand a chance against them. Next! Out of the Blue arc (IDW)? He actually won this one, straight-up. He wasn't there to fight, he was there to retrieve Orbot and Cubot, and he succeeded in that goal. Then, he was sent to delay Shadow, and did exactly that. A rare, clean W for Metal, even if rather non-spectacular of one. Impostor Syndrome arc (IDW)? Surge had Kitsunami on her side AND she was built to surpass Sonic as well. Sure, Metal had the upper hand while Surge was on her own (very nearly ended her), but as soon as Kit got involved, the tables turned, and _fast._ Battle for the Empire arc (IDW)? He was winning... and then had to head back to protect Eggman. Plus, it was a narrow alleyway that had several corners and heavy crates that he needed to pull himself out from under when the group used the environment to their advantage. Overpowered arc (IDW)? Even match against Sonic, and then he was actually winning against Surge... right up until she used the Dynamo Cage. the Dynamo Cage sucks up energy. Metal Sonic runs on energy and can't function without it. You get the picture, right? Urban Warfare arc (IDW)? He was actually winning this one until the group managed to inconvenience him with rubble for just long enough to flee and lose him. He even let Tangle lead him right to the others! He couldn't help it that Sonic's side was using their surroundings to their advantage, which includes tangle blinding his sensors... 900th adventure (IDW)? The Warp Topaz is a fickle thing, OK?

I'm surprised Ian had to explain that, though I guess it's not often made clear in the video games. At least from how he's sometimes shown in the comics, I always remember Metal as a high tension threat, that makes the difference between flesh and machine clear. You NEED someone like Sonic who can deal with Metal quickly, or else it'd be hopeless. It's only thanks to the programming that makes Metal a threat, also being what makes Metal go rogue sometimes, that Eggman hasn't just made a truly unstoppable army.

It is my birthday today, so i must ask a question that only people with growing maturity must ask!✊ If Sonic's leg was accidentally ran over by a Troublesome Truck what would be the first sound he would make?

He is still one of my faves sill

I mean metal Sonic is in my top 10 top four maybe Sonic characters of all time so I think he should comeback :)

0:01 YOU KNOW EVERYTHING IM GONNA DO. BUT THATS NOT GONNA HELP YOU CAUSE I KNOW EVERYTHING YOUR GONNA DO! STRANGE ISNT IT?!

I mean we did have chaos sonic once

For someone so threatening and strong, he has gotten the wrong opponents to kinda truly show that I mean, he can lose, but story wise, if you want the villain to be taken seriously, make them win in ways to keep a suspense, right? Also, these super forms my metal man takes take away from just base metal, but oh well, my thoughts and all could be just wrong for all i know

What are your opinion on scrapnikisland metal sonic

I remember the metal sonic drip gang 😭 Csdg on top tho

The bigger issue is that IDW overuses Metal Sonic leading to him having to job to everyone and their mother because otherwise you'd have to rely on Sonic to beat him EVERY time which would get tedious if it happened to often. Metal Sonic ISN'T Eggman's enforcer and IDW shouldn't treat him like one, he's a special weapon that Eggman made to take on Sonic and should be treated as something that comes out in special situations. Eggman has a million badniks, he shouldn't be sending out Metal Sonic all the time and if anything he should be fighting Sonic more in his mechs. His lack of usage is what built up his menace as he was treated as a force to match Sonic, regardless of how it may have come off in gameplay. He SHOULD be someone that only those on the level of Sonic can beat and with a good amount of effort, not someone who comes out because he's an easy character to throw out because the comic needs sufficient enough obstacle in the path of the heroes.

judging by the fact sega wants to say all the games are canon, it would make sense for metal sonic to be a recreation of the sonic way back in CD. Meaning, as a mere machine, while sonic got stronger and faster, metal sonic could not. Thus, apart from the whole overlord thing he did in heroes, could he really keep up now?

strange, isn’t It?

never stop

Metal always has and always will be awesome. He isnt washed up. Metal Overlord is still my favorite boss

It isnt that he's lame or uncool, Its the fact that he has no personality outside of being a Eggman robot. We know that he wants to be the one true Sonic but outside of that there's practically nothing, Ian, Sega or any of the writers aren't doing anything to make Metal Sonic interesting at all.

I hope metal can be redeemed, he hasn’t appeared much

For a metal sonic fan I can agree with you

Does anyone know how I can get a Torando in Sonic Speed Simulator without robux?

What's with the sonic comics making sonic characters try to redeem metal sonic

Maybe in the next mainline game metal could be a bigger threat

i feel like metal should lose battles in idw but i feel like it should be more like it just slows him down like in the issue were tails kit sonic and bell had to escape from eggmans city

YOU MIGHT KNOW WHAT I’M GOING TO DO (Start a chain)

I overall like the video, but the audio clipping-esque noises from your edits is, and Im sorry there's no polite way to put this, grating. are you all looking for an editor?

Coolll!!!! Sonic hub

hi sonic hub fam

in my opinion Metal Sonic needs his own enemy which is not Sonic an charackter like Metal Sonic 3.0

Why do comments not appear when I click on a video

Surge is the “bad guy” and she gets some W’s in. Ian Flynn should do the same for metal. Also why does Metal get beat AGAIN in the Surge vs Sonic/Metal fight, but Sonic doesn’t get knocked out. I’m starting to think the writer likes to use Metal as a punching bag…What’s wrong? Did Metal Sonic beat you to much at stardust speedway as a kid and now your taking it out on him Ian? 😂

I like metal sonic It's just that I think he's not as powerful as shadow or sonic

Sonichub I was the kid that you said my name and when you were speed running the metal madness race and you said me your not talking in the chat because they were being toxic

METAL SONIC IS LIT AND YOU KNOW IT

My problem with my criticism is that we simply cannot have him be relaxant constantly. If Metal Sonic was to ever win, then the Sonic series is over. Sonic will die, thats literally the purpose of any opposition he faces. To kill him as he's an obstacle to their goal. Like Ian said, Metal Sonic will always be a threat. But it seems like you guys want him to be the main threat again. The problem with that is that it takes away any possibility of a new threat. Ever since Sonic Adventure, we've had something new for the main antagonist for the games. Whether it's Eggman harnessing a new power, or a completely different villain altogether. If metal Sonic isn't a jobber, then we would never have a chance to see a new threat. I think a better solution would be to reduce his appearances to times where they actually matter. Tha way he doesn't seem to lose value.

For me is more about its been use way to many times and because of it we haven't seen a new metal or mecha sonic beem made. In the old days we would see a new robot sonic to fight in the games that we would face off, even in the SA game we had a new mecha that sadly was never implemented for us to fight. Now today is always metal as the one and only to face over and over again and Eggman in the games has refuse to build another robot to face sonic even though he use to improve them. Tbh i find metal not a real threat but a annoying boring copy to fight.

Dang

So what I’m getting from this is metal sonic is weaker than sonic, however he can usually go toe to toe with him.this results in metal sonic being stronger than a majority of the characters in the franchise

Since when are the critics not over blowing things?